Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 6 minutes ago
What is damning is the race director changed his mind on lapped cars after Horner came on the radio and in doing so forgot about Sainz lol.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He needed to change his mind. You could tell by the drivers reactions on the radio how much of a controversy it would of been if they were all kept in position behind the S/C. I've always rated Alonso.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Masi acted slowly. Alonso asked why aren't they passing the leader. The total SC was 5 laps, the average SC laps are 4 in a race.
As much as I think Masi fecked up, it is an awful position to be in - need to make the right call with both team bosses screaming at you. They should stop the pitwall communication with the RD unless they are asked to respond.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alonso asked where Max was. When he got told he was 4 cars back he said he should be 2 in front Too right n'all. Yeah, they've got to stop the lobbying mid-race. The RD just needs to get his head down.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 22 minutes ago
Russians gonna be subscribing to the F1 Athletic equivalent and be an expert in no time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm going to try to resist the urge to get drawn into it.
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 46 minutes ago
A modern day F1 car has the same length and width as a Rolls-Royce LWB Phantom. And the turning radius of a bin lorry.
Gone up in length by at least 2 feet over the past decade, while the various racing tracks basically stayed the same.
Only way to keep this up is by adding more administrative waffle and silly rules.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read that and thought ballacks. Googled it and your right. Why are they so much bigger now? 😱
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's crazy. People don't realise just how large these modern cars are until you see them in the flesh.
I guess some of it has to do with providing increased crumple-zones for the drivers. Then we also had a significant increase in mandated weight limits to allow for the heavier hybrid systems.
All perfectly understandable. But the thing that ruins it all is the dramatic increase in wheelbases. Might as well be racing in full size Transit vans.
When people hear the word "corruption" they think of one person paying off another for a particular result. However, sport these days is being corrupted by need for the "best result for TV and sponsors". A good story is far better for the money men in sport than Hamilton winning yet another title crawling round the track behind the safety car. Netflix has a series to promote - it is far easier when you have controversy.
You have to wonder how many situations at football clubs taking part in Amazons series are contrived for the cameras!
All top level sport suffers from corruption. Enjoy it for what it is.
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been the issue.
Toto told the RD to not bring out the saftey car. Absolute nonsense that the RD can be spoken to like that during a race.
It's the fact all the cars should have been allowed to unlap themselves before the safety car came in but they only allowed the ones between Hamilton and Max
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
The gamesmanship on both sides has been ridiculous, but that's often the case in F1. It has severely exposed the ineptitude of the stewards which undoubtedly needs to be looked at next season.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 25 minutes ago
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's part of the fun. F1 is a procession most seasons. A bit of rain and and a safety car adds to the enjoyment. That's the last thing you want to be taking away.
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no distinction. If you are a lapped car then you fall under the umbrella term of "any car" and so must be allowed to unlap. "Any" just makes more sense grammatically if there is only one lapped car in the situation where "all" would then not read properly.
If a sign at a theme park said "anybody caught queue jumping will be evicted from the park" you wouldn't assume it was OK for a third person to queue jump because it said Any and not all.
comment by The Hybrid Doos (U10416)
posted 35 minutes ago
It's the fact all the cars should have been allowed to unlap themselves before the safety car came in but they only allowed the ones between Hamilton and Max
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also that the rules state the safety car goes in at the end of the following lap (which would have been the end of the race) and they sent it in at the end of the immediate lap.
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 13 minutes ago
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The crash actually handed the win to Hamilton. Either they keep the cars between, which slows Verstappen down and makes it unlikely he catches up, or they allow all cars to unlap and the race ends with the safety car and Hamilton winning.
What handed the race to Verstappen was the race director breaking two of the rules to allow the final lap to take place with no cars between Verstappen and Hamilton.
That was race fixing. The FIA awarded Max a world championship he was not going to get.
Broke their own rules to make it happen.
