best club* prob not the best team tho tbf like sevilla and europa the C think theyve won it 5 times in the last 10 years with pretty much same spine.
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about spending though
Pep gels players together but also knows the players he needs
Fergie was the same
Yes pep has always had the money to spend but he can be trusted with it
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Pep has done a rebuild at City. But it is not that difficult to do a rebuild at City, it's not like they lose their best players to other clubs. Kind of like United under Fergie for the most part. Players come to the end of their time and are moved on and replaced with an expensive signing. Are there many players left at City that were there when he won his first title with them? As far as I can see Stones, De Bruyne and Gundogan, with Foden just coming through.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 30 minutes ago
If we only come away with one league title from his time with us, it will be a major let down when we look back because this Liverpool team is literally one of the best this league has seen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you agree with me then
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep got rid of nine players in his second season. That's one hell of a rebuilding job.
Today, KDB is the only surviving player who was there before Pep.
I would call that a complete rebuild.
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not poison, players just down tools so easily these days. Back when Mourinho managed Chelsea, the Chelsea players would have died for Mourinho and gave everything for him. These days players just down tools when Mourinho tries to push them and get them to improve themselves (like pogba)
Give Mourinho a team of hard workers with good attitudes and he wins everything. Give him pogba, ndombele, dele alli etc and they down tools and get Mourinho sacked.
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep got rid of nine players in his second season. That's one hell of a rebuilding job.
Today, KDB is the only surviving player who was there before Pep.
I would call that a complete rebuild.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I say was a genuine question 👍 not a bash
As much as pep is called a cheque book manager for good reason there is a reason for it I already said….he can be trusted with the money
I think the bloke is a genius
I hate the argument that he could only be judged if he managed Crystal Palace or the like ….why should he ?! Would messi have to play for them to be called world class?! Nope
If you are good you get the good jobs …end of
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about spending though
Pep gels players together but also knows the players he needs
Fergie was the same
Yes pep has always had the money to spend but he can be trusted with it
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify, Peps not trusted with the money, Begiristain is.
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not poison, players just down tools so easily these days. Back when Mourinho managed Chelsea, the Chelsea players would have died for Mourinho and gave everything for him. These days players just down tools when Mourinho tries to push them and get them to improve themselves (like pogba)
Give Mourinho a team of hard workers with good attitudes and he wins everything. Give him pogba, ndombele, dele alli etc and they down tools and get Mourinho sacked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get what you are saying but used 3 players to illustrate your point that are known as lazy
He had other players at United and Tottenham (and Madrid and Chelsea when he got sacked) who were known hard workers but it still didn’t work
If he was that great still he would have had this lazy guys firing surely? Fergie would have or sold them
That’s the difference
Part of me thinks Jose kept players like that around as a scape goat
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 43 seconds ago
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 yeah but well…you know
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he even got an ass-cyst this season yet?
comment by Ladmin We Win (U1250)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
He’s a top manager. Only manager to win a title vs Bayern in god knows how long and he did it twice. Also when he joined Liverpool no one gave him a prayer of winning a PL and CL.
You could however argue he’s underachieved with what he has created.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats just down to City reaching record breaking heights. Its a bit like Murray getting to the top at the same time as Nadal, Federer and Djokovitch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s bit of a lazy narrative. City have denied them 2 trophies in the past 6 years.
As I’ve said numerous times, a poor United side have finished 2nd to City as many times as Liverpool in the last 5 seasons.
Nah he's a class manager
This is true though:
"Tottenham who are the easiest team possible to play in a final."
But they had to beat Bayern and Barca to get to the final. So it cancels it out.
Klopp is more of a Howard Kendall than a Pep.
comment by Culèr: The Evolving Brand ✅ (U9489)
posted 34 minutes ago
Klopp is more of a Howard Kendall than a Pep.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s more like Wenger to Fergie.
Klopp is an exceptional manager and someone fans can really love and that makes a massive difference.
What he has done for Liverpool has been great, they became a truly entertaining team pushing at the highest levels of achievement.
He has fallen short more often than not though, which is the only criticism you can throw at him. While i can understand Liverpool fans defending his record and general achievements, the irony (and the point of attack for most opposition fans) is Liverpool fans long-held assertion that it's all about trophies, that LFC are built on cups and thats what they do. Now they like to caveat this assertion to reflect that what Klopp has done for Liverpool as a club goes beyond the trophies he's won. Their historic lack of humility opens them up to such attacks on Klopps record which on paper isnt at the highest level when you comapre to contemporaries like Pep Jose Ancelotti. In fact he should not be talked in the same breathe as these managers if dealing in silverware alone but he deserves to sit in their mighty company as his overall footballing achievements and what he brings to the game are just as great.
