I would imagine that we wouldn't be pushing so hard on not having to pay if we didn't think we had a reasonable case. We will appeal this, so lets see what the actual verdict is. With how long it takes FIFA and then CAS to get these things done, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a conclusion to this before the end of the next season.
It’s a hell of a lot of money so the club will be hoping to get away with it. I don’t believe they should and I don’t believe we will. It’s dishonourable and clubs may think twice about dealing with us in future. We can’t really complain about Swansea and James as this is far worse
I imagine part of it will be putting it off so they can spend that money to establish themselves in the PL, and then have the spare profit to pay it off, but I wouldn't say that for certain.
A shame but not at all surprised that FIFA ruled the way they did and despite the appeal we could be looking at a sizable loss on this that eat away that extra prize money for finishing 9th compared to the budgeted 17th for 48 minutes of football from JKA.
I give the club massive credit for everything they have achieved and where we have got to. The JKA episode though was not its finest hour and shows the worst of what can happen in the January transfer window when things go wrong.
Well said Rob. There have been some transfer shockers over the years......Lee Sharpe, Tomas Brolin, Seth Johnson, Kevin Nichols, Roque Junior, Cameron Stewart, Ouasim Bouy but this JKA looks like beating them all!
Angus Kinear said in January that we wont be gambling on signings, yet signed we signed a crocked player on a deal that we end up having to pay for and actually don't get the player. Some of our recruitment has been shambolic over the past few seasons, obviously promotion glosses over of all that.
Augustin has been just about the only dud we have signed in the last few years.
When the club signed him I'm sure they thought everything was ok, I mean, its the club that do his medical and check his fitness!..
Not the players fault and we cant blame Leipzig for doing a deal that any normal person can see was done properly and are now chasing what they're owed!..
I said at the time the club were wrong and I thought they would lose when going the way they have, Football is a cutthroat business but it seems what has happened here is Leeds have cut their own throat!..
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
comment by LeedsFanFor46Years - Prem4harj (U6871)
posted 28 minutes ago
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mucky end of the stick? What are you talking about - we behaved disgracefully and arrogantly and we should not be allowed to treat players like JKA with such contempt. There is only one just verdict. Let’s man up and take the punishment we deserve.
46, Leeds intended using him in the run in, so the argument about the run out date I don't think works, because he was injured while training for the last games that both clubs must have agreed to him playing!..
It would have been less trouble if he hadn't have been injured!..
Bielsa might have even turned him into that 40m player that people were fooled about!..
If Red Bull have anymore Haaland type players they want rid off it'd be a waste off time us trying for them, because after this carry on Red Bull will be advising others to steer well clear of Leeds!..
Comment deleted by Article Creator
The law should win an appeal here.
However, look even at the Emiliano Sala case. 2 1/2 years on and as far as I’m aware, still no final decision by CAS.
FIFA should use common sense itself more often and try to make rulings based on compromise.
Sorry, but I don't buy into the "let's man up and pay up because we acted dishonourably" argument.
Fat Kev was engaged to help us win promotion. He didn't because he was too fat and did not respond to the demands Bielsa made of him. I also detect the famous French "phack you" attitude in play on his part personally - he's not played at Nantes either. Austin, RB Leipzig, and their lawyers are treating us like a cash cow on this one.
Yes, we made a mistake in signing him and yes, we should pay for it but not the full amount because he only put in 50 minutes over the entire period he was at ER - because he was unfit. The argument that the terms of the contract were not satisfied by the player is sound, in my view.
The parties should be encouraged by FIFA to come to some sensible agreement and Leipzig should share in the "loss" in his (falsely inflated) value.
We must and will appeal - we can only hope that the lawyers earn their (falsely inflated) fee for once. We should also sue the player and his agent.
if the contract stipulated a date then that is what you go on.
If we were not promoted by that date then tough.
Should clubs be allowed to sue players who didnt play after their contracts had finished last year even though the season wasnt done?
same princible
Using a pandemic that’s killed closing in on 4 million people to get away with paying a transfer fee I find quite disturbing.
So JKA is now at Nantes, both Leipzig and ourselves gave written permission and relinquished any claim to his registration.
How can either team give written permission in these circumstances?
Reported that we had to take Harrison on loan this past season, because the clause to take him permanently had expired due to the extended season. The new clause is about 3 million more, so this technicality is already costing us money. More than happy for the club to use it to get out of paying for Augustin.
If it wasn't for the pandemic than we would have had to sign him, so, there must have been something put in place and both parties must have agreed for him to play the extended season!..
