Nah was more to the OP’s fragile arguments.
The English arrogance about this is remarkable
We deserve four CL places because of the history of our clubs
How dare these clubs claim their history means they deserve better
This is going to devalue our competitions
Excuse me United can you go to Brazil and make us look good for the World Cup bid and forget about the FA cup ?
Endless hypocrisy
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
But just because there are issues with the current CL, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to go the whole hog and completely fack it up even more.
And as mentioned, it’s not even like the founding members of the ESL are all the cream of the crop, most of them want this because they are actually struggle to maintain their status at the top due to poor management.
The CL obviously has its magic in the glamour ties between the big, popular, clubs. But part of its magic is the smaller teams being able to upset the big boys and, or, make a run in the competition - even if they don’t actually win it. There’s been plenty of these over the years, and closing that to keep the big clubs in it is a farce.
Spurs are an interesting case in all of this. Most of their fans will tell you that the best feeling they had as fans was that game against Ajax (a team that turned over the reigning CL champions, Madrid, in the round before, I might add).
They’ll be in this now. But only because open competition allowed them to build themselves up as a club to get the opportunity to do so. Had this shop been closed in 2013, they’d never be in this position. They benefited from the failures of others, and it’s a credit to them that they have. But if we look at what Leicester are doing, whilst not having the same fanbase as Spurs, they’re in a position to do something similar, and establish themselves as a threat to the top and potentially in Europe. They won’t be able to do that with the ESL.
Just because the cards are stacked in favour of a select few, doesn’t mean everyone else should be denied a seat at the table. You’d have to be a complete cuuuunt to really agree with something like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me be very clear, I don’t agree with the proposed format at all, I’ve already said this in many other threads, whole concept of a closed shop competition is disgraceful.
I do like the idea of formation of ESL. Current CL format doesn’t serve any purpose, it doesn’t do anything to address the wealth gap in football, and best teams rarely play each other. This has to change. ESL seem to be the obvious next step, as long as it’s a qualification is merit based. So top six gets picked rather than the big six. Teams from smaller league should have a separate competition with the winner, or the top two gets picked for ESL
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 21 seconds ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The SL is literally created to get more revenue and opportunities to compete for the participating clubs, by taking away potential revenue and opportunities from the remaining clubs.
They make it sound that way, because it's actually the implied endgoal of the project (a franchise league model). Unless you think the other clubs, FIFA/UEFA and fans are just gonna sit back and don't do anything.
It's exactly like the Brexit-promises: we take back the steering wheel and we promise everything will be the exactly the same regarding all the benefits of being in the EU. As if action won't cause a reaction...
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
On point 1, if every game is a big game; then there are no big games. The reason people look forward to those fixtures is that they are prestigious and infrequent. If you make every game like that then they lose their effect and there no higher level to get excited about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are still big games even though we play every year, don't see how it would be any different. At the moment the top teams don't play each other that often, definitely would be better to see more fixtures between them and the best players competing against each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are big games because they only happen twice a season. That makes it important when they play and makes it a big game. If every game is a big game against a big club, then that becomes the norm and there are no more big games. The games are no longer' must seem as there is another next week. It would completely lose its effect and people would become apathetic to it.
In the new Super League proposals, the teams would all have a big fixture every week until they play Spurs. So following an initial buzz, apathy will ensue.
But it’s not merit based, how many times do you need to be told this?
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 20 minutes ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perception is a funny thing, still at least we're agreed it's not propaganda.
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 57 seconds ago
But it’s not merit based, how many times do you need to be told this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, ESL if or when it is formed should be merit based. How many time I have repeat this 🤬
Then why do you keep repeating it? It’s a completely irrelevant point to make about what it should be. People’s problems are with what it is.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 20 minutes ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perception is a funny thing, still at least we're agreed it's not propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is propaganda. There are many positives in even the currently proposed ESL. They don’t make a single attempt to address them.
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Then why do you keep repeating it? It’s a completely irrelevant point to make about what it should be. People’s problems are with what it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is wrong with pointing out all the dumb things said about ESL?