Most football fans will admit to Klopp being a top end manager and one theyd welcome at their club....but just not to Liverpool fans who dont need their egos feeding anymore
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a load of baloney.
Pep inherited an expensively assembled squad of world class players worth hundreds of millions which had already won two league titles in the few years before his appointment.
Klopp inherited a team that finished 8th the season prior and had not qualified for the CL for 6 out of the previous 7 years and with the likes of Skrtel and Sakho in defence.
From that to players becoming world class while at Liverpool and CL every year and winning everything within 6 years on a mid to bottom table budget is a feat no manager has ever achieved and no manager ever will.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Klopp is an exceptional manager and someone fans can really love and that makes a massive difference.
What he has done for Liverpool has been great, they became a truly entertaining team pushing at the highest levels of achievement.
He has fallen short more often than not though, which is the only criticism you can throw at him. While i can understand Liverpool fans defending his record and general achievements, the irony (and the point of attack for most opposition fans) is Liverpool fans long-held assertion that it's all about trophies, that LFC are built on cups and thats what they do. Now they like to caveat this assertion to reflect that what Klopp has done for Liverpool as a club goes beyond the trophies he's won. Their historic lack of humility opens them up to such attacks on Klopps record which on paper isnt at the highest level when you comapre to contemporaries like Pep Jose Ancelotti. In fact he should not be talked in the same breathe as these managers if dealing in silverware alone but he deserves to sit in their mighty company as his overall footballing achievements and what he brings to the game are just as great.
Most football fans will admit to Klopp being a top end manager and one theyd welcome at their club....but just not to Liverpool fans who dont need their egos feeding anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Another load of baloney. Klopp has won everything there is to win at Liverpool. The notion that he hasn't won enough is just jealousy from rival fans. Pure and simple.
Spurs fans hail Poch who never even won a Charity Shield or Milk cup.
Klopp is compared to Pep which takes away his shine, instead of the other 99.99% of managers because he is head and shoulders above any other manager except Pep.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Spurs fans hail Poch who never even won a Charity Shield or Milk cup.
Klopp is compared to Pep which takes away his shine, instead of the other 99.99% of managers because he is head and shoulders above any other manager except Pep.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he head and shoulders above ancelotti and zidane who both beat him in CL finals?
He shouldn’t be talked about in the same breath Mourinho and Pep. That’s why Wahl’s right about him being overrated.
Sign in if you want to comment
Is Klopp the most overrated manager of all
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 7/10/22
best club* prob not the best team tho tbf like sevilla and europa the C think theyve won it 5 times in the last 10 years with pretty much same spine.
posted on 7/10/22
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about spending though
Pep gels players together but also knows the players he needs
Fergie was the same
Yes pep has always had the money to spend but he can be trusted with it
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Pep has done a rebuild at City. But it is not that difficult to do a rebuild at City, it's not like they lose their best players to other clubs. Kind of like United under Fergie for the most part. Players come to the end of their time and are moved on and replaced with an expensive signing. Are there many players left at City that were there when he won his first title with them? As far as I can see Stones, De Bruyne and Gundogan, with Foden just coming through.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 30 minutes ago
If we only come away with one league title from his time with us, it will be a major let down when we look back because this Liverpool team is literally one of the best this league has seen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you agree with me then
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
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Pep got rid of nine players in his second season. That's one hell of a rebuilding job.
Today, KDB is the only surviving player who was there before Pep.
I would call that a complete rebuild.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
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Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
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My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
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You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
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Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
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It’s not poison, players just down tools so easily these days. Back when Mourinho managed Chelsea, the Chelsea players would have died for Mourinho and gave everything for him. These days players just down tools when Mourinho tries to push them and get them to improve themselves (like pogba)
Give Mourinho a team of hard workers with good attitudes and he wins everything. Give him pogba, ndombele, dele alli etc and they down tools and get Mourinho sacked.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---throwing money around like confetti (U11551)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hate fergie and reason being is because he was a genius once he established his framework in the early years of failure at united.
He created I think 3 different teams. I don't think anyone else managed to achieve that and that is why he is a genius.
