Fans from London are not very good as a rule.
No it wasn't a mistake, not much to add to what other posters have already said. We might be tenth but I'm happy with Arteta and what he's trying to do. The narrative has definitely changed though, when Wenger was still here it was that any half decent manager could do better than him and get us challenging for the league.
The Arsenal demise began with Wenger, if anything the mistake was keeping him too long.
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
comment by Loki (U18355)
posted 3 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 16 minutes ago
Wenger was chased out of town by angry fans with pitch forks. He deserved more time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have chased him out with guns
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A whole arsenal
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 3 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Radical (U8691)
posted 3 minutes ago
No, he wasn't doing a miracle keeping us in the top 4, we were around the 4th biggest spenders overall. His last 3 seasons were awful, yes I include the Lesta season in that. He stayed at least 4 years too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok but no ones done a better job at arsenal than he has. Emery did worse and arteta has done worse so far.
Maybe Wenger wasn’t the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously dont understand what it takes to turn around a club in decline, and breaking away from a 25 year management by the same man.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 36 minutes ago
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexis was a good transfer for you guys, no?
comment by Hulk - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 36 minutes ago
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexis was a good transfer for you guys, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great transfer. However we should have sold him when his head was turned. That cost us £60m which we could have invested. Alexis's departure also forced us to offer Ozil a contract we could not afford. Both decisions needed a calm head a little further away from the dressing room. But Arsene was adament he could do both the manager's job as well as the director of football. I think thats where Arsene came a cropper. I feel Wenger undervalued David Dein's role in his success.
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
You make it sound as if Arsenal are on an upward trajectory since Wenger left. They've just gotten worse. So how is it that they're supposedly sorting out Wenger's mess. They've just added to the mess if anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit like fans who proclaim certain managers as being still the best around when in reality the've been in decline for years.
I wouldn't say Klopp has been in decline for years. Just one year at this point.
Emery and Arteta have been poor appointments but that doesn't make letting Wenger go the issue. His time was more than up
This current team/squad is better than in Wenger's last year. Wenger wasn't capable of rebuilding a new side, something Fergie was so good at.
The league is more competitive now, 80% of the league can buy £20m+ players and the Premier League is such a big draw that even mid-to-lower table sides attract young international talents.
We were getting absolutely spanked by our rivals. So many of our performances were simply unacceptable. Wenger had more time than any other manager would have, he should have left in 2015.
comment by Robbing Cromwell - agent of the hierarchy. (U6374)
posted 9 hours, 17 minutes ago
Fans from London are not very good as a rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Que?!
Put it this way. I really like Arteta and think he's a good coach and has transformed us tremendously over last year.
But we're 10th. Wenger kept us at least 4th for 21 years.
21 years say it out loud. Over half of most of our lives. From the mid nineties when spice girls were too of the charts to 2016!! Saka and smith Rowe wernt even born when he first came in his first season and won the double almost instantly. He then kept us top four whilst these lads were being born and grew into senior players
Its beyond an remarkable, the fact united didn't get anywhere near that consistency despite spending more than everyone and having the best manager of all time says it all
He massively over achieved and people need to swallow their ego and realise the complaining and abuse was wrong all along. He should have had one more season to see his contract out and then transition to Arteta. What the fack was the point of panic hiring Emery due to stupid fans booing and abusing him at train stations and bringing embarrassing banners
The only mistake that was made regarding Wenger was not getting rid of him sooner. For me, after we bottled the 2007/2008 run-in and went from first in the league and 5 points clear with a handful of easy games left to finishing third place amidst a run of 1 win in 7, he should have been sacked. A truly ambitious club would not have accepted such a horrible loss of form.
People will look at the stats and say we did well to finish 3rd, but the reality is we should have walked the league that season.
The same thing happened in 2015 when Leicester won the league. Top in January, but come the end of the season we were 3rd place and fighting to stay in touch with Tottenham who were 2nd with a few games to go.
Wenger's final 10 years at the club proved many things about him. The most damning one was that he simply didn't have what it takes to win when the pressure is on.
The pathetic League Cup final defeat in 2011 is another sorry example. Add to that the capitulation in two semi-finals against United and Chelsea in the CL and FA Cup respectively.
We had the talent to win a bucket load of silverware during our so-called banter period, but the elite mentality needed to do so (which SAF, Jose and later on Pep all had in abundance) was sorely lacking from Wenger. His opponents respected him more in his latter years for what he had done in his first 10 years than in his final 10.
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
Put it this way. I really like Arteta and think he's a good coach and has transformed us tremendously over last year.
But we're 10th. Wenger kept us at least 4th for 21 years.
