I don't think anyone knows much of anything to be honest. I have zero understanding of this process either, so it's difficult for me to speculate. Sky journo did say the Glazers are prepared to stay and when asked about fna backlash the response was pretty much that they aren't bothered, there's been protests etc since they took over so they are used to it pretty much.
No idea whether that is legit or just posturing but a few different bits being said about the Glazers being a bit iffy with the process, references to 'ghost bidders' and the theatrical bidding process they are trying to encourage, with the Qataris saying they won't get into a bidding war with themselves, which seemed a bit of an odd thing to say but again, could be more posturing.
I lean towards the idea that they will sell. The financial undertaking to do what's needed along with the utterly insane return on investment they will be getting props up the hopeful side of me.
But that's based more on hope than logic and seeing how in the dark we are, I assume most opinions will ultimately be formed by whether the individual wants to see the situation in an optimistic or pessimistic way.
That's my worry in terms of the minority state. I'd still resent the Glazers having any control over the club but if the money went on getting rid of debt and improving facilities, then it would be an improvement. Could they be trusted to spend it that way though? Or would they just take out further loans for that?
*minority stake. Obviously there won't be any states buying all or part of United 😜
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
I don’t think anyone knows exactly what might happen if Joel and Avram were to stay and investors were to help cash the other Glazers out.
Joel and Avram would still want control of the club, so I’d guess they’d have to find a way to finance their own purchase of part of their siblings’ combined stakes. I can’t see them remaining as minority stakeholders.
There must be some interesting discussions going on between the siblings though. It appears clear that at least four of them are ready to cash out now. If Joel and Avram make a sale difficult, the others may decide to try to sell their stakes separately, which, assuming that is possible, would threaten Joel and Avram’s future control of the club.
So if the four are really intent on taking their money, Joel and Avram’s hand will eventually be forced one way or another.
One thing we can be 100% certain about is that any new investment buying up part of the club will not see the debt wiped out. It wouldn’t make sense for any investor to agree to throw huge sums of money straight down a black hole without significant control of the asset, which they simply wouldn’t get.
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
Of course they are. They can't stay now
Maybe Culer the United super fan is holding the deal up
Who would want to invest with the Glazer's running things? Bidder's from the middle east aren't buying us to make money, it's a statement purchase, they will have zero interesting investing with the Glazer's still the owners.
I'm sure it's all just posturing to get the best deal from both sides.
If the Glazer's do end up not selling then it will have been an absolute sh-t show from them in trying to sell the club and wasting so many people's time. I can't imagine they're this stupid.
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 11 minutes ago
Of course they are. They can't stay now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ll see 😉
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 minutes ago
Who would want to invest with the Glazer's running things? Bidder's from the middle east aren't buying us to make money, it's a statement purchase, they will have zero interesting investing with the Glazer's still the owners.
I'm sure it's all just posturing to get the best deal from both sides.
If the Glazer's do end up not selling then it will have been an absolute sh-t show from them in trying to sell the club and wasting so many people's time. I can't imagine they're this stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you not seen the share price since the announcement to sell / seek investment?
21 November $13
Today $25.62
One thing these aren’t, is stupid.
But it might very well be posturing, none of us know anything for certain but I’m pretty confident that they will come out as winners here; regardless of the end result.
Clearly whatever happens they will be very happy financially but they have generally been ridiculed and hated about the way they've run the club. And getting very wealthy important people to come and pitch to buy the club to then not actually sell it will again make them look like idiots who don't really seem to have a clear plan with what to do with the club which they've shown for the past decade or so.
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of infrastructure investment with inflation and interest rates developing or even replacing both Old Trafford and Carrington gets more expensive by the month and with other PL clubs redeveloping their own grounds like Liverpool Everton and Chelsea, Old Trafford will look more antiquated in comparrison. So yes Man United has probably peaked in value. Apart from the vast sums of money it makes under the Glazers which they are very good doing. On the football side things are also looking brighter under Erik finally but United still need substantial player investment in the squad to compw
ete at the top table. Something the Glazers will only do if they are certain to be there for the long term. Glazers are not daft and they will know all this. They are probably playing a dangerpus hardball game atm to make Jim and the sheik think again. If either want United they will pay up if necessary they are probably banking on
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how I see it.
As to the question above about a minority stake funding investment in the club, I can't really see how that works for the same reason of the other four siblings wanting to cash out. Joel and Avram can't sell any of their shares while retaining any sort of control of the club, and the sale of the rest of the Glazer shares obviously goes into the pockets of the siblings. The only scenario where the Glazers stay in control and raise investment is if Joel and Avram convince the others to hang on for a bigger return. In the context of the economics of football and financial situation of United, I would advise any owner who isn't emotionally invested in the club to take the money and run.
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how I see it.
