comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
mancini vs morespurs is the kind of heavyweight match up this article deserves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just need GT to pop up and I’ll have to run to the shops to get some snacks
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 9 minutes ago
Would Fergie have won titles at Barca and Bayern the way Pep did?
When Pep and Fergie met, Pep schooled Fergie twice.
Fergie won the PL when there was only one or maybe two elite managers at other clubs
Fergie dominated the PL when there was no top 6 unlike today
Fergie NEVER got 100 points in the PL
Fergie never achieved the domestic treble In fact, he once labelled this feat as the "impossibe". Pep achieved the impossible.
Fergie never got a team promoted like Pep with Barca B
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There are arguments for both. Pep never did anything like Fergie did with Aberdeen. Fergie did the treble with United which betters the domestic treble that Pep did. Fergie had to do a lot more to get United where they were compared to Pep at City, but maybe Pep's highs will be greater than Fergie's....we shall see on that one. Of course not until he wins the CL with City, which he might not even do this season.
If City don't win the CL then the narrative with Pep will change to him being a flop in Europe rather than this great PL manager.
comment by EdinSelloutSpurs (U1109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
mancini vs morespurs is the kind of heavyweight match up this article deserves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just need GT to pop up and I’ll have to run to the shops to get some snacks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re really missing Wahl to wade in with Mourinho being the best.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
"won the pl playing with a false number 9."
I thought he played Aguero and/or Jesus a lot in all of his PL triumphs, not to say he didn't play a "false No9" on occasion, but Jose did that with Hazard....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were the first team to win title with false 9 with Firmino but City fans seems to be clinging on this like they were the first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, who gives a feck?
I don't remember Utds fans claiming to be the first PL team to win the league with a goal scoring winger or whatever tactical changes were made season upon season.
Didn't we win the title with a false centre back, in Phil Jones?
I genuinely believe Pep is the best head coach we've seen for a long time maybe ever.
However I do think the fact both Mancini and Pelligrini both won the title at City shows that City are basically set up to win stuff whoever they have in charge as neither of those two are great managers.
It's not really an achievement winning the league at City anymore. It's an expectation.
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
I genuinely believe Pep is the best head coach we've seen for a long time maybe ever.
However I do think the fact both Mancini and Pelligrini both won the title at City shows that City are basically set up to win stuff whoever they have in charge as neither of those two are great managers.
It's not really an achievement winning the league at City anymore. It's an expectation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true. And then Pellegrini tried his hand at West Ham and failed with a fair bit of money spent on players who didn't work out.
I'm sure Pep could do well at a lesser club too if he was given enough time, and the club had at least a bit of money to spend, but definitely more chance of things going wrong for him. Remember how he got Bravo in his first season at City and he was a flop and made mistakes. Wouldn't be able to just quickly replace him with quality at a lesser club.
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 3 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 33 minutes ago
Three titles vs thirteen for Fergie, and he's the best ever PL manager? WTF?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit daft to pull in longevity. That means no other manager will ever be the best manager in the league unless they win 14 titles. Which is probably never going to happen again. But it is fairly save to say if Pep stayed 25 years at City he would run SAF close or exceed him. He's literally won multiple league titles in every country he's managed in. He has a win percentage on average of 73% in 740 matches as a manager. SAF is 58%.
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Those stats really do not tell a true story though.
pep has managed city, bayern and barcelona.
fergie managed Aberdeen ( and broke the old firm stranglehold at the time and won the uefa cup.. probably the most impressive thing he ever did), St Mirren and took over a very average Utd team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peps win percentage is like 20% points higher in the PL as well
comment by EdinSelloutSpurs (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 2 minutes ago
Utd basically walked a crap PL for the whole of the 90s. A Blackburn side that didn’t do anything but put in crosses for a whole season and that won them the league. If we are making excuses for some of Peps successes then we can easily do the same with SAF.
