comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 8 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Decent post, cheers
comment by (K̇ash) I'm still the Mané - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I'm already paying more than that. Will I get a discount in October?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The cap isn't on how much you pay, it's on the tariff charges. You'll still pay for what you use and that's unlimited. If you're already paying more, you are about to be in for a very big shock. Might be time to shut down that weed farm.
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 8 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Decent post, cheers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, very insightful.
My main issue is that the government aren't doing more to subsidise households and businesses. If they don't intervene then there will be a very deep recession. Many households won't be able to pay it, there will be no disposable income so many businesses will collapse.
Windfall taxes and more government money covering the bulk of the increase lseems the only solution to me.
As with water in the UK, the energy crisis is compounded by privatisation. The huge profits could've gone on building a far more resilient system. Storing energy, creating more renewable sources and even just saving some profits for rainy days like we're about to have.
Germany has really fecked up too, relying massively on Russia and not bothering to keep its stores remotely filled during the good times when it could've, along with of course looking at alternatives to relying so heavy on Russia generally. Guess what the former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder now does for a living? Yep works for Russian state owned energy firms.
There's reasons for this current utter madness but there's also many reasons why it's far worse than it had to be and it starts with a corrupt political system.
Yeah, I never really understood the public acceptance of the UK ‘not relying on Russia’ for gas tbh.
Whilst we might not rely on Russia to supply us, we greatly rely on them supplying other countries.
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 minute ago
Yeah, I never really understood the public acceptance of the UK ‘not relying on Russia’ for gas tbh.
Whilst we might not rely on Russia to supply us, we greatly rely on them supplying other countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn't it one of the many lies/misdirections spouted by the Tories early in this crisis?
I don’t know why the government don’t just simplify things by getting everyone’s wages paid directly to the treasury, then they can’t send a food parcel out to your address each month with an item of woollen clothing and some candles for the winter, then in 10 yrs time they can say we now own your property so don’t get any ideas about leaving it to your kids
I wonder how many people moaning about the current state of the country actually voted Brexit. War and Covid haven't helped but Brexit is as much to blame for a lot of other rising costs and red tape.
Staggering these imbeciles still defend it.
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this sounds bad
Meanwhile as strikes are taking hold everywhere as workers are attempting to achieve a pay rise lower than inflation, the CEO’s of Britain’s top 100 or so companies received salary rises averaging 36%
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great comment!
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where the media also gets completely confused is the narrative around energy suppliers. You’re right, there’s a big difference between the oil and gas extraction companies like Shell, Total and Gazprom (who also have retail arms of course) and the energy retailers - 30 of whom went bust last year because of the price cap stopping them passing increasing costs to customers.
The retail arms of energy suppliers in the U.K. are not making money. Most of them (particularly the big 6) have been loss making for years. Yes other areas of their global business (Centrica and eon for eg) make large profits which should be used to support customers but it’s the oil and gas shippers that are absolutely raking it in right now not the retailers.
The media have us believe that energy suppliers are the ones rolling in it and therefore we need to nationalise them asap. If we nationalised the big 6 for example, it would make very little difference to where we are now. The government would still have to source imported gas at record prices and wouldn’t be able to cover the cost to consumers.
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities to support vulnerable customers.
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep but problem is Brexit. Because of Brexit the govt are now scared that they can’t trade their way out of the economic crisis. They are desperate for investment and equally desperate not to put off companies like Shell (and other non energy companies) for eg from investing in the U.K. They worry the windfall tax makes it more appealing for them to invest in other countries and that it sends the signal to investors that the U.K. govt will impose an unscheduled tax at any moment
We’ve effectively snookered ourselves as an island and we’ve got no choice but to batten down the hatches and wait out the storm. There are massive lessons to be learned here though and I don’t believe it’s as simple as nationalisation. It’s about what you make companies do with their profits, what you invest in as a govt to become energy resilient and the overall strategy you take
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep but problem is Brexit. Because of Brexit the govt are now scared that they can’t trade their way out of the economic crisis. They are desperate for investment and equally desperate not to put off companies like Shell (and other non energy companies) for eg from investing in the U.K. They worry the windfall tax makes it more appealing for them to invest in other countries and that it sends the signal to investors that the U.K. govt will impose an unscheduled tax at any moment
We’ve effectively snookered ourselves as an island and we’ve got no choice but to batten down the hatches and wait out the storm. There are massive lessons to be learned here though and I don’t believe it’s as simple as nationalisation. It’s about what you make companies do with their profits, what you invest in as a govt to become energy resilient and the overall strategy you take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Challenge is that 90% of people in this world can only deal in "simple" solutions. That isn't a dig, I am probably one of them even though I try to fight it.
