We just keep getting kicked when already down. I am convinced that the EFL will not rest until a 'big' club goes out of business. How are we supposed to get back even when we continue to get punished. Once again it is the fans who suffer
Dry yir eyes - Rangers died but the fans still have a club to follow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I remember the players not being paid was at a time when we were expecting the takeover by the Sheik and money was expected to arrive in the Club's coffers. Clearly another take over went by the way side. This none payment was righted within a short space of time.
I keep beating the drum on this but we simply aren't on a level playing field are we. We're competing with sides in the Championship who get 4 years parachute payments. £40million for the first season and about £30million for the second I think its £15m for the 3rd & 4th seasons. This is at a time when there is no income for Clubs. Yet the EFL insist on measures that will push most clubs towards bankruptcy. Yes, I accept we've been flying close to the wind but to me it does appear that the EFL has an unrealistic approach to running the league.
I get totally fed up with constantly reading bad press about the Rams and look forward to brighter days....
I don't have access to them but the EFL rules on accounting etc don't seem to be transparent and are open to retrospective interpretation. I expect a determined solicitor could haul the EFL up in court for how they are treating Derby.
You are so right Terry about the massive advantage clubs with parachute payments have in the Championship. If they wanted to do something to make the competition more fair then why don't they do something about this egregious disparity.
Quite right chaps,i did a Fred on parachute payments back in May. They should be abolished a.s.a.p. in my opinion.
I agree 100%. Parachutes should be abolished. If there is to be a level playing field in the Championship (and surely the integrity of the league, which the EFL keep banging on about, demands this) then how can anyone justify them except greedy Prem clubs who fear the possibility of relegation? If parachutes were not available then maybe some Prem clubs would not dish out such ridiculous transfer fees and wages and thus keep themselves on a more sustainable footing.
How surprising is it that Norwich and Watford secured immediate Prem return and Bournemouth very nearly did so? The three relegated teams from last season will almost certainly dominate the Championship this coming season. Is it any wonder that other clubs feel the need to bend the regulations and take transfer fee risks to help them compete?
And all those self-righteous fans of other clubs who are now delighting in Derby's plight, calling for their immediate relegation and pleading unfairness in comparative sanctions (eg Leeds) should stop to ask themselves if their own clubs are whiter than white. "There but for the grace of God"etc.
I'm not sure that any of this lets Mel and his advisers off the hook and I agree that the Brentford model should ideally be the norm. Funnily enough I seem to remember Warburton resigned his managerial position with them when they decided to implement this model as he did not agree with it!
How can they abolish the parachute payments? If they did that the teams coming down from the prem wouldn’t be able to pay the high earners at their perspective clubs. You only have to look how Ravanelli nearly bankrupted Derby.
Why should the profligacy of Prem clubs who are relegated be rewarded at the expense of the rest of the Championship clubs? The certainty of parachutes as a prop just encourages the "smaller" Prem clubs to spend beyond what is sensible. The Prem clubs with billionaire owners will of course spend like crazy no matter what. (I know it is obvious now that DCFC have spent beyond their means but if they should be relegated to League One for next season there will be no parachutes for them so they would have to suck it up.) Why should only relegated Prem clubs be protected? No - the parachutes distort the whole picture; even more so following the pandemic.
Put a hard wage cap in place instead.
Dock 6 points for each player on the books over that wage cap.
The relegated clubs would soon be getting rid of those high earners without the need for parachute payments.
The EFL can subject us to as many penalties as they like. Being English they will never make one count. .
comment by Spart-Derby really are the best says red dog. (U4603)
posted 3 hours, 46 minutes ago
The EFL can subject us to as many penalties as they like. Being English they will never make one count. .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I reckon Sterling, Grealish and Shaw would have been better choices than Sancho and Saka. Rashford should be shot for his, but he does take pens for Man U. I feel sorry for the young lads having to take a pen when the most capped player didn't, Southgate made a bad mistake with this as well as bringing a defender in the team in place of an attacker, which told Italy were sh!t£ scared.
What a missed chance to win something, Kane was brilliant.
The penalties were a microcosm of the match - too tentative, without conviction and appearing fearful (apart from Kane's and Maguire's penalties that is). As VC says this was a huge opportunity to win a trophy and we let it slip away. If you give it a good go and lose then fair enough, but we did not give it enough of a go.
