The result might be less money and smaller contracts, but the spirit of fair play and competition will be maintained. There will still be big clubs and smaller clubs, strong clubs and weak clubs, but we all accept that. Part of the fan experience is being David against Goliath. We have an opportunity to save the sport – we should
———-
I’ve been looking forward to your comments Joby as they are normally balanced and capture the essence.
There has been much written abs said so I won’t go over old ground, but the last paragraph for me sums up the problem. The rich 6 have become greedy and believe they are entitled to more revenue because they generate more of it.
Now, I understand their point to some extent. A lot of the money IS generated by them. But here then lies the problem - because that’s the case do they have zero care or concern for the other 80+ clubs, and the millions of fans in Europe?
The answer was clearly no. Money and protecting their own interests was the number 1 concern for them. They have zero care for competition, grassroots football or the regional fans of these clubs. And for that reason, they have zero concern for football.
Now for solutions. There is only 1 genuine way to stop this, and one realistic way.
The first is the German model. Treat football clubs as a public service (which is what we’re saying they are) and regulate or bring in to fan ownership. We dream of this.
But it won’t happen. Too many rich people stinking tired the core will prevent that.
So we’re left with the following, which is to revamp the champions league in favour of the rich (and in some cases useless) 6, and accept that they have just exerted their power.
To be honest, I’m not sure I like the second option and trying to rebuild our game with Phoenix clubs and a system like the German model whilst letting this 6 go off and create franchise FC league where Chinese fans gather for the spectacle of pop concerts and half time entertainment whilst football exhibitions go on in between then fine.
German football is suddenly looking very appealing to many of our players I imagine, and many fans.
Very sad times to be a footballer supporter to see the way 6 owners have shown such blatant disregard for the common fan.
"The ESL is really the top of a slippery slope. What next? - The 39th game? games played in Asia or America? clubs being franchised and moving abroad? People will laugh and say this is impossible, but a few years ago you might have said that so was creating a league, for a select few, with no promotion or relegation."
This is exactly where its going.
Im actually embarrassed that my club is part of this.
Not even sure why we there. I can still see the entitlement of some of the other clubs. We just being used to stop moves against them in the PL.
Great write up mate, right now I want the 6 chucked out the league and wouldnt care if the money went out of the remaining leagues and we had a competitive game again.
What we can’t have is those 6 teams playing in this super league and the pl at the same time it’s an absolute nonsense they think they can do both with no competition
I’m not naive enough to think that if it was other owners (maybe even our own) were in the same position they wouldn’t have done the same most billionaires got there by being ruthless and chasing the dollar at every opportunity.
The German idea kind of works in that yeah fans have the final say but it didn’t stop Bayern hoovering up all the players and winning 9 in a row or what ever
It’s all a big mess!
comment by Troy'sTanguyTanganga (U6468)
posted 19 minutes ago
"The ESL is really the top of a slippery slope. What next? - The 39th game? games played in Asia or America? clubs being franchised and moving abroad? People will laugh and say this is impossible, but a few years ago you might have said that so was creating a league, for a select few, with no promotion or relegation."
This is exactly where its going.
Im actually embarrassed that my club is part of this.
Not even sure why we there. I can still see the entitlement of some of the other clubs. We just being used to stop moves against them in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel sorry for the fans of these clubs as well because your club have already said fu to every single one of you
comment by Hamilton Fox (U22508)
posted 16 minutes ago
Great write up mate, right now I want the 6 chucked out the league and wouldnt care if the money went out of the remaining leagues and we had a competitive game again.
What we can’t have is those 6 teams playing in this super league and the pl at the same time it’s an absolute nonsense they think they can do both with no competition
I’m not naive enough to think that if it was other owners (maybe even our own) were in the same position they wouldn’t have done the same most billionaires got there by being ruthless and chasing the dollar at every opportunity.
The German idea kind of works in that yeah fans have the final say but it didn’t stop Bayern hoovering up all the players and winning 9 in a row or what ever
It’s all a big mess!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will never throw their beloved Manchester united and Liverpool out. Never in a million years.