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
On point 1, if every game is a big game; then there are no big games. The reason people look forward to those fixtures is that they are prestigious and infrequent. If you make every game like that then they lose their effect and there no higher level to get excited about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are still big games even though we play every year, don't see how it would be any different. At the moment the top teams don't play each other that often, definitely would be better to see more fixtures between them and the best players competing against each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are big games because they only happen twice a season. That makes it important when they play and makes it a big game. If every game is a big game against a big club, then that becomes the norm and there are no more big games. The games are no longer' must seem as there is another next week. It would completely lose its effect and people would become apathetic to it.
In the new Super League proposals, the teams would all have a big fixture every week until they play Spurs. So following an initial buzz, apathy will ensue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I get that to some extent. I'd still prefer to see top teams and players playing each other regularly instead of playing a bunch of dead rubbers where they field second strings half the time, and then a decent knockout tournamet from March/April onwards.
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realize this is just the first draft? Setup can change if all stakeholders are willing to engage in a negotiations.
There are lots of potential in ESL. If FIFA , UEFA or PL actually wants what’s best for football, they should try to work with these clubs to form a competition that is fair for everyone. Instead they are fighting tooth and nail to kill this proposal because it threaten their self interests.
“What ESL should be” is the discussion that should be happening now IMO. It’s frustrating that no one wants to engage in it
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realize this is just the first draft? Setup can change if all stakeholders are willing to engage in a negotiations.
There are lots of potential in ESL. If FIFA , UEFA or PL actually wants what’s best for football, they should try to work with these clubs to form a competition that is fair for everyone. Instead they are fighting tooth and nail to kill this proposal because it threaten their self interests.
“What ESL should be” is the discussion that should be happening now IMO. It’s frustrating that no one wants to engage in it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it seems like even in your discussions of 'what should ESL be' you want to lock out certain nations, which is still a huge problem.
Like I said yesterday, you are deluded.
Chelsea out now.
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
Like I said yesterday, you are deluded.
Chelsea out now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
City too.
They probably got some assurances from EUFA. Roman is not the type of a guy to cave in for fan pressure. There has to be some more to it. We’ll see in coming days.
I don’t really care either way. All the drama was really entertaining though
You are a child, and an idiot if you think anything will fundamentally change after this
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 6 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
On point one, you look forward to playing them because there are always narratives past the one layer of “to qualify for the next round”. They are rivals and depending on the season u can be even on points or one side better than the other.
I for one, have been begging to get Real Madrid and was bored of constantly getting Barca, or Liverpool in the 00s.
Add the fact that there is no competition in this thing and no repercussions such as a knock out two legged tie. Then yes it will get boring. So it is not nonsense at all and people are allowed that opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The super league still would end with 2 leg QFs & SFs tbf, with a one off Final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But for what purpose? A final in a closed shop. Next year we go again, same teams. Its an American concept that has no place in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well 25% of the teams could be turned over. So not fully closed shop.
Most competitions have the same usual suspects trying to win it each year anyway.
But the closed shop element of it is partly why it’s more viable commercially.
I know a lot of people may not realise this but the UCL has been a commercial failure. Most games don’t attract much attention at all. Apart from serious football fans, no one cares about the UCL. That’s one thing Perez was right about in his statement, 16-24 yr olds aren’t watching UCL games.
The NBA with its ‘closed shop’ is miles bigger than the UCL despite basketball not being anywhere near as big a sport as soccer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also been disproven about 16-24 year olds and viewership, in fact a study in la liga proves the complete opposite. Why do you find yourself on the wrong side of every debate?
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
You are a child, and an idiot if you think anything will fundamentally change after this
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your the one who wants change. I’m happy the way things are kid
Sign in if you want to comment
Uninformed opinions
Page 5 of 5
posted on 20/4/21
Nah was more to the OP’s fragile arguments.
posted on 20/4/21
posted on 20/4/21
The English arrogance about this is remarkable
We deserve four CL places because of the history of our clubs
How dare these clubs claim their history means they deserve better
This is going to devalue our competitions
Excuse me United can you go to Brazil and make us look good for the World Cup bid and forget about the FA cup ?