I hesitate to criticise as I believe England did us proud. Every single player who put in an appearance, whether for 120 mins, 90 mins or just 20 mins was excellent except maybe Henderson and to a lesser degree Mount but there were mitigating circumstances in their cases. Southgate did not get much wrong and got lots right in my opinion. I do wish, however, that after that brilliant goal we had pressed more and for longer as Italy were under the cosh and rocking in that first 20 mins or so. A second goal would surely have killed it.
I was hoping that the penalty missers would not get any abuse, never mind racial abuse but I guess that's too much to hope for. It really is time that Twitter et al were hit hard financially or shut down if they continue to fail to weed out these brainless yobs/cowards.
I think the players he picked over the tournament all did well individually but I don't think we functioned as well as we should have done as a team, at least not with any consistency. Southgate is a smart bloke and I hope that when he reflects he won't be completely fooled by the fact we got to the final. Had the draw been different we could well have been knocked out much earlier and then the post-mortem would be very different. I don't really think that our play overall was that of the second-best team in Europe. The big positive is how young many of the players are so hopefully the team will improve. My fear is that Southgate won't make the most of the great potential which exists in the creative players.
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
comment by VC10Ram (U18980)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I like about this site - full of insightful, considered and often humorous observations from VC 10, Vidal, all of you unlike most of the Derbyshire Live posters. ( I'm a good crawler!) I've only just become a member having been a regular visitor going back to the old BBC days and have always enjoyed reading all the threads and comments (even from some Red Dogs!) Whether my fourpen'orths are up to standard, I don't know but I just want to add a bit more.
At the end of the day, the Euros are just another (albeit hugely important) cup competition and as in most cups, the best team does not always win, many teams have easier draws than others and Lady Luck often spreads herself around in arbitrary ways. For the first time since 1966 we got into a Final and damn well nearly did it and I don't care whether the draw and home advantage helped us or not. Italy were made to sweat for nearly 2.5 hours and could just as easily have lost it as won. I do think, however, that they were slightly the better side overall but only just and perhaps, over the whole competition, they were the team to beat although I really think they were lucky agin Spain. We can all point to something that may have been better managed but personally, I would rather rejoice in the achievement and the wealth of emerging talent this country now has and look forward to the World Cup for which we will have a manager (GS) who has gained a bundle of extra experience and respect.
Nice one Chicago.
Today I've felt as flat and as low as I can remember in the aftermath of a match. I know that chances like these don't come around all that often. I dream of a glorious day in the company of my two lads and I was so disappointed it didn't happen.
Good on you for focusing on the pluses and in a day or two maybe I'll follow suit. At the moment my main feeling is that we did not give ourselves the best chance of winning. Maybe with another approach it would not have worked out either, who knows. Italy's goal had a bit of luck about it and if that had not gone in then maybe they would eventualy have become a bit too desperate and we might have seen it out. But I felt we showed them a bit too much respect. For all of the pre-match talk about their warrior-like centre halves I thought they were there for the taking if we had been brave. Before the tournament I thought that one of Pickford, Maguire or Stomes would do something daft that would cost us. Well I was wrong about that. I thought that we wouldn't struggle to score goals and I was wrong about that too. If you take away the Ukraine game we scored 7 in 6 games, not enough, especially with the players available.
But it's gone now. Southgate has created a great team ethic and I just hope we can kick on from it and add a bit more flair.
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by VC10Ram (U18980)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I like about this site - full of insightful, considered and often humorous observations from VC 10, Vidal, all of you unlike most of the Derbyshire Live posters. ( I'm a good crawler!) I've only just become a member having been a regular visitor going back to the old BBC days and have always enjoyed reading all the threads and comments (even from some Red Dogs!) Whether my fourpen'orths are up to standard, I don't know but I just want to add a bit more.
At the end of the day, the Euros are just another (albeit hugely important) cup competition and as in most cups, the best team does not always win, many teams have easier draws than others and Lady Luck often spreads herself around in arbitrary ways. For the first time since 1966 we got into a Final and damn well nearly did it and I don't care whether the draw and home advantage helped us or not. Italy were made to sweat for nearly 2.5 hours and could just as easily have lost it as won. I do think, however, that they were slightly the better side overall but only just and perhaps, over the whole competition, they were the team to beat although I really think they were lucky agin Spain. We can all point to something that may have been better managed but personally, I would rather rejoice in the achievement and the wealth of emerging talent this country now has and look forward to the World Cup for which we will have a manager (GS) who has gained a bundle of extra experience and respect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say you were doing great, Chicago, keep up the comments.
