comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allowing Arsenal to postpone the game in Jan with just 1 Covid case seemed very iffy I agree
comment by GeniusGreaves (U1302)
posted 10 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by AMG (U22768)
posted 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
Daniel Levy,s backhanders to the refs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dangerous comment legally!🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially as the “backhander” is likely to be a free go on the skywalk, a demonstration of the pint machine and a signed picture of Chirpy
Anyone who has to write things like: "the smartest person you know" in their screenname to soothe their ego is struggling through life as evidenced by your input on this site.
Striketeam? More like special needs team.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 hours, 38 minutes ago
It’s one thing to open up a debate about corruption, and entirely another to claim your detective skills have identified said corruption in a referee who was told to look again at a handball for an outstretched arm.
Whilst corruption may well exist, it’s unlikely that this is an example of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And especially in front of 60k people watching, not to mention the world's press.
Yeah, I think if you are going to be specifically mean just to Arsenal ( you know the club with their very own "same old Arsenal, always cheating" terrace song" ) I kinda think you would do it out of everyone's sight.
Honestly, suggesting the football authorities are, somehow all colluding to make Liverpool and Spurs a force again through VAR is, well just weird. I can think of at least 7/8 "toenail" Spurs goals not given by VAR just this season alone. Then there are instances such as the ridiculous hand ball against Dier in last year;s game against Newcastle. And what about Sissoko looking in the other direction, pointing to a team mate to mark someone, whilst the sneaky Mane kicks the ball at him from 3 foot away. That VAR decision ruined the biggest domestic game in Europe within 2 minutes of kick off.
Yeah, Spurs get all the decisions don't they.
It's only an educated guess, but I am prepared to stick my neck out and say all these "corrupt Spurs" comments are being made by Arsenal fans because results are not going their way ??
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're acting like there are a queue of competent refs that the PL are preventing being promoted
Guess what, Championship fans moan about Championship refs. League 1 fans moan about League 1 ref etc.
Fans will never ever stop moaning about refereeing decisions because ultimately fans are biased towards whoever they support
Mark Clattenburg:
“If I sent three players off from Tottenham, what are the headlines? ‘Clattenburg cost Tottenham the title.’ It was pure theatre that Tottenham self-destructed against Chelsea and Leicester won the title.”
"Some referees would have played by the book; Tottenham would have been down to seven or eight players and probably lost and they would’ve been looking for an excuse. But I didn’t give them an excuse, because my gameplan was: let them lose the title.”
This is a respected ref, rated by many as one of the best of recent times, openly admitting he ignored the rules in a preconceived game plan for his personal benefit.
This isn't the brown paper envelope corruption many think of, but nevertheless it is still an official admitting ignoring the rules for personal gain.
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 6 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're acting like there are a queue of competent refs that the PL are preventing being promoted
Guess what, Championship fans moan about Championship refs. League 1 fans moan about League 1 ref etc.
Fans will never ever stop moaning about refereeing decisions because ultimately fans are biased towards whoever they support
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There would be a queue of great referees if they were paid properly with performance bonuses as well as the system/training being invested in properly. The fact that there isn't is just further evidence of the problem.
Analog, you are right in a way - but firstly PL refs are the only ones who have VAR, a tool that should take most of the errors out. Sadly they all hide behind "clear and obvious" when it suits.
Secondly, as class suggests, there is no real concern from the PGMOL about their officials, so no real desire to put in the effort of improving standards.
I think the two main moans are a lack of consistency (which should be cut by VAR but isn't) and a lack of accountability.
Oh, and the fact 90% of the refs are from the North East, and Manchester in the main!!
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 39 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it's a pretty easy excuse to hide corruption behind and not one they even need to say themselves (not that they would) but the fans are left wondering whether they are just incompetent, crooked or both - hence the article title.
Why are there so many grey haired chubbies running around struggling to keep up with play in the: "best league in the World"?
I know he's retiring along with Mike Dean but have you seen John Moss around Christmas time? 5 months ago it looked like he'd eaten about 3 turkeys himself and this was before the 25th! The bloke was sweating, struggling to breathe and couldn't keep up with the game whatsoever.
So on one hand you say that it’s impossible to tell whether a referee is incompetent or corrupt, and on the other you tell us that they’re not physically capable.
And presumably you’ll use one or both of the decisions in Spurs’ favour as an example of this?
Sorry but it just doesn’t add up. It’s surely one or the other, and that’s before we get into the issue of this being subjective, with many people concluding that based on the current laws, the decisions were correct.
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
Also, some of the referees are not physically capable, the ones that have not kept themselves in shape as they've gotten older. Not all of then.
Admin will be loving the return of Winston. The amount of comments per day will jump. 100 fold. Then by 20,000 when Great teams and toor pip in
Welcome back winsty.
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
Welcome back winsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers mate, how have you been?
