Interesting article, I can't say I disagree with much based on what I've seen.
This won’t be a new thing for Conte to have to deal with, although of course it’s new for his Spurs side.
Kane’s interview was interesting after the game, he said they appreciate games will be tight and that’s where set pieces will come in to win games.
Whilst I’m sure Conte wants us to blow teams away, I don’t think he’ll be too worried about right games, trusting our fire power will eventually get and take a chance.
The first half was boring as fk
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
Wolves and Chelsea were set up very differently, Chelsea cut out the pass to the wide CBs and midfielders continually whereas wolves were happy to sit back in a deeper block.
The outcome for both games was different as a result, it was easier to break past Chelsea’s defence last season because they played a higher line and took more risks defensively. Wolves, however, played very conservatively which is why we had much more ease of possession but very few/no times where our team managed to successfully run beyond the defensive line
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In many ways it does conserve energy for a seasons campaign. And probably why we can move up gears in second half but it does mean we won't blow away teams like we should.
Conte likes to progress the ball quickly through the lines - pass from back line to midfield, lay-off, quick pass from midfield to front players, lay-off, quick pass to release the runner behind the opposition back line.
Chelsea pressed fiercely to stop the first ball reaching its target, which is why Bentancur and especially Hojbjerg were ineffective - the ball just wasn't reaching them. The lanes for the first pass were blocked off by the pressing player and so the centre halves were rushed into long punts that didn't stick.
The flipside was that their forward players were pulled out wider so they had noone in the #9 slot to receive any quick balls when they won it back. And Spurs were already defending deep so Chelsea couldn't easily get in behind. So it became a bit of a stalemate where Chelsea had loads of the ball but didn't do much with it.
2nd half was different tbf, their pressing slowed and the game opened up a lot more
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In many ways it does conserve energy for a seasons campaign. And probably why we can move up gears in second half but it does mean we won't blow away teams like we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think our run of decent form in the 2nd half of last season showed that once we score the game opens up and we can score more, but without having to change the way we play. We handed out some pretty decent thrashing last season so i think its wrong to state we will not blow teams away, scoring 5 three times and 4 twice from Feb to May.
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
'I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday'
You've been saying the same thing every week since Conte joined
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 14 minutes ago
'I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday'
You've been saying the same thing every week since Conte joined
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he going to be right at some point.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 50 minutes ago
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So do I, they have some very quick forwards, plenty of pace out wide, will hit us from the start, if we start slow again could be behind early
Good bit of tactical analysis Devonshire
Load of faackin rubbish.
343 vs 433 so how are we over run in midfield?
Anyways, those formations last about 1 minute.
personnel on the pitch had nothing to do with it?
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What gets me is people who think our win vs Wolves was fortunte.
The facts are that Wolves had a great first half for the reasons discussed above. It was contributed to by a slow passive approach from us and that isnot how Conte wants us to play. We came out in the 2nd and were more aggressive, more forward and quick thinking and we played further up the pitch. Hit the post. Hit the bar, Son one-on-one, and scored from a set piece. That isnt fortunate. Keeping Wolves out wasnt fortunate, it was a function of the way we played (usual defensive solidity) and the way they played (loading midfield) . Its all very well them loading the midfield but if they have few options up front then their approach is flawed.
Any team can make any game against any opponent a tight difficult affair through their use of tactics, and teams will come to WHL and do that.
Both Wolves and Chelsea games were highly tactical.....both teams set up to frustrate us first and foremost, stop us getting the ball and being dangerous. They want us to change our tactics to make us more open. If you think of the CFC game, both 352, but we went 4 at the back chasing an equaliser. They changed to a 4 then back to a 3 and it was then when we had a back 4 and they had wingbacks that they created the overload found the the spare man, James, and scored.
I thought Tuchel's tactics were spot on in the way they stop us playing. As said it follows on from BHA last season but comes at the cost of having a striker on the pitch. Chelsea scored from a corner and from an overload which was a result of us going to a back 4 vs their front 3 + wingbacks.
Conte is pragmatic in that a win is a win. He will know that a game like Wolves will happen a lot, he will trust our defence and organisation keeps us in the game and that our attacking quality will come through....and if it doesn then there are now options on teh bench to change it up. For all Chelsea's 'dominance' they had 3 shots on target to our 5 and 2 of their 3 went in For me the number of chances you concede is the more important stat than possession, although i admit they are linked to a degree.