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Such a stupid argument
Never before has it been applied as any and not all
Maxs championship is tainted
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 13 minutes ago
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The crash actually handed the win to Hamilton. Either they keep the cars between, which slows Verstappen down and makes it unlikely he catches up, or they allow all cars to unlap and the race ends with the safety car and Hamilton winning.
What handed the race to Verstappen was the race director breaking two of the rules to allow the final lap to take place with no cars between Verstappen and Hamilton.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A SC was always going to help RB as they could pit Max for softs as he was so far ahead of 3rd place. Bottas being completely useless, Merc only had one option. But I agree, what should have happened is either end the race under a SC or keep the unlapped cars where they were, would have given Lewis some breathing space, but the way it went, there was always going to be one winner once a SC was out, bit of a shallow victory, and all because Masi has no balls and easily influenced by the team principles. Horner could have complained all he wanted if it ended with a SC, but with Hamilton 11 seconds in front with 5 laps remaining, he deserved the victory.
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really upset about it as I'm not a big F1 fan (partner is though). It is mainly about fairness and the same argument that I apply to football. The rules should be applied. People would be up in arms if the ref in a cup-final decided that the offside rule didn't apply to team A in the last 10 minutes and they then scored a late winner because of it.
It is basically the difference between portraying yourself as a legitimate sport or a WWE style entertainment business.
The FIA did everything in their power to handicap Merc and give the advantage to Red Bull, and they still just about scraped the win with some questionable decisions too, Merc still won the constructors though.
Even the last race with the dodgy red flag gave Red Bull the advantage, this after Merc pitted giving Max a free pitstop.
In any other race, it ends under the SC.
And although that would be a bit anti-climatic, it was anyway as Hamilton was cruising to victory.
It would have been a shame to end it under SC but it would have been a fair outcome, Max was never catching him, there was no ding dong finish likely.
But Masi contrived to make it a ding dong finish in the interest of entertainment. He didnt follow the usual protocols and that massively disadvantaged one side and handed a huge advantage to RB.
His primary concerns should be safety. It then should be fairness. If he followed the usual protocols and there was still a lap left to race then bad luck Hamilton. But he manipulate the rules to get a lap, and of all the times to do it. Simply awful judgement by the guy. May be he's under pressure from the 'new' owners of F1 to make it more entertaining etc but actually it just follows up more incompetence from him.
He should step down and the F1 rule book needs re-writing.
I am a massive F1 fan and although I am a Hamilton fan, if he was beaten fair and squad then fair play to RB & Max who have been awesome.
This is just a really unsatisfactory way of ending the season as it has been massively influenced by Masi's decision making which at this time should have been by the book, to avoid any controversy. He managed the total opposite. Even the call on lap 1 was wrong and Hamilton should have given the place back. Useless!
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 25 minutes ago
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's part of the fun. F1 is a procession most seasons. A bit of rain and and a safety car adds to the enjoyment. That's the last thing you want to be taking away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless you are the driver who has just seen his lead wiped off the board.
It is like a football match re setting the clock to 0-0 in the 89th minute just for entertainment. You would not be for it if your team was 3-0 up in the 89th minute.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
In any other race, it ends under the SC.
And although that would be a bit anti-climatic, it was anyway as Hamilton was cruising to victory.
It would have been a shame to end it under SC but it would have been a fair outcome, Max was never catching him, there was no ding dong finish likely.
But Masi contrived to make it a ding dong finish in the interest of entertainment. He didnt follow the usual protocols and that massively disadvantaged one side and handed a huge advantage to RB.
His primary concerns should be safety. It then should be fairness. If he followed the usual protocols and there was still a lap left to race then bad luck Hamilton. But he manipulate the rules to get a lap, and of all the times to do it. Simply awful judgement by the guy. May be he's under pressure from the 'new' owners of F1 to make it more entertaining etc but actually it just follows up more incompetence from him.
He should step down and the F1 rule book needs re-writing.
