Very eloquently put as usual.
I’m hardly in a position of influence here having watched only “live” or highlights of tv matches, in addition to feeding off the quips on dublin’s all-action column. I will leave that to the dwindling faithful. From what I gather though, it is Soyuncu’s poor form that is a major factor. I’ve never rated Bertrand and I don’t know why we bought him to be quite honest with you. I shall leave it there.
Step up to microphone the next man…
You are having a decent season to be fair. You can’t keep over achieving in this league year after year. A couple of seasons that end with you greater than the sum of your parts, is all you can hope for.
Some good lols in your post Joby but the biggest joke of all is our defending at the minute. Rodgers came with the label that his teams can’t defend but this is wow territory at the minute.
We can’t defend against teams that press. We can’t defend against counter attack. And we certainly can’t defend corners if our lives depended on it!
What is the answer? Well it’s cliche time - we defend as a team. What was clear in the game yesterday is that when we were working well as a unit in the second half and pressing in the right places the defence looked fine. Ndidi was breaking up play, we were creating turnovers in midfield and our forward 3 were making Southampton panic and drop.
Compare that to the first half though, when Southampton walked through our high press, wandered past a non-existent Soumare and drove at an exposed back 4. That’s our current problem.
I actually don’t blame Soyuncu for that. He has always been aggressive and often caught out but when there’s cover it’s fine. Right now there’s no cover, just more holes.
The solution? As you’ve shown Joby, we can’t just go back 5 until we have players FIFA’s that didn’t work either. For me the biggest problem in the current formation is Soumare so let’s start with replacing him. Hopefully with Tielemans!
Aside from this I want us to stick to a back 4 so we desperately need Justin and Fofana back. Justin seems to get the best out of Barnes ahead of him and Fofana is just unbelievable!
That’s my best answer. We need players back, we need to learn when and where to press, and we need to get better protection for the back 4 by dropping Soumare.
As for defending corners, well I’m off the do a joint degree in quantum physics and general relativity.
Nobody mentions the stupid zonal marking where we mark a blade of grass and ignore the opposition.
It doesn’t work, everyone knows it doesn’t work but blinkered Brendan persists with it.
Rodgers 3rd season syndrome.
You've got a fair few injuries to a lot of important players and I know Soyuncu is pretty close to rock bottom at the moment in terms of form.
Having said that, you've signed Vestergaard and Bertrand this summer, both from Southampton. Southampton's defence has hardly been great in recent memory and you've signed half of their back 4. I'm not saying they are poor players, but Southampton have regularly been linked with a LB over the last couple of summers to replace Bertrand, it eventually came this summer when his contract was up and Vestergaard has been pretty solid but, again, not outstanding.
They are good squad players for you, maybe Vestergaard can make the step into your defence when all of your defenders are fit (Evans, Soyuncu, Fofana) in place of one who is out of form, but they can't both be regulars in the side really as they have been playing at a bottom half team for the last couple of seasons with a less than great defence. Obviously it's a different team with a different style, but it just doesn't look good on paper anyway.
There has undoubtedly been an issue with injuries, but right now I see two major issues - terrible set-piece defending and too many individuals further up the pitch not engaged in defending as a team.
Set pieces needs a change in approach. We're not nearly aggressive enough at attacking the ball when defending set pieces, so the solution might be as simple as to properly use some physicality and risk the odd penalty instead of just standing and watching them score week after week. If that's not on the table, either different marking systems or going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
For the problem with engagement in defending, that's partly an attitude thing and partly a personnel thing. As much as he's maligned, Perez in engaged with defending. So is Albrighton. Lookman not so much, Barnes barely even understands there is such a thing as defending. And then there's Soumare. I thought for a while that he looked like a talent that needed some time to settle and overcome his obvious issues. I'm now horribly suspicious that he's a player who just doesn't have any interest in the game when he doesn't have the ball at his feet. Just watch his movement off the ball, whether we're in possession or not. He ambles, rarely gets into a sprint and only acts and gives some token effort when he realises - usually two seconds too late - that it was his responsibility to do something. He's being absolutely carried, and it's no wonder that the team's constantly under pressure when we have someone like that playing in central midfield.
Our signings this summer just gone have been largely poor. If I was at the top of the club hierarchy, I'd be asking serious questions about recruitment.
Soumare came with all the right reviews Dunge, it just seems that he may be a good example of where the lower intensity of the French league masked some of the glaring issues you’ve flagged.
Like all new players, I won’t write him off for a season, but boy does he need to up his fitness and physicality if he’s going to succeed in this league. He’s like a poor man’s Pogba currently but with less rubbish hair.
