Should be looking at getting Cooper in if Forest don't come up.
I think it’s fairly obvious to all he’ll be here now he’s done his job in keeping us up, it’s difficult to know exactly what to expect really, style of football, choices and selection have been forced by injury, suspension and objective to stay up at any cost.
Hopefully his targets and full pre season, we’ll see something a bit different from the team, looks like a few players coming in he must have discussed should be have stayed up.
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 27 seconds ago
I think it’s fairly obvious to all he’ll be here now he’s done his job in keeping us up, it’s difficult to know exactly what to expect really, style of football, choices and selection have been forced by injury, suspension and objective to stay up at any cost.
Hopefully his targets and full pre season, we’ll see something a bit different from the team, looks like a few players coming in he must have discussed should be have stayed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but that’s what could easily be said about bielsa’s last few months.
You’re right though, not sure realistically I would expect anything different. But he’s not filled me with any confidence and we talk about Radz learning lessons - I hope marsch has too about the league / culture going forward.
So am I. No faith in him at all. Him being our manager has muted my elation of staying up
But it's better than being in the championship with not much chance of coming straight back up. Never thought we had any chance of being relegated until we fired bielsa. Have to remember though that it's not him spending the money. We have bigger problems in that department. Can we trust orta?
A14.. I get your nervousness regarding JM and the drastic gear change in style of play under him but I'm prepared to give him a chance with a pre season and half a dozen good quality additions and then judge him.
What I'm most nervous about is Orta's judgement which has been shocking on the whole and I would feel a lot happier with him no where near team recruitment.
Ultimately we will see after about a dozen games next season if your fears are justified or not.
I think with the right players he’ll do alright, it depends how we invest more importantly. End of the day, he kept us up, we didn’t bottle the final game, he got the depleted squad to complete the objective without falling apart at Brentford which most of us thought would happen.
Go watch RB Salzburg vs Liverpool. That will tell you
more about what to expect from Marsch given a
summer and additions in the transfer market.
The last 12 games were a Red Adair special. A team
with zero confidence, playing murderball three times a
week to be then thrashed at record levels on match day.
A team dealing with injuries and a stubborn coach who
refused help in January. Playing Bielsa's system that he
drilled into the players over the three previous seasons.
That's what Marsch inherited and was asked to keep up.
As a team, we weren't pretty prior to him getting here.
No way he was going to implement his own style (see
Salzburg). Whether anyone likes how he did it or not.
The fact is he did it. He at least gets this summer
and the first 10 games of next season before we can
kick the bloke to the curb.
I'm more than happy to give the man a chance.
Is it a risk? Yes. Especially when Orta's doing the
grocery shopping. However, Marsch earned this.
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 8 minutes ago
Fair enough, but that’s what could easily be said about bielsa’s last few months.
You’re right though, not sure realistically I would expect anything different. But he’s not filled me with any confidence and we talk about Radz learning lessons - I hope marsch has too about the league / culture going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bielsa's plans fell apart due to injuries and the small squad mainly, but it was also apparent that teams had adapted to our way of playing and were picking us off at will. Despite this, I had confidence in him putting us back on track after our drubbings in Feb/March and I don't think the club should have sacked him.
Our team over-performed in our first season up. I think that was helped in no small part by us playing a style of football that surprised the other teams. We were also helped by having no crowds I suspect - less pressure, more focus on technique.
Bielsa never countenanced a "plan B" as he had complete faith in his way of doing things, however I think (yeah, whaddo I know?!) that his method of play could only work long-term in the Premiership if he had players of top-six quality throughout the team, so something had to change longer term.
Can Marsch pick up the torch? Nothing I've seen or heard from him so far gives me any confidence. It's fair to say that (given our injuries and league position) that a Ted Lasso boosting confidence would have done as well as anybody. It's also fair to say that we've not had chance to see anything new tactically from him because of the circumstances.
