I think Romero needs to be coached to pass the ball quicker. Maybe it is habit he has picked up from Dier but he likes to stand on the ball too much, which allows the oppo to set their defensive shape.
Great article.
Yep, forgot about Sarr, Gil and (dare I say it) Winks
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 44 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf, it is a very good post
I suspect Ange is more flexible in terms of shape and roles, even if the attacking intent remains the same. He used a back 3 with Australia I remember for example. So I'm sure he would have no problem integrating Kane.
if we're working on the assumption that he'll want to recreate his Celtic system exactly though, I'd disagree with you in a few places.
FBs - probably the hardest to predict as it's demanding them to play in a way none of them, bar royal briefly, have done. Royal and Davies are just pretty average players, but relative to their overall quality, their short passing is pretty good and they're decent in buildup. Then Davies is also a decent crosser, so could offer something of a threat in the half space.
Udogie and Spence are definitely more raw, but their lack of crossing games means that they tend to underlap and attack the box in the final third already. As for the inverting in deeper areas, it's hard to say - neither are stand out passers right now but they're steady and their dribbling and carrying skills gives the upside for some press resistance.
Porro obviously has a lot of technical quality but he's a risk taker in build up which tbh Ange might like. Then in the final third I think he can be a threat from the half space in a sort of Trent fashion. And he can still get wide too as there are a lot of rotations along the forward line, with the wingers and 8s or FBs swapping zones at times.
Wingers - Whilst Ange's wingers definitely start wide, they do also need to be able to go both ways and be more dynamic than simple touchline huggers. Celtic essentially always start with at least one right footed left winger or left footed right winger. And they do have licence to get into the box and score goals, particularly when attacking the backpost - think sterling at city.
I think Son and Deki are good fits for this - Receiving at the touchline means Son will usually be facing goal and will be able to stand his man up, which is probably the best situation for him when we're not playing on the counter. Despite his speed Deki has shown that he can use his size and dribbling skills to go by his fullback both inside and outside.
midfield is such a crapshoot I have no idea what it's gonna look like tbh
Cheers Chris, all fair points. Though I'd argue Porro is just as inexperienced as an inverted full back (in terms of short passing) as Udogie. I do think both will find a role in whatever system Postecoglou uses, though. I reckon he'll like both players.
And yeah, I did put in the disclaimers that he may well adapt to personnel.
I definitely agree that he'd be able to find a role to use Kane's strengths. He's just too good a player not to. My point was that if he wants to recreate the Kyogo role at Spurs, then I'd say Son is a better bet for the #9 spot.
I think we both firmly agree that there's a lot of spaces up for debate though, and probably a good few changes needed
What a good article
I think spurs fans will get behind Ange even if we’re losing at first, as long as levy is bringing in the right players. If we are watching Ange struggle with dier, hjolberg and sess , then I think fans will turn pretty quickly
All about our transfer window now
I can't believe ange would be interested in Maguire unless he plans to totally change the system..and I don't think he'll do that.
It's most likely lazy journalism or Levy is making transfer decisions.
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a Celtic fan I’d say the set up is more similar to Liverpool of a couple of seasons ago. Midfield 3 of strong ball holding midfielders who get it to the front 3 quickly (Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum).
A solid back 2 with 2 athletic full-backs bombing up the pitch.
Up front we have a tirelessly working Japanese player fulfilling the Mane role, and Abada often performing the ‘I have to score from right wing at all costs’ role. Kyogo as a solo, much loved figure, up front (Firmino).
Our players are only half as good as the Liverpool ones but you get the point.
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 19 minutes ago
I can't believe ange would be interested in Maguire unless he plans to totally change the system..and I don't think he'll do that.
It's most likely lazy journalism or Levy is making transfer decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given how exposed the back line is going to be Maguire is probably the worst player in Europe for Ange. I’d kind of like to see it though
It's just occurred to me that Dele Alli - before he fell off a cliff - would've been absolutely perfect for one of the central midfielder spots under Ange.
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 1 minute ago
It's just occurred to me that Dele Alli - before he fell off a cliff - would've been absolutely perfect for one of the central midfielder spots under Ange.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incredible engine, pressed hard, wanted to get into the box and create/score, quick feet, brilliant at instinctive one-touch play...