He was injured training for the remaining games, as for his fitness, the coaching staff and Bielsa said he'd done great and was to be included in the run in!..
Don't understand why people think Leeds are in the right for wanting to use him and than throwing him on the scrapheap because of injury, things must have been agreed or he would have been releast on the runout date!..
comment by Lorralorimer (U18994)
posted 9 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor46Years - Prem4harj (U6871)
posted 28 minutes ago
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mucky end of the stick? What are you talking about - we behaved disgracefully and arrogantly and we should not be allowed to treat players like JKA with such contempt. There is only one just verdict. Let’s man up and take the punishment we deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Self-flagellation isn't a great position.
Rightly or wrongly, we're not looking at the moral of this particular story - this is a legal, contractual wrangle.
I was saying that if the contract has a firm date associated with us attaining promotion and that date passed, then there's no way the decision should not have gone our way. A contract is a contract, but fundamentally is dependent on the precise wording, not only the 'spirit' of it.
As LufcGermany says, if it wasn't for the pandemic then we would have had to sign him.
The onus was on Leipzig to have provision in the contract to cover a delayed season end. For example, they could have had a clause stating "promotion by 30th May or the end of the season whichever is later".
I don't agree that Leeds "used him and threw him on the scrapheap" though -- I think he threw himself on the scrapheap. Whatever was quoted from the coaching staff, he clearly didn't get down to the weight Bielsa required and hasn't exactly set the footballing world on fire with his subsequent move.
Leipzig gave him away - not something you do if you have a valuable asset.
"Leipzig gave him away - not something you do if you have a valuable asset."
I would say €21m isn't exactly a give away!..
And it takes 2 to agree a fee!..
I'm hoping Leeds don't lose on this, but wouldn't be surprised if they do, my problem is for the player and the crap he's been dragged through!..
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posted on 8/6/21
I would imagine that we wouldn't be pushing so hard on not having to pay if we didn't think we had a reasonable case. We will appeal this, so lets see what the actual verdict is. With how long it takes FIFA and then CAS to get these things done, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a conclusion to this before the end of the next season.
posted on 8/6/21
It’s a hell of a lot of money so the club will be hoping to get away with it. I don’t believe they should and I don’t believe we will. It’s dishonourable and clubs may think twice about dealing with us in future. We can’t really complain about Swansea and James as this is far worse
posted on 8/6/21
I imagine part of it will be putting it off so they can spend that money to establish themselves in the PL, and then have the spare profit to pay it off, but I wouldn't say that for certain.
posted on 8/6/21
A shame but not at all surprised that FIFA ruled the way they did and despite the appeal we could be looking at a sizable loss on this that eat away that extra prize money for finishing 9th compared to the budgeted 17th for 48 minutes of football from JKA.
I give the club massive credit for everything they have achieved and where we have got to. The JKA episode though was not its finest hour and shows the worst of what can happen in the January transfer window when things go wrong.
posted on 8/6/21
Well said Rob. There have been some transfer shockers over the years......Lee Sharpe, Tomas Brolin, Seth Johnson, Kevin Nichols, Roque Junior, Cameron Stewart, Ouasim Bouy but this JKA looks like beating them all!
posted on 8/6/21
Angus Kinear said in January that we wont be gambling on signings, yet signed we signed a crocked player on a deal that we end up having to pay for and actually don't get the player. Some of our recruitment has been shambolic over the past few seasons, obviously promotion glosses over of all that.
posted on 8/6/21
Augustin has been just about the only dud we have signed in the last few years.
posted on 8/6/21
When the club signed him I'm sure they thought everything was ok, I mean, its the club that do his medical and check his fitness!..
Not the players fault and we cant blame Leipzig for doing a deal that any normal person can see was done properly and are now chasing what they're owed!..
I said at the time the club were wrong and I thought they would lose when going the way they have, Football is a cutthroat business but it seems what has happened here is Leeds have cut their own throat!..
posted on 9/6/21
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
posted on 9/6/21
comment by LeedsFanFor46Years - Prem4harj (U6871)
posted 28 minutes ago
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mucky end of the stick? What are you talking about - we behaved disgracefully and arrogantly and we should not be allowed to treat players like JKA with such contempt. There is only one just verdict. Let’s man up and take the punishment we deserve.
posted on 9/6/21
46, Leeds intended using him in the run in, so the argument about the run out date I don't think works, because he was injured while training for the last games that both clubs must have agreed to him playing!..
It would have been less trouble if he hadn't have been injured!..