I am a massive F1 fan and although I am a Hamilton fan, if he was beaten fair and squad then fair play to RB & Max who have been awesome.
This is just a really unsatisfactory way of ending the season as it has been massively influenced by Masi's decision making which at this time should have been by the book, to avoid any controversy. He managed the total opposite. Even the call on lap 1 was wrong and Hamilton should have given the place back. Useless!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can’t agree I’m afraid, whether he had none or ten world titles before the weekend, it should’ve mattered that he won or lost it fairly.
He didn’t. He was cheated out of it by appalling decisions. Not only on Sunday.
That’s why people are getting hung up about it
Sign in if you want to comment
Formula one
Page 2 of 3
posted on 14/12/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 6 minutes ago
What is damning is the race director changed his mind on lapped cars after Horner came on the radio and in doing so forgot about Sainz lol.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He needed to change his mind. You could tell by the drivers reactions on the radio how much of a controversy it would of been if they were all kept in position behind the S/C. I've always rated Alonso.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Masi acted slowly. Alonso asked why aren't they passing the leader. The total SC was 5 laps, the average SC laps are 4 in a race.
As much as I think Masi fecked up, it is an awful position to be in - need to make the right call with both team bosses screaming at you. They should stop the pitwall communication with the RD unless they are asked to respond.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alonso asked where Max was. When he got told he was 4 cars back he said he should be 2 in front Too right n'all. Yeah, they've got to stop the lobbying mid-race. The RD just needs to get his head down.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 22 minutes ago
Russians gonna be subscribing to the F1 Athletic equivalent and be an expert in no time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm going to try to resist the urge to get drawn into it.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 46 minutes ago
A modern day F1 car has the same length and width as a Rolls-Royce LWB Phantom. And the turning radius of a bin lorry.
Gone up in length by at least 2 feet over the past decade, while the various racing tracks basically stayed the same.
Only way to keep this up is by adding more administrative waffle and silly rules.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read that and thought ballacks. Googled it and your right. Why are they so much bigger now? 😱
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's crazy. People don't realise just how large these modern cars are until you see them in the flesh.
I guess some of it has to do with providing increased crumple-zones for the drivers. Then we also had a significant increase in mandated weight limits to allow for the heavier hybrid systems.
All perfectly understandable. But the thing that ruins it all is the dramatic increase in wheelbases. Might as well be racing in full size Transit vans.
posted on 14/12/21
When people hear the word "corruption" they think of one person paying off another for a particular result. However, sport these days is being corrupted by need for the "best result for TV and sponsors". A good story is far better for the money men in sport than Hamilton winning yet another title crawling round the track behind the safety car. Netflix has a series to promote - it is far easier when you have controversy.
You have to wonder how many situations at football clubs taking part in Amazons series are contrived for the cameras!
All top level sport suffers from corruption. Enjoy it for what it is.
posted on 14/12/21
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been the issue.
posted on 14/12/21
Toto told the RD to not bring out the saftey car. Absolute nonsense that the RD can be spoken to like that during a race.
posted on 14/12/21
It's the fact all the cars should have been allowed to unlap themselves before the safety car came in but they only allowed the ones between Hamilton and Max
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
posted on 14/12/21
The gamesmanship on both sides has been ridiculous, but that's often the case in F1. It has severely exposed the ineptitude of the stewards which undoubtedly needs to be looked at next season.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 25 minutes ago
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's part of the fun. F1 is a procession most seasons. A bit of rain and and a safety car adds to the enjoyment. That's the last thing you want to be taking away.
posted on 14/12/21
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no distinction. If you are a lapped car then you fall under the umbrella term of "any car" and so must be allowed to unlap. "Any" just makes more sense grammatically if there is only one lapped car in the situation where "all" would then not read properly.