21 years say it out loud. Over half of most of our lives. From the mid nineties when spice girls were too of the charts to 2016!! Saka and smith Rowe wernt even born when he first came in his first season and won the double almost instantly. He then kept us top four whilst these lads were being born and grew into senior players
Its beyond an remarkable, the fact united didn't get anywhere near that consistency despite spending more than everyone and having the best manager of all time says it all
He massively over achieved and people need to swallow their ego and realise the complaining and abuse was wrong all along. He should have had one more season to see his contract out and then transition to Arteta. What the fack was the point of panic hiring Emery due to stupid fans booing and abusing him at train stations and bringing embarrassing banners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right, Fergie couldn’t match him, just 21 years of at least 3rd was all he could muster
I always find it funny that Arsenal fans criticise Wenger for not winning the league in 2016 (the Lester year). In a year where everyone furrrked up (City in 4th, United 5th, Liverpool 8th, Chelsea 10th), Wenger furrrked up the least and finished 2nd yet he got the most criticism out of any of those teams for not winning the league.
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
I always find it funny that Arsenal fans criticise Wenger for not winning the league in 2016 (the Lester year). In a year where everyone furrrked up (City in 4th, United 5th, Liverpool 8th, Chelsea 10th), Wenger furrrked up the least and finished 2nd yet he got the most criticism out of any of those teams for not winning the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's really simple. They were all in transition due to new managers/squad rebuilds. Arsenal were not. No excuses.
It's really clear to me our horrendous form earlier in the season was because the squad had fack all creativity. Auba was next to useless because there was nobody creating chances. It's why I wanted ozil to come back in, despite the catch 22 of it ruining arteta's credibility like it did with emery.
It's no surprise we've looked much, much better since Christmas when ESR (and odegaard in Jan) have come in. Only game we've deserved to lose since then was City I think.
Actually Wahl, Chelsea weren't in transition that year. I think mourinho was just having one of his meltdown seasons.
comment by Kaiser Havertz (U5245)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? He, along with the owners, allowed this culture of mediocrity to spread throughout all levels of the club for decades, he played a huge part in allowing below-par players to remain at the club for too long on lucrative wages. Up until the January 2021 transfer window, we had 14 players on the books from his era; most of whom we struggled to shift because of their astronomical wages. Yet he left 3 years ago.
He, and everyone working under his regime, have lots of things to answer for in regards to our current plight.
As I've stated - it's not ALL his fault, and the current hierarchy have made mistakes aplenty, but the position they picked us up from was a very low point.
Trying to transform the attitudes and cultures at a club where many were coasting for too long isn't a quick fix.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Kaiser Havertz (U5245)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? He, along with the owners, allowed this culture of mediocrity to spread throughout all levels of the club for decades, he played a huge part in allowing below-par players to remain at the club for too long on lucrative wages. Up until the January 2021 transfer window, we had 14 players on the books from his era; most of whom we struggled to shift because of their astronomical wages. Yet he left 3 years ago.
He, and everyone working under his regime, have lots of things to answer for in regards to our current plight.
As I've stated - it's not ALL his fault, and the current hierarchy have made mistakes aplenty, but the position they picked us up from was a very low point.
Trying to transform the attitudes and cultures at a club where many were coasting for too long isn't a quick fix.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top class comment.
However there is a difference between club culture and managerial culture. What we mustn't do and I've seen done by quite a few is lower expectations. Arsenal don't have mediocre players and we don't pay mediocre wages. So to constantly downplay our mediocrity in league table is a mistake. I disliked what Edu said regarding "taking 3 years to challenge". That should be inexcusable and I think it is terrible that some of our fanbase to use it as a crutch.
3 years is reasonable, assuming this year is the first. Challenging next year isn't realistic. We do have a lot of mediocre players and a poor mentality in the squad but we've improved on both fronts under Arteta. I'm actually happy Edu said that because he realises we need a rebuild and culture change instead of quick fixes. Making progress and Arteta implementing his style is more important than where we finish this season, we've lost/drawn a lot of games we should've put to bed and would have with a bit more quality in the team.