Welcome to our eclectic little group, I think you'll fit in well
comment by 🏴 HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Ditto. 🏴
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks to all.
While it's good of Chicago to recognise the insightful, considered and humorous posters, I feel he really ought to have also mentioned Spart, who regularly contributes to this site.
Welcome Chicago your posts are excellent, welcome to our little group.
If we'd gone at them and tried to get another goal and lost, I wouldn't be so upset. It is the Cocu style messing about I can't stand.
I'll be 128 in 55 years, hope we are still around when Southgate's granddaughter is manager.
comment by lastapostleofvidal (U1491)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
While it's good of Chicago to recognise the insightful, considered and humorous posters, I feel he really ought to have also mentioned Spart, who regularly contributes to this site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never been called insightful, considered or humorous before on this site, Chicago has made my day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ThqIk-tn8A
Thanks VC. Also I'm thrilled to know I still have it in me to make someone's day! Sounds like you and I are about the same age. Will we ever get to see DCFC in the Prem again?
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 4 hours, 7 minutes ago
Thanks VC. Also I'm thrilled to know I still have it in me to make someone's day! Sounds like you and I are about the same age. Will we ever get to see DCFC in the Prem again?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think we will, but we can live in hope that another Brian Clough will come along and get us moving up the league. At least we've seen the good days with Hector, McFarland and Todd and the other wonderful layers...
Where did it all go wrong??? Sacking BC, Charlie George's injury, useless Leighton James and much more.
Sign in if you want to comment
Suspended points penalty
Page 1 of 2
posted on 9/7/21
We just keep getting kicked when already down. I am convinced that the EFL will not rest until a 'big' club goes out of business. How are we supposed to get back even when we continue to get punished. Once again it is the fans who suffer
posted on 9/7/21
Dry yir eyes - Rangers died but the fans still have a club to follow.
posted on 10/7/21
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I remember the players not being paid was at a time when we were expecting the takeover by the Sheik and money was expected to arrive in the Club's coffers. Clearly another take over went by the way side. This none payment was righted within a short space of time.
I keep beating the drum on this but we simply aren't on a level playing field are we. We're competing with sides in the Championship who get 4 years parachute payments. £40million for the first season and about £30million for the second I think its £15m for the 3rd & 4th seasons. This is at a time when there is no income for Clubs. Yet the EFL insist on measures that will push most clubs towards bankruptcy. Yes, I accept we've been flying close to the wind but to me it does appear that the EFL has an unrealistic approach to running the league.
I get totally fed up with constantly reading bad press about the Rams and look forward to brighter days....
posted on 10/7/21
I don't have access to them but the EFL rules on accounting etc don't seem to be transparent and are open to retrospective interpretation. I expect a determined solicitor could haul the EFL up in court for how they are treating Derby.
You are so right Terry about the massive advantage clubs with parachute payments have in the Championship. If they wanted to do something to make the competition more fair then why don't they do something about this egregious disparity.
posted on 10/7/21
Quite right chaps,i did a Fred on parachute payments back in May. They should be abolished a.s.a.p. in my opinion.
posted on 10/7/21
I agree 100%. Parachutes should be abolished. If there is to be a level playing field in the Championship (and surely the integrity of the league, which the EFL keep banging on about, demands this) then how can anyone justify them except greedy Prem clubs who fear the possibility of relegation? If parachutes were not available then maybe some Prem clubs would not dish out such ridiculous transfer fees and wages and thus keep themselves on a more sustainable footing.
How surprising is it that Norwich and Watford secured immediate Prem return and Bournemouth very nearly did so? The three relegated teams from last season will almost certainly dominate the Championship this coming season. Is it any wonder that other clubs feel the need to bend the regulations and take transfer fee risks to help them compete?
And all those self-righteous fans of other clubs who are now delighting in Derby's plight, calling for their immediate relegation and pleading unfairness in comparative sanctions (eg Leeds) should stop to ask themselves if their own clubs are whiter than white. "There but for the grace of God"etc.