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a Celtic fan I’d say the set up is more similar to Liverpool of a couple of seasons ago. Midfield 3 of strong ball holding midfielders who get it to the front 3 quickly (Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum).
A solid back 2 with 2 athletic full-backs bombing up the pitch.
Up front we have a tirelessly working Japanese player fulfilling the Mane role, and Abada often performing the ‘I have to score from right wing at all costs’ role. Kyogo as a solo, much loved figure, up front (Firmino).
Our players are only half as good as the Liverpool ones but you get the point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting - I won't pretend to have watched Celtic so ill take your word for it, but I certainly didn't have Hatate down as a sort of "get it to the front men and leave them to it" player. I thought he was quite a technical playmaker. As I say though, I wouldn't know since I've not watched him
Hatate has an engine for days, very busy in the middle and never lets up. Pushes the team forward and joins the attack the way the Wij used to.
Then we have McGregor in the old Henderson role, very tidy, calm, solid in possession. Pitches in with the odd long ranger every now and then.
Where the Liverpool comparison falls down a little is that we don’t always play a deep lying midfielder. Our 3rd is often another creative midfielder. McGregor is always happy to slide back and protect things though.
God I’m going to miss Ange’s team
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
Recognising all that (nice analysis), I find it baffling that Ange has accepted this job unless he had:
-cast iron hard guarantees he gets 2 seasons to build no matter results/quality of play
-warchest in the 200m+ over said 2 seasons
People, especially rival fans, like to sh!t on that almost champion squad, but the back four of Rose, Vertongen, Toby and Walker was one of the best ball-playing/press resistant defensive line-ups in the PL. Not to mention the midfield with Dembele and Eriksen...
And the current squad doesn't even have 1 player close to that level on the ball (maybe Romero is with 3 better players around him, hard to tell), so you need to buy 4 of those who are also good enough defensively.
More realistically with current day valuations you get 1-2 somewhat proven ones and a handfull of youngsters that need 2-3 seasons to develop like Vertongen, Eriksen and Dembele did, so the fans need to 'eat' a few seasons around 7-8th place.
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
---
I'm pretty confident that given the context he'll get time and patience. With Newcastle doing their thing the board will know that top 4 will be tough. And we've had to put up with pragmatic, low block football for so long, us fans will be happy enjoying football for a season or two.
And as much as you're right we're missing some specialist players, it's certainly not uneasonable that we'll source them this summer.
With Ange hired I'm even more glad we're not in the Europa or Conference so he'll be able to focus on league performances with just the odd cup game to try things out.
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 14 minutes ago
Recognising all that (nice analysis), I find it baffling that Ange has accepted this job unless he had:
-cast iron hard guarantees he gets 2 seasons to build no matter results/quality of play
-warchest in the 200m+ over said 2 seasons
People, especially rival fans, like to sh!t on that almost champion squad, but the back four of Rose, Vertongen, Toby and Walker was one of the best ball-playing/press resistant defensive line-ups in the PL. Not to mention the midfield with Dembele and Eriksen...
And the current squad doesn't even have 1 player close to that level on the ball (maybe Romero is with 3 better players around him, hard to tell), so you need to buy 4 of those who are also good enough defensively.
More realistically with current day valuations you get 1-2 somewhat proven ones and a handfull of youngsters that need 2-3 seasons to develop like Vertongen, Eriksen and Dembele did, so the fans need to 'eat' a few seasons around 7-8th place.
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£2m salary vs. what, £6-8m salary? This is possibly the least baffling job acceptance in British football history.
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
πππ
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd normally agree with this approach but I think Ange might know otherwise!
Sign in if you want to comment
Taking a look at Ange's tactics
Page 2 of 3
posted on 7/6/23
I think Romero needs to be coached to pass the ball quicker. Maybe it is habit he has picked up from Dier but he likes to stand on the ball too much, which allows the oppo to set their defensive shape.
Great article.
posted on 7/6/23
Yep, forgot about Sarr, Gil and (dare I say it) Winks
posted on 7/6/23
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 44 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf, it is a very good post
posted on 7/6/23
Article
posted on 7/6/23
I suspect Ange is more flexible in terms of shape and roles, even if the attacking intent remains the same. He used a back 3 with Australia I remember for example. So I'm sure he would have no problem integrating Kane.
if we're working on the assumption that he'll want to recreate his Celtic system exactly though, I'd disagree with you in a few places.
