Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
comment by #PhenagelsmannIN (U20037)
posted 16 seconds ago
Luka you see this
#thfc defender Eric Dier: "I would have my ashes scattered in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium." [Evening Standard]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL no thanks. WTF!? Hopefully the person who has the urn fubbles them and a gust of wind blows them into the stands where they truly belong
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not, but the scenes only exists due to that theory
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Z z z
Before the alts completely take over and derail the thread. I do want to highlight that Dele was playing decent in the final season before Jose came in (when fit), it’s not his fault that people struggle to understand what they are watching.
That is such a weird way for him to tackle the KDB situation. It would be like him attacking Danny Rose this season for not making enough tackles.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
Now I know it's very easy in hindsight to sit here and say that he cast aside the best midfielder in the world but that's a lazy attempt at exposing Jose. It's been said before so it's pointless repeating it. He wasn't the player he is now back then.
------------------------------------------------------
That's being quite generous to Mourinho. Salah was the one that surprised people, but everyone involved with Chelsea knew De Bryune was a special talent except him. This was back when he could play pretty much anywhere in midfield & was being compared to a hybrid of Scholes & Beckham.
Mourinho simply had a mare there. Nothing to be ashamed of on it's own, all the greats have at least one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not normally one to defend Jose but whilst it makes great headlines to say he missed the talents of KDB, Salah and Lukaku it can happen in football. At 20 Harry Kane was nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. A lot of former pros that were around during his development have said how shocked they were at just how far he's come. Some players just don't show that immediate talent.
That said, I've heard quotes from former Chelsea players that said when Salah was there, he was running rings around players in training. They could see he was a star but it wasn't translating on the pitch during that time.
To argue the opposite viewpoint would be to say these players were all brilliantly talented even then, but Jose made them feel like crap so their performances didn't reflect their talents.
------------------------------------------------------
The others around that time, Mata was the 4th, had some form of logic that could've been argued for except KDB though. He was our best player in pre-season, if I remember correctly was MOTM in our opening game vs. Hull, he literally had one bad game & was put to the back of the queue. If it was any other manager at any other time I think we'd have overruled Mourinho & refused to sell, de Visser (chief advisor & talent scout) loved him & he's had Roman's ear since the beginning.
That's the distinction between Salah & De Bryune. With Salah nobody was patient enough, Mourinho happily let him leave but the club & fans weren't too bothered, was a calculative mistake. De Bryune was Mourinho's decision that the club backed & the fans knew would bite him & us in the backside one day.
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
Now I know it's very easy in hindsight to sit here and say that he cast aside the best midfielder in the world but that's a lazy attempt at exposing Jose. It's been said before so it's pointless repeating it. He wasn't the player he is now back then.
------------------------------------------------------
That's being quite generous to Mourinho. Salah was the one that surprised people, but everyone involved with Chelsea knew De Bryune was a special talent except him. This was back when he could play pretty much anywhere in midfield & was being compared to a hybrid of Scholes & Beckham.
Mourinho simply had a mare there. Nothing to be ashamed of on it's own, all the greats have at least one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not normally one to defend Jose but whilst it makes great headlines to say he missed the talents of KDB, Salah and Lukaku it can happen in football. At 20 Harry Kane was nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. A lot of former pros that were around during his development have said how shocked they were at just how far he's come. Some players just don't show that immediate talent.
That said, I've heard quotes from former Chelsea players that said when Salah was there, he was running rings around players in training. They could see he was a star but it wasn't translating on the pitch during that time.
To argue the opposite viewpoint would be to say these players were all brilliantly talented even then, but Jose made them feel like crap so their performances didn't reflect their talents.
------------------------------------------------------
The others around that time, Mata was the 4th, had some form of logic that could've been argued for except KDB though. He was our best player in pre-season, if I remember correctly was MOTM in our opening game vs. Hull, he literally had one bad game & was put to the back of the queue. If it was any other manager at any other time I think we'd have overruled Mourinho & refused to sell, de Visser (chief advisor & talent scout) loved him & he's had Roman's ear since the beginning.