Dunge: re going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
I couldn’t agree more. With 3 lurking near the half way line, that means at least 3 of the opposition have to stay back, which gives more space in the six yard box for Kasper to come and catch crosses. Dream on. Perhaps it’s time for Ward to get a sniff.
And as for Soumare, given his youth, he clearly should be a lot more mobile than he has shown to date. In Tielemans absence, Dewsbury-Hall is far more capable and should be starting.
Joby - a brilliantly scripted post; well said.
And then there's Soumare. I thought for a while that he looked like a talent that needed some time to settle and overcome his obvious issues. I'm now horribly suspicious that he's a player who just doesn't have any interest in the game when he doesn't have the ball at his feet. Just watch his movement off the ball, whether we're in possession or not. He ambles, rarely gets into a sprint and only acts and gives some token effort when he realises - usually two seconds too late - that it was his responsibility to do something. He's being absolutely carried, and it's no wonder that the team's constantly under pressure when we have someone like that playing in central midfield.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This. Just this.
comment by old warwick fox (U11640)
posted 49 minutes ago
Dunge: re going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
I couldn’t agree more. With 3 lurking near the half way line, that means at least 3 of the opposition have to stay back, which gives more space in the six yard box for Kasper to come and catch crosses. Dream on. Perhaps it’s time for Ward to get a sniff.
And as for Soumare, given his youth, he clearly should be a lot more mobile than he has shown to date. In Tielemans absence, Dewsbury-Hall is far more capable and should be starting.
Joby - a brilliantly scripted post; well said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We do not need to put three players on the half way line. Just the sight of Vardy hovering around the centre spot would be sufficient to terrify most defences into leaving several of their better, potentially taller, defenders back. Preferable for them to be occupied away from our goal than attacking it.
Add in Barnes as well if you like, given that he is useless at defending.
We were hopeless last night until KDH came on for Soumare, afterwards we mostly dominated the game. Unfortunately I think that says everything you need to know about the performance of our latest midfield acquisition. Let's be kind and say he needs some more time to come to terms with the speed and intensity of the Premier League.
At least we managed to show enough spirit to come back twice from a deficit, allowing a reasonable trip back on the bus getting back in the early hours this morning!
Things yer maw asked when you reached ‘that’ age
Some good suggestions here.
Step one. Drop Soumare and replace him with KDH. I’ve not been convinced by the latter either, but it’s reached that “may as well give him a try” stage
Step Two. Get Tielemans back fit ASAP
Step Three. Try something different in the defence. Go man to man or leave one or two upfield. We’ve got good candidates in Barnes and Vardy to do that job
Step Four. Hope we get the likes of Justin, Fofana and Ricardo back fit ASAP
It’s interesting that nobody is suggesting we change personnel with the likes of Vestergaard and Bertrand available to come in. What wasteful signings they were!
I wonder if we should swallow some pride and do something in January. Maybe offer £15m and Jannik Vestergaard for Tarkowski from Burnley - or maybe £10m without JV.
comment by TheBlackCountry (U22512)
posted 8 hours, 30 minutes ago
You are having a decent season to be fair. You can’t keep over achieving in this league year after year. A couple of seasons that end with you greater than the sum of your parts, is all you can hope for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s always helpful when fans of other teams come onto our board to tell us that we should just be grateful for what we’ve got - with no further analysis. With that level of insight you should really consider a future career as a pundit on Sky Sports in you’re not already.
With our unprecedented and horrendous run of injuries you could argue we over achieved last season and this season (currently 8th) is around where we should be. If you actually watched our matches you’d know that there is a massive difference in form of individual players between this and last season though.
With a fully fit squad (Tielemans, Ricardo, Fofana and Justin all back) and no further injuries allowing for consistency of selection I wouldn’t just be hoping that we’d be challenging for top six, but expecting it. That may not be the case after next summer when we’re likely to lose more of our best players (particularly Tielemans).
There are three really good teams in this league, but really not that much between the rest down to about 15th. Leicester City fans won’t be the only set of fans bemoaning a lack of consistency and luck with injuries.
But let’s just all stick to our position in the food chain eh and not let any thoughts of further ambition trouble us - even if we do have potentially the best squad in our entire history and a rare opportunity to capitalise.
I thought it was supposed to Happen when Evans returned?
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posted on 2/12/21
Very eloquently put as usual.
I’m hardly in a position of influence here having watched only “live” or highlights of tv matches, in addition to feeding off the quips on dublin’s all-action column. I will leave that to the dwindling faithful. From what I gather though, it is Soyuncu’s poor form that is a major factor. I’ve never rated Bertrand and I don’t know why we bought him to be quite honest with you. I shall leave it there.