What i would like to see is us respond in those moments like vs CFC and 1st half vs Wolves to wrestle more control. Whether that is done by leaving Son up field for a bit and just banging it over the top for him, or Kulu coming infield a bit to add numbers, the CBs stepping in to midfield more to add more numbers and commit more players. These things can happen in moments, or for short periods to gainsome control in games, rather than more fundamental changing of systems. But what the WOlves game showed was that with the same team and formation, it was just necessary to go through the gears a bit more and be more offensive thinking that changed the tide of the game, nothing more fundamental than upping our intensity.
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 18 minutes ago
Load of faackin rubbish.
343 vs 433 so how are we over run in midfield?
Anyways, those formations last about 1 minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because 2 of our 4 are wingbacks, so hugging the sideline.
Where as the opponents 3 are central vs our central 2.
Does this need explaining?
I don't think you are right though, it isnt as simple as "have more bodies in midfield" as we beat many teams last season with more bodies in midfield and didn't look like we struggled.
More of our issue is the supply on the ball, and to an extent because Dier hasn't been as good on the ball as last season and in yesterdays game Sanchez is a considerable step-down on the ball compared to Romero.
Dier's long balls have been awful lately. He doesn't put any check on the ball and overhits it. But he will no doubt fluke one soon, which leads to a goal and everyone will lick his backside Z z z.
Good article Devon but since about 6 games into Conte'a reign we have been a defensive minded team who are happy to give up possession and let the oppo attack us whilst we wait to nick it and start a counter.
Our average formation is 5 2 3 in matches because we try and put every man behind the ball. It's boring as funk and predictable and you waffled on for about 4 paragraphs too many trying to tell us something we already know 😁
It's interesting that so many Spurs fans think they know better than Conte when it comes to tactics, despite his pedigree and many years of experience at the top of his field. I often read comments suggesting that if we just play 4-3-3 or play more attacking football we'll suddenly start dominating every game.
comment by Brother (U20548)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's interesting that so many Spurs fans think they know better than Conte when it comes to tactics, despite his pedigree and many years of experience at the top of his field. I often read comments suggesting that if we just play 4-3-3 or play more attacking football we'll suddenly start dominating every game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We would have more of the ball. Nothing wrong with that is there? Conte is just a modern Claudio Ranieri. Defensive minded and do not concede first. Not knocking it because he has been successful but lets not pretend he is some tactical genius or anything. He is still fruitcake. His brand of football is boring as hell and I love him 🇮🇹
comment by LukaBrasi COYS I like it, I like it, I like i... (U22178)
posted 17 minutes ago
Dier's long balls have been awful lately. He doesn't put any check on the ball and overhits it. But he will no doubt fluke one soon, which leads to a goal and everyone will lick his backside Z z z.
Good article Devon but since about 6 games into Conte'a reign we have been a defensive minded team who are happy to give up possession and let the oppo attack us whilst we wait to nick it and start a counter.
Our average formation is 5 2 3 in matches because we try and put every man behind the ball. It's boring as funk and predictable and you waffled on for about 4 paragraphs too many trying to tell us something we already know 😁
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot help it if you have a simple comprehension of football and a selective memory.
You say our average formation is 532 but who's forward when we attack. Who scored our first goal this season, who has the most assists - Yes, the wing backs.
We may defend with many at the back but we also attack in numbers and the challenge is being more effective in the transition, because when it doesn't work we get dominated like at certain times in games this season.
Generally if you take our decent form over the last 15 games or so, rarely are we dominated in possession anymore.
I agree a key element to this is ability out from the back. Dier usually does ok but does seem to have a problem with club selection and Romero's ability to link with Emerson/Doherty & Kulu was very effective.
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Tactics against Spurs
Page 1 of 2
posted on 23/8/22
Interesting article, I can't say I disagree with much based on what I've seen.
posted on 23/8/22
This won’t be a new thing for Conte to have to deal with, although of course it’s new for his Spurs side.
Kane’s interview was interesting after the game, he said they appreciate games will be tight and that’s where set pieces will come in to win games.
Whilst I’m sure Conte wants us to blow teams away, I don’t think he’ll be too worried about right games, trusting our fire power will eventually get and take a chance.
posted on 23/8/22
The first half was boring as fk
posted on 23/8/22
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
posted on 23/8/22
Wolves and Chelsea were set up very differently, Chelsea cut out the pass to the wide CBs and midfielders continually whereas wolves were happy to sit back in a deeper block.
The outcome for both games was different as a result, it was easier to break past Chelsea’s defence last season because they played a higher line and took more risks defensively. Wolves, however, played very conservatively which is why we had much more ease of possession but very few/no times where our team managed to successfully run beyond the defensive line
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In many ways it does conserve energy for a seasons campaign. And probably why we can move up gears in second half but it does mean we won't blow away teams like we should.
posted on 23/8/22
Conte likes to progress the ball quickly through the lines - pass from back line to midfield, lay-off, quick pass from midfield to front players, lay-off, quick pass to release the runner behind the opposition back line.