I'm comfortable giving him time to build the squad. Some of the things I read about his football approach suggest he's not a million miles away from Bielsa's way of playing, so he might yet surprise us.
I hope I'm right - I really don't want another season-end like we've just had. My ticker won't take it!!
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 42 minutes ago
So am I. No faith in him at all. Him being our manager has muted my elation of staying up
But it's better than being in the championship with not much chance of coming straight back up. Never thought we had any chance of being relegated until we fired bielsa. Have to remember though that it's not him spending the money. We have bigger problems in that department. Can we trust orta?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know what you mean….
https://twitter.com/lufc/status/1528469345533296641?s=21&t=OHmcME6cwi08qUZp-A_Mbw
JM deserves a shot but feck me we need to play a dam site better/nicer next season. He's worked with Aaronson, so could be a big hit if they work in tandem.
He's done his job and we should all be very appreciative of JM
comment by Batty 🇺🇦 (U4664)
posted 29 minutes ago
Go watch RB Salzburg vs Liverpool. That will tell you
more about what to expect from Marsch given a
summer and additions in the transfer market.
The last 12 games were a Red Adair special. A team
with zero confidence, playing murderball three times a
week to be then thrashed at record levels on match day.
A team dealing with injuries and a stubborn coach who
refused help in January. Playing Bielsa's system that he
drilled into the players over the three previous seasons.
That's what Marsch inherited and was asked to keep up.
As a team, we weren't pretty prior to him getting here.
No way he was going to implement his own style (see
Salzburg). Whether anyone likes how he did it or not.
The fact is he did it. He at least gets this summer
and the first 10 games of next season before we can
kick the bloke to the curb.
I'm more than happy to give the man a chance.
Is it a risk? Yes. Especially when Orta's doing the
grocery shopping. However, Marsch earned this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nailed it there Batty.
Orta on the pitch at the end, fist pumping and running around like he’s the one who scored the winner, tells me he’s mr untouchable and mr unaccountable
Needs to really up his game in the transfer market or we’ll go down next season, does matter if we have Marsch or someone else
I’d safely say that if the bucket man was in charge you wouldn’t even have a sniff of needing something yesterday.
You’d already be gone, more’s the pity.
Listen it was great but MB is LUFC history now - We all need to get weaned off Marcelo and give JM a break.
His first remit has been accomplished and I'm with Batty on this one - He has had success at a European club.
I dont believe for one moment that we will go the small squad route again - if we've learnt anything from where we nearly found ourselves until yesterday evening, it is a decent sized quality squad is essential at this level of football or you will very probably flirt with relegation.
2 months ago:
“I believe in a project that is one of Marcelo Bielsa’s legacies. If you believe in youth development you need to prove it. Our idea is 18 professionals and the other four players all with the under-23s because we believe in youth development and want to give responsibility to the academy,” he said.
“It’s true that it’s risky. It’s true that if you have these four players with more experience perhaps the results in the short-term will be better. But it’s true on the other side that you create a lot of bad ways."
“I create these answers because it’s worth millions long-term for the club. To build players is really important.”
Already detailed previously i have not been impressed to date. Talks a good game....kind of.....actions speak louder for me.
12 games
1 great unlucky performance v Leicester away
1 clinical performance v Watford away
1 lucky performance v Norwich at home when his substitutions almost cost us 2 points.
1 lucky performance v Wolves when the home side was coasting until a silly red card.
7 poor performances including an absolute shocker at home to Villa, poor discipline against Arsenal and Chelsea.
which brings me on to Brentford.....
How lucky were we! The opposition played the first half in a low gear and then having stepped up in the second half were reduced to 9-men.
I thought the first half was decent. I was pleased with the side at half time. However, when we were leading 1-0 and Burnley were losing 2-0 i felt the game management was poor
- we should have sat deeper.
- we should have been allowing balls to roll away to take up valuable seconds. Several times Leeds players stopped or gave the ball for Brentford to get the game moving again.
I didnt really see us change anything at this point other than a tweak in formation.