What Pep did at Barca is one of the most impressive things I have ever seen (and probably will ever see). It’s a tough comparison as it depends what parameters you are judging them by but it’s hardly the most outrageous claim.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 27 minutes ago
SAF adapted and kept winning. The likes of Wenger and Jose didn't do this.
Pep is a great coach there's no doubt about that and I don't understand why people say he needs to go to a smaller club to prove it. He's at the top because he's proven he can be there!
On SAF though I've often wondered if his long-term team building and evolving to meet challenges came at a cost in terms of CL wins. I think had he thought short-term a bit more often we'd have a few more. I suppose he was unlucky to bump into Pep's Barca though!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think people are not saying that he needs to go to a smaller club but perhaps not have everything stacked in his favour.
At City its money. At Bayern it was total dominance of the club in the Bundesliga. At Barca he had Messi Xavi Iniesta etc.
This is the first UCL final he has reached without Messi in his team...that itself at least prompts the question that given the positions he has taken has he achieved anything more than expected, has he done something truly remarkable, perhaps against the odds?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So winning every possible trophy in one season with Barca is not truly remarkable? Winning a sixtuple was never done before and wont happen again anytime soon. I call that truly remarkable
Did u pick Ronaldo and rooney as players that showed ferries skill? Seems a bit weird. Rooney was known by all coaches from a very early age and was on every clubs radar as an enigma. Ronaldo was hardly unknown either and united got him cos neville said they begged fergie to do so after he torethem up pretty season.
Winning titles with we brown and oshea is way more impressive than making rooney and Ronaldo world class imo.
Pep- best coach around but fergie was a better manager. It's rare anyone will manage a team and get the the control fergie/wenger did nowadays. People underestimate just how much they did compared to today's managers
To play the devils advocate, those who believe Pep is the best ever, how do you feel about these points:
1) Only ever having managed the best squads in the league
2) Having the largest transfer budgets in the league (maybe Real had bigger)
3) Failure in Europe with Bayern, possibly with City too...(he should have won a CL with City already really, competition hasn't been that stiff).
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was still a top 4 squad that had been winning various trophies and had a number of quality players in it. It was probably the strongest squad in the league even at that point.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that not saying he has barely had any time to manage/form his team though? Shouldn't necessarily be seen as a black mark. It's his job to turn it into his team and his way of playing. Like asking a chef to create an amazing recipe in 10 minutes, but only using some mouldy bread and a half eaten wispa gold that the previous guy left over. You'd probably be better judging his work when he uses his own ingredients, methods and is allowed more than 10 minutes to make it.
It is also worth noting that Fergie was quite specific about the players he wanted in his team. If we were doing a hypothetical scenario where Fergie was only allowed to manage someone else's players, some primadonas at PSG or something, he may not fair as well.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
"won the pl playing with a false number 9."
I thought he played Aguero and/or Jesus a lot in all of his PL triumphs, not to say he didn't play a "false No9" on occasion, but Jose did that with Hazard....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were the first team to win title with false 9 with Firmino but City fans seems to be clinging on this like they were the first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, who gives a feck?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Why should anyone give a fack about that?
Conte was the first to win the PL setting up 3-4-3. Who gives a fack?
Ranieri was the first to win the PL with his team averaging under 40% possession of the ball. Who gives a fack?
I mean, if Pep had invented the false nine whilst at City, and then gone on to win the title with it, that’d be something else. But I have no idea why everyone is banging on about this like it’s some kind of unique feat.
Depends how you interpret the statement really.
If it’s is he the best premier league manager ever then no, he’d have to stay here a long while to even get close to that. If it’s is he the best manager to have coached in the PL, then I imagine there will be plenty that will think so by the time he retires at least.
Sign in if you want to comment
is pep the best PL manager of all time?
Page 5 of 5
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
mancini vs morespurs is the kind of heavyweight match up this article deserves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just need GT to pop up and I’ll have to run to the shops to get some snacks
posted on 12/5/21
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 9 minutes ago
Would Fergie have won titles at Barca and Bayern the way Pep did?