Chelsea pressed fiercely to stop the first ball reaching its target, which is why Bentancur and especially Hojbjerg were ineffective - the ball just wasn't reaching them. The lanes for the first pass were blocked off by the pressing player and so the centre halves were rushed into long punts that didn't stick.
The flipside was that their forward players were pulled out wider so they had noone in the #9 slot to receive any quick balls when they won it back. And Spurs were already defending deep so Chelsea couldn't easily get in behind. So it became a bit of a stalemate where Chelsea had loads of the ball but didn't do much with it.
2nd half was different tbf, their pressing slowed and the game opened up a lot more
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Big Deki Energy (U3338)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
I wonder sometimes whether the team go out there thinking or instructed to get a grasp of what the opponents are doing, see how they are setting up and looking to play. Certainly with teams like Wolves and Brighton, they pick 6 or 7 midfielders so its hard to always know who will start where and what the formation will be etc. As we observe the opposition in the early moments of the game, we start slowly while they get on a play.....just a theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The players are definitely following Conte's instructions, that is for certain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, watch how they always reset play with dier holding on to the ball whilst the team gets back into shape. It's very methodical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very much a 'percentage play' type of approach from Spurs.
I have no problem with this. I do think we need another AM to be able to do something differently when needed, some who will put the ball at risk a little bit more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In many ways it does conserve energy for a seasons campaign. And probably why we can move up gears in second half but it does mean we won't blow away teams like we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think our run of decent form in the 2nd half of last season showed that once we score the game opens up and we can score more, but without having to change the way we play. We handed out some pretty decent thrashing last season so i think its wrong to state we will not blow teams away, scoring 5 three times and 4 twice from Feb to May.
posted on 23/8/22
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
posted on 23/8/22
'I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday'
You've been saying the same thing every week since Conte joined
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 14 minutes ago
'I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday'
You've been saying the same thing every week since Conte joined
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he going to be right at some point.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 50 minutes ago
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So do I, they have some very quick forwards, plenty of pace out wide, will hit us from the start, if we start slow again could be behind early
posted on 23/8/22
Good bit of tactical analysis Devonshire
posted on 23/8/22
Load of faackin rubbish.
343 vs 433 so how are we over run in midfield?
Anyways, those formations last about 1 minute.
posted on 23/8/22
personnel on the pitch had nothing to do with it?
posted on 23/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Personally I think in this day and age you rarely win a thing by losing control of a game and counter attacking. The game is now about control, high lines and pressing from the front. That's how the best teams do it. If we routinely get outnumbered in midfield, we will lose more than we win, or at least lose control, if not games.
Conte has to be flexible. This is what gets me about some of our fans. They seem to think that a fortunate 3 points against Wolves was all part of some deeper masterplan. It's not. Conte would have wanted more control. Conte would have wanted more goals but the players we have and the formation and tactics we play make it really, really hard.
Everyone seems to think that buying players over 6ft is again some masterplan but they forget that it was Hazard who won the title for Chelsea that year and Eriksen's form at the turn of the year at Inter.
Conte does get things wrong but he's a cautious manager. He won't change or compromise on the 3 at the back and two holding, which leaves us really dry in midfield and lacking any real creativity. All the time it's working I'll be happy but we've not pulled up any trees so far this season and we only played well in one game, against a Southampton side who are traditionally expansive and allow the opposition so much room in behind.
Lots to work on. I've got a feeling we're in for a bit of a rude awakening to Forest on Sunday.
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What gets me is people who think our win vs Wolves was fortunte.
The facts are that Wolves had a great first half for the reasons discussed above. It was contributed to by a slow passive approach from us and that isnot how Conte wants us to play. We came out in the 2nd and were more aggressive, more forward and quick thinking and we played further up the pitch. Hit the post. Hit the bar, Son one-on-one, and scored from a set piece. That isnt fortunate. Keeping Wolves out wasnt fortunate, it was a function of the way we played (usual defensive solidity) and the way they played (loading midfield) . Its all very well them loading the midfield but if they have few options up front then their approach is flawed.
Any team can make any game against any opponent a tight difficult affair through their use of tactics, and teams will come to WHL and do that.
Both Wolves and Chelsea games were highly tactical.....both teams set up to frustrate us first and foremost, stop us getting the ball and being dangerous. They want us to change our tactics to make us more open. If you think of the CFC game, both 352, but we went 4 at the back chasing an equaliser. They changed to a 4 then back to a 3 and it was then when we had a back 4 and they had wingbacks that they created the overload found the the spare man, James, and scored.
