But money must already have changed hands for the 49ers to become 44% owners -- 44% of £400m?
I thought to take the club off Cellino he paid a lot more than 40m!..
I think he paid 50m for 50% and about the same again to take full control, I might be wrong but I think he did!..
Any "commission " from clubs for paying high price for some players from some clubs. Just asking.
Not sure where ASER/Radz tax jurisdiction is, but tax has to be factored in.
He didn't make anything from player sales. That's not how businesses work.
Leeds United (or whatever the company name is at companies house) makes/loses the money. Not the owner.
Amortisation of players is nothing to do with the amount owed. If a player is bought for £10m and the payment is made up front in full, on a 4 year contract, the players value will still be amortised over the lenght of the contract and depreciate at £2.5m/year.
Staged payment for players transfers are debt owed by the club, not the owner and so will still be owed by the club regardless of who the owner is. The club will have a list of creditors of which the majority of the value owed will be for player transfers. This is all on the balance sheet and impacts the value of the company.
As mentioned above you have accounted for the sale of the 56% that has been agreed, but not for the previous 44% which will increase the return on investment significantly. Without checking I'm assuming that the previous 29% purchase was at a value higher than the £170m as we were in the Premier League then.
Also, AR obviously invested a big chunk of money in the club to get us promoted and fund Bielsa and the rest of the wage budget. How that was invested I am not sure, if it was as directors loans has he been paid back, or have they been written off as part of the purchase price?
He also paid for the purchase of the stadium which is included in the sale price.
Without having the full accounts we will never know how much he's made. But basically player transfers and the clubs profit and loss have nothing to do with the equation.
It's about how much he's put in (purchase price, investment) and how much he's got out (sale price, salary, interest on loans)
Excellent commentary, Faith. From what you are saying, there has been a significant outlay on his part. I remember him saying he had put in 100m in one season, not sure when though. However, will we ever know how much he took out in salary, bonuses, commissions and rent? It sounds like there are a lot of variables to consider.
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 2 minutes ago
Excellent commentary, Faith. From what you are saying, there has been a significant outlay on his part. I remember him saying he had put in 100m in one season, not sure when though. However, will we ever know how much he took out in salary, bonuses, commissions and rent? It sounds like there are a lot of variables to consider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not seen the £100m figure but if he loaned the company that, which is pretty standard, then the company still owes him that money until the debt is paid off or the debt is written off.
And let's say Leeds United is valued at £170m. AR loans deposits £30m into the clubs accounts to cover costs this summer. The club is now £30m more valuable because the bank balance which is an asset is obviously £30m better off. But that is cancelled out by the £30m debt the club now has as a loan to AR of £30m. This shows as a liabilty.
So club assets increases by £30m.
But Liabilities also increase by £30m.
So value stays the same. (probably slightly less because interest will accrue on the loan) but you get the picture.
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
He didn't make anything from player sales. That's not how businesses work.
Leeds United (or whatever the company name is at companies house) makes/loses the money. Not the owner.
Amortisation of players is nothing to do with the amount owed. If a player is bought for £10m and the payment is made up front in full, on a 4 year contract, the players value will still be amortised over the lenght of the contract and depreciate at £2.5m/year.
Staged payment for players transfers are debt owed by the club, not the owner and so will still be owed by the club regardless of who the owner is. The club will have a list of creditors of which the majority of the value owed will be for player transfers. This is all on the balance sheet and impacts the value of the company.
As mentioned above you have accounted for the sale of the 56% that has been agreed, but not for the previous 44% which will increase the return on investment significantly. Without checking I'm assuming that the previous 29% purchase was at a value higher than the £170m as we were in the Premier League then.
Also, AR obviously invested a big chunk of money in the club to get us promoted and fund Bielsa and the rest of the wage budget. How that was invested I am not sure, if it was as directors loans has he been paid back, or have they been written off as part of the purchase price?
He also paid for the purchase of the stadium which is included in the sale price.
Without having the full accounts we will never know how much he's made. But basically player transfers and the clubs profit and loss have nothing to do with the equation.