The game then changed massively. Brentford had scored / Burnley had scored. Brentford were down to 9-men and 1 goal, yes just 1 goal from Burnley sent us down. We were playing against 9-men and you honestly couldnt tell. Phillips had to take a yellow card to prevent them having a 2 on 1!!!. At this point i was screaming for us to go score the goal to keep us up - not rely on elsewhere. Fortune favors the brave. Surely Ghandi would have said go score a goal ffs. 14 minutes we played against 9-men without once creating a single opportunity, not even a 2 on 1 scenario. We now know Wiegworst was literally 1/2 cm away from Burnley getting the draw. In the end it took a very fortunate deflection to gain the win.
I just did not see anything from the manager in terms of managing the situation. Yes it all turned out in well in the end but i was honestly disappointed again.
These aftermath comments amaze me ......
""We tried to communicate that. We wanted to win the game and end it so Burnley couldn't have a lucky punch to seal our fate." - this is absolute rubbish. Never created one chance in 14 minutes v 9-men. Never pushed players forwards in last 15-minutes. Couldnt tell that it was 11 v 9 at all.
I am happy to forget everything that has happened.
Accept that this was a stressful situation with players coming back from injury, not 100% fit and certainly the side was a long way from being mentally right.
We simply cannot afford to sack him financially and he has achieved what he was brought to do. He now needs backing and we hope and pray that given a close season we come back a different animal next season otherwise we will be relegated very quickly into the season if we play at this level of performances.
Fair enough guys, think you’ve answered my question and hesitation. Think I agree with the consensus (not like there’s a choice anyway) that give him time and a few more players of his choice and let’s see what he’s about.
He could do with cutting the sheeet in the press conferences though. Jeez
Kebab, that's a lot of 'ifs' you bring up. We went
into Sunday knowing we had a historically bad goals
against and a massively inferior GD to Burnley.
Which meant IF Burnley matched us win/draw wise
we were relegated. Who was responsible for that GD?
It wasn't Marsch. We were lucky, yes. Absolutely.
I'm sure every team battling for 17th has had the same
luck. And the team finishing 18th didn't. It's the way
of this beautiful, maddening game.
He could do with cutting the sheeet in the press conferences though. Jeez
^^^^^
Agree with that.
His remit was to keep us up, now board need to support him and give him time.
I struggle with his pressers to be honest and wonder how the players really take it.
Very hard to judge what we're going to get based on those 12 games, but what I would say is that Salzburg is hard to use as accurate measure as their spending dwarfed the rest of their league.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 21 minutes ago
His remit was to keep us up, now board need to support him and give him time.
I struggle with his pressers to be honest and wonder how the players really take it.
Very hard to judge what we're going to get based on those 12 games, but what I would say is that Salzburg is hard to use as accurate measure as their spending dwarfed the rest of their league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right not to read too much in Salzburg domestically but think Batty was referring to the brand of football.. they went toe to toe with Liverpool at anfield. He’s not a defensive manager.
They say that blokes are terribly nostalgic about old girlfriends.
Some of you guys really need to let MB go… and get seduced by Jesse’s skinny jeans.
Normally objective posters are pining for the days when you were at it like bunnies and forgetting the ending where your clothes were chucked on the street and your record collection smashed with a baseball bat.
They say that blokes are terribly nostalgic about old girlfriends.
----
I do miss Monika, Debbie, Jo, Carolien, Katja in particular.
....was Debbie from Dallas?
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 7 minutes ago
....was Debbie from Dallas?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, but Treena, Kim, Janice, Nikki, Vikki and Kimber were
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Page 1 of 2
posted on 23/5/22
Should be looking at getting Cooper in if Forest don't come up.
posted on 23/5/22
I think it’s fairly obvious to all he’ll be here now he’s done his job in keeping us up, it’s difficult to know exactly what to expect really, style of football, choices and selection have been forced by injury, suspension and objective to stay up at any cost.