That's the distinction between Salah & De Bryune. With Salah nobody was patient enough, Mourinho happily let him leave but the club & fans weren't too bothered, was a calculative mistake. De Bryune was Mourinho's decision that the club backed & the fans knew would bite him & us in the backside one day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a habit of not giving second chances. He's never played the game at a high, competitive level. I don't think he truly understands the nature of form. It can dip in and out. Bale had around 8 goals in 6 games for us prior to the Arsenal game and okay, fine, he didn't track back to help out Doherty has much as he could have but he's not been in the side since. It's just a crazy, senseless way of managing. It's no surprise that results are poor, he keeps bombing players out and replacing them with players that haven't played for a while. then he loses faith with them and brings the other back again. He's constantly teaching a lesson of sorts and that's had a major impact on results, team cohesion and consistency of performance.
everyone acting like we have won trophy after trophy every season
we are a southern everton
De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Luiz, Romeu, Filipe Luis are the players rejected by Mourinho who came good afterwards: each of them won a trophy or reached the ECL Semis and better , with their new teams.
One mistake is forgivable but on the basis of this evidence OP is spot on.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by #PhenagelsmannIN (U20037)
posted 30 minutes ago
Luka you see this
#thfc defender Eric Dier: "I would have my ashes scattered in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium." [Evening Standard]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It can be arranged Eric
A London, better stadium in place already, more global reach, financially strong/wise, European football regulars version of Everton I agree.
Actually were at a similar level and levy propelled us above them as a bigger and better club. The similarity being last big trophy won were in mid and early 90s.
Both still big and great clubs despite lack of trophies which contrary to popular belief isn't the be all and end all.
We have a history of them and will win them again.
And yes I have ranted over a lazy THudd comment.
He has a habit of not giving second chances. He's never played the game at a high, competitive level. I don't think he truly understands the nature of form. It can dip in and out. Bale had around 8 goals in 6 games for us prior to the Arsenal game and okay, fine, he didn't track back to help out Doherty has much as he could have but he's not been in the side since. It's just a crazy, senseless way of managing. It's no surprise that results are poor, he keeps bombing players out and replacing them with players that haven't played for a while. then he loses faith with them and brings the other back again. He's constantly teaching a lesson of sorts and that's had a major impact on results, team cohesion and consistency of performance.
--------------------------------------------------
Hadn't considered him not being an ex player at a high level being behind that, but yeah that makes sense.
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 30 minutes ago
De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Luiz, Romeu, Filipe Luis are the players rejected by Mourinho who came good afterwards: each of them won a trophy or reached the ECL Semis and better , with their new teams.
One mistake is forgivable but on the basis of this evidence OP is spot on.
----------------------------------------------------
Forgot about Felipe Luis
Possibly our best natural LB since A. Cole, and I'm including Chilwell in that.
Yes. I’m sure a manager who has won 26 trophies hasn’t got a clue when it comes to man management
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 54 seconds ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
------------------------------------------------------------------
That's where the argument can be made for deals like the Costa for Lukaku trade off, but De Bryune was different gravy.
I promise you this isn't a hindsight prospective. I personally didn't see the big deal at the time, mainly cos I trusted Mourinho 100%, but I was the minority. Chelsea fans knew he'd facked up.
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 1 minute ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strange logic. Chelsea winning the league wasn't down to them selling KdB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get that but Jose is being criticised for moving on KDB. In fact maybe he did him a favour as he went on to play more regularly and become the player he is. And the following season Chelsea won the title... Jose's strategy was proved right. Just another way of looking at it.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 1 minute ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strange logic. Chelsea winning the league wasn't down to them selling KdB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get that but Jose is being criticised for moving on KDB. In fact maybe he did him a favour as he went on to play more regularly and become the player he is. And the following season Chelsea won the title... Jose's strategy was proved right. Just another way of looking at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jose winning the league despite selling DB is not relevant to the discussion. it worked for DB, that true.
Nevertheless that Jose failed to recognise his talent is what we are discussing. Besides it was not Jose's job to help the career of a player that he wanted be rid of.