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 43 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally am a MASSIVE REMOANER! And I am proud of it! I loved being part of the EU as I felt that it gave me more freedom as an individual. Freedom to live an work in 28 countries vs 4, 3 of which I have absolutely no interest in even visiting, never mind settling down or having a career in.
But this whole nonsense about naming and shaming people because they have a different voting preference is so wrong! It ends up turning people on each other rather than focusing attention on holding whomever is in charge accountable.
There isn't a single politician in government or opposition that thinks Brexit was a good idea. Those that publicly back it are only doing so as part of some sort of self-serving bastardry. All those currently in favour of Brexit, were at one stage or another, supporters of Britain in the EU. It's nonsensical to think otherwise.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and your family are probably more moderate. Now think about all those families that have been broken up and don't talk to each other anymore because of the tribal politics.
I still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
comment by add912 (U9189)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and your family are probably more moderate. Now think about all those families that have been broken up and don't talk to each other anymore because of the tribal politics.
I still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's crazy. No, we accept that everyone has a right to an opinion as she had hers but that will never get in the way of any relationship.
It was definitely symptomatic of an age where the trust was gonna between the government and the public. So much so that, like a child, if you tell it to do one thing, it decides to do another as an act of rebellion. Cameron wanted us in so the public voted us out. Simple as that.
Everyone talks about what we lose economically, and boy have we lost a lot, but we've also undone so much good work culturally. The divisions of war, united under one system. It was perfect and we dropped a hand grenade in it. It was completely nonsensical and it should never have been put in the public's hands.
You're right about your right to be a remoaner. I will never, ever understand those that say 'we've left, get used to it" or "put up and shut up". Sorry, what???? What change for the good has ever occurred in this country without people fighting back? That's what democracy is there for. Me, you and the rest of the 48% have a right to continue to shout for what we believe in and no moron with a slim majority should tell me otherwise. It's an absolute joke that line. Like any good protestor, striker or freedom fighter, I'll shut up when the tide turns. All the time it's utterly cataclysmic for this country, I'll continue to scream and shout about how effing awful the whole thing is, as we all should.
Nothing to do with Putin. Shortsighted governments, nimbys, and green activists have led us to this point. We could have easily secured domestic energy supply with nuclear a long time ago, there was no real argument against it. Our reliance on imports was never going to last.
still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
——————-
of the miners strike of the 80s
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 43 minutes ago
There isn't a single politician in government or opposition that thinks Brexit was a good idea. Those that publicly back it are only doing so as part of some sort of self-serving bastardry. All those currently in favour of Brexit, were at one stage or another, supporters of Britain in the EU. It's nonsensical to think otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brainwashed by Farage and the far right.
Sign in if you want to comment
New Energy Price Cap Announced
Page 2 of 4
posted on 26/8/22
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 8 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Decent post, cheers
posted on 26/8/22
comment by (K̇ash) I'm still the Mané - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I'm already paying more than that. Will I get a discount in October?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The cap isn't on how much you pay, it's on the tariff charges. You'll still pay for what you use and that's unlimited. If you're already paying more, you are about to be in for a very big shock. Might be time to shut down that weed farm.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 8 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Decent post, cheers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, very insightful.
My main issue is that the government aren't doing more to subsidise households and businesses. If they don't intervene then there will be a very deep recession. Many households won't be able to pay it, there will be no disposable income so many businesses will collapse.
Windfall taxes and more government money covering the bulk of the increase lseems the only solution to me.
posted on 26/8/22
As with water in the UK, the energy crisis is compounded by privatisation. The huge profits could've gone on building a far more resilient system. Storing energy, creating more renewable sources and even just saving some profits for rainy days like we're about to have.
Germany has really fecked up too, relying massively on Russia and not bothering to keep its stores remotely filled during the good times when it could've, along with of course looking at alternatives to relying so heavy on Russia generally. Guess what the former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder now does for a living? Yep works for Russian state owned energy firms.
There's reasons for this current utter madness but there's also many reasons why it's far worse than it had to be and it starts with a corrupt political system.
posted on 26/8/22
Yeah, I never really understood the public acceptance of the UK ‘not relying on Russia’ for gas tbh.
Whilst we might not rely on Russia to supply us, we greatly rely on them supplying other countries.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 minute ago
Yeah, I never really understood the public acceptance of the UK ‘not relying on Russia’ for gas tbh.