As to the question above about a minority stake funding investment in the club, I can't really see how that works for the same reason of the other four siblings wanting to cash out. Joel and Avram can't sell any of their shares while retaining any sort of control of the club, and the sale of the rest of the Glazer shares obviously goes into the pockets of the siblings. The only scenario where the Glazers stay in control and raise investment is if Joel and Avram convince the others to hang on for a bigger return. In the context of the economics of football and financial situation of United, I would advise any owner who isn't emotionally invested in the club to take the money and run.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or Joel and Avram manage some kind of combination of a leveraged buyout of part of their siblings' stakes whilst persuading one or two of them to stay on with them, which is probably the scariest potential outcome.
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting speculation.
I suppose this is an advantage the Qataris can by and large neutralise if they are determined enough to acquire the club, and therefore ready to throw more money at it.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting speculation.
I suppose this is an advantage the Qataris can by and large neutralise if they are determined enough to acquire the club, and therefore ready to throw more money at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I think one way to look at it is this:
If the Qataris want it enough, the Qataris get it.
They will acquire the necessary funds from somewhere or other in the state coffers if the will is there.
According to the Guardian there are up to 8 other bids on the table most partial investment packages inc. Elliot Investment Management.
Its complicated cos the Glazer siblings are a disfunctual family and they discuss these things thro solicitors. So its a long drawn out process. But they are convinced Glazers want to sell out and there is horseplaying going on about the price right now. Jim and the sheik pulled both thier bids out last night apparently but they have both gone back in with improved offers.
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Are the Glazers selling?
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posted on 23/3/23
I don't think anyone knows much of anything to be honest. I have zero understanding of this process either, so it's difficult for me to speculate. Sky journo did say the Glazers are prepared to stay and when asked about fna backlash the response was pretty much that they aren't bothered, there's been protests etc since they took over so they are used to it pretty much.
No idea whether that is legit or just posturing but a few different bits being said about the Glazers being a bit iffy with the process, references to 'ghost bidders' and the theatrical bidding process they are trying to encourage, with the Qataris saying they won't get into a bidding war with themselves, which seemed a bit of an odd thing to say but again, could be more posturing.
I lean towards the idea that they will sell. The financial undertaking to do what's needed along with the utterly insane return on investment they will be getting props up the hopeful side of me.
But that's based more on hope than logic and seeing how in the dark we are, I assume most opinions will ultimately be formed by whether the individual wants to see the situation in an optimistic or pessimistic way.
posted on 23/3/23
That's my worry in terms of the minority state. I'd still resent the Glazers having any control over the club but if the money went on getting rid of debt and improving facilities, then it would be an improvement. Could they be trusted to spend it that way though? Or would they just take out further loans for that?
posted on 23/3/23
*minority stake. Obviously there won't be any states buying all or part of United 😜
posted on 23/3/23
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
posted on 23/3/23
I don’t think anyone knows exactly what might happen if Joel and Avram were to stay and investors were to help cash the other Glazers out.
Joel and Avram would still want control of the club, so I’d guess they’d have to find a way to finance their own purchase of part of their siblings’ combined stakes. I can’t see them remaining as minority stakeholders.
There must be some interesting discussions going on between the siblings though. It appears clear that at least four of them are ready to cash out now. If Joel and Avram make a sale difficult, the others may decide to try to sell their stakes separately, which, assuming that is possible, would threaten Joel and Avram’s future control of the club.
So if the four are really intent on taking their money, Joel and Avram’s hand will eventually be forced one way or another.
One thing we can be 100% certain about is that any new investment buying up part of the club will not see the debt wiped out. It wouldn’t make sense for any investor to agree to throw huge sums of money straight down a black hole without significant control of the asset, which they simply wouldn’t get.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
posted on 23/3/23
Of course they are. They can't stay now
posted on 23/3/23
Maybe Culer the United super fan is holding the deal up
posted on 23/3/23
Who would want to invest with the Glazer's running things? Bidder's from the middle east aren't buying us to make money, it's a statement purchase, they will have zero interesting investing with the Glazer's still the owners.
I'm sure it's all just posturing to get the best deal from both sides.
If the Glazer's do end up not selling then it will have been an absolute sh-t show from them in trying to sell the club and wasting so many people's time. I can't imagine they're this stupid.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 11 minutes ago
Of course they are. They can't stay now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ll see 😉
posted on 23/3/23
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 minutes ago
Who would want to invest with the Glazer's running things? Bidder's from the middle east aren't buying us to make money, it's a statement purchase, they will have zero interesting investing with the Glazer's still the owners.
I'm sure it's all just posturing to get the best deal from both sides.
If the Glazer's do end up not selling then it will have been an absolute sh-t show from them in trying to sell the club and wasting so many people's time. I can't imagine they're this stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you not seen the share price since the announcement to sell / seek investment?
21 November $13
Today $25.62
One thing these aren’t, is stupid.