When Pep and Fergie met, Pep schooled Fergie twice.
Fergie won the PL when there was only one or maybe two elite managers at other clubs
Fergie dominated the PL when there was no top 6 unlike today
Fergie NEVER got 100 points in the PL
Fergie never achieved the domestic treble In fact, he once labelled this feat as the "impossibe". Pep achieved the impossible.
Fergie never got a team promoted like Pep with Barca B
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are arguments for both. Pep never did anything like Fergie did with Aberdeen. Fergie did the treble with United which betters the domestic treble that Pep did. Fergie had to do a lot more to get United where they were compared to Pep at City, but maybe Pep's highs will be greater than Fergie's....we shall see on that one. Of course not until he wins the CL with City, which he might not even do this season.
If City don't win the CL then the narrative with Pep will change to him being a flop in Europe rather than this great PL manager.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by EdinSelloutSpurs (U1109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
mancini vs morespurs is the kind of heavyweight match up this article deserves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just need GT to pop up and I’ll have to run to the shops to get some snacks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re really missing Wahl to wade in with Mourinho being the best.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
"won the pl playing with a false number 9."
I thought he played Aguero and/or Jesus a lot in all of his PL triumphs, not to say he didn't play a "false No9" on occasion, but Jose did that with Hazard....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were the first team to win title with false 9 with Firmino but City fans seems to be clinging on this like they were the first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, who gives a feck?
posted on 12/5/21
I don't remember Utds fans claiming to be the first PL team to win the league with a goal scoring winger or whatever tactical changes were made season upon season.
posted on 12/5/21
Didn't we win the title with a false centre back, in Phil Jones?
posted on 12/5/21
I genuinely believe Pep is the best head coach we've seen for a long time maybe ever.
However I do think the fact both Mancini and Pelligrini both won the title at City shows that City are basically set up to win stuff whoever they have in charge as neither of those two are great managers.
It's not really an achievement winning the league at City anymore. It's an expectation.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
I genuinely believe Pep is the best head coach we've seen for a long time maybe ever.
However I do think the fact both Mancini and Pelligrini both won the title at City shows that City are basically set up to win stuff whoever they have in charge as neither of those two are great managers.
It's not really an achievement winning the league at City anymore. It's an expectation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true. And then Pellegrini tried his hand at West Ham and failed with a fair bit of money spent on players who didn't work out.
I'm sure Pep could do well at a lesser club too if he was given enough time, and the club had at least a bit of money to spend, but definitely more chance of things going wrong for him. Remember how he got Bravo in his first season at City and he was a flop and made mistakes. Wouldn't be able to just quickly replace him with quality at a lesser club.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 3 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sut mine klunker - Admin 5 (U1250)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 33 minutes ago
Three titles vs thirteen for Fergie, and he's the best ever PL manager? WTF?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit daft to pull in longevity. That means no other manager will ever be the best manager in the league unless they win 14 titles. Which is probably never going to happen again. But it is fairly save to say if Pep stayed 25 years at City he would run SAF close or exceed him. He's literally won multiple league titles in every country he's managed in. He has a win percentage on average of 73% in 740 matches as a manager. SAF is 58%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those stats really do not tell a true story though.
pep has managed city, bayern and barcelona.
fergie managed Aberdeen ( and broke the old firm stranglehold at the time and won the uefa cup.. probably the most impressive thing he ever did), St Mirren and took over a very average Utd team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peps win percentage is like 20% points higher in the PL as well
posted on 12/5/21
comment by EdinSelloutSpurs (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 2 minutes ago
Utd basically walked a crap PL for the whole of the 90s. A Blackburn side that didn’t do anything but put in crosses for a whole season and that won them the league. If we are making excuses for some of Peps successes then we can easily do the same with SAF.