Sure he won the league the next season but he still had a brilliant squad to call upon. Also around that time United were terrible, City were in a pre-Pep level of inconsistency and Liverpool were just starting out under Klopp. The fact we finished 2nd on 86 points suggests it was one of those years where you don't have to be a world beater to win the league. Much like the year before for Leicester.
I think the issue is more about throwing out upcoming world class talent in favour of tried and tested players hitting 30. If you want to build for the future, Jose is most definitely not your man.
Year after for Leicester, sorry.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 21 seconds ago
Sure he won the league the next season but he still had a brilliant squad to call upon. Also around that time United were terrible, City were in a pre-Pep level of inconsistency and Liverpool were just starting out under Klopp. The fact we finished 2nd on 86 points suggests it was one of those years where you don't have to be a world beater to win the league. Much like the year before for Leicester.
I think the issue is more about throwing out upcoming world class talent in favour of tried and tested players hitting 30. If you want to build for the future, Jose is most definitely not your man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which to me made his appointment even stranger....although I do actually think that Jose saw and wanted/wants the Spurs job to be a long term project. Maybe that is what he sold to Levy but Jose and long terms simply do not work for all the reasons listed above in terms of his abrasive management style.
--------------------------------------------------
I can see why Mourinho wanted the Spurs job. London was massive for him & he liked a lot of the players there, tried to sign Dier/Toby/Kane, etc... at different times at United.
For awhile I could figure out why Levy wanted him, but as we've seen since Mourinho was always "the one" for Levy for whatever reason
Sign in if you want to comment
The outdated man-management of Jose
Page 2 of 3
posted on 7/4/21
Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
posted on 7/4/21
comment by #PhenagelsmannIN (U20037)
posted 16 seconds ago
Luka you see this
#thfc defender Eric Dier: "I would have my ashes scattered in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium." [Evening Standard]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL no thanks. WTF!? Hopefully the person who has the urn fubbles them and a gust of wind blows them into the stands where they truly belong
posted on 7/4/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not, but the scenes only exists due to that theory
posted on 7/4/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
Do you really think Sandy, LukaBrasi and Ebeneezer are the same person?
I can't see it myself. If that were true it would both exhausting and tragic in equal measure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Z z z
posted on 7/4/21
Before the alts completely take over and derail the thread. I do want to highlight that Dele was playing decent in the final season before Jose came in (when fit), it’s not his fault that people struggle to understand what they are watching.
That is such a weird way for him to tackle the KDB situation. It would be like him attacking Danny Rose this season for not making enough tackles.
posted on 7/4/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
Now I know it's very easy in hindsight to sit here and say that he cast aside the best midfielder in the world but that's a lazy attempt at exposing Jose. It's been said before so it's pointless repeating it. He wasn't the player he is now back then.
------------------------------------------------------
That's being quite generous to Mourinho. Salah was the one that surprised people, but everyone involved with Chelsea knew De Bryune was a special talent except him. This was back when he could play pretty much anywhere in midfield & was being compared to a hybrid of Scholes & Beckham.
Mourinho simply had a mare there. Nothing to be ashamed of on it's own, all the greats have at least one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not normally one to defend Jose but whilst it makes great headlines to say he missed the talents of KDB, Salah and Lukaku it can happen in football. At 20 Harry Kane was nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. A lot of former pros that were around during his development have said how shocked they were at just how far he's come. Some players just don't show that immediate talent.
That said, I've heard quotes from former Chelsea players that said when Salah was there, he was running rings around players in training. They could see he was a star but it wasn't translating on the pitch during that time.
To argue the opposite viewpoint would be to say these players were all brilliantly talented even then, but Jose made them feel like crap so their performances didn't reflect their talents.
------------------------------------------------------
The others around that time, Mata was the 4th, had some form of logic that could've been argued for except KDB though. He was our best player in pre-season, if I remember correctly was MOTM in our opening game vs. Hull, he literally had one bad game & was put to the back of the queue. If it was any other manager at any other time I think we'd have overruled Mourinho & refused to sell, de Visser (chief advisor & talent scout) loved him & he's had Roman's ear since the beginning.