I thought Tuchel's tactics were spot on in the way they stop us playing. As said it follows on from BHA last season but comes at the cost of having a striker on the pitch. Chelsea scored from a corner and from an overload which was a result of us going to a back 4 vs their front 3 + wingbacks.
Conte is pragmatic in that a win is a win. He will know that a game like Wolves will happen a lot, he will trust our defence and organisation keeps us in the game and that our attacking quality will come through....and if it doesn then there are now options on teh bench to change it up. For all Chelsea's 'dominance' they had 3 shots on target to our 5 and 2 of their 3 went in For me the number of chances you concede is the more important stat than possession, although i admit they are linked to a degree.
What i would like to see is us respond in those moments like vs CFC and 1st half vs Wolves to wrestle more control. Whether that is done by leaving Son up field for a bit and just banging it over the top for him, or Kulu coming infield a bit to add numbers, the CBs stepping in to midfield more to add more numbers and commit more players. These things can happen in moments, or for short periods to gainsome control in games, rather than more fundamental changing of systems. But what the WOlves game showed was that with the same team and formation, it was just necessary to go through the gears a bit more and be more offensive thinking that changed the tide of the game, nothing more fundamental than upping our intensity.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 18 minutes ago
Load of faackin rubbish.
343 vs 433 so how are we over run in midfield?
Anyways, those formations last about 1 minute.
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Because 2 of our 4 are wingbacks, so hugging the sideline.
Where as the opponents 3 are central vs our central 2.
Does this need explaining?
posted on 23/8/22
I don't think you are right though, it isnt as simple as "have more bodies in midfield" as we beat many teams last season with more bodies in midfield and didn't look like we struggled.
More of our issue is the supply on the ball, and to an extent because Dier hasn't been as good on the ball as last season and in yesterdays game Sanchez is a considerable step-down on the ball compared to Romero.
posted on 23/8/22
Dier's long balls have been awful lately. He doesn't put any check on the ball and overhits it. But he will no doubt fluke one soon, which leads to a goal and everyone will lick his backside Z z z.
Good article Devon but since about 6 games into Conte'a reign we have been a defensive minded team who are happy to give up possession and let the oppo attack us whilst we wait to nick it and start a counter.
Our average formation is 5 2 3 in matches because we try and put every man behind the ball. It's boring as funk and predictable and you waffled on for about 4 paragraphs too many trying to tell us something we already know 😁
posted on 23/8/22
It's interesting that so many Spurs fans think they know better than Conte when it comes to tactics, despite his pedigree and many years of experience at the top of his field. I often read comments suggesting that if we just play 4-3-3 or play more attacking football we'll suddenly start dominating every game.
posted on 23/8/22
comment by Brother (U20548)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's interesting that so many Spurs fans think they know better than Conte when it comes to tactics, despite his pedigree and many years of experience at the top of his field. I often read comments suggesting that if we just play 4-3-3 or play more attacking football we'll suddenly start dominating every game.
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We would have more of the ball. Nothing wrong with that is there? Conte is just a modern Claudio Ranieri. Defensive minded and do not concede first. Not knocking it because he has been successful but lets not pretend he is some tactical genius or anything. He is still fruitcake. His brand of football is boring as hell and I love him 🇮🇹
posted on 23/8/22
comment by LukaBrasi COYS I like it, I like it, I like i... (U22178)
posted 17 minutes ago
Dier's long balls have been awful lately. He doesn't put any check on the ball and overhits it. But he will no doubt fluke one soon, which leads to a goal and everyone will lick his backside Z z z.
Good article Devon but since about 6 games into Conte'a reign we have been a defensive minded team who are happy to give up possession and let the oppo attack us whilst we wait to nick it and start a counter.
Our average formation is 5 2 3 in matches because we try and put every man behind the ball. It's boring as funk and predictable and you waffled on for about 4 paragraphs too many trying to tell us something we already know 😁
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I cannot help it if you have a simple comprehension of football and a selective memory.
You say our average formation is 532 but who's forward when we attack. Who scored our first goal this season, who has the most assists - Yes, the wing backs.
We may defend with many at the back but we also attack in numbers and the challenge is being more effective in the transition, because when it doesn't work we get dominated like at certain times in games this season.
Generally if you take our decent form over the last 15 games or so, rarely are we dominated in possession anymore.
I agree a key element to this is ability out from the back. Dier usually does ok but does seem to have a problem with club selection and Romero's ability to link with Emerson/Doherty & Kulu was very effective.
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