comment by Robbb (U22716)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 minute ago
Djokovic should be ashamed for turning this into a political one. He knows very well Australia have stringent COVID rules and they didn't even let their own citizens into their country in the first and second COVID wave..
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was one of those. My flight there in 2020 was cancelled three times before I finally got on one. It was harder to get in than Margot Robbie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first and second covid wave situations were far different to now. There's a very high vaccination percentage and a disease that is no longer as severe. It is not appropriate to compare.

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 1 minute ago
Why should he be ashamed? They said he was allowed to come and won his case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
False representing his entry clearance and now turning this into a political one.

comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is WELL KNOWN in science and virology that naturl immunity is generally better than a vaccine...well before c19 came around. Smallpox and measles had vaccines but if you recovered from either naturally then you were advised to NOT have the vaccine...scientifically there is no point.

Indeed in the USA the CDC...centre for disease control did EXACTLY that...advised against the vaccine IF you recovered naturally. Of course they advised getting the vaccine first but if you you didn't and you recovered there was no need to get it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely different pathogens which are completely incomparable.

Are elderly people infected with flu advised not get vaccinated the following year? Of course not, because just like SARS-CoV-2, influenza is still an exceptionally highly mutable virus.

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What? No. Let’s just say we knew for a fact that immunity from a prior infection were stronger than from a vaccine - and it was given the same status. If I have never had Covid and I don’t want a vaccine for whatever reason, I can simply go and get myself infected.

First of all, how do I do this? I can’t just book a slot in a certain place at a certain time and guarantee I’ll get myself some immunity, like I can with a vaccine. I might do all the ‘right’ things to get myself ill and fail to do so for weeks.

Secondly, what if I get seriously ill with Covid - or even die?

I’m not sure you can really allow for a set of circumstances that encourages people to pick up a virus during a pandemic. And I think that’s what would happen if you say that a prior infection is equal to a vaccination. It’s not about not telling the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My view is that covid passes and restrictions on the unvaccinated are not logical, so there would be no need for them to get themselves infected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless they needed a Covid pass. Logical or not, if one were required, they’d have to get one. And if they were determined not to get vaccinated, that would mean…

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really keen on vaccine passports for a couple of reasons. But where they exist, I don’t think it’s a great idea to say that a recent infection counts because that absolutely will encourage vaccine-hesitant people to get infected so as to ‘cheat the system’.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'm not saying whether a recent infection should count or not, i'm just saying the fact is that a recent infection provides immunity.

comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb (U22716)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 minute ago
Djokovic should be ashamed for turning this into a political one. He knows very well Australia have stringent COVID rules and they didn't even let their own citizens into their country in the first and second COVID wave..
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was one of those. My flight there in 2020 was cancelled three times before I finally got on one. It was harder to get in than Margot Robbie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first and second covid wave situations were far different to now. There's a very high vaccination percentage and a disease that is no longer as severe. It is not appropriate to compare.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Indeed Barry. Hence why the Australian policy has been shown to be one of the best in the world because it primarily protected its citizens (2000 deaths vs 150000 UK ones) and also from that has a 92% fully vaccinated rate amongst the over 16s.

Now the doors are gradually opening to the fully vaccinated and lessons have been learnt for the next pandemic (which is hopefully decades away, not years)

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you think the concept of herd immunity is a lie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, a simple "no" would have done.

But just to humour you ... you do know that herd immunity does not apply equally to all infectious diseases, don't you?

You do know that new flu vaccines are produced every year because of how rapidly some viruses mutate and because immunity against one strain does not necessarily guarantee immunity against all others?

You do know that an important reason for vaccines is to reduce the seasonal overcrowding of emergency services to ensure that other people get timely care for life-threatening conditions?

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What? No. Let’s just say we knew for a fact that immunity from a prior infection were stronger than from a vaccine - and it was given the same status. If I have never had Covid and I don’t want a vaccine for whatever reason, I can simply go and get myself infected.

First of all, how do I do this? I can’t just book a slot in a certain place at a certain time and guarantee I’ll get myself some immunity, like I can with a vaccine. I might do all the ‘right’ things to get myself ill and fail to do so for weeks.

Secondly, what if I get seriously ill with Covid - or even die?

I’m not sure you can really allow for a set of circumstances that encourages people to pick up a virus during a pandemic. And I think that’s what would happen if you say that a prior infection is equal to a vaccination. It’s not about not telling the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My view is that covid passes and restrictions on the unvaccinated are not logical, so there would be no need for them to get themselves infected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless they needed a Covid pass. Logical or not, if one were required, they’d have to get one. And if they were determined not to get vaccinated, that would mean…

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really keen on vaccine passports for a couple of reasons. But where they exist, I don’t think it’s a great idea to say that a recent infection counts because that absolutely will encourage vaccine-hesitant people to get infected so as to ‘cheat the system’.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'm not saying whether a recent infection should count or not, i'm just saying the fact is that a recent infection provides immunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair enough, but I was responding to Barry who said that ‘From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.’