I'm not sure that any of this lets Mel and his advisers off the hook and I agree that the Brentford model should ideally be the norm. Funnily enough I seem to remember Warburton resigned his managerial position with them when they decided to implement this model as he did not agree with it!
posted on 11/7/21
How can they abolish the parachute payments? If they did that the teams coming down from the prem wouldn’t be able to pay the high earners at their perspective clubs. You only have to look how Ravanelli nearly bankrupted Derby.
posted on 11/7/21
Why should the profligacy of Prem clubs who are relegated be rewarded at the expense of the rest of the Championship clubs? The certainty of parachutes as a prop just encourages the "smaller" Prem clubs to spend beyond what is sensible. The Prem clubs with billionaire owners will of course spend like crazy no matter what. (I know it is obvious now that DCFC have spent beyond their means but if they should be relegated to League One for next season there will be no parachutes for them so they would have to suck it up.) Why should only relegated Prem clubs be protected? No - the parachutes distort the whole picture; even more so following the pandemic.
posted on 11/7/21
Put a hard wage cap in place instead.
Dock 6 points for each player on the books over that wage cap.
The relegated clubs would soon be getting rid of those high earners without the need for parachute payments.
posted on 12/7/21
The EFL can subject us to as many penalties as they like. Being English they will never make one count. .
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Spart-Derby really are the best says red dog. (U4603)
posted 3 hours, 46 minutes ago
The EFL can subject us to as many penalties as they like. Being English they will never make one count. .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I reckon Sterling, Grealish and Shaw would have been better choices than Sancho and Saka. Rashford should be shot for his, but he does take pens for Man U. I feel sorry for the young lads having to take a pen when the most capped player didn't, Southgate made a bad mistake with this as well as bringing a defender in the team in place of an attacker, which told Italy were sh!t£ scared.
What a missed chance to win something, Kane was brilliant.
posted on 12/7/21
The penalties were a microcosm of the match - too tentative, without conviction and appearing fearful (apart from Kane's and Maguire's penalties that is). As VC says this was a huge opportunity to win a trophy and we let it slip away. If you give it a good go and lose then fair enough, but we did not give it enough of a go.
posted on 12/7/21
I hesitate to criticise as I believe England did us proud. Every single player who put in an appearance, whether for 120 mins, 90 mins or just 20 mins was excellent except maybe Henderson and to a lesser degree Mount but there were mitigating circumstances in their cases. Southgate did not get much wrong and got lots right in my opinion. I do wish, however, that after that brilliant goal we had pressed more and for longer as Italy were under the cosh and rocking in that first 20 mins or so. A second goal would surely have killed it.
I was hoping that the penalty missers would not get any abuse, never mind racial abuse but I guess that's too much to hope for. It really is time that Twitter et al were hit hard financially or shut down if they continue to fail to weed out these brainless yobs/cowards.
posted on 12/7/21
I think the players he picked over the tournament all did well individually but I don't think we functioned as well as we should have done as a team, at least not with any consistency. Southgate is a smart bloke and I hope that when he reflects he won't be completely fooled by the fact we got to the final. Had the draw been different we could well have been knocked out much earlier and then the post-mortem would be very different. I don't really think that our play overall was that of the second-best team in Europe. The big positive is how young many of the players are so hopefully the team will improve. My fear is that Southgate won't make the most of the great potential which exists in the creative players.
posted on 12/7/21
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
posted on 12/7/21
comment by VC10Ram (U18980)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I like about this site - full of insightful, considered and often humorous observations from VC 10, Vidal, all of you unlike most of the Derbyshire Live posters. ( I'm a good crawler!) I've only just become a member having been a regular visitor going back to the old BBC days and have always enjoyed reading all the threads and comments (even from some Red Dogs!) Whether my fourpen'orths are up to standard, I don't know but I just want to add a bit more.
At the end of the day, the Euros are just another (albeit hugely important) cup competition and as in most cups, the best team does not always win, many teams have easier draws than others and Lady Luck often spreads herself around in arbitrary ways. For the first time since 1966 we got into a Final and damn well nearly did it and I don't care whether the draw and home advantage helped us or not. Italy were made to sweat for nearly 2.5 hours and could just as easily have lost it as won. I do think, however, that they were slightly the better side overall but only just and perhaps, over the whole competition, they were the team to beat although I really think they were lucky agin Spain. We can all point to something that may have been better managed but personally, I would rather rejoice in the achievement and the wealth of emerging talent this country now has and look forward to the World Cup for which we will have a manager (GS) who has gained a bundle of extra experience and respect.
posted on 12/7/21
Nice one Chicago.