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
Admin will be loving the return of Winston. The amount of comments per day will jump. 100 fold. Then by 20,000 when Great teams and toor pip in
Welcome back winsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, welcome back Winsty. Just in time for the quad.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch every Arsenal game for the past 20 years and you'll see it too
It's been increasing every season bit by bit and it's just gotten absurd now to the point where we are lucky to get through a single game where it doesn't feel like the ref is against us.
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch every Arsenal game for the past 20 years and you'll see it too
It's been increasing every season bit by bit and it's just gotten absurd now to the point where we are lucky to get through a single game where it doesn't feel like the ref is against us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don’t tell me that this corruption you’ve noticed is against Arsenal but in favour of Spurs…?!
My sister's husband is a Spurs fan and has watched a fair few Arsenal games with me over the past two years, he genuinely can't believe how bad we get it from the referees.
I don't watch enough Tottenham games to make any kind of judgement on whether the referees tend to favour you or tend to be against you.
My other sister's boyfriend is a West Ham fan and is pretty adamant they regularly have the ref against them.
I’m not a Spurs fan mate.
I just find it reduces the credibility of corruption claims when it’s based on perceived bad decisions against your own team.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad refs getting top jobs while never getting reprimanded for their errors? Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing!
I
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad refs getting top jobs while never getting reprimanded for their errors? Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing!
I
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, you’ll have to explain that one.
So someone is giving bad referees important jobs because it helps their corruption? In what way?
It’s a genuine question. I don’t get it.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
I’m not a Spurs fan mate.
I just find it reduces the credibility of corruption claims when it’s based on perceived bad decisions against your own team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you've played football all your life, done youth coaching & youth refereeing you're quite capable of watching your own team and judging decisions without bias. When it's happening in nearly every game so blatantly biases don't even come into it.
Sign in if you want to comment
Corruption or poor refereeing
Page 3 of 4
posted on 16/5/22
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allowing Arsenal to postpone the game in Jan with just 1 Covid case seemed very iffy I agree
posted on 16/5/22
comment by GeniusGreaves (U1302)
posted 10 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by AMG (U22768)
posted 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
Daniel Levy,s backhanders to the refs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dangerous comment legally!🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially as the “backhander” is likely to be a free go on the skywalk, a demonstration of the pint machine and a signed picture of Chirpy
posted on 16/5/22
Anyone who has to write things like: "the smartest person you know" in their screenname to soothe their ego is struggling through life as evidenced by your input on this site.
Striketeam? More like special needs team.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 hours, 38 minutes ago
It’s one thing to open up a debate about corruption, and entirely another to claim your detective skills have identified said corruption in a referee who was told to look again at a handball for an outstretched arm.
Whilst corruption may well exist, it’s unlikely that this is an example of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And especially in front of 60k people watching, not to mention the world's press.
Yeah, I think if you are going to be specifically mean just to Arsenal ( you know the club with their very own "same old Arsenal, always cheating" terrace song" ) I kinda think you would do it out of everyone's sight.
Honestly, suggesting the football authorities are, somehow all colluding to make Liverpool and Spurs a force again through VAR is, well just weird. I can think of at least 7/8 "toenail" Spurs goals not given by VAR just this season alone. Then there are instances such as the ridiculous hand ball against Dier in last year;s game against Newcastle. And what about Sissoko looking in the other direction, pointing to a team mate to mark someone, whilst the sneaky Mane kicks the ball at him from 3 foot away. That VAR decision ruined the biggest domestic game in Europe within 2 minutes of kick off.
Yeah, Spurs get all the decisions don't they.
It's only an educated guess, but I am prepared to stick my neck out and say all these "corrupt Spurs" comments are being made by Arsenal fans because results are not going their way ??
posted on 16/5/22
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're acting like there are a queue of competent refs that the PL are preventing being promoted
Guess what, Championship fans moan about Championship refs. League 1 fans moan about League 1 ref etc.
Fans will never ever stop moaning about refereeing decisions because ultimately fans are biased towards whoever they support
posted on 16/5/22
Mark Clattenburg:
“If I sent three players off from Tottenham, what are the headlines? ‘Clattenburg cost Tottenham the title.’ It was pure theatre that Tottenham self-destructed against Chelsea and Leicester won the title.”
"Some referees would have played by the book; Tottenham would have been down to seven or eight players and probably lost and they would’ve been looking for an excuse. But I didn’t give them an excuse, because my gameplan was: let them lose the title.”
This is a respected ref, rated by many as one of the best of recent times, openly admitting he ignored the rules in a preconceived game plan for his personal benefit.
This isn't the brown paper envelope corruption many think of, but nevertheless it is still an official admitting ignoring the rules for personal gain.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 6 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
There's times when you think how can refs at the very top of their profession be that poor, it's not possible to be that bad at your job.