Hopefully his targets and full pre season, we’ll see something a bit different from the team, looks like a few players coming in he must have discussed should be have stayed up.
posted on 23/5/22
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 27 seconds ago
I think it’s fairly obvious to all he’ll be here now he’s done his job in keeping us up, it’s difficult to know exactly what to expect really, style of football, choices and selection have been forced by injury, suspension and objective to stay up at any cost.
Hopefully his targets and full pre season, we’ll see something a bit different from the team, looks like a few players coming in he must have discussed should be have stayed up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, but that’s what could easily be said about bielsa’s last few months.
You’re right though, not sure realistically I would expect anything different. But he’s not filled me with any confidence and we talk about Radz learning lessons - I hope marsch has too about the league / culture going forward.
posted on 23/5/22
So am I. No faith in him at all. Him being our manager has muted my elation of staying up
But it's better than being in the championship with not much chance of coming straight back up. Never thought we had any chance of being relegated until we fired bielsa. Have to remember though that it's not him spending the money. We have bigger problems in that department. Can we trust orta?
posted on 23/5/22
A14.. I get your nervousness regarding JM and the drastic gear change in style of play under him but I'm prepared to give him a chance with a pre season and half a dozen good quality additions and then judge him.
What I'm most nervous about is Orta's judgement which has been shocking on the whole and I would feel a lot happier with him no where near team recruitment.
Ultimately we will see after about a dozen games next season if your fears are justified or not.
posted on 23/5/22
I think with the right players he’ll do alright, it depends how we invest more importantly. End of the day, he kept us up, we didn’t bottle the final game, he got the depleted squad to complete the objective without falling apart at Brentford which most of us thought would happen.
posted on 23/5/22
Go watch RB Salzburg vs Liverpool. That will tell you
more about what to expect from Marsch given a
summer and additions in the transfer market.
The last 12 games were a Red Adair special. A team
with zero confidence, playing murderball three times a
week to be then thrashed at record levels on match day.
A team dealing with injuries and a stubborn coach who
refused help in January. Playing Bielsa's system that he
drilled into the players over the three previous seasons.
That's what Marsch inherited and was asked to keep up.
As a team, we weren't pretty prior to him getting here.
No way he was going to implement his own style (see
Salzburg). Whether anyone likes how he did it or not.
The fact is he did it. He at least gets this summer
and the first 10 games of next season before we can
kick the bloke to the curb.
I'm more than happy to give the man a chance.
Is it a risk? Yes. Especially when Orta's doing the
grocery shopping. However, Marsch earned this.
posted on 23/5/22
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 8 minutes ago
Fair enough, but that’s what could easily be said about bielsa’s last few months.
You’re right though, not sure realistically I would expect anything different. But he’s not filled me with any confidence and we talk about Radz learning lessons - I hope marsch has too about the league / culture going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bielsa's plans fell apart due to injuries and the small squad mainly, but it was also apparent that teams had adapted to our way of playing and were picking us off at will. Despite this, I had confidence in him putting us back on track after our drubbings in Feb/March and I don't think the club should have sacked him.
Our team over-performed in our first season up. I think that was helped in no small part by us playing a style of football that surprised the other teams. We were also helped by having no crowds I suspect - less pressure, more focus on technique.
Bielsa never countenanced a "plan B" as he had complete faith in his way of doing things, however I think (yeah, whaddo I know?!) that his method of play could only work long-term in the Premiership if he had players of top-six quality throughout the team, so something had to change longer term.
Can Marsch pick up the torch? Nothing I've seen or heard from him so far gives me any confidence. It's fair to say that (given our injuries and league position) that a Ted Lasso boosting confidence would have done as well as anybody. It's also fair to say that we've not had chance to see anything new tactically from him because of the circumstances.
I'm comfortable giving him time to build the squad. Some of the things I read about his football approach suggest he's not a million miles away from Bielsa's way of playing, so he might yet surprise us.