Endless hypocrisy
posted on 20/4/21
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
posted on 20/4/21
To the OP
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
But just because there are issues with the current CL, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to go the whole hog and completely fack it up even more.
And as mentioned, it’s not even like the founding members of the ESL are all the cream of the crop, most of them want this because they are actually struggle to maintain their status at the top due to poor management.
The CL obviously has its magic in the glamour ties between the big, popular, clubs. But part of its magic is the smaller teams being able to upset the big boys and, or, make a run in the competition - even if they don’t actually win it. There’s been plenty of these over the years, and closing that to keep the big clubs in it is a farce.
Spurs are an interesting case in all of this. Most of their fans will tell you that the best feeling they had as fans was that game against Ajax (a team that turned over the reigning CL champions, Madrid, in the round before, I might add).
They’ll be in this now. But only because open competition allowed them to build themselves up as a club to get the opportunity to do so. Had this shop been closed in 2013, they’d never be in this position. They benefited from the failures of others, and it’s a credit to them that they have. But if we look at what Leicester are doing, whilst not having the same fanbase as Spurs, they’re in a position to do something similar, and establish themselves as a threat to the top and potentially in Europe. They won’t be able to do that with the ESL.
Just because the cards are stacked in favour of a select few, doesn’t mean everyone else should be denied a seat at the table. You’d have to be a complete cuuuunt to really agree with something like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me be very clear, I don’t agree with the proposed format at all, I’ve already said this in many other threads, whole concept of a closed shop competition is disgraceful.
I do like the idea of formation of ESL. Current CL format doesn’t serve any purpose, it doesn’t do anything to address the wealth gap in football, and best teams rarely play each other. This has to change. ESL seem to be the obvious next step, as long as it’s a qualification is merit based. So top six gets picked rather than the big six. Teams from smaller league should have a separate competition with the winner, or the top two gets picked for ESL
posted on 20/4/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 21 seconds ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The SL is literally created to get more revenue and opportunities to compete for the participating clubs, by taking away potential revenue and opportunities from the remaining clubs.
They make it sound that way, because it's actually the implied endgoal of the project (a franchise league model). Unless you think the other clubs, FIFA/UEFA and fans are just gonna sit back and don't do anything.
It's exactly like the Brexit-promises: we take back the steering wheel and we promise everything will be the exactly the same regarding all the benefits of being in the EU. As if action won't cause a reaction...
posted on 20/4/21
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
On point 1, if every game is a big game; then there are no big games. The reason people look forward to those fixtures is that they are prestigious and infrequent. If you make every game like that then they lose their effect and there no higher level to get excited about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are still big games even though we play every year, don't see how it would be any different. At the moment the top teams don't play each other that often, definitely would be better to see more fixtures between them and the best players competing against each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are big games because they only happen twice a season. That makes it important when they play and makes it a big game. If every game is a big game against a big club, then that becomes the norm and there are no more big games. The games are no longer' must seem as there is another next week. It would completely lose its effect and people would become apathetic to it.
In the new Super League proposals, the teams would all have a big fixture every week until they play Spurs. So following an initial buzz, apathy will ensue.
posted on 20/4/21
But it’s not merit based, how many times do you need to be told this?
posted on 20/4/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 20 minutes ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perception is a funny thing, still at least we're agreed it's not propaganda.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 57 seconds ago
But it’s not merit based, how many times do you need to be told this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, ESL if or when it is formed should be merit based. How many time I have repeat this 🤬
posted on 20/4/21
Then why do you keep repeating it? It’s a completely irrelevant point to make about what it should be. People’s problems are with what it is.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 20 minutes ago
Which parts specifically do you find misleading?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They hardly cover any actual details of the proposal, when the news broke initially, they make it sound like top six wants to break away from from PL. The language they are still using is targeted to gin up outrage, rather than providing information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perception is a funny thing, still at least we're agreed it's not propaganda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is propaganda. There are many positives in even the currently proposed ESL. They don’t make a single attempt to address them.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Then why do you keep repeating it? It’s a completely irrelevant point to make about what it should be. People’s problems are with what it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is wrong with pointing out all the dumb things said about ESL?