Whilst we might not rely on Russia to supply us, we greatly rely on them supplying other countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn't it one of the many lies/misdirections spouted by the Tories early in this crisis?
posted on 26/8/22
I don’t know why the government don’t just simplify things by getting everyone’s wages paid directly to the treasury, then they can’t send a food parcel out to your address each month with an item of woollen clothing and some candles for the winter, then in 10 yrs time they can say we now own your property so don’t get any ideas about leaving it to your kids
posted on 26/8/22
I wonder how many people moaning about the current state of the country actually voted Brexit. War and Covid haven't helped but Brexit is as much to blame for a lot of other rising costs and red tape.
Staggering these imbeciles still defend it.
posted on 26/8/22
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this sounds bad
posted on 26/8/22
Meanwhile as strikes are taking hold everywhere as workers are attempting to achieve a pay rise lower than inflation, the CEO’s of Britain’s top 100 or so companies received salary rises averaging 36%
posted on 26/8/22
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
I work in the energy industry and have done for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from a wholesale prices perspective, there has been nothing like this ever. What’s going on at the moment is completely unprecedented. It’s not the governments doing (yes you can argue they should be doing much more) - it comes down to the simple economics of supply and demand.
Even before Putin started using gas as a political weapon, demand bounced back post covid far quicker than supplies of LNG for eg could keep up. That sent prices through the roof. What you now have is the Russians shutting off Nord Stream 1 for 3 whole days (which europe depends on) and willing to keep doing that whenever they feel the need to
I’ve heard people get very confused over the UKs reliance on Russian gas. It’s simple - the U.K. doesn’t rely on russia for its gas directly - it relies heavily on flows from Europe (mainly Norway) and LNG shipments. Because of that we are completely exposed to global gas prices - we don’t produce enough of our own and we have to ship it in. So what Putin does completely affects us - when he cuts supply to Germany, it sends the price of gas we import through Europe through the roof. To exacerbate things more - we rely hugely on gas to generate electricity, mainly because renewables are intermittent and can’t keep the lights on.
The French govt are going to stop bankrolling their citizens for the cost of energy because it’s nearly bankrupting the country. Macron is already admitting this. Germany’s response is to limit electricity usage and potentially bring in blackouts. There is no easy answers here.
I have to say that looking back over the last 20 years, it’s clear that both Labour and the Tories have failed badly on energy policy (as have Europe) which has brought us to this point. Not enough investment in energy storage, not reforming the broken wholesale market, ploughing ahead with renewables without considering location or security of supply and a total dependence on Russia and European imports.
This won’t get fixed anytime soon - the prices will drop at some point next year but I’m afraid it’s minimum £2000 a year plus for the next couple of years in my view
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Great comment!
posted on 26/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
I never thought I'd say this as I don't believe in socialism in its purest form. It tends to stop enterprise and bring any economy to a grinding halt but given what's now happening with the fuel crisis, we have to look at renationalising.
This is nothing to do with inflation. It's everything to do with Gazprom in Russia no longer being the competitive alternative so the current suppliers know they've got us by the nuts. If you corner the market, you can raise the price beyond inflationary levels. It's how every capitalist movement begins to eat itself to death. What follows this will be catastrophic. Services, including the NHS grinding to a halt before socialism begins to take hold. I think it'll be another 10 years before we see ourselves out of this mess and with no EU ties, climbing back up the ladder is going to be a real struggle. I think we're entering an age of poverty and destruction the likes of which this country has never truly known, not in the last century or so anyway.
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Where the media also gets completely confused is the narrative around energy suppliers. You’re right, there’s a big difference between the oil and gas extraction companies like Shell, Total and Gazprom (who also have retail arms of course) and the energy retailers - 30 of whom went bust last year because of the price cap stopping them passing increasing costs to customers.
The retail arms of energy suppliers in the U.K. are not making money. Most of them (particularly the big 6) have been loss making for years. Yes other areas of their global business (Centrica and eon for eg) make large profits which should be used to support customers but it’s the oil and gas shippers that are absolutely raking it in right now not the retailers.
The media have us believe that energy suppliers are the ones rolling in it and therefore we need to nationalise them asap. If we nationalised the big 6 for example, it would make very little difference to where we are now. The government would still have to source imported gas at record prices and wouldn’t be able to cover the cost to consumers.
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities to support vulnerable customers.
posted on 26/8/22
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
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Yep but problem is Brexit. Because of Brexit the govt are now scared that they can’t trade their way out of the economic crisis. They are desperate for investment and equally desperate not to put off companies like Shell (and other non energy companies) for eg from investing in the U.K. They worry the windfall tax makes it more appealing for them to invest in other countries and that it sends the signal to investors that the U.K. govt will impose an unscheduled tax at any moment
We’ve effectively snookered ourselves as an island and we’ve got no choice but to batten down the hatches and wait out the storm. There are massive lessons to be learned here though and I don’t believe it’s as simple as nationalisation. It’s about what you make companies do with their profits, what you invest in as a govt to become energy resilient and the overall strategy you take
posted on 26/8/22
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by 99 Problems (U12353)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
What the government should be doing is increasing the windfall tax on oil and gas extraction and then forcing large corporate suppliers to use the profits from their other activities.......