That's the distinction between Salah & De Bryune. With Salah nobody was patient enough, Mourinho happily let him leave but the club & fans weren't too bothered, was a calculative mistake. De Bryune was Mourinho's decision that the club backed & the fans knew would bite him & us in the backside one day.
posted on 7/4/21
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 7 minutes ago
Now I know it's very easy in hindsight to sit here and say that he cast aside the best midfielder in the world but that's a lazy attempt at exposing Jose. It's been said before so it's pointless repeating it. He wasn't the player he is now back then.
------------------------------------------------------
That's being quite generous to Mourinho. Salah was the one that surprised people, but everyone involved with Chelsea knew De Bryune was a special talent except him. This was back when he could play pretty much anywhere in midfield & was being compared to a hybrid of Scholes & Beckham.
Mourinho simply had a mare there. Nothing to be ashamed of on it's own, all the greats have at least one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not normally one to defend Jose but whilst it makes great headlines to say he missed the talents of KDB, Salah and Lukaku it can happen in football. At 20 Harry Kane was nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. A lot of former pros that were around during his development have said how shocked they were at just how far he's come. Some players just don't show that immediate talent.
That said, I've heard quotes from former Chelsea players that said when Salah was there, he was running rings around players in training. They could see he was a star but it wasn't translating on the pitch during that time.
To argue the opposite viewpoint would be to say these players were all brilliantly talented even then, but Jose made them feel like crap so their performances didn't reflect their talents.
------------------------------------------------------
The others around that time, Mata was the 4th, had some form of logic that could've been argued for except KDB though. He was our best player in pre-season, if I remember correctly was MOTM in our opening game vs. Hull, he literally had one bad game & was put to the back of the queue. If it was any other manager at any other time I think we'd have overruled Mourinho & refused to sell, de Visser (chief advisor & talent scout) loved him & he's had Roman's ear since the beginning.
That's the distinction between Salah & De Bryune. With Salah nobody was patient enough, Mourinho happily let him leave but the club & fans weren't too bothered, was a calculative mistake. De Bryune was Mourinho's decision that the club backed & the fans knew would bite him & us in the backside one day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a habit of not giving second chances. He's never played the game at a high, competitive level. I don't think he truly understands the nature of form. It can dip in and out. Bale had around 8 goals in 6 games for us prior to the Arsenal game and okay, fine, he didn't track back to help out Doherty has much as he could have but he's not been in the side since. It's just a crazy, senseless way of managing. It's no surprise that results are poor, he keeps bombing players out and replacing them with players that haven't played for a while. then he loses faith with them and brings the other back again. He's constantly teaching a lesson of sorts and that's had a major impact on results, team cohesion and consistency of performance.
posted on 7/4/21
everyone acting like we have won trophy after trophy every season
we are a southern everton
posted on 7/4/21
De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Luiz, Romeu, Filipe Luis are the players rejected by Mourinho who came good afterwards: each of them won a trophy or reached the ECL Semis and better , with their new teams.
One mistake is forgivable but on the basis of this evidence OP is spot on.
posted on 7/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/4/21
comment by #PhenagelsmannIN (U20037)
posted 30 minutes ago
Luka you see this
#thfc defender Eric Dier: "I would have my ashes scattered in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium." [Evening Standard]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It can be arranged Eric
posted on 7/4/21
A London, better stadium in place already, more global reach, financially strong/wise, European football regulars version of Everton I agree.
Actually were at a similar level and levy propelled us above them as a bigger and better club. The similarity being last big trophy won were in mid and early 90s.
Both still big and great clubs despite lack of trophies which contrary to popular belief isn't the be all and end all.
We have a history of them and will win them again.