Step up to microphone the next man…
posted on 2/12/21
You are having a decent season to be fair. You can’t keep over achieving in this league year after year. A couple of seasons that end with you greater than the sum of your parts, is all you can hope for.
posted on 2/12/21
Some good lols in your post Joby but the biggest joke of all is our defending at the minute. Rodgers came with the label that his teams can’t defend but this is wow territory at the minute.
We can’t defend against teams that press. We can’t defend against counter attack. And we certainly can’t defend corners if our lives depended on it!
What is the answer? Well it’s cliche time - we defend as a team. What was clear in the game yesterday is that when we were working well as a unit in the second half and pressing in the right places the defence looked fine. Ndidi was breaking up play, we were creating turnovers in midfield and our forward 3 were making Southampton panic and drop.
Compare that to the first half though, when Southampton walked through our high press, wandered past a non-existent Soumare and drove at an exposed back 4. That’s our current problem.
I actually don’t blame Soyuncu for that. He has always been aggressive and often caught out but when there’s cover it’s fine. Right now there’s no cover, just more holes.
The solution? As you’ve shown Joby, we can’t just go back 5 until we have players FIFA’s that didn’t work either. For me the biggest problem in the current formation is Soumare so let’s start with replacing him. Hopefully with Tielemans!
Aside from this I want us to stick to a back 4 so we desperately need Justin and Fofana back. Justin seems to get the best out of Barnes ahead of him and Fofana is just unbelievable!
That’s my best answer. We need players back, we need to learn when and where to press, and we need to get better protection for the back 4 by dropping Soumare.
As for defending corners, well I’m off the do a joint degree in quantum physics and general relativity.
posted on 2/12/21
Nobody mentions the stupid zonal marking where we mark a blade of grass and ignore the opposition.
It doesn’t work, everyone knows it doesn’t work but blinkered Brendan persists with it.
posted on 2/12/21
Rodgers 3rd season syndrome.
posted on 2/12/21
You've got a fair few injuries to a lot of important players and I know Soyuncu is pretty close to rock bottom at the moment in terms of form.
Having said that, you've signed Vestergaard and Bertrand this summer, both from Southampton. Southampton's defence has hardly been great in recent memory and you've signed half of their back 4. I'm not saying they are poor players, but Southampton have regularly been linked with a LB over the last couple of summers to replace Bertrand, it eventually came this summer when his contract was up and Vestergaard has been pretty solid but, again, not outstanding.
They are good squad players for you, maybe Vestergaard can make the step into your defence when all of your defenders are fit (Evans, Soyuncu, Fofana) in place of one who is out of form, but they can't both be regulars in the side really as they have been playing at a bottom half team for the last couple of seasons with a less than great defence. Obviously it's a different team with a different style, but it just doesn't look good on paper anyway.
posted on 2/12/21
There has undoubtedly been an issue with injuries, but right now I see two major issues - terrible set-piece defending and too many individuals further up the pitch not engaged in defending as a team.
Set pieces needs a change in approach. We're not nearly aggressive enough at attacking the ball when defending set pieces, so the solution might be as simple as to properly use some physicality and risk the odd penalty instead of just standing and watching them score week after week. If that's not on the table, either different marking systems or going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
For the problem with engagement in defending, that's partly an attitude thing and partly a personnel thing. As much as he's maligned, Perez in engaged with defending. So is Albrighton. Lookman not so much, Barnes barely even understands there is such a thing as defending. And then there's Soumare. I thought for a while that he looked like a talent that needed some time to settle and overcome his obvious issues. I'm now horribly suspicious that he's a player who just doesn't have any interest in the game when he doesn't have the ball at his feet. Just watch his movement off the ball, whether we're in possession or not. He ambles, rarely gets into a sprint and only acts and gives some token effort when he realises - usually two seconds too late - that it was his responsibility to do something. He's being absolutely carried, and it's no wonder that the team's constantly under pressure when we have someone like that playing in central midfield.
Our signings this summer just gone have been largely poor. If I was at the top of the club hierarchy, I'd be asking serious questions about recruitment.
posted on 2/12/21
Soumare came with all the right reviews Dunge, it just seems that he may be a good example of where the lower intensity of the French league masked some of the glaring issues you’ve flagged.
Like all new players, I won’t write him off for a season, but boy does he need to up his fitness and physicality if he’s going to succeed in this league. He’s like a poor man’s Pogba currently but with less rubbish hair.
posted on 2/12/21
Dunge: re going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
I couldn’t agree more. With 3 lurking near the half way line, that means at least 3 of the opposition have to stay back, which gives more space in the six yard box for Kasper to come and catch crosses. Dream on. Perhaps it’s time for Ward to get a sniff.