I hope I'm right - I really don't want another season-end like we've just had. My ticker won't take it!!
posted on 23/5/22
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 42 minutes ago
So am I. No faith in him at all. Him being our manager has muted my elation of staying up
But it's better than being in the championship with not much chance of coming straight back up. Never thought we had any chance of being relegated until we fired bielsa. Have to remember though that it's not him spending the money. We have bigger problems in that department. Can we trust orta?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know what you mean….
https://twitter.com/lufc/status/1528469345533296641?s=21&t=OHmcME6cwi08qUZp-A_Mbw
posted on 23/5/22
JM deserves a shot but feck me we need to play a dam site better/nicer next season. He's worked with Aaronson, so could be a big hit if they work in tandem.
He's done his job and we should all be very appreciative of JM
posted on 23/5/22
comment by Batty 🇺🇦 (U4664)
posted 29 minutes ago
Go watch RB Salzburg vs Liverpool. That will tell you
more about what to expect from Marsch given a
summer and additions in the transfer market.
The last 12 games were a Red Adair special. A team
with zero confidence, playing murderball three times a
week to be then thrashed at record levels on match day.
A team dealing with injuries and a stubborn coach who
refused help in January. Playing Bielsa's system that he
drilled into the players over the three previous seasons.
That's what Marsch inherited and was asked to keep up.
As a team, we weren't pretty prior to him getting here.
No way he was going to implement his own style (see
Salzburg). Whether anyone likes how he did it or not.
The fact is he did it. He at least gets this summer
and the first 10 games of next season before we can
kick the bloke to the curb.
I'm more than happy to give the man a chance.
Is it a risk? Yes. Especially when Orta's doing the
grocery shopping. However, Marsch earned this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nailed it there Batty.
posted on 23/5/22
Orta on the pitch at the end, fist pumping and running around like he’s the one who scored the winner, tells me he’s mr untouchable and mr unaccountable
Needs to really up his game in the transfer market or we’ll go down next season, does matter if we have Marsch or someone else
posted on 23/5/22
I’d safely say that if the bucket man was in charge you wouldn’t even have a sniff of needing something yesterday.
You’d already be gone, more’s the pity.
posted on 23/5/22
Listen it was great but MB is LUFC history now - We all need to get weaned off Marcelo and give JM a break.
His first remit has been accomplished and I'm with Batty on this one - He has had success at a European club.
I dont believe for one moment that we will go the small squad route again - if we've learnt anything from where we nearly found ourselves until yesterday evening, it is a decent sized quality squad is essential at this level of football or you will very probably flirt with relegation.
posted on 23/5/22
2 months ago:
“I believe in a project that is one of Marcelo Bielsa’s legacies. If you believe in youth development you need to prove it. Our idea is 18 professionals and the other four players all with the under-23s because we believe in youth development and want to give responsibility to the academy,” he said.
“It’s true that it’s risky. It’s true that if you have these four players with more experience perhaps the results in the short-term will be better. But it’s true on the other side that you create a lot of bad ways."
“I create these answers because it’s worth millions long-term for the club. To build players is really important.”
posted on 23/5/22
Already detailed previously i have not been impressed to date. Talks a good game....kind of.....actions speak louder for me.
12 games
1 great unlucky performance v Leicester away
1 clinical performance v Watford away
1 lucky performance v Norwich at home when his substitutions almost cost us 2 points.
1 lucky performance v Wolves when the home side was coasting until a silly red card.
7 poor performances including an absolute shocker at home to Villa, poor discipline against Arsenal and Chelsea.
which brings me on to Brentford.....
How lucky were we! The opposition played the first half in a low gear and then having stepped up in the second half were reduced to 9-men.
I thought the first half was decent. I was pleased with the side at half time. However, when we were leading 1-0 and Burnley were losing 2-0 i felt the game management was poor
- we should have sat deeper.
- we should have been allowing balls to roll away to take up valuable seconds. Several times Leeds players stopped or gave the ball for Brentford to get the game moving again.