====
Not just they are that bad at their job, but their bosses don't do anything about it. Jon Moss being a PL ref for so long says everything. Richest league poorest refs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping such poor referees for so long points at some level of corruption as it also gives them an easy excuse when bizarre decisions happen again and again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're acting like there are a queue of competent refs that the PL are preventing being promoted
Guess what, Championship fans moan about Championship refs. League 1 fans moan about League 1 ref etc.
Fans will never ever stop moaning about refereeing decisions because ultimately fans are biased towards whoever they support
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There would be a queue of great referees if they were paid properly with performance bonuses as well as the system/training being invested in properly. The fact that there isn't is just further evidence of the problem.
posted on 16/5/22
Analog, you are right in a way - but firstly PL refs are the only ones who have VAR, a tool that should take most of the errors out. Sadly they all hide behind "clear and obvious" when it suits.
Secondly, as class suggests, there is no real concern from the PGMOL about their officials, so no real desire to put in the effort of improving standards.
I think the two main moans are a lack of consistency (which should be cut by VAR but isn't) and a lack of accountability.
Oh, and the fact 90% of the refs are from the North East, and Manchester in the main!!
posted on 16/5/22
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 39 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it's a pretty easy excuse to hide corruption behind and not one they even need to say themselves (not that they would) but the fans are left wondering whether they are just incompetent, crooked or both - hence the article title.
Why are there so many grey haired chubbies running around struggling to keep up with play in the: "best league in the World"?
I know he's retiring along with Mike Dean but have you seen John Moss around Christmas time? 5 months ago it looked like he'd eaten about 3 turkeys himself and this was before the 25th! The bloke was sweating, struggling to breathe and couldn't keep up with the game whatsoever.
posted on 16/5/22
So on one hand you say that it’s impossible to tell whether a referee is incompetent or corrupt, and on the other you tell us that they’re not physically capable.
And presumably you’ll use one or both of the decisions in Spurs’ favour as an example of this?
Sorry but it just doesn’t add up. It’s surely one or the other, and that’s before we get into the issue of this being subjective, with many people concluding that based on the current laws, the decisions were correct.
posted on 16/5/22
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
posted on 16/5/22
Also, some of the referees are not physically capable, the ones that have not kept themselves in shape as they've gotten older. Not all of then.
posted on 16/5/22
*them
posted on 16/5/22
Admin will be loving the return of Winston. The amount of comments per day will jump. 100 fold. Then by 20,000 when Great teams and toor pip in
Welcome back winsty.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
Welcome back winsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers mate, how have you been?
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
Admin will be loving the return of Winston. The amount of comments per day will jump. 100 fold. Then by 20,000 when Great teams and toor pip in
Welcome back winsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, welcome back Winsty. Just in time for the quad.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch every Arsenal game for the past 20 years and you'll see it too
It's been increasing every season bit by bit and it's just gotten absurd now to the point where we are lucky to get through a single game where it doesn't feel like the ref is against us.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class ¯\_/^v^\_/¯ (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
When did I say it's impossible to tell?
Why couldn't they be both?
Why are you talking about Spurs? I wasn't in my posts. I've been claiming corruption for 10-15 years.
The fact that they are not well paid means brown envelope / Swiss bank account corruption is more likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a lot of questions
I wasn’t quoting you, it was just an expression.
If you have been making this claim for many years then fair enough, but most people I see do it when a decision goes against their team, hence the Spurs reference.
I still don’t see the link between corruption and incompetence… all I think that does is dilute the accusation, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch every Arsenal game for the past 20 years and you'll see it too
It's been increasing every season bit by bit and it's just gotten absurd now to the point where we are lucky to get through a single game where it doesn't feel like the ref is against us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don’t tell me that this corruption you’ve noticed is against Arsenal but in favour of Spurs…?!
posted on 16/5/22
My sister's husband is a Spurs fan and has watched a fair few Arsenal games with me over the past two years, he genuinely can't believe how bad we get it from the referees.
I don't watch enough Tottenham games to make any kind of judgement on whether the referees tend to favour you or tend to be against you.
My other sister's boyfriend is a West Ham fan and is pretty adamant they regularly have the ref against them.
posted on 16/5/22
I’m not a Spurs fan mate.
I just find it reduces the credibility of corruption claims when it’s based on perceived bad decisions against your own team.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad refs getting top jobs while never getting reprimanded for their errors? Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing!
I
posted on 16/5/22
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
I don’t really understand what refereeing standards have to do with claims of corruption.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad refs getting top jobs while never getting reprimanded for their errors? Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing!
I
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, you’ll have to explain that one.
So someone is giving bad referees important jobs because it helps their corruption? In what way?
It’s a genuine question. I don’t get it.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
I’m not a Spurs fan mate.
I just find it reduces the credibility of corruption claims when it’s based on perceived bad decisions against your own team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you've played football all your life, done youth coaching & youth refereeing you're quite capable of watching your own team and judging decisions without bias. When it's happening in nearly every game so blatantly biases don't even come into it.
Page 3 of 4