Today I've felt as flat and as low as I can remember in the aftermath of a match. I know that chances like these don't come around all that often. I dream of a glorious day in the company of my two lads and I was so disappointed it didn't happen.
Good on you for focusing on the pluses and in a day or two maybe I'll follow suit. At the moment my main feeling is that we did not give ourselves the best chance of winning. Maybe with another approach it would not have worked out either, who knows. Italy's goal had a bit of luck about it and if that had not gone in then maybe they would eventualy have become a bit too desperate and we might have seen it out. But I felt we showed them a bit too much respect. For all of the pre-match talk about their warrior-like centre halves I thought they were there for the taking if we had been brave. Before the tournament I thought that one of Pickford, Maguire or Stomes would do something daft that would cost us. Well I was wrong about that. I thought that we wouldn't struggle to score goals and I was wrong about that too. If you take away the Ukraine game we scored 7 in 6 games, not enough, especially with the players available.
But it's gone now. Southgate has created a great team ethic and I just hope we can kick on from it and add a bit more flair.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by VC10Ram (U18980)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with both of you, the racial criticism of the young players is criminal and twitter should make sure they have the names of posters so they can be prosecuted. It is Southgate that asked 2 young inexperienced lads to go up before the most capped player, he needed to look after them better. I am livid with Rashford, we all know you should belt the ball like Maguire did.
Best chance we've had for 55 years and Southgate blew it in the end like I thought he might, he isn't a very good manager although I'll give him credit for getting a good team spirit which nearly got us there.
If only.....................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I like about this site - full of insightful, considered and often humorous observations from VC 10, Vidal, all of you unlike most of the Derbyshire Live posters. ( I'm a good crawler!) I've only just become a member having been a regular visitor going back to the old BBC days and have always enjoyed reading all the threads and comments (even from some Red Dogs!) Whether my fourpen'orths are up to standard, I don't know but I just want to add a bit more.
At the end of the day, the Euros are just another (albeit hugely important) cup competition and as in most cups, the best team does not always win, many teams have easier draws than others and Lady Luck often spreads herself around in arbitrary ways. For the first time since 1966 we got into a Final and damn well nearly did it and I don't care whether the draw and home advantage helped us or not. Italy were made to sweat for nearly 2.5 hours and could just as easily have lost it as won. I do think, however, that they were slightly the better side overall but only just and perhaps, over the whole competition, they were the team to beat although I really think they were lucky agin Spain. We can all point to something that may have been better managed but personally, I would rather rejoice in the achievement and the wealth of emerging talent this country now has and look forward to the World Cup for which we will have a manager (GS) who has gained a bundle of extra experience and respect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say you were doing great, Chicago, keep up the comments.
Welcome to our eclectic little group, I think you'll fit in well
posted on 12/7/21
Ditto. 🏴
posted on 13/7/21
comment by 🏴 HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Ditto. 🏴
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks to all.
posted on 13/7/21
While it's good of Chicago to recognise the insightful, considered and humorous posters, I feel he really ought to have also mentioned Spart, who regularly contributes to this site.
posted on 13/7/21
Welcome Chicago your posts are excellent, welcome to our little group.
If we'd gone at them and tried to get another goal and lost, I wouldn't be so upset. It is the Cocu style messing about I can't stand.
I'll be 128 in 55 years, hope we are still around when Southgate's granddaughter is manager.
posted on 13/7/21
comment by lastapostleofvidal (U1491)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
While it's good of Chicago to recognise the insightful, considered and humorous posters, I feel he really ought to have also mentioned Spart, who regularly contributes to this site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never been called insightful, considered or humorous before on this site, Chicago has made my day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ThqIk-tn8A
posted on 13/7/21
Thanks VC. Also I'm thrilled to know I still have it in me to make someone's day! Sounds like you and I are about the same age. Will we ever get to see DCFC in the Prem again?
posted on 13/7/21
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 4 hours, 7 minutes ago
Thanks VC. Also I'm thrilled to know I still have it in me to make someone's day! Sounds like you and I are about the same age. Will we ever get to see DCFC in the Prem again?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think we will, but we can live in hope that another Brian Clough will come along and get us moving up the league. At least we've seen the good days with Hector, McFarland and Todd and the other wonderful layers...
Where did it all go wrong??? Sacking BC, Charlie George's injury, useless Leighton James and much more.
Page 1 of 2