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
On point 1, if every game is a big game; then there are no big games. The reason people look forward to those fixtures is that they are prestigious and infrequent. If you make every game like that then they lose their effect and there no higher level to get excited about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are still big games even though we play every year, don't see how it would be any different. At the moment the top teams don't play each other that often, definitely would be better to see more fixtures between them and the best players competing against each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Domestic fixtures are big games because they only happen twice a season. That makes it important when they play and makes it a big game. If every game is a big game against a big club, then that becomes the norm and there are no more big games. The games are no longer' must seem as there is another next week. It would completely lose its effect and people would become apathetic to it.
In the new Super League proposals, the teams would all have a big fixture every week until they play Spurs. So following an initial buzz, apathy will ensue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I get that to some extent. I'd still prefer to see top teams and players playing each other regularly instead of playing a bunch of dead rubbers where they field second strings half the time, and then a decent knockout tournamet from March/April onwards.
posted on 20/4/21
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realize this is just the first draft? Setup can change if all stakeholders are willing to engage in a negotiations.
There are lots of potential in ESL. If FIFA , UEFA or PL actually wants what’s best for football, they should try to work with these clubs to form a competition that is fair for everyone. Instead they are fighting tooth and nail to kill this proposal because it threaten their self interests.
“What ESL should be” is the discussion that should be happening now IMO. It’s frustrating that no one wants to engage in it
posted on 20/4/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
But you continually skirt around the issue of the closed shop. That’s the fundamental issue here. You’re trying to make pro arguments for the ESL on the basis of something it is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You realize this is just the first draft? Setup can change if all stakeholders are willing to engage in a negotiations.
There are lots of potential in ESL. If FIFA , UEFA or PL actually wants what’s best for football, they should try to work with these clubs to form a competition that is fair for everyone. Instead they are fighting tooth and nail to kill this proposal because it threaten their self interests.
“What ESL should be” is the discussion that should be happening now IMO. It’s frustrating that no one wants to engage in it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it seems like even in your discussions of 'what should ESL be' you want to lock out certain nations, which is still a huge problem.
posted on 20/4/21
Like I said yesterday, you are deluded.
Chelsea out now.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Rachel The Queen Riley (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
Like I said yesterday, you are deluded.
Chelsea out now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
City too.
posted on 20/4/21
They probably got some assurances from EUFA. Roman is not the type of a guy to cave in for fan pressure. There has to be some more to it. We’ll see in coming days.
I don’t really care either way. All the drama was really entertaining though
posted on 20/4/21
You’re an idiot
posted on 20/4/21
You are a child, and an idiot if you think anything will fundamentally change after this
posted on 20/4/21
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 6 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
On point one, you look forward to playing them because there are always narratives past the one layer of “to qualify for the next round”. They are rivals and depending on the season u can be even on points or one side better than the other.
I for one, have been begging to get Real Madrid and was bored of constantly getting Barca, or Liverpool in the 00s.
Add the fact that there is no competition in this thing and no repercussions such as a knock out two legged tie. Then yes it will get boring. So it is not nonsense at all and people are allowed that opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The super league still would end with 2 leg QFs & SFs tbf, with a one off Final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But for what purpose? A final in a closed shop. Next year we go again, same teams. Its an American concept that has no place in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well 25% of the teams could be turned over. So not fully closed shop.
Most competitions have the same usual suspects trying to win it each year anyway.
But the closed shop element of it is partly why it’s more viable commercially.
I know a lot of people may not realise this but the UCL has been a commercial failure. Most games don’t attract much attention at all. Apart from serious football fans, no one cares about the UCL. That’s one thing Perez was right about in his statement, 16-24 yr olds aren’t watching UCL games.
The NBA with its ‘closed shop’ is miles bigger than the UCL despite basketball not being anywhere near as big a sport as soccer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also been disproven about 16-24 year olds and viewership, in fact a study in la liga proves the complete opposite. Why do you find yourself on the wrong side of every debate?
posted on 20/4/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
You are a child, and an idiot if you think anything will fundamentally change after this
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your the one who wants change. I’m happy the way things are kid
Page 5 of 5