My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 18 seconds ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But apart from that, it's a low risk signing. He was very promising a couple of years back but his development has slowed recently. Maybe a change of waters will do him good.
Posted this on the Haven a while ago. For those of you who don't go there:
Interesting interview with Saul in Marca this morning. Only available in Spanish for now, though I imagine it'll be translated into English later.
He basically says that he owes everything he's achieved in football to Simeone and the club, but that as much as he tried, during training he simply couldn't get his head into playing full back, which was the latest position El Cholo had him playing.
Asked if Chelsea had made him any promises, he said that the only promise would be that he'd be able to train in CM. Playing is another matter - he understands competition is very tough and he'll have to earn his place - but that mentally he needed to return to his old routines.
Asked about the possible purchase option, he basically says he wants to try this new experience and take things one step at a time. He wants to overcome the frustrations and sense of stagnation he's had for the past couple of years, and hopefully rediscover his former self.
Basically seems like Simeone burnt him out. Saul's always been a hard worker and comes from a footballing family - his dad and two elder brothers all pros - so much like Alonso, it's an environment he knows from a young age. That ought to help him.
The story about his ruptured kidney is interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/01/atletico-madrid-saul-niguez-real-madrid-career-over
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m surprised you loaned Gilmour, he’s looked class every time I’ve seen him play. Saul is a good signing though, good player..
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can both come back next June with a season of PL experience under their belts.
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer is quite simple.
Niguez will be trusted and afforded the time Gilmour and Gallagher wouldn't, due to being a seasoned pro.
How have people not understood this with all the managers we've had over the years?? Naive.
Tuchel has/had the power to keep Gilmour and assure him that he'll play a substantial amount of matches....
Tuchel made it clear to Gilmour and in public on numerous occasions that he was the clear 4th midfield option, with little to no chance of challenging the pecking order...regardless of how he performs.
They can have stinkers and still be ahead, with Gilmour not getting a look-in.
Gilmour only made 5 appearances under Tuchel last season (3 in league & 2 in FA Cup), 1 of which was subbed off at HT when his midfield partner that day was by far worse performing. He ended up playing the full-match...case in point.
Gilmour would essentially be at the club just to train.
Why on earth would Gilmour stay?
Chalobah is already the case study of how Tuchel is not picking team on merit (as if that wasn't evident last season).
Done everything you would possibly want to secure that CB spot for the time being, yet the minute Azpi who isn't as good is fit...finds himself benched.
Had Kounde (who Tuchel wanted) signed, Chalobah would have been banished into the abyss.
The emergence of Chalobah and array of options (Azpi, Chalobah, Christensen, James, Rudiger, Silva) that we already have at CB should have been enough to stop any pursuit of Kounde for this window but you know managers that aren't really invested in youth, will always value experience. Even though the evidence shows that the logical step would be to stick with standout youth.
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
The only complaint I have with this deal is Saul's so connected to Atletico & Simeone that if he does rediscover his form he might not wanna join permanently even if we activate the buy clause.
Other than that nothing but positives here. I've only seen him a few times but he's just got that aura of a classy player. Does all the nitty gritty Simeone stuff but you can tell he could do the tiki taka stuff very happily. I can't believe we now have a midfield of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic & Saul - the days of Bakayoko & Drinkwater were only four years ago
comment by Superb - Release the Lukraken (U6486)
posted 3 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can both come back next June with a season of PL experience under their belts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is exactly my thought too and if Saul is as good as many think then hell be adequate cover for kante with the added bonus of his fantastic long range goals, something we have missed since DD and Frank.
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reece and Azpi are not centre backs they are fullbacks with the ability to fill in at centre back, much prefer Kounde as a 22 year old who could form a partnership with Chalobah for a decade. I think it has shown that with Sevilles openly blatant attempt to fleece Chelsea and our refusel to get shafted like that shows that the club have faith in Chalobah to come in and do a job so we can get Kounde cheaper either in jan or next summer. Smart move i think.
comment by vavarising (U21731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reece and Azpi are not centre backs they are fullbacks with the ability to fill in at centre back, much prefer Kounde as a 22 year old who could form a partnership with Chalobah for a decade. I think it has shown that with Sevilles openly blatant attempt to fleece Chelsea and our refusel to get shafted like that shows that the club have faith in Chalobah to come in and do a job so we can get Kounde cheaper either in jan or next summer. Smart move i think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but as a back 3 you don't need traditional centre-backs. You have your position/sweeper whatever you want to call him and two players with the ability to step into midfield or wide areas. Pure centre backs are not usually able to do this although Rudiger isn't bad.