Haven't posted on here in yonks, but there's more sense and sound analysis in the OP than I've encountered anywhere on TV or in print.
So I just had to say Joby
We are to Blame, Little Old Leicester Won the League and Shocked them, money wasn’t buying the League anymore and if Leicester could do it so could others.
We knew they’d react, the expectation was that it would be through Football on the pitch and by taking who they wanted from our team rather than a plan designed by Americans to teach us how Sport works.
I wonder if the Winner of the new League will be crowned World Champions?
You also have to wonder if this would have happened If Spurs or Arsenal had beat us to that Title?
Well said Joby.
I really can't see any possibility that any of the prospective ESL teams will be able to compete (not exactly the right word is it? - not any real competition) in both the ESL or their own domestic league. There are going to be sanctions. Whether it's expulsion or a points deduction is doubtless the subject of ongoing debate within the EPL and the remaining 14. As I have mentioned on another related post a 20 point deduction would make life interesting.
The probable cause for this scenario is the vast expenses some of the big clubs are trying to cope with (with the possible exception of Spurs and Atletico Madrid) at a time when the pandemic resulted in empty stadia and significantly reduced income. Huge transfers, obscene wages, payments to agents and so on have doubtless had more of an impact than on 'smaller', more prudent teams. It has been said that Barcelona and Real Madrid are not a million miles off bankruptcy so to some extent you can see why they have opted for the ESL. Smacks of desperation. How they thought they could ever get away with it is beyond me though.
Thanks all for the kind words in response to this thread. It looks like it’s unravelling already by all accounts.
I hope, if it does collapse, that people stay angry and push for change. This is a wake up call
I think your last paragraph is the most poignant, noteworthy and provocative.
It would be interesting, from a debate perspective, to see this considered, dissected and questioned. Which, almost as a consequence of recent days, seems inevitable now.
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 2 hours, 37 minutes ago
Thanks all for the kind words in response to this thread. It looks like it’s unravelling already by all accounts.
I hope, if it does collapse, that people stay angry and push for change. This is a wake up call
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn’t over. We absolutely need to stay angry and den and reforms that stop this happening again. We need a new system that protects the fans from owners, both negligent ones who see clubs go bust, and disgusting greedy ones who give the impression they would watch fans suffer quite happily if it made them more money.
We need change. Not champions league changes to placate these owners. Genuine change to protect football.
I wonder whether the ultimate fallout from this will be the German ownership model. I don’t buy into the theory of some that this was all a ruse to usher through unpopular CL reforms when nobody was looking. You don’t damage yourself to the extent some of these owners have done just to achieve that. There are simpler ways. I genuinely believe this was as it looks: An attempted breakaway gone wrong, curtailed by a combination of player power and governmental threat, each influenced massively by unity and ferocity of condemnation.
I doubt the punishment for the return of the Big 6 will be that severe. Essentially, they’ve come back during the “we’re warning you...” phase, so they’ll likely get a damned severe finger-wagging and urged not to try to destroy football again for 18 months or so. The bigger punishment on the horizon is how seriously the government took it, and could easily start looking into the 50+1 ownership model popular and lauded in Germany. Even if that is only applied on the next transfer of club ownership, it would greatly devalue each business for such a future sale. In which case, no wonder there’s talk tonight of Americans looking to sell up and get out.
But tonight we simply celebrate the fact that the ESL has been killed. Tomorrow we start to work out how to prevent it ever coming back to life.
Destroy all the horcruxes.
I agree that it was an arrogant power grab plain and simple.
Americans who believe that because they can franchise and up and move teams in the ‘biggest country in the world’, it would be a simple thing to do in ‘lil ol Blighty’
I think the German model is hopefully an Endgame to come out of this terrible fiasco but in the immediate future, this anger need to be turned into determination which is constantly fuelled until we chase these snakes out our our country and game for good.
As Lineker put it ‘we have our ball back’. Let’s make sure no f***** tries to purposely kick it over the fence again.