I didnt really see us change anything at this point other than a tweak in formation.
The game then changed massively. Brentford had scored / Burnley had scored. Brentford were down to 9-men and 1 goal, yes just 1 goal from Burnley sent us down. We were playing against 9-men and you honestly couldnt tell. Phillips had to take a yellow card to prevent them having a 2 on 1!!!. At this point i was screaming for us to go score the goal to keep us up - not rely on elsewhere. Fortune favors the brave. Surely Ghandi would have said go score a goal ffs. 14 minutes we played against 9-men without once creating a single opportunity, not even a 2 on 1 scenario. We now know Wiegworst was literally 1/2 cm away from Burnley getting the draw. In the end it took a very fortunate deflection to gain the win.
I just did not see anything from the manager in terms of managing the situation. Yes it all turned out in well in the end but i was honestly disappointed again.
These aftermath comments amaze me ......
""We tried to communicate that. We wanted to win the game and end it so Burnley couldn't have a lucky punch to seal our fate." - this is absolute rubbish. Never created one chance in 14 minutes v 9-men. Never pushed players forwards in last 15-minutes. Couldnt tell that it was 11 v 9 at all.
I am happy to forget everything that has happened.
Accept that this was a stressful situation with players coming back from injury, not 100% fit and certainly the side was a long way from being mentally right.
We simply cannot afford to sack him financially and he has achieved what he was brought to do. He now needs backing and we hope and pray that given a close season we come back a different animal next season otherwise we will be relegated very quickly into the season if we play at this level of performances.
posted on 23/5/22
Fair enough guys, think you’ve answered my question and hesitation. Think I agree with the consensus (not like there’s a choice anyway) that give him time and a few more players of his choice and let’s see what he’s about.
He could do with cutting the sheeet in the press conferences though. Jeez
posted on 23/5/22
Kebab, that's a lot of 'ifs' you bring up. We went
into Sunday knowing we had a historically bad goals
against and a massively inferior GD to Burnley.
Which meant IF Burnley matched us win/draw wise
we were relegated. Who was responsible for that GD?
It wasn't Marsch. We were lucky, yes. Absolutely.
I'm sure every team battling for 17th has had the same
luck. And the team finishing 18th didn't. It's the way
of this beautiful, maddening game.
posted on 23/5/22
He could do with cutting the sheeet in the press conferences though. Jeez
^^^^^
Agree with that.
posted on 23/5/22
His remit was to keep us up, now board need to support him and give him time.
I struggle with his pressers to be honest and wonder how the players really take it.
Very hard to judge what we're going to get based on those 12 games, but what I would say is that Salzburg is hard to use as accurate measure as their spending dwarfed the rest of their league.
posted on 23/5/22
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 21 minutes ago
His remit was to keep us up, now board need to support him and give him time.
I struggle with his pressers to be honest and wonder how the players really take it.
Very hard to judge what we're going to get based on those 12 games, but what I would say is that Salzburg is hard to use as accurate measure as their spending dwarfed the rest of their league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right not to read too much in Salzburg domestically but think Batty was referring to the brand of football.. they went toe to toe with Liverpool at anfield. He’s not a defensive manager.
posted on 23/5/22
They say that blokes are terribly nostalgic about old girlfriends.
Some of you guys really need to let MB go… and get seduced by Jesse’s skinny jeans.
Normally objective posters are pining for the days when you were at it like bunnies and forgetting the ending where your clothes were chucked on the street and your record collection smashed with a baseball bat.
posted on 23/5/22
They say that blokes are terribly nostalgic about old girlfriends.
----
I do miss Monika, Debbie, Jo, Carolien, Katja in particular.
posted on 23/5/22
....was Debbie from Dallas?
posted on 23/5/22
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 7 minutes ago
....was Debbie from Dallas?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no, but Treena, Kim, Janice, Nikki, Vikki and Kimber were
Page 1 of 2