It's about how much he's put in (purchase price, investment) and how much he's got out (sale price, salary, interest on loans)
-------------------------------------------------
Faith, very interesting read.. and makes sense actually as its written down, thanks
with all that in mind tho, why do owners come under so much scrutiny about how much money they've invested etc?
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the club, as spent fortunes on interest, caused by the leverage buyout Glaziers did.
Stadium as been left to rot and been left behind in training ground.
Been shocking owners
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the club, as spent fortunes on interest, caused by the leverage buyout Glaziers did.
Stadium as been left to rot and been left behind in training ground.
Been shocking owners
---------------------------------
right, I mean, as a football fan tho, we pay at the gate to watch players right? - if that club is spending millions upon millions on transfers etc, always top 4, CL football, trophies (all bit it the league cup) I don;t get why you'd have a pop at the owners,
what am I missing? - surely the average fan is more concerned about winning football games, than how much interest the club is paying...
would totally ruin watching the football for me if all I'm thinking about is stuff behind the scenes that has zero baring on myself personally, probably why I'm happier than most football fans to be fair
for me it feels a bit like shopping at Asda, all your fav stuff is in there, but being annoyed that the group has bought another store and turned it into a petrol station - has nothing to do with me, nor does it affect the amount of oranges I buy
When in teh champ our revenues say 30 mill, our admin costs 31 mill.
revenue go up to 40m, admin costs suddenly 41 mill
Go to Prem, revenues £190m, admin costs £195 mill
I'm choosing arbitrary figures here but you get the picture.
Every flight, every hotel, every meal, every single expense possible gets paid for by the club, AR hasn't lost a penny.
He has had to come up with schemes to try and buy players, get 49ers to invest because he hasn't got the money himself etc etc.
Take into account all the money he's managed to take out like this plus money pumped in by 49ers plus his sale price and I'd say he's at least 100mill better off, at least.
We're left with a completely run down ER, no solution in sight for our training ground which he talked about over and over again and a hugely expensive, underperforming squad.
My point is exactly why they hate the glazers. There’s a distinct separation between owners money and the clubs. They are not the same thing. Glazers take money out of the club rather than invest. And pay themselves handsomely to run the club. And it’s debatable how much involvement they actually have.
But I do get your point. Fans expect that owners should be giving the club money year on year. And in AR’s case that wasn’t even acknowledged by most of our fans. And because he’s too thin skinned to be a football club owner he couldn’t handle it.
But owners don’t really ever give money to a club. Brighton owe their owner over £500m in loans. When it comes to selling the club and moving on the next owners will likely have to pay that all back as part of the sale.
If the club is successful like it is at the moment for Brighton that’s not really a problem. But what if Tony Bloom’s other business start to struggle and he needs to start calling in some of that loan?
What if he gets bored? Who is going to come and buy a club with over £40 of debt that’s revenue and market share aren’t worth it.
For me I would like an owner that pushes us slightly with personal wealth but would not too far. Not to the point that it’s not us that us as fans that generate it. And not to the point it becomes dangerous or a potential burden. And I know that means we will never win the league. But none of it lasts and it’s not real. It’s more fun being part of the journey.
M
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 15 minutes ago
When in teh champ our revenues say 30 mill, our admin costs 31 mill.
revenue go up to 40m, admin costs suddenly 41 mill
Go to Prem, revenues £190m, admin costs £195 mill
I'm choosing arbitrary figures here but you get the picture.
Every flight, every hotel, every meal, every single expense possible gets paid for by the club, AR hasn't lost a penny.
He has had to come up with schemes to try and buy players, get 49ers to invest because he hasn't got the money himself etc etc.
Take into account all the money he's managed to take out like this plus money pumped in by 49ers plus his sale price and I'd say he's at least 100mill better off, at least.
We're left with a completely run down ER, no solution in sight for our training ground which he talked about over and over again and a hugely expensive, underperforming squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically all the admin costs are the player wages btw.
It’s one of the really good things that AR did in increases the wage budget to the level it took to get us promoted, which obviously included Bielsa and his teams salary
Thinking how much Radrizzani made - or lost - on the sale of the club - "failing upwards" - just makes me want to puke to be honest.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 15 hours, 47 minutes ago
Thinking how much Radrizzani made - or lost - on the sale of the club - "failing upwards" - just makes me want to puke to be honest.