And as for Soumare, given his youth, he clearly should be a lot more mobile than he has shown to date. In Tielemans absence, Dewsbury-Hall is far more capable and should be starting.
Joby - a brilliantly scripted post; well said.
posted on 2/12/21
And then there's Soumare. I thought for a while that he looked like a talent that needed some time to settle and overcome his obvious issues. I'm now horribly suspicious that he's a player who just doesn't have any interest in the game when he doesn't have the ball at his feet. Just watch his movement off the ball, whether we're in possession or not. He ambles, rarely gets into a sprint and only acts and gives some token effort when he realises - usually two seconds too late - that it was his responsibility to do something. He's being absolutely carried, and it's no wonder that the team's constantly under pressure when we have someone like that playing in central midfield.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This. Just this.
posted on 2/12/21
comment by old warwick fox (U11640)
posted 49 minutes ago
Dunge: re going "full Claudio" and leaving 3 men up the field to put the pressure on delivery. Considering that we're conceding anyway, the latter feels like a "we might as well" option.
I couldn’t agree more. With 3 lurking near the half way line, that means at least 3 of the opposition have to stay back, which gives more space in the six yard box for Kasper to come and catch crosses. Dream on. Perhaps it’s time for Ward to get a sniff.
And as for Soumare, given his youth, he clearly should be a lot more mobile than he has shown to date. In Tielemans absence, Dewsbury-Hall is far more capable and should be starting.
Joby - a brilliantly scripted post; well said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We do not need to put three players on the half way line. Just the sight of Vardy hovering around the centre spot would be sufficient to terrify most defences into leaving several of their better, potentially taller, defenders back. Preferable for them to be occupied away from our goal than attacking it.
Add in Barnes as well if you like, given that he is useless at defending.
We were hopeless last night until KDH came on for Soumare, afterwards we mostly dominated the game. Unfortunately I think that says everything you need to know about the performance of our latest midfield acquisition. Let's be kind and say he needs some more time to come to terms with the speed and intensity of the Premier League.
At least we managed to show enough spirit to come back twice from a deficit, allowing a reasonable trip back on the bus getting back in the early hours this morning!
posted on 2/12/21
Things yer maw asked when you reached ‘that’ age
posted on 2/12/21
Some good suggestions here.
Step one. Drop Soumare and replace him with KDH. I’ve not been convinced by the latter either, but it’s reached that “may as well give him a try” stage
Step Two. Get Tielemans back fit ASAP
Step Three. Try something different in the defence. Go man to man or leave one or two upfield. We’ve got good candidates in Barnes and Vardy to do that job
Step Four. Hope we get the likes of Justin, Fofana and Ricardo back fit ASAP
It’s interesting that nobody is suggesting we change personnel with the likes of Vestergaard and Bertrand available to come in. What wasteful signings they were!
I wonder if we should swallow some pride and do something in January. Maybe offer £15m and Jannik Vestergaard for Tarkowski from Burnley - or maybe £10m without JV.
posted on 2/12/21
comment by TheBlackCountry (U22512)
posted 8 hours, 30 minutes ago
You are having a decent season to be fair. You can’t keep over achieving in this league year after year. A couple of seasons that end with you greater than the sum of your parts, is all you can hope for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s always helpful when fans of other teams come onto our board to tell us that we should just be grateful for what we’ve got - with no further analysis. With that level of insight you should really consider a future career as a pundit on Sky Sports in you’re not already.
With our unprecedented and horrendous run of injuries you could argue we over achieved last season and this season (currently 8th) is around where we should be. If you actually watched our matches you’d know that there is a massive difference in form of individual players between this and last season though.
With a fully fit squad (Tielemans, Ricardo, Fofana and Justin all back) and no further injuries allowing for consistency of selection I wouldn’t just be hoping that we’d be challenging for top six, but expecting it. That may not be the case after next summer when we’re likely to lose more of our best players (particularly Tielemans).
There are three really good teams in this league, but really not that much between the rest down to about 15th. Leicester City fans won’t be the only set of fans bemoaning a lack of consistency and luck with injuries.
But let’s just all stick to our position in the food chain eh and not let any thoughts of further ambition trouble us - even if we do have potentially the best squad in our entire history and a rare opportunity to capitalise.
posted on 2/12/21
Yes, when fofana returns
posted on 3/12/21
I thought it was supposed to Happen when Evans returned?
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