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Was forcing Wenger out a mistake?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 17/3/21
Fans from London are not very good as a rule.
posted on 17/3/21
No it wasn't a mistake, not much to add to what other posters have already said. We might be tenth but I'm happy with Arteta and what he's trying to do. The narrative has definitely changed though, when Wenger was still here it was that any half decent manager could do better than him and get us challenging for the league.
posted on 17/3/21
The Arsenal demise began with Wenger, if anything the mistake was keeping him too long.
posted on 17/3/21
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
posted on 17/3/21
You were warned
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Loki (U18355)
posted 3 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 16 minutes ago
Wenger was chased out of town by angry fans with pitch forks. He deserved more time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have chased him out with guns
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A whole arsenal
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 3 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Radical (U8691)
posted 3 minutes ago
No, he wasn't doing a miracle keeping us in the top 4, we were around the 4th biggest spenders overall. His last 3 seasons were awful, yes I include the Lesta season in that. He stayed at least 4 years too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok but no ones done a better job at arsenal than he has. Emery did worse and arteta has done worse so far.
Maybe Wenger wasn’t the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously dont understand what it takes to turn around a club in decline, and breaking away from a 25 year management by the same man.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 36 minutes ago
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexis was a good transfer for you guys, no?
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Hulk - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 36 minutes ago
I don't think Wenger was ever criticised for his style of playing or coaching. He was however for his buying. The whole fiasco with Alexis and Ozil followed by poor spending on Mustafi, Xhaka and Kolsanic. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Fans look at the game based on whether we are challenging for trophies. Owners however look at it on the basis of what poor decisions are costing us. Unfortunately for Wenger both started to fail at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexis was a good transfer for you guys, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great transfer. However we should have sold him when his head was turned. That cost us £60m which we could have invested. Alexis's departure also forced us to offer Ozil a contract we could not afford. Both decisions needed a calm head a little further away from the dressing room. But Arsene was adament he could do both the manager's job as well as the director of football. I think thats where Arsene came a cropper. I feel Wenger undervalued David Dein's role in his success.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
You make it sound as if Arsenal are on an upward trajectory since Wenger left. They've just gotten worse. So how is it that they're supposedly sorting out Wenger's mess. They've just added to the mess if anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit like fans who proclaim certain managers as being still the best around when in reality the've been in decline for years.
posted on 17/3/21
I wouldn't say Klopp has been in decline for years. Just one year at this point.
posted on 17/3/21
Emery and Arteta have been poor appointments but that doesn't make letting Wenger go the issue. His time was more than up
posted on 17/3/21
This current team/squad is better than in Wenger's last year. Wenger wasn't capable of rebuilding a new side, something Fergie was so good at.
The league is more competitive now, 80% of the league can buy £20m+ players and the Premier League is such a big draw that even mid-to-lower table sides attract young international talents.
We were getting absolutely spanked by our rivals. So many of our performances were simply unacceptable. Wenger had more time than any other manager would have, he should have left in 2015.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Robbing Cromwell - agent of the hierarchy. (U6374)
posted 9 hours, 17 minutes ago
Fans from London are not very good as a rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Que?!
posted on 17/3/21
Put it this way. I really like Arteta and think he's a good coach and has transformed us tremendously over last year.
But we're 10th. Wenger kept us at least 4th for 21 years.
21 years say it out loud. Over half of most of our lives. From the mid nineties when spice girls were too of the charts to 2016!! Saka and smith Rowe wernt even born when he first came in his first season and won the double almost instantly. He then kept us top four whilst these lads were being born and grew into senior players
Its beyond an remarkable, the fact united didn't get anywhere near that consistency despite spending more than everyone and having the best manager of all time says it all
He massively over achieved and people need to swallow their ego and realise the complaining and abuse was wrong all along. He should have had one more season to see his contract out and then transition to Arteta. What the fack was the point of panic hiring Emery due to stupid fans booing and abusing him at train stations and bringing embarrassing banners
posted on 17/3/21
The only mistake that was made regarding Wenger was not getting rid of him sooner. For me, after we bottled the 2007/2008 run-in and went from first in the league and 5 points clear with a handful of easy games left to finishing third place amidst a run of 1 win in 7, he should have been sacked. A truly ambitious club would not have accepted such a horrible loss of form.
People will look at the stats and say we did well to finish 3rd, but the reality is we should have walked the league that season.
The same thing happened in 2015 when Leicester won the league. Top in January, but come the end of the season we were 3rd place and fighting to stay in touch with Tottenham who were 2nd with a few games to go.
Wenger's final 10 years at the club proved many things about him. The most damning one was that he simply didn't have what it takes to win when the pressure is on.
The pathetic League Cup final defeat in 2011 is another sorry example. Add to that the capitulation in two semi-finals against United and Chelsea in the CL and FA Cup respectively.
We had the talent to win a bucket load of silverware during our so-called banter period, but the elite mentality needed to do so (which SAF, Jose and later on Pep all had in abundance) was sorely lacking from Wenger. His opponents respected him more in his latter years for what he had done in his first 10 years than in his final 10.
posted on 18/3/21
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
Put it this way. I really like Arteta and think he's a good coach and has transformed us tremendously over last year.