-----------------
why?
Because he has made such a pig's ear of the golden opportunity served up to him by Bielsa.
On selling, he realises a tidy profit, no doubt, which makes me sick because here we are back in the Championship. Radrizzani is therefore rewarded handsomely while the club and its fans suffer.
But he failed, spectacularly, to realise the maximisation of that potential profit on selling. Paradoxically, I'd be feeling even more nauseated had he done so but at least we'd still be in the PL. It's sickening that the value of the club has plummeted to such a degree.
Our headless, gutless exit from the PL leaves me feeling sicker still. New owners but they're very much an unknown quantity; a complete rebuild required in short time but no DoF, no coach,and there's a big exit on the cards. This terrible situation turns my guts and the buck stops with Radrizzani.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 23 minutes ago
Because he has made such a pig's ear of the golden opportunity served up to him by Bielsa.
------------
totally agree with this statement Jaz, he did/has.
just seems strange / obsessive / odd to expect someone to get everything right at every turn, to make 'you want to puke' would surely be more appropriate if he's frauded us in some way, or purposely made any errors he's guilty of.
an owner of any business is surely entitle to make a profit, mistakes or no mistakes.
unless you see him as a con man?
I mean, some comments above are mind boggling... "run down ER', like he's left it to rot? - not seen outside the ground then? - billy bremner statuse and tiles look sensational, all around here (I work net to ER) the lampposts are freshly painting leeds colours etc.
not saying he's not made some mistakes, but to be to the point puking? - you should prob pick up a few extra hobbies Jaz
"Our headless, gutless exit from the PL leaves me feeling sicker still. New owners but they're very much an unknown quantity; a complete rebuild required in short time but no DoF, no coach,and there's a big exit on the cards. This terrible situation turns my guts and the buck stops with Radrizzani."
Thing people should see is he did what nobody else did or wanted to, he got us back up!..
Mistake was not having the right people around him to help him on the football side off things, I think there has to be a bit off blame somewhere there!..
He's entitled to the same profit anyone is, problem for him was like I said, having people around him that were out of their depth and were giving his money out and not their own!..
I'm sure he would be a lot happier if Leeds had stayed in the Premiership, and I don't think that would have been just because off the money!..
The same as I'm sure the 49ers ain't been sitting on their thumbs while getting this deal over the line!..
urgh, yet again here I am discussing football ownership again
Summers all about cricket - Jaz - I'll be puking myself when I see Steve Smith walk to the middle
Yeah maybe you're right - I need another interest like stamp collecting or something. Something that doesn't punch me in the guts every weekend.
re the cricket, I am confident the mighty Stokes will work his magic and if not, there's always Anderson!
Some of posters on this thread appear extremely naive in being unable to see to impossibility of being able to match up business expectations with community expectations.
Few owners are the selfless philanthropists some fans seem to expect.
Many fans have an expectant idealism. A sense of entitlement.
An answer of £x,£y or £z is the response to the OP’s question.
Interestingly, the responses seem to be more focused towards whether the owner ‘deserves’ an £x, £y or £z figure !
I suspect Man C fans aren’t bothered about such a question. As one poster said, their team is winning, so everything else other than that is not important.
I suspect Newcastle fans are in the same boat.
So this really says that most fans would be happy for the owner to make money as long as their team wins, but if the team aren’t winning so much, they’re fleecing the club.
Hmmmmm 🤔
Think this is really about human nature and the increasing ‘want want want’ expectations that seem more and more prevalent in the world lately.
Perhaps long-standing fans like me who’ve seen the full range of good and bad over 60 years can accept that ‘this is Leeds’. But I can understand that those who’ve only seen the last 20 years might pine more.
Instead of looking backwards at AR, now is about how we go forward.
Despite the amount of money the 49ers might invest, it’s clear that the football decisions are going to be more important than the money.
Look at how Newcastle transformed to Champions League from being level with Leeds last year. Despite the wealth of their owners, their spending was only fractionally more than we spent. So my question is, who is making those correct footballing decisions now at Newcastle (I’m sure it’s not the money-men).
