Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
English energy sector would collapse without Scotland.
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, it is a positive outlook on independence by experts. And there's many many more.
The people ripping it are perhaps those you agree with. Others will have their opinions. I could argue it's been widely praised and still be right.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
=========
world peace.
i solved it.
you are welcome.
scotland would be Finland or something.
Nuclear weapons are for big countries leaders with wee peackers to threaten each other with.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, it is a positive outlook on independence by experts. And there's many many more.
The people ripping it are perhaps those you agree with. Others will have their opinions. I could argue it's been widely praised and still be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These “experts” are appointed by Sturgeon. The thins itself is from the First Minister. That’s Sturgeon herald for goodness sakes. Have you even read any of it?
There are no financials. None. Now why is that? It’s a pile of politically motivated hogwash.
Many questions have been posed that haven’t (and can’t) be answered. I’ve mentioned a few earlier. Have a read through and by all means give an opinion.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s because of the logistics. Apparently there’s not actually anywhere in England that would provide the same terrain without terraforming. The cost of which isn’t something England want to think about. It’s my understanding that is one of the big reasons we’ve been so keen to keep Scotland as part of the UK.
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s because of the logistics. Apparently there’s not actually anywhere in England that would provide the same terrain without terraforming. The cost of which isn’t something England want to think about. It’s my understanding that is one of the big reasons we’ve been so keen to keep Scotland as part of the UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I don’t doubt that for a minute
It’s really fascinating tbf. Apparently we aren’t even allowed to launch Trident without permission from America either because they are their nukes. We’re basically renting them.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeezus fvck, man, its almost as though no nation our size could POSSIBLY manage by ourselves?
Maybe we scrap licensing and add it to fuel duty? You know, a pragmatic decision like scrapping hugely inefficient bridge tools and prescription charges - who was it did that now....?
Again
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeezus fvck, man, its almost as though no nation our size could POSSIBLY manage by ourselves?
Maybe we scrap licensing and add it to fuel duty? You know, a pragmatic decision like scrapping hugely inefficient bridge tools and prescription charges - who was it did that now....?
Again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said we couldn’t do it did I?
Fuxakes
I asked at what cost and that whatever the cost, it would be hugely damaging and significant for many years.
Scotland would be far worse off for decades.
Where is this money going to come from?
Sakes.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fwck off. It’s a discussion forum. I’ll choose what I want to talk about.
Who made you Laird of the Internet?
Sakes
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
=====
Why is there a deficit? You're tethered like a goat.
The link I posted demonstrates how well other countries similar to Scotland in Europe are doing. Meanwhile Scotland has to be given money, have nonsense like Brexit forced down their throats and told they will die if they even think of independence.
Independent Scotland would have many more revenues to collect anyway, and there's many more things missing from this debate.
Saying "Scotland would be far worse off for decades" is based on little to no meaningful evidence and is plain scaremongering.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fwck off. It’s a discussion forum. I’ll choose what I want to talk about.
Who made you Laird of the Internet?
Sakes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy crap. I'm just saying that in a debate it makes sense to stick to the context withing which a point was made. If it's a hypothetical point then let's go with that instead of comparing it to reality.
My goodness, you're a clever chap, aren't you?
Sign in if you want to comment
About time too
Page 4 of 5
posted on 20/10/22
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
posted on 20/10/22
English energy sector would collapse without Scotland.
posted on 21/10/22
What is a 'scott'?
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
posted on 21/10/22
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
posted on 21/10/22
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, it is a positive outlook on independence by experts. And there's many many more.
The people ripping it are perhaps those you agree with. Others will have their opinions. I could argue it's been widely praised and still be right.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
posted on 21/10/22
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
=========
world peace.
i solved it.
you are welcome.
scotland would be Finland or something.
Nuclear weapons are for big countries leaders with wee peackers to threaten each other with.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
It’s difficult to make any projections for the fiscal outlook of Scotland in the event of a referendum based on where we are now. The conditions just aren’t there for England to allow it to happen. Which is why it’d need a radically different electorate for it to happen, especially in a manner that can cater well enough for all parties.
And that’s before you even consider America’s influence on things because of Trident.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many financial experts who have exactly made a fiscal outlook for Scotland should they go full independence. Not one of them is positive and indeed paint a picture of many years of harsh austerity, cutbacks on expenditure and significant tax rises which even then wouldn’t touch the sides of the deficit.
And that’s before the debacle of rejoining the EU or the currency nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of them is positive?
You mean like this?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-modern-world-wealthier-happier-fairer-not-scotland/documents/
There are as many experts supporting independence as there are who are against it. Don't kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s exactly the report that’s been prepared for Sturgeon and been ripped to shreds.
Don’t kid yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, it is a positive outlook on independence by experts. And there's many many more.
The people ripping it are perhaps those you agree with. Others will have their opinions. I could argue it's been widely praised and still be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These “experts” are appointed by Sturgeon. The thins itself is from the First Minister. That’s Sturgeon herald for goodness sakes. Have you even read any of it?
