As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to look. I know what I've read, if you haven't so what
England's problem is we have 2 good defensive mids in Rice and Phillips and a load of good attacking midfielders in Foden, Mount, Grealish etc. but lack a player in between to keep the ball - someone like Jorginho or Modric. That's why we have come undone against Croatia and Italy.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this.
Until we start producing more central midfielders with the quality and temperament to take control in midfield we’ll find life very difficult against some of the stronger sides.
It could be a while before that happens so we’ll need to cut our cloth accordingly. I do think we could strike a better balance between defence and attack, however.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to look. I know what I've read, if you haven't so what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Know what you have read but won share it. OK mate. You take that attitude.
All I will say is that Llots of pundits and experts have questioned Southagtes tactics and selections.
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 3 minutes ago
Shaw was probably the best LB in the tournament, and Walker has been praised (not sure why admittedly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaw got I think 3-4 assists, 1 goal as a LB
Kyle walker played 599 mins (6.7 full games), commited only 1 foul and was dribbled by only once all tournament.
We only conceded two goals, one of which was a fantastic free-kick
Both were exceptional really
Yeah I’m critical of Walker at times but thought he had a very good tournament. Was excellent at supporting the CBs.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but Italy got lucky against Spain. So that's not a great example.
But I agree, it's about control rather than possession—though they do overlap a bit.
The midfield is the final part of the jigsaw. We need some better technical players in there.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this to a degree, but to have a defensive 5 and 2 DMs is over kill.
It just meant we were pinned back without the ability to get out. Even Kane was 35 yards from his own goal. They pressed us aggressively in our third and we coughed it up.
For me it was a combo of being too deep, all XI players at times on the edge of our box, and not having enough pace on the pitch. Surely with a back 5 and 2 DMs there's scope to leave some pace upfield to make them think twice. Like Spurs, a SOn Kane link up in the blink of an eye and you just need a moment or 2 like that to make the opposition start to rethink their tactics. Do they press so high, do they drop off a bit, and then we can start to play out under less pressure. But Southgate's caution saw us retreat and we were pinned back so often.
Although i think we lack a top quality ball playing CM, i think any of our midfield would struggle to escape the Italian press as there were no options for them to hit when under pressure.
For me it all came from the tactics and team selection, and by the time we made changes Italy were in control.
If I am not mistaken Shaw was more productive than all the midfielders combined.
That is where the problem lies.
The question in the op is about two things imo
1. Attitude. I do not think southgate looked at players and decided he had to be that negative. He just decided that to get through he would be negative. If germany could have held out we might have seen this same penalty action and england lose to germany. Who knows.
2. Pickford is not a sweeper keeper. Never will be. If you want to push up then you need one.
After that, yes for me shaw was england player of the tournament far more productive.
The midfield was designed to and required to just close down and work hard and they did. They were not required to be positive and rather were required not to be.
I though southgate was poor with subs as sterling played fine for him. Missed a few but got in the box but the minute a sub was made it was move sterling every time. Southgate felt required to put grealish on but showed his thoughts v denmark by hauling him off the minute we scored.
Kane was god awful in the first 3 games. But he found a little sharpness and once he got a goal played ok dropping off.
I thought saka played great. Thought they whipped him unfairly v denmark. He had the danes on the rack and sterling just completed the job.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
How was Rashford's penalty clever, he missed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you dont understand because you are an idiot
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We aren't ill informed. We have a different opinion. Questioning seems to be your raison d'être
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 10 hours, 19 minutes ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you work out certainly being among the best two teams? You barely left your half for an hour against Italy, a side that Spain absolutely dominated in the semi final. On top of that you had fewer shots in the tournament than Switzerland ffs, they played two games less than you.
On paper it looks like you did good but in reality you were a very dull side to watch and just edged your way to the finals and all that with the huge advantage of six home games.
Also I see talk of how good some of the players are? Just don't see it with some of them, Rice and Phillips are not getting a game for Italy or Spain and almost certainly not getting a game for several others either and if you want to see what a great young player looks like then look at Pedri, dictating the play for Spain, can anyone say that Mount for example does that?