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ESL - We are all complicit in it
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posted on 20/4/21
The result might be less money and smaller contracts, but the spirit of fair play and competition will be maintained. There will still be big clubs and smaller clubs, strong clubs and weak clubs, but we all accept that. Part of the fan experience is being David against Goliath. We have an opportunity to save the sport – we should
———-
I’ve been looking forward to your comments Joby as they are normally balanced and capture the essence.
There has been much written abs said so I won’t go over old ground, but the last paragraph for me sums up the problem. The rich 6 have become greedy and believe they are entitled to more revenue because they generate more of it.
Now, I understand their point to some extent. A lot of the money IS generated by them. But here then lies the problem - because that’s the case do they have zero care or concern for the other 80+ clubs, and the millions of fans in Europe?
The answer was clearly no. Money and protecting their own interests was the number 1 concern for them. They have zero care for competition, grassroots football or the regional fans of these clubs. And for that reason, they have zero concern for football.
Now for solutions. There is only 1 genuine way to stop this, and one realistic way.
The first is the German model. Treat football clubs as a public service (which is what we’re saying they are) and regulate or bring in to fan ownership. We dream of this.
But it won’t happen. Too many rich people stinking tired the core will prevent that.
So we’re left with the following, which is to revamp the champions league in favour of the rich (and in some cases useless) 6, and accept that they have just exerted their power.
To be honest, I’m not sure I like the second option and trying to rebuild our game with Phoenix clubs and a system like the German model whilst letting this 6 go off and create franchise FC league where Chinese fans gather for the spectacle of pop concerts and half time entertainment whilst football exhibitions go on in between then fine.
German football is suddenly looking very appealing to many of our players I imagine, and many fans.
Very sad times to be a footballer supporter to see the way 6 owners have shown such blatant disregard for the common fan.
posted on 20/4/21
"The ESL is really the top of a slippery slope. What next? - The 39th game? games played in Asia or America? clubs being franchised and moving abroad? People will laugh and say this is impossible, but a few years ago you might have said that so was creating a league, for a select few, with no promotion or relegation."
This is exactly where its going.
Im actually embarrassed that my club is part of this.
Not even sure why we there. I can still see the entitlement of some of the other clubs. We just being used to stop moves against them in the PL.
posted on 20/4/21
Great write up mate, right now I want the 6 chucked out the league and wouldnt care if the money went out of the remaining leagues and we had a competitive game again.
What we can’t have is those 6 teams playing in this super league and the pl at the same time it’s an absolute nonsense they think they can do both with no competition
I’m not naive enough to think that if it was other owners (maybe even our own) were in the same position they wouldn’t have done the same most billionaires got there by being ruthless and chasing the dollar at every opportunity.
The German idea kind of works in that yeah fans have the final say but it didn’t stop Bayern hoovering up all the players and winning 9 in a row or what ever
It’s all a big mess!
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Troy'sTanguyTanganga (U6468)
posted 19 minutes ago
"The ESL is really the top of a slippery slope. What next? - The 39th game? games played in Asia or America? clubs being franchised and moving abroad? People will laugh and say this is impossible, but a few years ago you might have said that so was creating a league, for a select few, with no promotion or relegation."
This is exactly where its going.
Im actually embarrassed that my club is part of this.
Not even sure why we there. I can still see the entitlement of some of the other clubs. We just being used to stop moves against them in the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel sorry for the fans of these clubs as well because your club have already said fu to every single one of you
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Hamilton Fox (U22508)
posted 16 minutes ago
Great write up mate, right now I want the 6 chucked out the league and wouldnt care if the money went out of the remaining leagues and we had a competitive game again.
What we can’t have is those 6 teams playing in this super league and the pl at the same time it’s an absolute nonsense they think they can do both with no competition
I’m not naive enough to think that if it was other owners (maybe even our own) were in the same position they wouldn’t have done the same most billionaires got there by being ruthless and chasing the dollar at every opportunity.
The German idea kind of works in that yeah fans have the final say but it didn’t stop Bayern hoovering up all the players and winning 9 in a row or what ever
It’s all a big mess!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will never throw their beloved Manchester united and Liverpool out. Never in a million years.
posted on 20/4/21
Haven't posted on here in yonks, but there's more sense and sound analysis in the OP than I've encountered anywhere on TV or in print.