Bielsa might have even turned him into that 40m player that people were fooled about!..
posted on 9/6/21
If Red Bull have anymore Haaland type players they want rid off it'd be a waste off time us trying for them, because after this carry on Red Bull will be advising others to steer well clear of Leeds!..
posted on 9/6/21
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 9/6/21
The law should win an appeal here.
However, look even at the Emiliano Sala case. 2 1/2 years on and as far as I’m aware, still no final decision by CAS.
FIFA should use common sense itself more often and try to make rulings based on compromise.
posted on 9/6/21
Sorry, but I don't buy into the "let's man up and pay up because we acted dishonourably" argument.
Fat Kev was engaged to help us win promotion. He didn't because he was too fat and did not respond to the demands Bielsa made of him. I also detect the famous French "phack you" attitude in play on his part personally - he's not played at Nantes either. Austin, RB Leipzig, and their lawyers are treating us like a cash cow on this one.
Yes, we made a mistake in signing him and yes, we should pay for it but not the full amount because he only put in 50 minutes over the entire period he was at ER - because he was unfit. The argument that the terms of the contract were not satisfied by the player is sound, in my view.
The parties should be encouraged by FIFA to come to some sensible agreement and Leipzig should share in the "loss" in his (falsely inflated) value.
We must and will appeal - we can only hope that the lawyers earn their (falsely inflated) fee for once. We should also sue the player and his agent.
posted on 9/6/21
if the contract stipulated a date then that is what you go on.
If we were not promoted by that date then tough.
Should clubs be allowed to sue players who didnt play after their contracts had finished last year even though the season wasnt done?
same princible
posted on 9/6/21
Using a pandemic that’s killed closing in on 4 million people to get away with paying a transfer fee I find quite disturbing.
posted on 9/6/21
So JKA is now at Nantes, both Leipzig and ourselves gave written permission and relinquished any claim to his registration.
How can either team give written permission in these circumstances?
posted on 9/6/21
Reported that we had to take Harrison on loan this past season, because the clause to take him permanently had expired due to the extended season. The new clause is about 3 million more, so this technicality is already costing us money. More than happy for the club to use it to get out of paying for Augustin.
posted on 9/6/21
If it wasn't for the pandemic than we would have had to sign him, so, there must have been something put in place and both parties must have agreed for him to play the extended season!..
He was injured training for the remaining games, as for his fitness, the coaching staff and Bielsa said he'd done great and was to be included in the run in!..
Don't understand why people think Leeds are in the right for wanting to use him and than throwing him on the scrapheap because of injury, things must have been agreed or he would have been releast on the runout date!..
posted on 9/6/21
comment by Lorralorimer (U18994)
posted 9 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor46Years - Prem4harj (U6871)
posted 28 minutes ago
Odd that they should come to the conclusion they have. There was a similar situation with Messi who had been told he could leave on a free by the end of the season, but the season ended later and they said the clause had expired:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/messi-cannot-leave-former-barcelona-president-says-star-cant-opt-/1kqjux0azcr4y1ag0m3o0iq0fv
I'm sure that I read somewhere back when it happened that the contract with Augustin was specified by date not by end of season and so Leeds should have been in the right.
Hope the appeal goes our way, but we seem to always end up with the mucky end of the stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mucky end of the stick? What are you talking about - we behaved disgracefully and arrogantly and we should not be allowed to treat players like JKA with such contempt. There is only one just verdict. Let’s man up and take the punishment we deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Self-flagellation isn't a great position.
Rightly or wrongly, we're not looking at the moral of this particular story - this is a legal, contractual wrangle.
I was saying that if the contract has a firm date associated with us attaining promotion and that date passed, then there's no way the decision should not have gone our way. A contract is a contract, but fundamentally is dependent on the precise wording, not only the 'spirit' of it.
As LufcGermany says, if it wasn't for the pandemic then we would have had to sign him.
The onus was on Leipzig to have provision in the contract to cover a delayed season end. For example, they could have had a clause stating "promotion by 30th May or the end of the season whichever is later".
I don't agree that Leeds "used him and threw him on the scrapheap" though -- I think he threw himself on the scrapheap. Whatever was quoted from the coaching staff, he clearly didn't get down to the weight Bielsa required and hasn't exactly set the footballing world on fire with his subsequent move.
Leipzig gave him away - not something you do if you have a valuable asset.
posted on 9/6/21
"Leipzig gave him away - not something you do if you have a valuable asset."
I would say €21m isn't exactly a give away!..
And it takes 2 to agree a fee!..
I'm hoping Leeds don't lose on this, but wouldn't be surprised if they do, my problem is for the player and the crap he's been dragged through!..
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