What Pep did at Barca is one of the most impressive things I have ever seen (and probably will ever see). It’s a tough comparison as it depends what parameters you are judging them by but it’s hardly the most outrageous claim.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 27 minutes ago
SAF adapted and kept winning. The likes of Wenger and Jose didn't do this.
Pep is a great coach there's no doubt about that and I don't understand why people say he needs to go to a smaller club to prove it. He's at the top because he's proven he can be there!
On SAF though I've often wondered if his long-term team building and evolving to meet challenges came at a cost in terms of CL wins. I think had he thought short-term a bit more often we'd have a few more. I suppose he was unlucky to bump into Pep's Barca though!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think people are not saying that he needs to go to a smaller club but perhaps not have everything stacked in his favour.
At City its money. At Bayern it was total dominance of the club in the Bundesliga. At Barca he had Messi Xavi Iniesta etc.
This is the first UCL final he has reached without Messi in his team...that itself at least prompts the question that given the positions he has taken has he achieved anything more than expected, has he done something truly remarkable, perhaps against the odds?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So winning every possible trophy in one season with Barca is not truly remarkable? Winning a sixtuple was never done before and wont happen again anytime soon. I call that truly remarkable
posted on 12/5/21
Did u pick Ronaldo and rooney as players that showed ferries skill? Seems a bit weird. Rooney was known by all coaches from a very early age and was on every clubs radar as an enigma. Ronaldo was hardly unknown either and united got him cos neville said they begged fergie to do so after he torethem up pretty season.
Winning titles with we brown and oshea is way more impressive than making rooney and Ronaldo world class imo.
Pep- best coach around but fergie was a better manager. It's rare anyone will manage a team and get the the control fergie/wenger did nowadays. People underestimate just how much they did compared to today's managers
posted on 12/5/21
To play the devils advocate, those who believe Pep is the best ever, how do you feel about these points:
1) Only ever having managed the best squads in the league
2) Having the largest transfer budgets in the league (maybe Real had bigger)
3) Failure in Europe with Bayern, possibly with City too...(he should have won a CL with City already really, competition hasn't been that stiff).
posted on 12/5/21
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was still a top 4 squad that had been winning various trophies and had a number of quality players in it. It was probably the strongest squad in the league even at that point.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Some people have asked how Guardiola would fare with an inferior squad. Didn't we see that in his first season or two at Manchester City, before he upgraded a number of the players team he inherited?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that not saying he has barely had any time to manage/form his team though? Shouldn't necessarily be seen as a black mark. It's his job to turn it into his team and his way of playing. Like asking a chef to create an amazing recipe in 10 minutes, but only using some mouldy bread and a half eaten wispa gold that the previous guy left over. You'd probably be better judging his work when he uses his own ingredients, methods and is allowed more than 10 minutes to make it.
posted on 12/5/21
It is also worth noting that Fergie was quite specific about the players he wanted in his team. If we were doing a hypothetical scenario where Fergie was only allowed to manage someone else's players, some primadonas at PSG or something, he may not fair as well.
posted on 12/5/21
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 18 minutes ago
"won the pl playing with a false number 9."
I thought he played Aguero and/or Jesus a lot in all of his PL triumphs, not to say he didn't play a "false No9" on occasion, but Jose did that with Hazard....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were the first team to win title with false 9 with Firmino but City fans seems to be clinging on this like they were the first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, who gives a feck?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Why should anyone give a fack about that?
Conte was the first to win the PL setting up 3-4-3. Who gives a fack?
Ranieri was the first to win the PL with his team averaging under 40% possession of the ball. Who gives a fack?
I mean, if Pep had invented the false nine whilst at City, and then gone on to win the title with it, that’d be something else. But I have no idea why everyone is banging on about this like it’s some kind of unique feat.
posted on 12/5/21
Depends how you interpret the statement really.
If it’s is he the best premier league manager ever then no, he’d have to stay here a long while to even get close to that. If it’s is he the best manager to have coached in the PL, then I imagine there will be plenty that will think so by the time he retires at least.
Page 5 of 5