Think the knowledge Kounde probably wasn't gunna happen is what cut off the Hudson-Odoi loan - cos Dortmund would've been nothing but good for him/couldn't hand pick a better club.
Azpi & James between them (depending on Tuchel's preferences) account for the extra CB, which means CHO has to account for the potential loss at RWB if one of them or the other CB's get injured
This is correct but who would you rather have in that 3 Azpi or Chalobah. Trev is very much like Tomori in the sense that he can play too and is quick but still a threat in the air- i know azpi is no slouch in that area too but he is the exception too the rule, Thiago is mostly here for his experience this season and probaly his last(you never know with him) and will be traing the likes of Trev and hopefully Kounde after Jan.
A great signing , probably above what you’d expect for a fourth midfielder. Even if he does well and goes you’d hope Gilmour orGallagher can then come in and take over
comment by vavarising (U21731)
posted 3 hours, 39 minutes ago
This is correct but who would you rather have in that 3 Azpi or Chalobah. Trev is very much like Tomori in the sense that he can play too and is quick but still a threat in the air- i know azpi is no slouch in that area too but he is the exception too the rule, Thiago is mostly here for his experience this season and probaly his last(you never know with him) and will be traing the likes of Trev and hopefully Kounde after Jan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Chalobah will play cup games and home games against teams we are expected to beat easily and depending on his development and performance will get more trust and more minutes from Tuchel.
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Saul
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posted on 1/9/21
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 18 seconds ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But apart from that, it's a low risk signing. He was very promising a couple of years back but his development has slowed recently. Maybe a change of waters will do him good.
posted on 1/9/21
Posted this on the Haven a while ago. For those of you who don't go there:
Interesting interview with Saul in Marca this morning. Only available in Spanish for now, though I imagine it'll be translated into English later.
He basically says that he owes everything he's achieved in football to Simeone and the club, but that as much as he tried, during training he simply couldn't get his head into playing full back, which was the latest position El Cholo had him playing.
Asked if Chelsea had made him any promises, he said that the only promise would be that he'd be able to train in CM. Playing is another matter - he understands competition is very tough and he'll have to earn his place - but that mentally he needed to return to his old routines.
posted on 1/9/21
Asked about the possible purchase option, he basically says he wants to try this new experience and take things one step at a time. He wants to overcome the frustrations and sense of stagnation he's had for the past couple of years, and hopefully rediscover his former self.
Basically seems like Simeone burnt him out. Saul's always been a hard worker and comes from a footballing family - his dad and two elder brothers all pros - so much like Alonso, it's an environment he knows from a young age. That ought to help him.
The story about his ruptured kidney is interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/01/atletico-madrid-saul-niguez-real-madrid-career-over
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m surprised you loaned Gilmour, he’s looked class every time I’ve seen him play. Saul is a good signing though, good player..
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can both come back next June with a season of PL experience under their belts.
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer is quite simple.
Niguez will be trusted and afforded the time Gilmour and Gallagher wouldn't, due to being a seasoned pro.
How have people not understood this with all the managers we've had over the years?? Naive.
Tuchel has/had the power to keep Gilmour and assure him that he'll play a substantial amount of matches....
Tuchel made it clear to Gilmour and in public on numerous occasions that he was the clear 4th midfield option, with little to no chance of challenging the pecking order...regardless of how he performs.
They can have stinkers and still be ahead, with Gilmour not getting a look-in.
Gilmour only made 5 appearances under Tuchel last season (3 in league & 2 in FA Cup), 1 of which was subbed off at HT when his midfield partner that day was by far worse performing. He ended up playing the full-match...case in point.
Gilmour would essentially be at the club just to train.
Why on earth would Gilmour stay?
Chalobah is already the case study of how Tuchel is not picking team on merit (as if that wasn't evident last season).
Done everything you would possibly want to secure that CB spot for the time being, yet the minute Azpi who isn't as good is fit...finds himself benched.
