Good article.
One cause for hope is that England's team is young and some of our most talented players were only on the fringes this time due to inexperience. The players who have worked their way through since the FA finally got its act together on youth development have done spectacularly in youth competitions and that tap of significantly improved talent is now beginning to enter the senior team. We were up against a very canny as well as very talented Italian side. Just imagine what the likes of Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Grealish and Sancho can do once they have a few years of top level experience / game management under their belts, in addition to talent.
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
Good article.
One cause for hope is that England's team is young and some of our most talented players were only on the fringes this time due to inexperience. The players who have worked their way through since the FA finally got its act together on youth development have done spectacularly in youth competitions and that tap of significantly improved talent is now beginning to enter the senior team. We were up against a very canny as well as very talented Italian side. Just imagine what the likes of Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Grealish and Sancho can do once they have a few years of top level experience / game management under their belts, in addition to talent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saka will get alot of experience going forward for sure. Foden, Sancho and Grealish will continue to get scraps under Safegate.
Southgates trustees will always get the nod from the off even if they have off games. Sterling was abysmal in the SF and Final but still gets pushed on us as Pele. Mount has done Nothing of note all Tournament. Both of them just nullified Kane. Last night was a wasted opportunity not heroic defeat.
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 45 seconds ago
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean someone with unquestionable pedigree in the game, such as Capello or Sven? It's always a sure bet that success and champagne football will ensue. Southgate isn't beyond criticism, but since he took over a team that got humiliated by Iceland (Iceland!), we've had our best WC since 1990 followed by our best major tournament performance since 1966.
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 2 minutes ago
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree. This generation of talent needs to be utilised properly. Not fed scraps from a by the book over cautious manager that deploys 7/8 defensive players every game. After 20 minutes it was all Italy despite going a goal down.
He had the ruthless streak to hook Grealish off as a sub the other day. Where is his ruthless streak to hook off Pele? He ran into so many blind alleys last night he could've been a homeless guy looking to get out of the rain. Or hooking his prefect schoolboy Mount whose done nothing?
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 25 seconds ago
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball retention seems to have been an issue since as far back as the 1970s, we seem to produce a lot of big, powerful midfielders with a decent range of passing but not, dare I say it? Enough Paul Scholes-types, little technically proficient, even under extreme pressure midfielders who dictate things and knit-small, 4-5 yard passes together and move the team up the pitch that way.
Southgate managed to get every decision wrong. Quite remarkable really.
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
Southgates game management is diabolical.
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will acquire that top level experience regardless of who is in charge of England, because they will be playing for elite European clubs.
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 4 minutes ago
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, most top European teams have emphasis on technical ability. If you look at the European power houses, England, Germany, France, Italy and Spain. England are serious under achievers. 2 major tournament finals is pathetic, 1 before yesterday. The other 4 nations have over 20 titles between them and countless finals.
Also I don't think England will have a better chance to win a major tournament. This one they had everything going for them, its like UEFA were like here, its all yours. All games bar one played in Wembley with minimum travel in front of their own fans with hardly any opposition fans, a fairly easy route to the final. Only decent team they faced was Germany who are not the same Germany from the past...but guaranteed they'll be back winning trophies before England will.
Henderson. OMG!
2 subs to take pens. Both miss.
Mount on a yellow. Doesnt bring Grealish on until last minute.
Italia flooding the final third with multiple subs. Gareth does nothing until they scored the most predictable equaliser ever.
Just shiiit management
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgates game management is diabolical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since that's such a confident, categorical statement, how does it apply to e.g. the Germany, Ukraine and Denmark matches and why did we finish them all so strongly?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgates game management is diabolical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since that's such a confident, categorical statement, how does it apply to e.g. the Germany, Ukraine and Denmark matches and why did we finish them all so strongly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they aren't very good teams.
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will acquire that top level experience regardless of who is in charge of England, because they will be playing for elite European clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England players have always played for top teams.
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are remote tribes in Outer Mongolia that knew Italy were gonna equalise. Southgate didn't. The man is a fool.
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are remote tribes in Outer Mongolia that knew Italy were gonna equalise. Southgate didn't. The man is a fool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the f*ck you ever achieved?
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 33 minutes ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Automatic For The People Variant (U21889)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 33 minutes ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you drunk Sizzle you little tuurd?
Good input Sizzle. Care to discuss it rather than just slapping your forehead?
Meh. England was unlucky. Literally a brick wall until the ball hit the post for the equalizer. Penalty is a complete crapshoot. Either you got the luck or you don't.
Two things. I felt that Trips should've stayed on instead of Saka. Subs should've been made 20 minutes earlier than what actually happened.
Sign in if you want to comment
Learning from Italy
Page 1 of 3
posted on 12/7/21
Good article.
One cause for hope is that England's team is young and some of our most talented players were only on the fringes this time due to inexperience. The players who have worked their way through since the FA finally got its act together on youth development have done spectacularly in youth competitions and that tap of significantly improved talent is now beginning to enter the senior team. We were up against a very canny as well as very talented Italian side. Just imagine what the likes of Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Grealish and Sancho can do once they have a few years of top level experience / game management under their belts, in addition to talent.
posted on 12/7/21
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
Good article.
One cause for hope is that England's team is young and some of our most talented players were only on the fringes this time due to inexperience. The players who have worked their way through since the FA finally got its act together on youth development have done spectacularly in youth competitions and that tap of significantly improved talent is now beginning to enter the senior team. We were up against a very canny as well as very talented Italian side. Just imagine what the likes of Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Grealish and Sancho can do once they have a few years of top level experience / game management under their belts, in addition to talent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saka will get alot of experience going forward for sure. Foden, Sancho and Grealish will continue to get scraps under Safegate.