But it might very well be posturing, none of us know anything for certain but I’m pretty confident that they will come out as winners here; regardless of the end result.
posted on 23/3/23
Clearly whatever happens they will be very happy financially but they have generally been ridiculed and hated about the way they've run the club. And getting very wealthy important people to come and pitch to buy the club to then not actually sell it will again make them look like idiots who don't really seem to have a clear plan with what to do with the club which they've shown for the past decade or so.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Whiteside has done it again (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
Apparently there are probably other bid on the table that are not public. And Jim and the Sheik have requested more time to think about their own next moves.
I suspect the asking price is miles away from what they both want to pay for the piece of the club they want. And the Glazers wont budge and would be happy to stay rather than sell at that price. So, its up to the buyers to blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65043304
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of infrastructure investment with inflation and interest rates developing or even replacing both Old Trafford and Carrington gets more expensive by the month and with other PL clubs redeveloping their own grounds like Liverpool Everton and Chelsea, Old Trafford will look more antiquated in comparrison. So yes Man United has probably peaked in value. Apart from the vast sums of money it makes under the Glazers which they are very good doing. On the football side things are also looking brighter under Erik finally but United still need substantial player investment in the squad to compw
ete at the top table. Something the Glazers will only do if they are certain to be there for the long term. Glazers are not daft and they will know all this. They are probably playing a dangerpus hardball game atm to make Jim and the sheik think again. If either want United they will pay up if necessary they are probably banking on
posted on 23/3/23
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how I see it.
As to the question above about a minority stake funding investment in the club, I can't really see how that works for the same reason of the other four siblings wanting to cash out. Joel and Avram can't sell any of their shares while retaining any sort of control of the club, and the sale of the rest of the Glazer shares obviously goes into the pockets of the siblings. The only scenario where the Glazers stay in control and raise investment is if Joel and Avram convince the others to hang on for a bigger return. In the context of the economics of football and financial situation of United, I would advise any owner who isn't emotionally invested in the club to take the money and run.
posted on 23/3/23
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
I think it’s going to be very difficult for the Glazers to go with the ‘do nothing’ option now, for various reasons: the club (as a business) needs major new long term investment, the club is also in a pickle financially short-term (which will jeopardise future earnings if it isn’t addressed), from an investment perspective the club may well be close to peak value (i.e. this may be their best chance to get maximum value from investors or a sale), the leverage the four siblings who want to cash out have…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how I see it.
As to the question above about a minority stake funding investment in the club, I can't really see how that works for the same reason of the other four siblings wanting to cash out. Joel and Avram can't sell any of their shares while retaining any sort of control of the club, and the sale of the rest of the Glazer shares obviously goes into the pockets of the siblings. The only scenario where the Glazers stay in control and raise investment is if Joel and Avram convince the others to hang on for a bigger return. In the context of the economics of football and financial situation of United, I would advise any owner who isn't emotionally invested in the club to take the money and run.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or Joel and Avram manage some kind of combination of a leveraged buyout of part of their siblings' stakes whilst persuading one or two of them to stay on with them, which is probably the scariest potential outcome.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting speculation.
I suppose this is an advantage the Qataris can by and large neutralise if they are determined enough to acquire the club, and therefore ready to throw more money at it.
posted on 23/3/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ten Hag Bald is Best Ball at its Facking Finest (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
One thing I've noticed that people don't seem to be taking into account when they dismiss INEOS's ability to compete with the Qatari regime is that INEOS is only aiming to buy the Glazers out, which means it is only looking at 69% of the club.
If the Qataris are looking to take the club private and are prepared to shell out, say, £6bn, whereas INEOS only has £4.5bn to spend, the INEOS bid would actually look better for the Glazers than the Qatari bid.
The way the United shares are structured is another possible bonus for INEOS. At present, the various investment funds owning 31% of United have virtually no say in the running of the club, as the Glazers' shares carry ten times the voting rights.
INEOS can leverage that fact in their search for investor support if they either restructure the existing model to empower the 31%, or offer up part of the 69% they're looking to acquire to other investors under the existing model.
Both of those things are potentially very useful to INEOS whilst doing nothing for the Qatari bid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting speculation.
I suppose this is an advantage the Qataris can by and large neutralise if they are determined enough to acquire the club, and therefore ready to throw more money at it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I think one way to look at it is this:
If the Qataris want it enough, the Qataris get it.
They will acquire the necessary funds from somewhere or other in the state coffers if the will is there.
posted on 23/3/23
According to the Guardian there are up to 8 other bids on the table most partial investment packages inc. Elliot Investment Management.
Its complicated cos the Glazer siblings are a disfunctual family and they discuss these things thro solicitors. So its a long drawn out process. But they are convinced Glazers want to sell out and there is horseplaying going on about the price right now. Jim and the sheik pulled both thier bids out last night apparently but they have both gone back in with improved offers.
Page 1 of 1