Had Kounde (who Tuchel wanted) signed, Chalobah would have been banished into the abyss.
The emergence of Chalobah and array of options (Azpi, Chalobah, Christensen, James, Rudiger, Silva) that we already have at CB should have been enough to stop any pursuit of Kounde for this window but you know managers that aren't really invested in youth, will always value experience. Even though the evidence shows that the logical step would be to stick with standout youth.
posted on 1/9/21
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
posted on 1/9/21
The only complaint I have with this deal is Saul's so connected to Atletico & Simeone that if he does rediscover his form he might not wanna join permanently even if we activate the buy clause.
Other than that nothing but positives here. I've only seen him a few times but he's just got that aura of a classy player. Does all the nitty gritty Simeone stuff but you can tell he could do the tiki taka stuff very happily. I can't believe we now have a midfield of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic & Saul - the days of Bakayoko & Drinkwater were only four years ago
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Superb - Release the Lukraken (U6486)
posted 3 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
My problem is that if he plays say, 20 games, wouldn't we have been better off keeping either Gilmour or Gallagher and giving them the game time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can both come back next June with a season of PL experience under their belts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is exactly my thought too and if Saul is as good as many think then hell be adequate cover for kante with the added bonus of his fantastic long range goals, something we have missed since DD and Frank.
posted on 1/9/21
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reece and Azpi are not centre backs they are fullbacks with the ability to fill in at centre back, much prefer Kounde as a 22 year old who could form a partnership with Chalobah for a decade. I think it has shown that with Sevilles openly blatant attempt to fleece Chelsea and our refusel to get shafted like that shows that the club have faith in Chalobah to come in and do a job so we can get Kounde cheaper either in jan or next summer. Smart move i think.
posted on 1/9/21
comment by vavarising (U21731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
Chalobah was never going to play away against Arsenal or Liverpool but I expect him to be picked ahead of Silva in less taxing games. People are saying we lack a defender after letting Zouma go but we have
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpilicueta
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
James
who can all play as part of a back 3. Kounde would have been nice but I'm hoping Chalobah makes his mark - the same as I am hoping that one of our academy midfielders steps up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reece and Azpi are not centre backs they are fullbacks with the ability to fill in at centre back, much prefer Kounde as a 22 year old who could form a partnership with Chalobah for a decade. I think it has shown that with Sevilles openly blatant attempt to fleece Chelsea and our refusel to get shafted like that shows that the club have faith in Chalobah to come in and do a job so we can get Kounde cheaper either in jan or next summer. Smart move i think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but as a back 3 you don't need traditional centre-backs. You have your position/sweeper whatever you want to call him and two players with the ability to step into midfield or wide areas. Pure centre backs are not usually able to do this although Rudiger isn't bad.
posted on 1/9/21
Think the knowledge Kounde probably wasn't gunna happen is what cut off the Hudson-Odoi loan - cos Dortmund would've been nothing but good for him/couldn't hand pick a better club.
Azpi & James between them (depending on Tuchel's preferences) account for the extra CB, which means CHO has to account for the potential loss at RWB if one of them or the other CB's get injured
posted on 1/9/21
This is correct but who would you rather have in that 3 Azpi or Chalobah. Trev is very much like Tomori in the sense that he can play too and is quick but still a threat in the air- i know azpi is no slouch in that area too but he is the exception too the rule, Thiago is mostly here for his experience this season and probaly his last(you never know with him) and will be traing the likes of Trev and hopefully Kounde after Jan.
posted on 1/9/21
A great signing , probably above what you’d expect for a fourth midfielder. Even if he does well and goes you’d hope Gilmour orGallagher can then come in and take over
posted on 1/9/21
comment by vavarising (U21731)
posted 3 hours, 39 minutes ago
This is correct but who would you rather have in that 3 Azpi or Chalobah. Trev is very much like Tomori in the sense that he can play too and is quick but still a threat in the air- i know azpi is no slouch in that area too but he is the exception too the rule, Thiago is mostly here for his experience this season and probaly his last(you never know with him) and will be traing the likes of Trev and hopefully Kounde after Jan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Chalobah will play cup games and home games against teams we are expected to beat easily and depending on his development and performance will get more trust and more minutes from Tuchel.
Page 1 of 1