FBs - probably the hardest to predict as it's demanding them to play in a way none of them, bar royal briefly, have done. Royal and Davies are just pretty average players, but relative to their overall quality, their short passing is pretty good and they're decent in buildup. Then Davies is also a decent crosser, so could offer something of a threat in the half space.
Udogie and Spence are definitely more raw, but their lack of crossing games means that they tend to underlap and attack the box in the final third already. As for the inverting in deeper areas, it's hard to say - neither are stand out passers right now but they're steady and their dribbling and carrying skills gives the upside for some press resistance.
Porro obviously has a lot of technical quality but he's a risk taker in build up which tbh Ange might like. Then in the final third I think he can be a threat from the half space in a sort of Trent fashion. And he can still get wide too as there are a lot of rotations along the forward line, with the wingers and 8s or FBs swapping zones at times.
Wingers - Whilst Ange's wingers definitely start wide, they do also need to be able to go both ways and be more dynamic than simple touchline huggers. Celtic essentially always start with at least one right footed left winger or left footed right winger. And they do have licence to get into the box and score goals, particularly when attacking the backpost - think sterling at city.
I think Son and Deki are good fits for this - Receiving at the touchline means Son will usually be facing goal and will be able to stand his man up, which is probably the best situation for him when we're not playing on the counter. Despite his speed Deki has shown that he can use his size and dribbling skills to go by his fullback both inside and outside.
midfield is such a crapshoot I have no idea what it's gonna look like tbh
posted on 7/6/23
Cheers Chris, all fair points. Though I'd argue Porro is just as inexperienced as an inverted full back (in terms of short passing) as Udogie. I do think both will find a role in whatever system Postecoglou uses, though. I reckon he'll like both players.
And yeah, I did put in the disclaimers that he may well adapt to personnel.
I definitely agree that he'd be able to find a role to use Kane's strengths. He's just too good a player not to. My point was that if he wants to recreate the Kyogo role at Spurs, then I'd say Son is a better bet for the #9 spot.
I think we both firmly agree that there's a lot of spaces up for debate though, and probably a good few changes needed
posted on 7/6/23
posted on 7/6/23
What a good article
I think spurs fans will get behind Ange even if we’re losing at first, as long as levy is bringing in the right players. If we are watching Ange struggle with dier, hjolberg and sess , then I think fans will turn pretty quickly
All about our transfer window now
posted on 7/6/23
I can't believe ange would be interested in Maguire unless he plans to totally change the system..and I don't think he'll do that.
It's most likely lazy journalism or Levy is making transfer decisions.
posted on 7/6/23
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a Celtic fan I’d say the set up is more similar to Liverpool of a couple of seasons ago. Midfield 3 of strong ball holding midfielders who get it to the front 3 quickly (Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum).
A solid back 2 with 2 athletic full-backs bombing up the pitch.
Up front we have a tirelessly working Japanese player fulfilling the Mane role, and Abada often performing the ‘I have to score from right wing at all costs’ role. Kyogo as a solo, much loved figure, up front (Firmino).
Our players are only half as good as the Liverpool ones but you get the point.
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 19 minutes ago
I can't believe ange would be interested in Maguire unless he plans to totally change the system..and I don't think he'll do that.
It's most likely lazy journalism or Levy is making transfer decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given how exposed the back line is going to be Maguire is probably the worst player in Europe for Ange. I’d kind of like to see it though
posted on 7/6/23
It's just occurred to me that Dele Alli - before he fell off a cliff - would've been absolutely perfect for one of the central midfielder spots under Ange.
posted on 7/6/23
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 1 minute ago
It's just occurred to me that Dele Alli - before he fell off a cliff - would've been absolutely perfect for one of the central midfielder spots under Ange.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incredible engine, pressed hard, wanted to get into the box and create/score, quick feet, brilliant at instinctive one-touch play...
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by AmAngeda Postecogginkiss (U11574)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm just glad Celtic fans seem to be verifying that I'm not talking complete booollocks in the OP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a Celtic fan I’d say the set up is more similar to Liverpool of a couple of seasons ago. Midfield 3 of strong ball holding midfielders who get it to the front 3 quickly (Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum).