There are no financials. None. Now why is that? It’s a pile of politically motivated hogwash.
Many questions have been posed that haven’t (and can’t) be answered. I’ve mentioned a few earlier. Have a read through and by all means give an opinion.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
posted on 21/10/22
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
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It’s because of the logistics. Apparently there’s not actually anywhere in England that would provide the same terrain without terraforming. The cost of which isn’t something England want to think about. It’s my understanding that is one of the big reasons we’ve been so keen to keep Scotland as part of the UK.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Lisandro The King Martinez (U10026)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
Trident is probably the main reason the Tories haven’t told the Scotts to fack off. It’s fundamental that we keep Scotland as part of the Union to keep it there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think a nuclear strike on Faslane wouldn’t have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s because of the logistics. Apparently there’s not actually anywhere in England that would provide the same terrain without terraforming. The cost of which isn’t something England want to think about. It’s my understanding that is one of the big reasons we’ve been so keen to keep Scotland as part of the UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I don’t doubt that for a minute
posted on 21/10/22
It’s really fascinating tbf. Apparently we aren’t even allowed to launch Trident without permission from America either because they are their nukes. We’re basically renting them.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeezus fvck, man, its almost as though no nation our size could POSSIBLY manage by ourselves?
Maybe we scrap licensing and add it to fuel duty? You know, a pragmatic decision like scrapping hugely inefficient bridge tools and prescription charges - who was it did that now....?
Again
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 17 minutes ago
Trident is the absolute least of the worries. Governments jobs, right? And we keep getting told our reliance on the state is too great...? It will be negotiated away in the event. Not amicably but with some realism that it needs addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if i'm picking up this point correctly, but interestingly Scotland already pays for its government jobs through it's funding.
Let's take the example of the DVLA. As we know, the DVLA is based in Wales (Swansea I think). All staff you would assume live in Wales. However, a calculation is in place to determine how much capacity is given to Scottish driver applications etc and the necessary funding for that is taken from our budget to pay for that. This is of course mirrored for all other government departments.
Now, in an indy Scotland, we would need our own equivalent of the DVLA, and the infrastructure would need to be put in place for this to happen. So startup costs around IT, physical location, recruitment etc would need to be funded. However, it wouldn't be as big a hit because we're already contributing towards it anyway.
You could also make the argument that some of this (but by no means all of it) would be offset by the fact that the money paid to staff would now be spent back into the Scottish economy as the staff would now be based in Scotland rather than Wales, but I'm not sure how significant that would be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeezus fvck, man, its almost as though no nation our size could POSSIBLY manage by ourselves?
Maybe we scrap licensing and add it to fuel duty? You know, a pragmatic decision like scrapping hugely inefficient bridge tools and prescription charges - who was it did that now....?
Again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said we couldn’t do it did I?
Fuxakes
I asked at what cost and that whatever the cost, it would be hugely damaging and significant for many years.
Scotland would be far worse off for decades.
Where is this money going to come from?
Sakes.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fwck off. It’s a discussion forum. I’ll choose what I want to talk about.
Who made you Laird of the Internet?
Sakes
posted on 21/10/22
So in essence we’d make some savings but face far higher costs?
And these would be paid how bearing in mind we have a huge deficit which would immediately worsen and place us in a position that no world bank would lend to.
=====
Why is there a deficit? You're tethered like a goat.
The link I posted demonstrates how well other countries similar to Scotland in Europe are doing. Meanwhile Scotland has to be given money, have nonsense like Brexit forced down their throats and told they will die if they even think of independence.
Independent Scotland would have many more revenues to collect anyway, and there's many more things missing from this debate.
Saying "Scotland would be far worse off for decades" is based on little to no meaningful evidence and is plain scaremongering.
posted on 21/10/22
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matte... (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 38 seconds ago
i think it will be unnecessary for scotland to have nuclear weapons quite frankly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If everyone in the Western world went down that path what do you think would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine for starters that Putin would happily roll his troops as far and as wide as possible into any country he believes is part of the “motherland”. Why do you think so many countries are desperate to join NATO and the like.
Every week Scotland is “buzzed” by Russian jets. Is that just for fun or to test our response abilities?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Scotland having nuclear weapons in addition to all the countries that already do, wouldn't make a difference to what Russia chooses to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we ditch ours and just depend on everyone else to pitch in if needed?
What kind of alliance is that?
Scotland is the one of the key defence/attack bases. Not sure letting that go would help in the grand order of things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stick to the context of the manner in which the point was made on this article. It's not a generalisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fwck off. It’s a discussion forum. I’ll choose what I want to talk about.
Who made you Laird of the Internet?
Sakes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy crap. I'm just saying that in a debate it makes sense to stick to the context withing which a point was made. If it's a hypothetical point then let's go with that instead of comparing it to reality.
My goodness, you're a clever chap, aren't you?
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