In the case of a single individual like Djokovic, I agree; but this is always about a bigger picture. I’m just trying to point out that this approach would inevitably encourage people to go down the ‘Well, I’ll get myself infected then’ route instead of the vaccination one. Which would be impractical and irresponsible, whether that’s ‘political’ or not.

comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robbb (U22716)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 minute ago
Djokovic should be ashamed for turning this into a political one. He knows very well Australia have stringent COVID rules and they didn't even let their own citizens into their country in the first and second COVID wave..
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was one of those. My flight there in 2020 was cancelled three times before I finally got on one. It was harder to get in than Margot Robbie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first and second covid wave situations were far different to now. There's a very high vaccination percentage and a disease that is no longer as severe. It is not appropriate to compare.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

New data is coming from Asia.. 9-10% infected need hospitalised.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 6 minutes ago

i'm not saying whether a recent infection should count or not, i'm just saying the fact is that a recent infection provides immunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That isn't the only thing you've said. You've also spouted unsubstantiated rubbish, and refused to back it up with any credible evidence, whilst totally ignoring that supplied to you.

Again, to be clear, the data shows that a recent infection *may* (but won’t necessarily) provide a decent level of protection, and the medium-long term immune response it does offer is unpredictable and highly variable when compared with vaccination.

It is also much less likely to provide as strong protection against severe illness.

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you think the concept of herd immunity is a lie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, a simple "no" would have done.

But just to humour you ... you do know that herd immunity does not apply equally to all infectious diseases, don't you?

You do know that new flu vaccines are produced every year because of how rapidly some viruses mutate and because immunity against one strain does not necessarily guarantee immunity against all others?

You do know that an important reason for vaccines is to reduce the seasonal overcrowding of emergency services to ensure that other people get timely care for life-threatening conditions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it's a decent debate between people with different opinions, no need to be a passive aggressive caant

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 56 seconds ago
Again, to be clear, the data shows that a recent infection *may* (but won’t necessarily) provide a decent level of protection, and the medium-long term immune response it does offer is unpredictable and highly variable when compared with vaccination.

It is also much less likely to provide as strong protection against severe illness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso, would you be willing to reconsider your position in the light of new, reliable, peer-reviewed research from solidly designed studies?

At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.

comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 4 minutes ago
At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Barry, please don’t use your powers for evil

Isolating at present I didn’t even know i had the bloody virus i had no symptoms what so ever, it was only because my Mrs tested positive that i did the test.

Both had all 3 jabs like i said i’ve had nothing, she has been coughing and sneezing a lot and has had a bit of a tight chest but nothing that would of kept her off work normally!

Im on day 6 of isolation and still showing positive on the LFTs!

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you think the concept of herd immunity is a lie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, a simple "no" would have done.

But just to humour you ... you do know that herd immunity does not apply equally to all infectious diseases, don't you?

You do know that new flu vaccines are produced every year because of how rapidly some viruses mutate and because immunity against one strain does not necessarily guarantee immunity against all others?

You do know that an important reason for vaccines is to reduce the seasonal overcrowding of emergency services to ensure that other people get timely care for life-threatening conditions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it's a decent debate between people with different opinions, no need to be a passive aggressive caant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it your opinion that natural Covid immunity is 10 times more effective than that obtained from vaccines, or is it a fact? If it's only an opinion, it's about as reasonable as saying that in my opinion the moon is square.

If, on the other hand, you think you're stating facts, then why refuse to back the claim up with hard data?

The mere fact that more than 5 million people have died while in the process of acquiring natural immunity ought to tell you something is not completely right with your line of thinking.

comment by Robbb (U22716)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 4 minutes ago
At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Barry, please don’t use your powers for evil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you step off the internet and go and meet your mate that you've not seen in a few months at the pub, and he tells you that he hasn't been vaccinated, what is your reaction to it? Is it "HELP! KEEP AWAY FROM ME?" or is it "Oh ok, fair enough, how come?" And he says that he just hasn't gotten around to it yet as he feels he's pretty healthy. Do you feel under threat?