But we're 10th. Wenger kept us at least 4th for 21 years.
21 years say it out loud. Over half of most of our lives. From the mid nineties when spice girls were too of the charts to 2016!! Saka and smith Rowe wernt even born when he first came in his first season and won the double almost instantly. He then kept us top four whilst these lads were being born and grew into senior players
Its beyond an remarkable, the fact united didn't get anywhere near that consistency despite spending more than everyone and having the best manager of all time says it all
He massively over achieved and people need to swallow their ego and realise the complaining and abuse was wrong all along. He should have had one more season to see his contract out and then transition to Arteta. What the fack was the point of panic hiring Emery due to stupid fans booing and abusing him at train stations and bringing embarrassing banners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right, Fergie couldn’t match him, just 21 years of at least 3rd was all he could muster
posted on 18/3/21
I always find it funny that Arsenal fans criticise Wenger for not winning the league in 2016 (the Lester year). In a year where everyone furrrked up (City in 4th, United 5th, Liverpool 8th, Chelsea 10th), Wenger furrrked up the least and finished 2nd yet he got the most criticism out of any of those teams for not winning the league.
posted on 18/3/21
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
posted on 18/3/21
comment by Wahl<:> (U22596)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
I always find it funny that Arsenal fans criticise Wenger for not winning the league in 2016 (the Lester year). In a year where everyone furrrked up (City in 4th, United 5th, Liverpool 8th, Chelsea 10th), Wenger furrrked up the least and finished 2nd yet he got the most criticism out of any of those teams for not winning the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's really simple. They were all in transition due to new managers/squad rebuilds. Arsenal were not. No excuses.
posted on 18/3/21
It's really clear to me our horrendous form earlier in the season was because the squad had fack all creativity. Auba was next to useless because there was nobody creating chances. It's why I wanted ozil to come back in, despite the catch 22 of it ruining arteta's credibility like it did with emery.
It's no surprise we've looked much, much better since Christmas when ESR (and odegaard in Jan) have come in. Only game we've deserved to lose since then was City I think.
posted on 18/3/21
Actually Wahl, Chelsea weren't in transition that year. I think mourinho was just having one of his meltdown seasons.
posted on 18/3/21
comment by Kaiser Havertz (U5245)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? He, along with the owners, allowed this culture of mediocrity to spread throughout all levels of the club for decades, he played a huge part in allowing below-par players to remain at the club for too long on lucrative wages. Up until the January 2021 transfer window, we had 14 players on the books from his era; most of whom we struggled to shift because of their astronomical wages. Yet he left 3 years ago.
He, and everyone working under his regime, have lots of things to answer for in regards to our current plight.
As I've stated - it's not ALL his fault, and the current hierarchy have made mistakes aplenty, but the position they picked us up from was a very low point.
Trying to transform the attitudes and cultures at a club where many were coasting for too long isn't a quick fix.
posted on 18/3/21
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Kaiser Havertz (U5245)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I think Wenger was done but I don’t really like the way some Arsenal fans pin their current issues on him. Their squad is better than 10th.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? He, along with the owners, allowed this culture of mediocrity to spread throughout all levels of the club for decades, he played a huge part in allowing below-par players to remain at the club for too long on lucrative wages. Up until the January 2021 transfer window, we had 14 players on the books from his era; most of whom we struggled to shift because of their astronomical wages. Yet he left 3 years ago.
He, and everyone working under his regime, have lots of things to answer for in regards to our current plight.
As I've stated - it's not ALL his fault, and the current hierarchy have made mistakes aplenty, but the position they picked us up from was a very low point.
Trying to transform the attitudes and cultures at a club where many were coasting for too long isn't a quick fix.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top class comment.
However there is a difference between club culture and managerial culture. What we mustn't do and I've seen done by quite a few is lower expectations. Arsenal don't have mediocre players and we don't pay mediocre wages. So to constantly downplay our mediocrity in league table is a mistake. I disliked what Edu said regarding "taking 3 years to challenge". That should be inexcusable and I think it is terrible that some of our fanbase to use it as a crutch.
posted on 18/3/21
3 years is reasonable, assuming this year is the first. Challenging next year isn't realistic. We do have a lot of mediocre players and a poor mentality in the squad but we've improved on both fronts under Arteta. I'm actually happy Edu said that because he realises we need a rebuild and culture change instead of quick fixes. Making progress and Arteta implementing his style is more important than where we finish this season, we've lost/drawn a lot of games we should've put to bed and would have with a bit more quality in the team.
Page 2 of 2