-----------------------------------
Isn't this what everyone inc the Lab gov ,has been saying for months, but just being ignored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep but problem is Brexit. Because of Brexit the govt are now scared that they can’t trade their way out of the economic crisis. They are desperate for investment and equally desperate not to put off companies like Shell (and other non energy companies) for eg from investing in the U.K. They worry the windfall tax makes it more appealing for them to invest in other countries and that it sends the signal to investors that the U.K. govt will impose an unscheduled tax at any moment
We’ve effectively snookered ourselves as an island and we’ve got no choice but to batten down the hatches and wait out the storm. There are massive lessons to be learned here though and I don’t believe it’s as simple as nationalisation. It’s about what you make companies do with their profits, what you invest in as a govt to become energy resilient and the overall strategy you take
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Challenge is that 90% of people in this world can only deal in "simple" solutions. That isn't a dig, I am probably one of them even though I try to fight it.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
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Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 43 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally am a MASSIVE REMOANER! And I am proud of it! I loved being part of the EU as I felt that it gave me more freedom as an individual. Freedom to live an work in 28 countries vs 4, 3 of which I have absolutely no interest in even visiting, never mind settling down or having a career in.
But this whole nonsense about naming and shaming people because they have a different voting preference is so wrong! It ends up turning people on each other rather than focusing attention on holding whomever is in charge accountable.
posted on 26/8/22
There isn't a single politician in government or opposition that thinks Brexit was a good idea. Those that publicly back it are only doing so as part of some sort of self-serving bastardry. All those currently in favour of Brexit, were at one stage or another, supporters of Britain in the EU. It's nonsensical to think otherwise.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
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Yep, and your family are probably more moderate. Now think about all those families that have been broken up and don't talk to each other anymore because of the tribal politics.
I still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
posted on 26/8/22
comment by add912 (U9189)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 40 minutes ago
Anyone who votes for the conservatives at the next GL should be named and shamed.
We also need those that matter to admit that Brexit was the biggest mistake this country has made in our lifetime and reverse it. No more beating around the bush, just rectify it urgently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with that. I don't want to patronise but I think those that voted for it only did so as a big eff you to the government. I don't think they knew the repercussions. My mum voted out, as most other people of a certain age did and she massively regrets it now, largely because she got an earful from my and my brothers. That 52% isn't 52% anymore. It's the minority, by quite some distance so someone needs to come out and have the balls admit it was a mistake and look to rejoin, should the EU even want us back. There wouldn't be quite the backlash the government may expect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and your family are probably more moderate. Now think about all those families that have been broken up and don't talk to each other anymore because of the tribal politics.
I still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
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That's crazy. No, we accept that everyone has a right to an opinion as she had hers but that will never get in the way of any relationship.
It was definitely symptomatic of an age where the trust was gonna between the government and the public. So much so that, like a child, if you tell it to do one thing, it decides to do another as an act of rebellion. Cameron wanted us in so the public voted us out. Simple as that.
Everyone talks about what we lose economically, and boy have we lost a lot, but we've also undone so much good work culturally. The divisions of war, united under one system. It was perfect and we dropped a hand grenade in it. It was completely nonsensical and it should never have been put in the public's hands.
You're right about your right to be a remoaner. I will never, ever understand those that say 'we've left, get used to it" or "put up and shut up". Sorry, what???? What change for the good has ever occurred in this country without people fighting back? That's what democracy is there for. Me, you and the rest of the 48% have a right to continue to shout for what we believe in and no moron with a slim majority should tell me otherwise. It's an absolute joke that line. Like any good protestor, striker or freedom fighter, I'll shut up when the tide turns. All the time it's utterly cataclysmic for this country, I'll continue to scream and shout about how effing awful the whole thing is, as we all should.
posted on 26/8/22
Nothing to do with Putin. Shortsighted governments, nimbys, and green activists have led us to this point. We could have easily secured domestic energy supply with nuclear a long time ago, there was no real argument against it. Our reliance on imports was never going to last.
posted on 26/8/22
still hear about families have have not spoken to each other after the Scottish Referendum...
——————-
of the miners strike of the 80s
posted on 26/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 43 minutes ago
There isn't a single politician in government or opposition that thinks Brexit was a good idea. Those that publicly back it are only doing so as part of some sort of self-serving bastardry. All those currently in favour of Brexit, were at one stage or another, supporters of Britain in the EU. It's nonsensical to think otherwise.
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Brainwashed by Farage and the far right.
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