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Fergie is the best without question.
Mourinho was great once as well
Klopp falls beneath both of those for sure.
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Yep why Fergie will always stand out
He could rebuild squads and win titles
Mourinho never did this as moves on or is requested to move on as things turn sour quick with him
I couldn’t stand Fergie when he was around ( as most non fans of United felt ) but I will always respect what a great manager he was ….probably the best
Pep I think could rival Fergie in the rebuild stakes but not sure he will stick around that long
Has pep done a rebuild yet ? Genuine question ….Klopp tried and failed at dortmund from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep got rid of nine players in his second season. That's one hell of a rebuilding job.
Today, KDB is the only surviving player who was there before Pep.
I would call that a complete rebuild.
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Like I say was a genuine question 👍 not a bash
As much as pep is called a cheque book manager for good reason there is a reason for it I already said….he can be trusted with the money
I think the bloke is a genius
I hate the argument that he could only be judged if he managed Crystal Palace or the like ….why should he ?! Would messi have to play for them to be called world class?! Nope
If you are good you get the good jobs …end of
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
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It’s not just about spending though
Pep gels players together but also knows the players he needs
Fergie was the same
Yes pep has always had the money to spend but he can be trusted with it
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
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Just to clarify, Peps not trusted with the money, Begiristain is.
posted on 7/10/22
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by Wahl Icht/ (U22857)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Question is how Klopp's performance at Dortmund and Liverpool compares to their baseline performance, that is under other managers. Klopp's tenure at both clubs represent sustained periods of performance considerably higher than the clubs' 'normal' level. Obviously, there are other variables but it's pretty clear that Klopp has elevated both clubs to an extent that (to take the first example that springs to mind) Jose Mourinho has failed to do in any of his jobs over the last decade.
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Man Utd haven't won a trophy since Mourinho so he elevated their levels. Mourinho got Tottenham to the League Cup final and would have won the final if he hasn't been sacked so he elevated their levels too. And he is the first roma manager to win a European title, so he's elevated their levels.
Next.
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My point was not that Mourinho hasn't elevated a club over the last decade relative to their average performance levels to the extent that Klopp has elevated both Dortmund and Liverpool. Dortmund have not been close to the title winning and CL finalist side that Klopp created since he left. Liverpool were nowhere near the side Klopp leads now (first title in 30 years, multiple CL finals, and multiple times attaining points totals that would normally win the league).
Klopp had a transformative effect on both clubs. Meanwhile, Mourinho has been sacked three times amid depressing and disjointed performances on the field, and acrimony off the field. Spurs have improved massively since he left. Chelsea have won a CL. United have been awful, but no one is nostalgic for a Jose golden age. Next.
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You should be. You won two trophies with Mourinho in one season and have won nothing since.
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Come on wahl you can say mourinho was great , and he really was, but also recognise he has an air of poison about him these days
I mean it’s great when things are going well , I actually liked him when he first started at Tottenham ….then when things turned he changed into it’s everyone else not me persona ….it’s not a good look
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not poison, players just down tools so easily these days. Back when Mourinho managed Chelsea, the Chelsea players would have died for Mourinho and gave everything for him. These days players just down tools when Mourinho tries to push them and get them to improve themselves (like pogba)
Give Mourinho a team of hard workers with good attitudes and he wins everything. Give him pogba, ndombele, dele alli etc and they down tools and get Mourinho sacked.
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I get what you are saying but used 3 players to illustrate your point that are known as lazy
He had other players at United and Tottenham (and Madrid and Chelsea when he got sacked) who were known hard workers but it still didn’t work
If he was that great still he would have had this lazy guys firing surely? Fergie would have or sold them
That’s the difference
Part of me thinks Jose kept players like that around as a scape goat
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 43 seconds ago
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
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😂 yeah but well…you know
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Ole dirty Baztard - penited and penandes (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
Grealish for example will end up a star at city …. He will be as important for them as he was for villa …just needs time
—
Have you not paid any attention to 4za’s excellent grealish article series?
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Has he even got an ass-cyst this season yet?
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Ladmin We Win (U1250)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
He’s a top manager. Only manager to win a title vs Bayern in god knows how long and he did it twice. Also when he joined Liverpool no one gave him a prayer of winning a PL and CL.
You could however argue he’s underachieved with what he has created.