And yes I have ranted over a lazy THudd comment.
posted on 7/4/21
He has a habit of not giving second chances. He's never played the game at a high, competitive level. I don't think he truly understands the nature of form. It can dip in and out. Bale had around 8 goals in 6 games for us prior to the Arsenal game and okay, fine, he didn't track back to help out Doherty has much as he could have but he's not been in the side since. It's just a crazy, senseless way of managing. It's no surprise that results are poor, he keeps bombing players out and replacing them with players that haven't played for a while. then he loses faith with them and brings the other back again. He's constantly teaching a lesson of sorts and that's had a major impact on results, team cohesion and consistency of performance.
--------------------------------------------------
Hadn't considered him not being an ex player at a high level being behind that, but yeah that makes sense.
posted on 7/4/21
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 30 minutes ago
De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Luiz, Romeu, Filipe Luis are the players rejected by Mourinho who came good afterwards: each of them won a trophy or reached the ECL Semis and better , with their new teams.
One mistake is forgivable but on the basis of this evidence OP is spot on.
----------------------------------------------------
Forgot about Felipe Luis
Possibly our best natural LB since A. Cole, and I'm including Chilwell in that.
posted on 7/4/21
Yes. I’m sure a manager who has won 26 trophies hasn’t got a clue when it comes to man management
posted on 7/4/21
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
posted on 7/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/4/21
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 54 seconds ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
------------------------------------------------------------------
That's where the argument can be made for deals like the Costa for Lukaku trade off, but De Bryune was different gravy.
I promise you this isn't a hindsight prospective. I personally didn't see the big deal at the time, mainly cos I trusted Mourinho 100%, but I was the minority. Chelsea fans knew he'd facked up.
posted on 7/4/21
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 1 minute ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strange logic. Chelsea winning the league wasn't down to them selling KdB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get that but Jose is being criticised for moving on KDB. In fact maybe he did him a favour as he went on to play more regularly and become the player he is. And the following season Chelsea won the title... Jose's strategy was proved right. Just another way of looking at it.
posted on 7/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/4/21
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Islington Spur (U18857)
posted 1 minute ago
Chelsea literally won the league the following season. Does this not justify selling De Bruyne? Maybe Jose just didn't think KDB was right for his set up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strange logic. Chelsea winning the league wasn't down to them selling KdB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get that but Jose is being criticised for moving on KDB. In fact maybe he did him a favour as he went on to play more regularly and become the player he is. And the following season Chelsea won the title... Jose's strategy was proved right. Just another way of looking at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jose winning the league despite selling DB is not relevant to the discussion. it worked for DB, that true.
Nevertheless that Jose failed to recognise his talent is what we are discussing. Besides it was not Jose's job to help the career of a player that he wanted be rid of.
posted on 7/4/21
Sure he won the league the next season but he still had a brilliant squad to call upon. Also around that time United were terrible, City were in a pre-Pep level of inconsistency and Liverpool were just starting out under Klopp. The fact we finished 2nd on 86 points suggests it was one of those years where you don't have to be a world beater to win the league. Much like the year before for Leicester.
I think the issue is more about throwing out upcoming world class talent in favour of tried and tested players hitting 30. If you want to build for the future, Jose is most definitely not your man.
posted on 7/4/21
Year after for Leicester, sorry.
posted on 7/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/4/21
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 21 seconds ago
Sure he won the league the next season but he still had a brilliant squad to call upon. Also around that time United were terrible, City were in a pre-Pep level of inconsistency and Liverpool were just starting out under Klopp. The fact we finished 2nd on 86 points suggests it was one of those years where you don't have to be a world beater to win the league. Much like the year before for Leicester.
I think the issue is more about throwing out upcoming world class talent in favour of tried and tested players hitting 30. If you want to build for the future, Jose is most definitely not your man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which to me made his appointment even stranger....although I do actually think that Jose saw and wanted/wants the Spurs job to be a long term project. Maybe that is what he sold to Levy but Jose and long terms simply do not work for all the reasons listed above in terms of his abrasive management style.
--------------------------------------------------
I can see why Mourinho wanted the Spurs job. London was massive for him & he liked a lot of the players there, tried to sign Dier/Toby/Kane, etc... at different times at United.
For awhile I could figure out why Levy wanted him, but as we've seen since Mourinho was always "the one" for Levy for whatever reason
Page 2 of 3