Eddie Howe? Don’t think so. I think it’s Dan Ashworth. Joined Newcastle as Sporting director Feb 22, after 3 year at Brighton. I don’t think it’s a coincidence to link the improvement of Brighton from 2019 to 2022, and Newcastle from 2022 to 2023.
What can we learn from that?
Perhaps it’s that Orta’s replacement is the single most important decision the 49ers need to make.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 13 minutes ago
Yeah maybe you're right - I need another interest like stamp collecting or something. Something that doesn't punch me in the guts every weekend.
re the cricket, I am confident the mighty Stokes will work his magic and if not, there's always Anderson!
------------------------------
agree Jaz, stamp collecting an absolute scream
I read this site often and do find it funny (if a little baffling) how people get so hung up on owner issues, not so much us Leeds fans, really thinking about the United fans tbf.
ref Stokes, and the cricket - well to be honest I heard one of the seats has come loose at Edgbaston, left to rot, no way can we win a cricket match now, no chance
Salonika, agree.
its always the same posters tho - think I feel a bit sorry for them actually, if they are like this over something thats supposed to be fun (sport, football), imagine what they are like with actual life issues?
I always picture the poster wife coming in, 'oh, Hi, good day?, i just got a lovely steak for our tea? ""WHAT, REALLY, how much would that of cost at Tesco?, was that your 5th Choice steak?, didn;t you know the owner of that shop posted a picture of himself enjoying a tesco icecream, his ego is out of control, how can I possible enjoy this steak?
just open the win ya moaning old g1 t,
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How much did Radz really make?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 12/6/23
But money must already have changed hands for the 49ers to become 44% owners -- 44% of £400m?
posted on 12/6/23
I thought to take the club off Cellino he paid a lot more than 40m!..
I think he paid 50m for 50% and about the same again to take full control, I might be wrong but I think he did!..
posted on 12/6/23
Any "commission " from clubs for paying high price for some players from some clubs. Just asking.
posted on 12/6/23
Not sure where ASER/Radz tax jurisdiction is, but tax has to be factored in.
posted on 12/6/23
He didn't make anything from player sales. That's not how businesses work.
Leeds United (or whatever the company name is at companies house) makes/loses the money. Not the owner.
Amortisation of players is nothing to do with the amount owed. If a player is bought for £10m and the payment is made up front in full, on a 4 year contract, the players value will still be amortised over the lenght of the contract and depreciate at £2.5m/year.
Staged payment for players transfers are debt owed by the club, not the owner and so will still be owed by the club regardless of who the owner is. The club will have a list of creditors of which the majority of the value owed will be for player transfers. This is all on the balance sheet and impacts the value of the company.
As mentioned above you have accounted for the sale of the 56% that has been agreed, but not for the previous 44% which will increase the return on investment significantly. Without checking I'm assuming that the previous 29% purchase was at a value higher than the £170m as we were in the Premier League then.
Also, AR obviously invested a big chunk of money in the club to get us promoted and fund Bielsa and the rest of the wage budget. How that was invested I am not sure, if it was as directors loans has he been paid back, or have they been written off as part of the purchase price?
He also paid for the purchase of the stadium which is included in the sale price.
Without having the full accounts we will never know how much he's made. But basically player transfers and the clubs profit and loss have nothing to do with the equation.
It's about how much he's put in (purchase price, investment) and how much he's got out (sale price, salary, interest on loans)
posted on 12/6/23
Excellent commentary, Faith. From what you are saying, there has been a significant outlay on his part. I remember him saying he had put in 100m in one season, not sure when though. However, will we ever know how much he took out in salary, bonuses, commissions and rent? It sounds like there are a lot of variables to consider.
posted on 12/6/23
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 2 minutes ago
Excellent commentary, Faith. From what you are saying, there has been a significant outlay on his part. I remember him saying he had put in 100m in one season, not sure when though. However, will we ever know how much he took out in salary, bonuses, commissions and rent? It sounds like there are a lot of variables to consider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not seen the £100m figure but if he loaned the company that, which is pretty standard, then the company still owes him that money until the debt is paid off or the debt is written off.
And let's say Leeds United is valued at £170m. AR loans deposits £30m into the clubs accounts to cover costs this summer. The club is now £30m more valuable because the bank balance which is an asset is obviously £30m better off. But that is cancelled out by the £30m debt the club now has as a loan to AR of £30m. This shows as a liabilty.