If a sign at a theme park said "anybody caught queue jumping will be evicted from the park" you wouldn't assume it was OK for a third person to queue jump because it said Any and not all.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by The Hybrid Doos (U10416)
posted 35 minutes ago
It's the fact all the cars should have been allowed to unlap themselves before the safety car came in but they only allowed the ones between Hamilton and Max
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also that the rules state the safety car goes in at the end of the following lap (which would have been the end of the race) and they sent it in at the end of the immediate lap.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 13 minutes ago
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The crash actually handed the win to Hamilton. Either they keep the cars between, which slows Verstappen down and makes it unlikely he catches up, or they allow all cars to unlap and the race ends with the safety car and Hamilton winning.
What handed the race to Verstappen was the race director breaking two of the rules to allow the final lap to take place with no cars between Verstappen and Hamilton.
posted on 14/12/21
That was race fixing. The FIA awarded Max a world championship he was not going to get.
Broke their own rules to make it happen.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by Nsno-let us pray (U22663)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Michael, this isn't right. 😠(U10408)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mercedes gambled on the race ending behind the safety car with 6 laps to go. If they pitted and Max didn't the result would have gone the other way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but as far as I understand, no one is disputing the fact that it's a normal thing for the safety car to bunch everyone together and team strategies and gambles at these times can have a big impact on results. From that point of view, Red Bull made a winning gamble (while for Mercedes, in a winning position, it would have been a much riskier thing to do). However, what seems to be unprecedented and not justified in the rules - unless the rule that "the race director can do whatever he likes" trumps all other rules - is allowing Verstappen, but not the cars between him and Hamilton, to overtake the safety car. So not only had a 12-second lead been wiped out by the safety car (tough luck for Hamilton), but so were the four or five cars that Verstappen would have to overtake before attacking. Masi's intervention effectively picked up Verstappen's car and put it next to Hamilton's. Having done so after Red Bull had changed to soft tyres, this effectively guaranteed Verstappen would win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct FIA have admitted they broke their rules surrounding the safety car.
The rules state that all cars must pass. Only 5 did but not only that, the race can only be restarted 1 lap after the cars have gone through. They started the race immediately which is unprecedented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rule state ANY car must pass, not ALL.
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Such a stupid argument
Never before has it been applied as any and not all
Maxs championship is tainted
posted on 14/12/21
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 13 minutes ago
Lewis spent pretty much the whole race in front, was about 11 seconds in front and no way was Max catching him, even though Max pitted before with the VSC, he couldn't catch him till Latifi had a brain fart and totally screwed things up for Mercedes.
Merc couldn't afford a pit stop as they needed track position. That crash basically handed the win to Max as there was no way Hamilton could defend against Max once the SC was out and he pitted for fresh softs whilst he was on hards 35 laps old. Red Bull were always going to do the opposite of Merc, and any sort of SC was going to help them immensely, added to the fact that all cars separating them two could un-lap in the final lap, but behind them couldn't which was a complete farce, Hamilton was a sitting duck. Any other race, it would have ended under a SC.
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The crash actually handed the win to Hamilton. Either they keep the cars between, which slows Verstappen down and makes it unlikely he catches up, or they allow all cars to unlap and the race ends with the safety car and Hamilton winning.
What handed the race to Verstappen was the race director breaking two of the rules to allow the final lap to take place with no cars between Verstappen and Hamilton.
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A SC was always going to help RB as they could pit Max for softs as he was so far ahead of 3rd place. Bottas being completely useless, Merc only had one option. But I agree, what should have happened is either end the race under a SC or keep the unlapped cars where they were, would have given Lewis some breathing space, but the way it went, there was always going to be one winner once a SC was out, bit of a shallow victory, and all because Masi has no balls and easily influenced by the team principles. Horner could have complained all he wanted if it ended with a SC, but with Hamilton 11 seconds in front with 5 laps remaining, he deserved the victory.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
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Not really upset about it as I'm not a big F1 fan (partner is though). It is mainly about fairness and the same argument that I apply to football. The rules should be applied. People would be up in arms if the ref in a cup-final decided that the offside rule didn't apply to team A in the last 10 minutes and they then scored a late winner because of it.