So I just had to say Joby
posted on 20/4/21
We are to Blame, Little Old Leicester Won the League and Shocked them, money wasn’t buying the League anymore and if Leicester could do it so could others.
We knew they’d react, the expectation was that it would be through Football on the pitch and by taking who they wanted from our team rather than a plan designed by Americans to teach us how Sport works.
I wonder if the Winner of the new League will be crowned World Champions?
You also have to wonder if this would have happened If Spurs or Arsenal had beat us to that Title?
posted on 20/4/21
Well said Joby.
I really can't see any possibility that any of the prospective ESL teams will be able to compete (not exactly the right word is it? - not any real competition) in both the ESL or their own domestic league. There are going to be sanctions. Whether it's expulsion or a points deduction is doubtless the subject of ongoing debate within the EPL and the remaining 14. As I have mentioned on another related post a 20 point deduction would make life interesting.
The probable cause for this scenario is the vast expenses some of the big clubs are trying to cope with (with the possible exception of Spurs and Atletico Madrid) at a time when the pandemic resulted in empty stadia and significantly reduced income. Huge transfers, obscene wages, payments to agents and so on have doubtless had more of an impact than on 'smaller', more prudent teams. It has been said that Barcelona and Real Madrid are not a million miles off bankruptcy so to some extent you can see why they have opted for the ESL. Smacks of desperation. How they thought they could ever get away with it is beyond me though.
posted on 20/4/21
Thanks all for the kind words in response to this thread. It looks like it’s unravelling already by all accounts.
I hope, if it does collapse, that people stay angry and push for change. This is a wake up call
posted on 20/4/21
I think your last paragraph is the most poignant, noteworthy and provocative.
It would be interesting, from a debate perspective, to see this considered, dissected and questioned. Which, almost as a consequence of recent days, seems inevitable now.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 2 hours, 37 minutes ago
Thanks all for the kind words in response to this thread. It looks like it’s unravelling already by all accounts.
I hope, if it does collapse, that people stay angry and push for change. This is a wake up call
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn’t over. We absolutely need to stay angry and den and reforms that stop this happening again. We need a new system that protects the fans from owners, both negligent ones who see clubs go bust, and disgusting greedy ones who give the impression they would watch fans suffer quite happily if it made them more money.
We need change. Not champions league changes to placate these owners. Genuine change to protect football.
posted on 21/4/21
I wonder whether the ultimate fallout from this will be the German ownership model. I don’t buy into the theory of some that this was all a ruse to usher through unpopular CL reforms when nobody was looking. You don’t damage yourself to the extent some of these owners have done just to achieve that. There are simpler ways. I genuinely believe this was as it looks: An attempted breakaway gone wrong, curtailed by a combination of player power and governmental threat, each influenced massively by unity and ferocity of condemnation.
I doubt the punishment for the return of the Big 6 will be that severe. Essentially, they’ve come back during the “we’re warning you...” phase, so they’ll likely get a damned severe finger-wagging and urged not to try to destroy football again for 18 months or so. The bigger punishment on the horizon is how seriously the government took it, and could easily start looking into the 50+1 ownership model popular and lauded in Germany. Even if that is only applied on the next transfer of club ownership, it would greatly devalue each business for such a future sale. In which case, no wonder there’s talk tonight of Americans looking to sell up and get out.
But tonight we simply celebrate the fact that the ESL has been killed. Tomorrow we start to work out how to prevent it ever coming back to life.
posted on 21/4/21
Destroy all the horcruxes.
I agree that it was an arrogant power grab plain and simple.
Americans who believe that because they can franchise and up and move teams in the ‘biggest country in the world’, it would be a simple thing to do in ‘lil ol Blighty’
I think the German model is hopefully an Endgame to come out of this terrible fiasco but in the immediate future, this anger need to be turned into determination which is constantly fuelled until we chase these snakes out our our country and game for good.
As Lineker put it ‘we have our ball back’. Let’s make sure no f***** tries to purposely kick it over the fence again.
Page 1 of 1