A solid back 2 with 2 athletic full-backs bombing up the pitch.
Up front we have a tirelessly working Japanese player fulfilling the Mane role, and Abada often performing the ‘I have to score from right wing at all costs’ role. Kyogo as a solo, much loved figure, up front (Firmino).
Our players are only half as good as the Liverpool ones but you get the point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting - I won't pretend to have watched Celtic so ill take your word for it, but I certainly didn't have Hatate down as a sort of "get it to the front men and leave them to it" player. I thought he was quite a technical playmaker. As I say though, I wouldn't know since I've not watched him
posted on 7/6/23
Hatate has an engine for days, very busy in the middle and never lets up. Pushes the team forward and joins the attack the way the Wij used to.
Then we have McGregor in the old Henderson role, very tidy, calm, solid in possession. Pitches in with the odd long ranger every now and then.
posted on 7/6/23
Where the Liverpool comparison falls down a little is that we don’t always play a deep lying midfielder. Our 3rd is often another creative midfielder. McGregor is always happy to slide back and protect things though.
God I’m going to miss Ange’s team
posted on 7/6/23
Decent read, cheers
posted on 7/6/23
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
posted on 7/6/23
Recognising all that (nice analysis), I find it baffling that Ange has accepted this job unless he had:
-cast iron hard guarantees he gets 2 seasons to build no matter results/quality of play
-warchest in the 200m+ over said 2 seasons
People, especially rival fans, like to sh!t on that almost champion squad, but the back four of Rose, Vertongen, Toby and Walker was one of the best ball-playing/press resistant defensive line-ups in the PL. Not to mention the midfield with Dembele and Eriksen...
And the current squad doesn't even have 1 player close to that level on the ball (maybe Romero is with 3 better players around him, hard to tell), so you need to buy 4 of those who are also good enough defensively.
More realistically with current day valuations you get 1-2 somewhat proven ones and a handfull of youngsters that need 2-3 seasons to develop like Vertongen, Eriksen and Dembele did, so the fans need to 'eat' a few seasons around 7-8th place.
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
posted on 7/6/23
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
---
I'm pretty confident that given the context he'll get time and patience. With Newcastle doing their thing the board will know that top 4 will be tough. And we've had to put up with pragmatic, low block football for so long, us fans will be happy enjoying football for a season or two.
And as much as you're right we're missing some specialist players, it's certainly not uneasonable that we'll source them this summer.
With Ange hired I'm even more glad we're not in the Europa or Conference so he'll be able to focus on league performances with just the odd cup game to try things out.
posted on 7/6/23
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 14 minutes ago
Recognising all that (nice analysis), I find it baffling that Ange has accepted this job unless he had:
-cast iron hard guarantees he gets 2 seasons to build no matter results/quality of play
-warchest in the 200m+ over said 2 seasons
People, especially rival fans, like to sh!t on that almost champion squad, but the back four of Rose, Vertongen, Toby and Walker was one of the best ball-playing/press resistant defensive line-ups in the PL. Not to mention the midfield with Dembele and Eriksen...
And the current squad doesn't even have 1 player close to that level on the ball (maybe Romero is with 3 better players around him, hard to tell), so you need to buy 4 of those who are also good enough defensively.
More realistically with current day valuations you get 1-2 somewhat proven ones and a handfull of youngsters that need 2-3 seasons to develop like Vertongen, Eriksen and Dembele did, so the fans need to 'eat' a few seasons around 7-8th place.
I'm not sure that will go well with fans and Ange getting the time to even finish in those places...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£2m salary vs. what, £6-8m salary? This is possibly the least baffling job acceptance in British football history.
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
πππ
posted on 7/6/23
comment by Thisishardcore (U9121)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by LogieB... (U8397)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hatate is an all-round midfielder, technically brilliant and great at creating space for himself. He has great vision, as well as taking a pass in tight spaces.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. He's one of the few guys in that team who could play at any level and not look out of place.
More than held his own against RM. Brilliant player.
I'm not telling them who the other ones are!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatate isn’t a patch on McCarthy, that’s the kind of player Spurs need if they really want to challenge again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd normally agree with this approach but I think Ange might know otherwise!
Page 2 of 3