“And oh by the way , we'll be out of the top 4 tonight if Tottenham beat Everton”
And will again have two games in hand on Spurs, who are about to play Brighton and Newcastle (away).
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really need to figure out a way of winning that midfield battle without Casimero however, it kills you dead. the threat Newcastle carried cos they smashed you in midfield that put your exposed defence under real problems.
Newcastle really shoulda won by 5/6 at the weekend they created some really clear chances
Yes we have. We have won a trophy. Already that's progress and should install some winning mentality into the players.
Last season we had ronaldo scoring goals but now we have Weghorst not scoring goals
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Case closed.
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
I'm a believer of the eye test. I can't remember seeing utd play very well at all whenever i've seen them this season bar a few european games (caveat - i've only seen probably 20 utd games this season).
You seem to concede so many chances and then rashford goes down the other end and does the damage.
The fulham cup game was a prime example of a game i've left wondering how you won it.
It's not manageable to keep playing like that (much like spurs last year when kane and son kept bailing them out).
A big reason for this could be weghorst is just not good enough, but I do not see any improvement in your overall play.
Even chelsea have been playing better football, just can't score, and we're crap.
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 1 minute ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
is that not what he's saying!?
If we could have combined the progress in playing style and mentality (although the latter has come into question a bit recently) that we've made under ETH with some of the extra fire power in attack that Ole/Ralf had at their disposal last season (Ronaldo, Greenwood or a fit Martial), I think we'd see the progress better reflected in the league points total.
The reality is that our squad is stretched out across multiple competitions (which we've done well to get so far in), and with injuries and suspensions to key players, our backups are the same players - more or less - who weren't good enough under Ole and Ralf.
Also there's a question about how much coaching ETH is really able to implement when the games are coming so thick and fast. I'm not on the training field so don't know what impact that has, but I imagine ETH would ideally want more time between games to drill the players on what he wants. I think we've all seen enough throughout the season to feel confident that with more time and better recruitment, we could be looking really strong over the next season or two.
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 5 minutes ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
Also Ralf Rangnick was 100% correct that the club needed minimum 10 new players.
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 5 minutes ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why we were pathetic. This should not be hard to understand. Even for a moron.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm a believer of the eye test. I can't remember seeing utd play very well at all whenever i've seen them this season bar a few european games (caveat - i've only seen probably 20 utd games this season).
You seem to concede so many chances and then rashford goes down the other end and does the damage.
The fulham cup game was a prime example of a game i've left wondering how you won it.
It's not manageable to keep playing like that (much like spurs last year when kane and son kept bailing them out).
A big reason for this could be weghorst is just not good enough, but I do not see any improvement in your overall play.
Even chelsea have been playing better football, just can't score, and we're crap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been times throughout the season where our build up play and passing from back to front has been vastly superior to anything we've seen in previous seasons.
A big part of that was the addition of Eriksen, who has that ability to take the ball in deeper areas and find progressive passes from those areas to knit things together.
We've definitely gone off the boil, but a lot of that seems to come from the sheer amount of games we've been playing, injuries/suspensions to key players (we don't have the quality in depth right now to deal with certain losses in certain positions) and personally I think some of the players have taken their foot off the gas a little since winning the league cup. Most of these players aren't used to winning trophies and having that desire to push on for more, so maybe that's a little understandable.
We've already won a cup, so on that very simple metric of success, we've made progress.
We've progressed in the way we play, we (fans) have been looking forward to every match and have felt like we can beat anyone, when we click.
A lot of posts yesterday/today just seem to have thrown away all the good we've seen and have been laser focused on the last game. It's to be expected on here, but also sad to see.
We really resemble how we were 2 seasons ago.
The only real difference is that ETH has gotten far more luck in domestic cup draws than Ole ever did.
The “United are back” nonsense after the Barca game now looks very premature.
However, it must be difficult for ETH to really implement his style with the amount of games we play. I can imagine he isn’t getting as much training ground work in as he would like.
If we are still playing like this next seek then questions will have to be asked but I have faith in him right now.
The funny thing is, loads of the posters who've been making the right noises "Patience is needed... We will have ups and downs etc" are the quickest to turn back into toy throwing cry babies the moment we have a loss
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
We really resemble how we were 2 seasons ago.
The only real difference is that ETH has gotten far more luck in domestic cup draws than Ole ever did.
The “United are back” nonsense after the Barca game now looks very premature.