All in all as a neutral it feels like if you are asked did you leave it all on the pitch you guys would have to say 'no, no we didn't, we were scared and played with fear'.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 hours, 53 minutes ago
If I am not mistaken Shaw was more productive than all the midfielders combined.
That is where the problem lies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He impressed me a lot, surprised me as well, only seeing Utd twice a season I fell into the trap of listening to the gags on here about him being a fat feck etc etc but he was quite possibly Englands player of the tournament.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 8 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We aren't ill informed. We have a different opinion. Questioning seems to be your raison d'être
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardly. Southgate messed up the final. Lots can see it.
Really when you look back it comes down to the tale of two posts.
Pickford couldn't get the ball past one for a corner and Rashford couldn't get one past for a goal.
It's a game of inches and on this occasion the inches weren't there.
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 7 hours, 19 minutes ago
Really when you look back it comes down to the tale of two posts.
Pickford couldn't get the ball past one for a corner and Rashford couldn't get one past for a goal.
It's a game of inches and on this occasion the inches weren't there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Story of my life
In the end rashford was.trying to fool the keeper rather than take a good pen.
If he trusts his ability and slots it straight in then it's all in.
England won't win anything playing like that no, we've just never been that good at it even when we've had top class defensive players. Even a world class defensive coach (Capello) still couldn't pull it off.
It's a mental block, but the good thing about Southgate's England is it only appears to be happening when we venture into new territory, now it's happened in a final there's only one step left. I truly mean this when I say I expect us to either (a) win the Qatar WC, or (b) simply get beaten in a competitive match by a better team. It's sound a bit dumb when I say it like that but essentially, since probably the 2002 WC in Japan/Korea, I don't expect England to choke
I'd say we need to get more creative, influential players involved further up the pitch yes.
Phillips is a good player, he's had a good tournament but he is the one I would drop. Both Stones and Maguire are comfortable on the ball at CB and are good passers. We know Phillips (or Henderson) have more ability on the ball than Rice, but Rice is a strong tackler which we would need to accommodate Foden, Grealish, Mount etc.
Pickford
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Rice Foden
Saka Kane Sterling
Going off what I saw at the Euro's anyway, that would be a decent team for me. I'd probably want to slot Henderson in there though if possible.
Every tournament is different.
I would expect england to be seeded in the group stage so its really about luck of the draw then.
The 2018 would cup should have put england v germany right? But germany didnt even get out of the group. The whole side of the draw opened up for us.
England also got a.really easy group then.
We got a nice easy group this tournament too.
In qatar we might draw a horror group or have to play in the hottest part of days (not sure how air con stadiums work) or we could just plain get caught out.
Southgate called it tournament football but scored 2 in 3 games and conceded none to top the group this time round. If you've a make weight 4th place team then qualification comes down to one game usually. Imo southgate was right to make sure you dont lose that first game and went what you have you hold after scoring v Croatia.
However you can get caught out easily.
2022, who knows who will be fit or when or how the draw will go. That's the way it goes.
France assumed they would win the euros and were nowhere. They won the world cup butwanting it most to get to that final.
Sign in if you want to comment
England & Possession
Page 2 of 3
posted on 12/7/21
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to look. I know what I've read, if you haven't so what
posted on 12/7/21
England's problem is we have 2 good defensive mids in Rice and Phillips and a load of good attacking midfielders in Foden, Mount, Grealish etc. but lack a player in between to keep the ball - someone like Jorginho or Modric. That's why we have come undone against Croatia and Italy.
posted on 12/7/21
A bit like United.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this.
Until we start producing more central midfielders with the quality and temperament to take control in midfield we’ll find life very difficult against some of the stronger sides.
It could be a while before that happens so we’ll need to cut our cloth accordingly. I do think we could strike a better balance between defence and attack, however.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to look. I know what I've read, if you haven't so what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Know what you have read but won share it. OK mate. You take that attitude.