Real life is very different from the internet.

comment by Robbb (U22716)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 4 minutes ago
At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Barry, please don’t use your powers for evil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's largely right though, Robb. You need to come out of your shell a bit and start looking at the current situation rather than the one that brought us here.

comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is an exceptionally selective way of looking at it, and the comparison of unvaccinated people with immigrants not a good one. Remember - Covid was a deeply divisive issue months *before* there was even a vaccine at all, let alone any kind of rule about them. This is because people were up in arms about not just lockdowns but social distancing, masks, any news update saying cases had risen - all this was compared to Orwell, the rise of fascism and Germany in the 1930s. Those ‘complying’ were ‘sheep’ before vaccines entered the scene. It’s many of these people who have simply taken up the vaccine as the most egregious Covid-related unpleasantness, calling for NHS staff to face recriminations, seizing on any tiny hint of vaccine ‘failure’ and gloating about it as a personal victory, not to mention spreading questionable stories about ‘shedding’ etc. To cast these people as some sort of innocent scapegoats is a hell of a reach.

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 56 seconds ago
Again, to be clear, the data shows that a recent infection *may* (but won’t necessarily) provide a decent level of protection, and the medium-long term immune response it does offer is unpredictable and highly variable when compared with vaccination.

It is also much less likely to provide as strong protection against severe illness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso, would you be willing to reconsider your position in the light of new, reliable, peer-reviewed research from solidly designed studies?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, always.

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
At the end of the day the unvaccinated are not actually causing a massive problem. They are just being used at this moment in time. And people need someone to blame for the issues they face in their lives and at the moment, that's the unvaccinated. It was immigrants that the Brexit campaign used to their advantage to give the people something to blame.

With a very high percentage of people vaccinated, a weak disease going around, the science telling us now that there is only a slight reduction in transmission rates and infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated, can someone tell me what unvaccinated people are doing wrong and why does it affect you so badly?

The division social media has previously created means you are hating everything else that you think unvaccinated people stand for, by association, in the ongoing us vs them drama. Not being vaccinated isn't the issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is an exceptionally selective way of looking at it, and the comparison of unvaccinated people with immigrants not a good one. Remember - Covid was a deeply divisive issue months *before* there was even a vaccine at all, let alone any kind of rule about them. This is because people were up in arms about not just lockdowns but social distancing, masks, any news update saying cases had risen - all this was compared to Orwell, the rise of fascism and Germany in the 1930s. Those ‘complying’ were ‘sheep’ before vaccines entered the scene. It’s many of these people who have simply taken up the vaccine as the most egregious Covid-related unpleasantness, calling for NHS staff to face recriminations, seizing on any tiny hint of vaccine ‘failure’ and gloating about it as a personal victory, not to mention spreading questionable stories about ‘shedding’ etc. To cast these people as some sort of innocent scapegoats is a hell of a reach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See part where I mentioned about being angry at people by association due to the internet. I am meaning in a literal sense, in this moment in time, with what we currently know, how does someone simply not having a vaccine affect you in any great way?

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you think the concept of herd immunity is a lie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, a simple "no" would have done.

But just to humour you ... you do know that herd immunity does not apply equally to all infectious diseases, don't you?

You do know that new flu vaccines are produced every year because of how rapidly some viruses mutate and because immunity against one strain does not necessarily guarantee immunity against all others?

You do know that an important reason for vaccines is to reduce the seasonal overcrowding of emergency services to ensure that other people get timely care for life-threatening conditions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it's a decent debate between people with different opinions, no need to be a passive aggressive caant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it your opinion that natural Covid immunity is 10 times more effective than that obtained from vaccines, or is it a fact? If it's only an opinion, it's about as reasonable as saying that in my opinion the moon is square.

If, on the other hand, you think you're stating facts, then why refuse to back the claim up with hard data?

The mere fact that more than 5 million people have died while in the process of acquiring natural immunity ought to tell you something is not completely right with your line of thinking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The same link you posted before states that vaccinated people are 13 times more at risk of a breakthrough infection than people with natural immuinity.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

When a country with some of the strictest rules like Australia accepts a past infection as a substitute for vaccination I'm sure they're be basing it on solid evidence instead of opinions or misinformation.

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 56 seconds ago
Again, to be clear, the data shows that a recent infection *may* (but won’t necessarily) provide a decent level of protection, and the medium-long term immune response it does offer is unpredictable and highly variable when compared with vaccination.

It is also much less likely to provide as strong protection against severe illness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso, would you be willing to reconsider your position in the light of new, reliable, peer-reviewed research from solidly designed studies?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, always.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, thought so.

Does a Rand Paul rant qualify as new, reliable, peer-reviewed research obtained from a solidly designed study?

"Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 56 seconds ago
Again, to be clear, the data shows that a recent infection *may* (but won’t necessarily) provide a decent level of protection, and the medium-long term immune response it does offer is unpredictable and highly variable when compared with vaccination.

It is also much less likely to provide as strong protection against severe illness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso, would you be willing to reconsider your position in the light of new, reliable, peer-reviewed research from solidly designed studies?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, always.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, thought so.

Does a Rand Paul rant qualify as new, reliable, peer-reviewed research obtained from a solidly designed study?
----------------------------------------------------------------------