However, it must be difficult for ETH to really implement his style with the amount of games we play. I can imagine he isn’t getting as much training ground work in as he would like.
If we are still playing like this next seek then questions will have to be asked but I have faith in him right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely this is a great thing! After all you keep waffling we were great and onto big things under Ole prior to the arrival of Ronaldo. 2nd and 3rd place finishes waffle. How comes a manager that was heading to great things still out of a job to this day?? The ability to tangle yourself up you are elite at it.
We need 4 high quality midfielders for next season. Casemiro and Eriksen aside we don't really have anyone else.
It might not be a popular suggestion, but is there a chance the Anfield nightmare has had more of an effect on the players than we might like to think?
The timing of it was terrible: we were just coming to the end of an incredibly busy period that we'd negotiated pretty well, overcoming Barcelona and winning a trophy. A defeat at Anfield was always a real possibility, but nobody saw 7-0 coming. Added to the obvious tiredness and injuries/suspensions, the harrowing experience of a thrashing like that might just have burst the balloon of this season and maybe the players can't get that belief and momentum back.
It's fair to say we were probably ahead of schedule when February ended, in third with a trophy won and still in the other cups. Most of us didn't expect that in August. But all those old questions about the players' character and mentality were opened up again at Anfield.
Nope.
All the while the likes of lindelof, mctominay, dalot, coco etc., are not hugely upgraded on - and indeed still get regular 'starts' - then no aspirational club can consider itself to be in "progress". All need moving on, and pronto.
The club also needs to deal with the rashford problem - he simply isn't good enough, at this level, as either a winger or a centre forward. And as his most effective role is never going to be higher than just another jobbing attacking midfielder, who can be matched by any number of other jobbing attacking midfielders, then what's the point of depending so much on him as someone to fill roles he's just crap at.
Until there are 11 players in the starting line-up that are all united quality and all in their correct positions/roles then "progress" hasn't even started.
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 22 minutes ago
It might not be a popular suggestion, but is there a chance the Anfield nightmare has had more of an effect on the players than we might like to think?
The timing of it was terrible: we were just coming to the end of an incredibly busy period that we'd negotiated pretty well, overcoming Barcelona and winning a trophy. A defeat at Anfield was always a real possibility, but nobody saw 7-0 coming. Added to the obvious tiredness and injuries/suspensions, the harrowing experience of a thrashing like that might just have burst the balloon of this season and maybe the players can't get that belief and momentum back.
It's fair to say we were probably ahead of schedule when February ended, in third with a trophy won and still in the other cups. Most of us didn't expect that in August. But all those old questions about the players' character and mentality were opened up again at Anfield.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure the Liverpool experience is pivotal. Seems to me the trend line before and after Liverpool is fairly constant: looking increasingly ragged. I think overall the tiredness/injuries exposing weaknesses that were always there is the key thing. But if there's an identifiable turning point, I'd suggest the come-down after the motivation/euphoria of beating Barcelona and winning the League Cup.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
The funny thing is, loads of the posters who've been making the right noises "Patience is needed... We will have ups and downs etc" are the quickest to turn back into toy throwing cry babies the moment we have a loss
----------------------------------------------------------------------
same on Spurs board too
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 4 minutes ago
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm looking at players like Martial, Sabitzer, Sancho, Pellistri, a returning Eriksen etc, who haven't played too much and can hopefully see us keep getting results at least in the home games.
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 4 minutes ago
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm looking at players like Martial, Sabitzer, Sancho, Pellistri, a returning Eriksen etc, who haven't played too much and can hopefully see us keep getting results at least in the home games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Casemiro makes a massive difference as well. It'll be inetersting to see how he uses the squad though. I expect Eriksen will go straight back in, but it's more Rashford, Bruno and the back four I worry about.
Sign in if you want to comment
Progress
Page 1 of 2
posted on 3/4/23
“And oh by the way , we'll be out of the top 4 tonight if Tottenham beat Everton”
And will again have two games in hand on Spurs, who are about to play Brighton and Newcastle (away).
posted on 3/4/23
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really need to figure out a way of winning that midfield battle without Casimero however, it kills you dead. the threat Newcastle carried cos they smashed you in midfield that put your exposed defence under real problems.
Newcastle really shoulda won by 5/6 at the weekend they created some really clear chances
posted on 3/4/23
Yes we have. We have won a trophy. Already that's progress and should install some winning mentality into the players.