Southgates trustees will always get the nod from the off even if they have off games. Sterling was abysmal in the SF and Final but still gets pushed on us as Pele. Mount has done Nothing of note all Tournament. Both of them just nullified Kane. Last night was a wasted opportunity not heroic defeat.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 45 seconds ago
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean someone with unquestionable pedigree in the game, such as Capello or Sven? It's always a sure bet that success and champagne football will ensue. Southgate isn't beyond criticism, but since he took over a team that got humiliated by Iceland (Iceland!), we've had our best WC since 1990 followed by our best major tournament performance since 1966.
posted on 12/7/21
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 2 minutes ago
Get a decent manager, think we have gone as far as we can with Safegate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree. This generation of talent needs to be utilised properly. Not fed scraps from a by the book over cautious manager that deploys 7/8 defensive players every game. After 20 minutes it was all Italy despite going a goal down.
He had the ruthless streak to hook Grealish off as a sub the other day. Where is his ruthless streak to hook off Pele? He ran into so many blind alleys last night he could've been a homeless guy looking to get out of the rain. Or hooking his prefect schoolboy Mount whose done nothing?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 25 seconds ago
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball retention seems to have been an issue since as far back as the 1970s, we seem to produce a lot of big, powerful midfielders with a decent range of passing but not, dare I say it? Enough Paul Scholes-types, little technically proficient, even under extreme pressure midfielders who dictate things and knit-small, 4-5 yard passes together and move the team up the pitch that way.
posted on 12/7/21
Southgate managed to get every decision wrong. Quite remarkable really.
posted on 12/7/21
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
posted on 12/7/21
Southgates game management is diabolical.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will acquire that top level experience regardless of who is in charge of England, because they will be playing for elite European clubs.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 4 minutes ago
Italy have always produced technical and tactically astute players, as well as top managers. This usually gives them a chance—they often go into tournaments with the 'dark horse' label.
Here in England, we for too long have relied on grit and determination. The emphasis has to change to outsmarting opponents. The fact that we don't produce top managers anymore in this country tells you everything. The Europeans love their tactics and produce innovators, while the English still cling to a basic understanding of football.
I also can't stress enough how important it is to control games at this level. For now, we're missing a midfield that can get hold of the ball and dictate a game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, most top European teams have emphasis on technical ability. If you look at the European power houses, England, Germany, France, Italy and Spain. England are serious under achievers. 2 major tournament finals is pathetic, 1 before yesterday. The other 4 nations have over 20 titles between them and countless finals.
Also I don't think England will have a better chance to win a major tournament. This one they had everything going for them, its like UEFA were like here, its all yours. All games bar one played in Wembley with minimum travel in front of their own fans with hardly any opposition fans, a fairly easy route to the final. Only decent team they faced was Germany who are not the same Germany from the past...but guaranteed they'll be back winning trophies before England will.
posted on 12/7/21
Henderson. OMG!
2 subs to take pens. Both miss.
Mount on a yellow. Doesnt bring Grealish on until last minute.
Italia flooding the final third with multiple subs. Gareth does nothing until they scored the most predictable equaliser ever.
Just shiiit management
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgates game management is diabolical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since that's such a confident, categorical statement, how does it apply to e.g. the Germany, Ukraine and Denmark matches and why did we finish them all so strongly?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 3 minutes ago
Southgates game management is diabolical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since that's such a confident, categorical statement, how does it apply to e.g. the Germany, Ukraine and Denmark matches and why did we finish them all so strongly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they aren't very good teams.
posted on 12/7/21
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Since the change in ethos, I think the production line has begun to change too. The best of the younger players are technically superior and tactically more sophisticated. Now they are starting to get elite football experience they'll start to gain practical experience of game management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Southgate in charge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They will acquire that top level experience regardless of who is in charge of England, because they will be playing for elite European clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England players have always played for top teams.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are remote tribes in Outer Mongolia that knew Italy were gonna equalise. Southgate didn't. The man is a fool.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are remote tribes in Outer Mongolia that knew Italy were gonna equalise. Southgate didn't. The man is a fool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the f*ck you ever achieved?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 33 minutes ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Automatic For The People Variant (U21889)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by TBag. (U11806)
posted 33 minutes ago
It's been an interesting tournament, I've questioned Southgate a lot and he's continued to get us through, perhaps through a lack of quality opposition and some luck though?
Yesterday it seemed like he'd got it right after the Shaw goal, then proceeded to sit on the lead and we all knew how that would go.
I don't think it's as easy as just getting another manager - Southgate understands a lot of what it is to be English and represent your country. On the other hand, we can't have players coming in for a holiday, never really picking up that ruthless winning mentality. I genuinely think we may have the most talented squad in the world, we need to utilize that and Southgate hasn't all tournament
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you drunk Sizzle you little tuurd?
posted on 12/7/21
Good input Sizzle. Care to discuss it rather than just slapping your forehead?
posted on 12/7/21
Top article by OP 5star
posted on 12/7/21
Meh. England was unlucky. Literally a brick wall until the ball hit the post for the equalizer. Penalty is a complete crapshoot. Either you got the luck or you don't.
Two things. I felt that Trips should've stayed on instead of Saka. Subs should've been made 20 minutes earlier than what actually happened.
Page 1 of 3