It is basically the difference between portraying yourself as a legitimate sport or a WWE style entertainment business.
posted on 14/12/21
The FIA did everything in their power to handicap Merc and give the advantage to Red Bull, and they still just about scraped the win with some questionable decisions too, Merc still won the constructors though.
Even the last race with the dodgy red flag gave Red Bull the advantage, this after Merc pitted giving Max a free pitstop.
posted on 14/12/21
In any other race, it ends under the SC.
And although that would be a bit anti-climatic, it was anyway as Hamilton was cruising to victory.
It would have been a shame to end it under SC but it would have been a fair outcome, Max was never catching him, there was no ding dong finish likely.
But Masi contrived to make it a ding dong finish in the interest of entertainment. He didnt follow the usual protocols and that massively disadvantaged one side and handed a huge advantage to RB.
His primary concerns should be safety. It then should be fairness. If he followed the usual protocols and there was still a lap left to race then bad luck Hamilton. But he manipulate the rules to get a lap, and of all the times to do it. Simply awful judgement by the guy. May be he's under pressure from the 'new' owners of F1 to make it more entertaining etc but actually it just follows up more incompetence from him.
He should step down and the F1 rule book needs re-writing.
I am a massive F1 fan and although I am a Hamilton fan, if he was beaten fair and squad then fair play to RB & Max who have been awesome.
This is just a really unsatisfactory way of ending the season as it has been massively influenced by Masi's decision making which at this time should have been by the book, to avoid any controversy. He managed the total opposite. Even the call on lap 1 was wrong and Hamilton should have given the place back. Useless!
posted on 14/12/21
comment by South Side (U20009)
posted 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 25 minutes ago
The whole safety car rule is farcical. Drivers should not have their lead wiped out. That has, imo, always been
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That's part of the fun. F1 is a procession most seasons. A bit of rain and and a safety car adds to the enjoyment. That's the last thing you want to be taking away.
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Unless you are the driver who has just seen his lead wiped off the board.
It is like a football match re setting the clock to 0-0 in the 89th minute just for entertainment. You would not be for it if your team was 3-0 up in the 89th minute.
posted on 14/12/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
In any other race, it ends under the SC.
And although that would be a bit anti-climatic, it was anyway as Hamilton was cruising to victory.
It would have been a shame to end it under SC but it would have been a fair outcome, Max was never catching him, there was no ding dong finish likely.
But Masi contrived to make it a ding dong finish in the interest of entertainment. He didnt follow the usual protocols and that massively disadvantaged one side and handed a huge advantage to RB.
His primary concerns should be safety. It then should be fairness. If he followed the usual protocols and there was still a lap left to race then bad luck Hamilton. But he manipulate the rules to get a lap, and of all the times to do it. Simply awful judgement by the guy. May be he's under pressure from the 'new' owners of F1 to make it more entertaining etc but actually it just follows up more incompetence from him.
He should step down and the F1 rule book needs re-writing.
I am a massive F1 fan and although I am a Hamilton fan, if he was beaten fair and squad then fair play to RB & Max who have been awesome.
This is just a really unsatisfactory way of ending the season as it has been massively influenced by Masi's decision making which at this time should have been by the book, to avoid any controversy. He managed the total opposite. Even the call on lap 1 was wrong and Hamilton should have given the place back. Useless!
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posted on 14/12/21
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
I don't know why folk are getting so hung up about this?
Hamilton has 7 World titles already so it won't do him or the sport any harm to have a new winner.
When I picked my boy up from school yesterday I was chatting to some of the other dads about the weekends sport and one bloke was nearly in tears about it. That said he is an Arsenal fan.
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I can’t agree I’m afraid, whether he had none or ten world titles before the weekend, it should’ve mattered that he won or lost it fairly.
He didn’t. He was cheated out of it by appalling decisions. Not only on Sunday.
That’s why people are getting hung up about it
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