Last season we had ronaldo scoring goals but now we have Weghorst not scoring goals
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
"Have we really made any progress?"
Is this a genuine question from your point of view? With regard to being only three points better off than last season, I would point to:
- the awful start (players still adapting to Ten Hag's demands; new signings not bedded in / not arrived)
- a long period following the first two matches where we won more points than anyone other than Arsenal
- the fact that we have very obviously lost a bit of momentum lately due to playing nearly twice as many matches since Christmas as some of our league competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Case closed.
posted on 3/4/23
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
posted on 3/4/23
I'm a believer of the eye test. I can't remember seeing utd play very well at all whenever i've seen them this season bar a few european games (caveat - i've only seen probably 20 utd games this season).
You seem to concede so many chances and then rashford goes down the other end and does the damage.
The fulham cup game was a prime example of a game i've left wondering how you won it.
It's not manageable to keep playing like that (much like spurs last year when kane and son kept bailing them out).
A big reason for this could be weghorst is just not good enough, but I do not see any improvement in your overall play.
Even chelsea have been playing better football, just can't score, and we're crap.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 1 minute ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
is that not what he's saying!?
posted on 3/4/23
If we could have combined the progress in playing style and mentality (although the latter has come into question a bit recently) that we've made under ETH with some of the extra fire power in attack that Ole/Ralf had at their disposal last season (Ronaldo, Greenwood or a fit Martial), I think we'd see the progress better reflected in the league points total.
The reality is that our squad is stretched out across multiple competitions (which we've done well to get so far in), and with injuries and suspensions to key players, our backups are the same players - more or less - who weren't good enough under Ole and Ralf.
Also there's a question about how much coaching ETH is really able to implement when the games are coming so thick and fast. I'm not on the training field so don't know what impact that has, but I imagine ETH would ideally want more time between games to drill the players on what he wants. I think we've all seen enough throughout the season to feel confident that with more time and better recruitment, we could be looking really strong over the next season or two.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 5 minutes ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
posted on 3/4/23
Also Ralf Rangnick was 100% correct that the club needed minimum 10 new players.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 5 minutes ago
I saw a stat yesterday after the pathetic loss at Newcastle .......
Pathetic loss??
Barcodes absolutely battered yous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why we were pathetic. This should not be hard to understand. Even for a moron.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm a believer of the eye test. I can't remember seeing utd play very well at all whenever i've seen them this season bar a few european games (caveat - i've only seen probably 20 utd games this season).
You seem to concede so many chances and then rashford goes down the other end and does the damage.
The fulham cup game was a prime example of a game i've left wondering how you won it.
It's not manageable to keep playing like that (much like spurs last year when kane and son kept bailing them out).
A big reason for this could be weghorst is just not good enough, but I do not see any improvement in your overall play.
Even chelsea have been playing better football, just can't score, and we're crap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been times throughout the season where our build up play and passing from back to front has been vastly superior to anything we've seen in previous seasons.
A big part of that was the addition of Eriksen, who has that ability to take the ball in deeper areas and find progressive passes from those areas to knit things together.
We've definitely gone off the boil, but a lot of that seems to come from the sheer amount of games we've been playing, injuries/suspensions to key players (we don't have the quality in depth right now to deal with certain losses in certain positions) and personally I think some of the players have taken their foot off the gas a little since winning the league cup. Most of these players aren't used to winning trophies and having that desire to push on for more, so maybe that's a little understandable.
posted on 3/4/23
We've already won a cup, so on that very simple metric of success, we've made progress.
We've progressed in the way we play, we (fans) have been looking forward to every match and have felt like we can beat anyone, when we click.
A lot of posts yesterday/today just seem to have thrown away all the good we've seen and have been laser focused on the last game. It's to be expected on here, but also sad to see.
posted on 3/4/23
We really resemble how we were 2 seasons ago.
The only real difference is that ETH has gotten far more luck in domestic cup draws than Ole ever did.
The “United are back” nonsense after the Barca game now looks very premature.
However, it must be difficult for ETH to really implement his style with the amount of games we play. I can imagine he isn’t getting as much training ground work in as he would like.
If we are still playing like this next seek then questions will have to be asked but I have faith in him right now.
posted on 3/4/23
The funny thing is, loads of the posters who've been making the right noises "Patience is needed... We will have ups and downs etc" are the quickest to turn back into toy throwing cry babies the moment we have a loss
posted on 3/4/23
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
We really resemble how we were 2 seasons ago.