All I will say is that Llots of pundits and experts have questioned Southagtes tactics and selections.
posted on 12/7/21
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
posted on 12/7/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 3 minutes ago
Shaw was probably the best LB in the tournament, and Walker has been praised (not sure why admittedly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaw got I think 3-4 assists, 1 goal as a LB
Kyle walker played 599 mins (6.7 full games), commited only 1 foul and was dribbled by only once all tournament.
We only conceded two goals, one of which was a fantastic free-kick
Both were exceptional really
posted on 12/7/21
Yeah I’m critical of Walker at times but thought he had a very good tournament. Was excellent at supporting the CBs.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but Italy got lucky against Spain. So that's not a great example.
But I agree, it's about control rather than possession—though they do overlap a bit.
The midfield is the final part of the jigsaw. We need some better technical players in there.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
As to the OP, I wouldn't be fixated on possession. Italy had approximately the same amount of possession against Spain as England had against Italy. In the group game France had much less possession than Germany while feeling aggrieved to only beat them 1-0. Fergie used to let Arsenal have possession and kill them on the break.
For me the question is whether we control the conditions so that we are more dangerous to the opposing team than they are to us. We can shift the balance to be more attacking but that can come at the price of being more vulnerable to counter-attack. I think Southgate was probably right to conclude that with the players we have (and looking at the history of the sides that have won summer tournaments) playing a compact, defence-first approach was our best bet. To play the more proactive, possession based game I think we'd need different midfielders more akin to the outstanding pass-and-move players Italy and Spain have. Once Bellingham is properly integrated into the England starting team, that could be a step in that direction. Hopefully we have another player or two in that mould emerging.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this to a degree, but to have a defensive 5 and 2 DMs is over kill.
It just meant we were pinned back without the ability to get out. Even Kane was 35 yards from his own goal. They pressed us aggressively in our third and we coughed it up.
For me it was a combo of being too deep, all XI players at times on the edge of our box, and not having enough pace on the pitch. Surely with a back 5 and 2 DMs there's scope to leave some pace upfield to make them think twice. Like Spurs, a SOn Kane link up in the blink of an eye and you just need a moment or 2 like that to make the opposition start to rethink their tactics. Do they press so high, do they drop off a bit, and then we can start to play out under less pressure. But Southgate's caution saw us retreat and we were pinned back so often.
Although i think we lack a top quality ball playing CM, i think any of our midfield would struggle to escape the Italian press as there were no options for them to hit when under pressure.
For me it all came from the tactics and team selection, and by the time we made changes Italy were in control.
posted on 12/7/21
If I am not mistaken Shaw was more productive than all the midfielders combined.
That is where the problem lies.
posted on 12/7/21
The question in the op is about two things imo
1. Attitude. I do not think southgate looked at players and decided he had to be that negative. He just decided that to get through he would be negative. If germany could have held out we might have seen this same penalty action and england lose to germany. Who knows.
2. Pickford is not a sweeper keeper. Never will be. If you want to push up then you need one.
After that, yes for me shaw was england player of the tournament far more productive.
The midfield was designed to and required to just close down and work hard and they did. They were not required to be positive and rather were required not to be.
I though southgate was poor with subs as sterling played fine for him. Missed a few but got in the box but the minute a sub was made it was move sterling every time. Southgate felt required to put grealish on but showed his thoughts v denmark by hauling him off the minute we scored.
Kane was god awful in the first 3 games. But he found a little sharpness and once he got a goal played ok dropping off.
I thought saka played great. Thought they whipped him unfairly v denmark. He had the danes on the rack and sterling just completed the job.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
How was Rashford's penalty clever, he missed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you dont understand because you are an idiot
posted on 12/7/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We aren't ill informed. We have a different opinion. Questioning seems to be your raison d'être
posted on 13/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 10 hours, 19 minutes ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you work out certainly being among the best two teams? You barely left your half for an hour against Italy, a side that Spain absolutely dominated in the semi final. On top of that you had fewer shots in the tournament than Switzerland ffs, they played two games less than you.