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Thats just down to City reaching record breaking heights. Its a bit like Murray getting to the top at the same time as Nadal, Federer and Djokovitch
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That’s bit of a lazy narrative. City have denied them 2 trophies in the past 6 years.
As I’ve said numerous times, a poor United side have finished 2nd to City as many times as Liverpool in the last 5 seasons.
posted on 7/10/22
Nah he's a class manager
This is true though:
"Tottenham who are the easiest team possible to play in a final."
But they had to beat Bayern and Barca to get to the final. So it cancels it out.
posted on 7/10/22
Klopp is more of a Howard Kendall than a Pep.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Culèr: The Evolving Brand ✅ (U9489)
posted 34 minutes ago
Klopp is more of a Howard Kendall than a Pep.
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He’s more like Wenger to Fergie.
posted on 7/10/22
Klopp is an exceptional manager and someone fans can really love and that makes a massive difference.
What he has done for Liverpool has been great, they became a truly entertaining team pushing at the highest levels of achievement.
He has fallen short more often than not though, which is the only criticism you can throw at him. While i can understand Liverpool fans defending his record and general achievements, the irony (and the point of attack for most opposition fans) is Liverpool fans long-held assertion that it's all about trophies, that LFC are built on cups and thats what they do. Now they like to caveat this assertion to reflect that what Klopp has done for Liverpool as a club goes beyond the trophies he's won. Their historic lack of humility opens them up to such attacks on Klopps record which on paper isnt at the highest level when you comapre to contemporaries like Pep Jose Ancelotti. In fact he should not be talked in the same breathe as these managers if dealing in silverware alone but he deserves to sit in their mighty company as his overall footballing achievements and what he brings to the game are just as great.
Most football fans will admit to Klopp being a top end manager and one theyd welcome at their club....but just not to Liverpool fans who dont need their egos feeding anymore
posted on 7/10/22
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Liverpool fans ofetn point out how much Pep has spent when comparing him with Klopp.
Pep needed to replace loads of ageing players including Demichelis, Zabaletta, Sagna, Klichy, Kolarov, Hart, Bony etc within the first two years.
Lets compare total spend after Klopp has replaced their ageing players.
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What a load of baloney.
Pep inherited an expensively assembled squad of world class players worth hundreds of millions which had already won two league titles in the few years before his appointment.
Klopp inherited a team that finished 8th the season prior and had not qualified for the CL for 6 out of the previous 7 years and with the likes of Skrtel and Sakho in defence.
From that to players becoming world class while at Liverpool and CL every year and winning everything within 6 years on a mid to bottom table budget is a feat no manager has ever achieved and no manager ever will.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Klopp is an exceptional manager and someone fans can really love and that makes a massive difference.
What he has done for Liverpool has been great, they became a truly entertaining team pushing at the highest levels of achievement.
He has fallen short more often than not though, which is the only criticism you can throw at him. While i can understand Liverpool fans defending his record and general achievements, the irony (and the point of attack for most opposition fans) is Liverpool fans long-held assertion that it's all about trophies, that LFC are built on cups and thats what they do. Now they like to caveat this assertion to reflect that what Klopp has done for Liverpool as a club goes beyond the trophies he's won. Their historic lack of humility opens them up to such attacks on Klopps record which on paper isnt at the highest level when you comapre to contemporaries like Pep Jose Ancelotti. In fact he should not be talked in the same breathe as these managers if dealing in silverware alone but he deserves to sit in their mighty company as his overall footballing achievements and what he brings to the game are just as great.
Most football fans will admit to Klopp being a top end manager and one theyd welcome at their club....but just not to Liverpool fans who dont need their egos feeding anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Another load of baloney. Klopp has won everything there is to win at Liverpool. The notion that he hasn't won enough is just jealousy from rival fans. Pure and simple.
posted on 7/10/22
Spurs fans hail Poch who never even won a Charity Shield or Milk cup.
Klopp is compared to Pep which takes away his shine, instead of the other 99.99% of managers because he is head and shoulders above any other manager except Pep.
posted on 7/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Spurs fans hail Poch who never even won a Charity Shield or Milk cup.
Klopp is compared to Pep which takes away his shine, instead of the other 99.99% of managers because he is head and shoulders above any other manager except Pep.
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Is he head and shoulders above ancelotti and zidane who both beat him in CL finals?
posted on 7/10/22
He shouldn’t be talked about in the same breath Mourinho and Pep. That’s why Wahl’s right about him being overrated.
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