The only real difference is that ETH has gotten far more luck in domestic cup draws than Ole ever did.
The “United are back” nonsense after the Barca game now looks very premature.
However, it must be difficult for ETH to really implement his style with the amount of games we play. I can imagine he isn’t getting as much training ground work in as he would like.
If we are still playing like this next seek then questions will have to be asked but I have faith in him right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely this is a great thing! After all you keep waffling we were great and onto big things under Ole prior to the arrival of Ronaldo. 2nd and 3rd place finishes waffle. How comes a manager that was heading to great things still out of a job to this day?? The ability to tangle yourself up you are elite at it.
posted on 3/4/23
We need 4 high quality midfielders for next season. Casemiro and Eriksen aside we don't really have anyone else.
posted on 3/4/23
It might not be a popular suggestion, but is there a chance the Anfield nightmare has had more of an effect on the players than we might like to think?
The timing of it was terrible: we were just coming to the end of an incredibly busy period that we'd negotiated pretty well, overcoming Barcelona and winning a trophy. A defeat at Anfield was always a real possibility, but nobody saw 7-0 coming. Added to the obvious tiredness and injuries/suspensions, the harrowing experience of a thrashing like that might just have burst the balloon of this season and maybe the players can't get that belief and momentum back.
It's fair to say we were probably ahead of schedule when February ended, in third with a trophy won and still in the other cups. Most of us didn't expect that in August. But all those old questions about the players' character and mentality were opened up again at Anfield.
posted on 3/4/23
Nope.
All the while the likes of lindelof, mctominay, dalot, coco etc., are not hugely upgraded on - and indeed still get regular 'starts' - then no aspirational club can consider itself to be in "progress". All need moving on, and pronto.
The club also needs to deal with the rashford problem - he simply isn't good enough, at this level, as either a winger or a centre forward. And as his most effective role is never going to be higher than just another jobbing attacking midfielder, who can be matched by any number of other jobbing attacking midfielders, then what's the point of depending so much on him as someone to fill roles he's just crap at.
Until there are 11 players in the starting line-up that are all united quality and all in their correct positions/roles then "progress" hasn't even started.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 22 minutes ago
It might not be a popular suggestion, but is there a chance the Anfield nightmare has had more of an effect on the players than we might like to think?
The timing of it was terrible: we were just coming to the end of an incredibly busy period that we'd negotiated pretty well, overcoming Barcelona and winning a trophy. A defeat at Anfield was always a real possibility, but nobody saw 7-0 coming. Added to the obvious tiredness and injuries/suspensions, the harrowing experience of a thrashing like that might just have burst the balloon of this season and maybe the players can't get that belief and momentum back.
It's fair to say we were probably ahead of schedule when February ended, in third with a trophy won and still in the other cups. Most of us didn't expect that in August. But all those old questions about the players' character and mentality were opened up again at Anfield.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure the Liverpool experience is pivotal. Seems to me the trend line before and after Liverpool is fairly constant: looking increasingly ragged. I think overall the tiredness/injuries exposing weaknesses that were always there is the key thing. But if there's an identifiable turning point, I'd suggest the come-down after the motivation/euphoria of beating Barcelona and winning the League Cup.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
The funny thing is, loads of the posters who've been making the right noises "Patience is needed... We will have ups and downs etc" are the quickest to turn back into toy throwing cry babies the moment we have a loss
----------------------------------------------------------------------
same on Spurs board too
posted on 3/4/23
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 4 minutes ago
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm looking at players like Martial, Sabitzer, Sancho, Pellistri, a returning Eriksen etc, who haven't played too much and can hopefully see us keep getting results at least in the home games.
posted on 3/4/23
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 4 minutes ago
I know it's a cliche, but it feels like we're running on fumes now. The worrying part for me is that if we go all the way in both cup comps that's still 18 games left to play and something's going to give. Spurs and Newcastle have 10 league games left to focus on for comparison. Nice problems to have, but problems nonetheless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm looking at players like Martial, Sabitzer, Sancho, Pellistri, a returning Eriksen etc, who haven't played too much and can hopefully see us keep getting results at least in the home games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Casemiro makes a massive difference as well. It'll be inetersting to see how he uses the squad though. I expect Eriksen will go straight back in, but it's more Rashford, Bruno and the back four I worry about.
Page 1 of 2