On paper it looks like you did good but in reality you were a very dull side to watch and just edged your way to the finals and all that with the huge advantage of six home games.
Also I see talk of how good some of the players are? Just don't see it with some of them, Rice and Phillips are not getting a game for Italy or Spain and almost certainly not getting a game for several others either and if you want to see what a great young player looks like then look at Pedri, dictating the play for Spain, can anyone say that Mount for example does that?
All in all as a neutral it feels like if you are asked did you leave it all on the pitch you guys would have to say 'no, no we didn't, we were scared and played with fear'.
posted on 13/7/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 hours, 53 minutes ago
If I am not mistaken Shaw was more productive than all the midfielders combined.
That is where the problem lies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He impressed me a lot, surprised me as well, only seeing Utd twice a season I fell into the trap of listening to the gags on here about him being a fat feck etc etc but he was quite possibly Englands player of the tournament.
posted on 13/7/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 8 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
RDD. Everyone knows your position on Southgate and Ole, that they are not top managers, which is fair enough. But you take every opportunity to take digs at them, even if they've done well, which Gareth has
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Iv commented on Southgate no more than others, and mostly to question the ill informed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We aren't ill informed. We have a different opinion. Questioning seems to be your raison d'être
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardly. Southgate messed up the final. Lots can see it.
posted on 13/7/21
Really when you look back it comes down to the tale of two posts.
Pickford couldn't get the ball past one for a corner and Rashford couldn't get one past for a goal.
It's a game of inches and on this occasion the inches weren't there.
posted on 13/7/21
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 7 hours, 19 minutes ago
Really when you look back it comes down to the tale of two posts.
Pickford couldn't get the ball past one for a corner and Rashford couldn't get one past for a goal.
It's a game of inches and on this occasion the inches weren't there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Story of my life
posted on 13/7/21
In the end rashford was.trying to fool the keeper rather than take a good pen.
If he trusts his ability and slots it straight in then it's all in.
posted on 14/7/21
England won't win anything playing like that no, we've just never been that good at it even when we've had top class defensive players. Even a world class defensive coach (Capello) still couldn't pull it off.
It's a mental block, but the good thing about Southgate's England is it only appears to be happening when we venture into new territory, now it's happened in a final there's only one step left. I truly mean this when I say I expect us to either (a) win the Qatar WC, or (b) simply get beaten in a competitive match by a better team. It's sound a bit dumb when I say it like that but essentially, since probably the 2002 WC in Japan/Korea, I don't expect England to choke
posted on 14/7/21
I'd say we need to get more creative, influential players involved further up the pitch yes.
Phillips is a good player, he's had a good tournament but he is the one I would drop. Both Stones and Maguire are comfortable on the ball at CB and are good passers. We know Phillips (or Henderson) have more ability on the ball than Rice, but Rice is a strong tackler which we would need to accommodate Foden, Grealish, Mount etc.
Pickford
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Rice Foden
Saka Kane Sterling
Going off what I saw at the Euro's anyway, that would be a decent team for me. I'd probably want to slot Henderson in there though if possible.
posted on 14/7/21
Every tournament is different.
I would expect england to be seeded in the group stage so its really about luck of the draw then.
The 2018 would cup should have put england v germany right? But germany didnt even get out of the group. The whole side of the draw opened up for us.
England also got a.really easy group then.
We got a nice easy group this tournament too.
In qatar we might draw a horror group or have to play in the hottest part of days (not sure how air con stadiums work) or we could just plain get caught out.
Southgate called it tournament football but scored 2 in 3 games and conceded none to top the group this time round. If you've a make weight 4th place team then qualification comes down to one game usually. Imo southgate was right to make sure you dont lose that first game and went what you have you hold after scoring v Croatia.
However you can get caught out easily.
2022, who knows who will be fit or when or how the draw will go. That's the way it goes.
France assumed they would win the euros and were nowhere. They won the world cup butwanting it most to get to that final.
Page 2 of 3