So club assets increases by £30m.
But Liabilities also increase by £30m.
So value stays the same. (probably slightly less because interest will accrue on the loan) but you get the picture.
posted on 12/6/23
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
He didn't make anything from player sales. That's not how businesses work.
Leeds United (or whatever the company name is at companies house) makes/loses the money. Not the owner.
Amortisation of players is nothing to do with the amount owed. If a player is bought for £10m and the payment is made up front in full, on a 4 year contract, the players value will still be amortised over the lenght of the contract and depreciate at £2.5m/year.
Staged payment for players transfers are debt owed by the club, not the owner and so will still be owed by the club regardless of who the owner is. The club will have a list of creditors of which the majority of the value owed will be for player transfers. This is all on the balance sheet and impacts the value of the company.
As mentioned above you have accounted for the sale of the 56% that has been agreed, but not for the previous 44% which will increase the return on investment significantly. Without checking I'm assuming that the previous 29% purchase was at a value higher than the £170m as we were in the Premier League then.
Also, AR obviously invested a big chunk of money in the club to get us promoted and fund Bielsa and the rest of the wage budget. How that was invested I am not sure, if it was as directors loans has he been paid back, or have they been written off as part of the purchase price?
He also paid for the purchase of the stadium which is included in the sale price.
Without having the full accounts we will never know how much he's made. But basically player transfers and the clubs profit and loss have nothing to do with the equation.
It's about how much he's put in (purchase price, investment) and how much he's got out (sale price, salary, interest on loans)
-------------------------------------------------
Faith, very interesting read.. and makes sense actually as its written down, thanks
with all that in mind tho, why do owners come under so much scrutiny about how much money they've invested etc?
posted on 12/6/23
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
posted on 12/6/23
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
posted on 12/6/23
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the club, as spent fortunes on interest, caused by the leverage buyout Glaziers did.
Stadium as been left to rot and been left behind in training ground.
Been shocking owners
posted on 12/6/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
Our owners have come under scrutiny because they allowed a golden opportunity with a massively supported club, with history, to be relegated due to poor recruitment.
35 Million record acquisition for a player not fit/ready to hit the ground running plus 40M for a player who played about 30 minutes is an incompetent disgrace.
Can't feel any sympathy for that kind of naivety.
Grateful that Radz wrenched it off the Sardinian and for the hiring of Marcelo but that's where it stops.
------------
yeah Rev I get that... I was more thinking of United and the glazors tbf... United fans always seem to b complaining at them, but they've spent a fortune on players... with Faiths business post above, I'm struggling to see why the fans are so 'on their case'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the club, as spent fortunes on interest, caused by the leverage buyout Glaziers did.
Stadium as been left to rot and been left behind in training ground.
Been shocking owners
---------------------------------
right, I mean, as a football fan tho, we pay at the gate to watch players right? - if that club is spending millions upon millions on transfers etc, always top 4, CL football, trophies (all bit it the league cup) I don;t get why you'd have a pop at the owners,
what am I missing? - surely the average fan is more concerned about winning football games, than how much interest the club is paying...
would totally ruin watching the football for me if all I'm thinking about is stuff behind the scenes that has zero baring on myself personally, probably why I'm happier than most football fans to be fair
for me it feels a bit like shopping at Asda, all your fav stuff is in there, but being annoyed that the group has bought another store and turned it into a petrol station - has nothing to do with me, nor does it affect the amount of oranges I buy
posted on 12/6/23
When in teh champ our revenues say 30 mill, our admin costs 31 mill.
revenue go up to 40m, admin costs suddenly 41 mill
Go to Prem, revenues £190m, admin costs £195 mill
I'm choosing arbitrary figures here but you get the picture.
Every flight, every hotel, every meal, every single expense possible gets paid for by the club, AR hasn't lost a penny.
He has had to come up with schemes to try and buy players, get 49ers to invest because he hasn't got the money himself etc etc.
Take into account all the money he's managed to take out like this plus money pumped in by 49ers plus his sale price and I'd say he's at least 100mill better off, at least.
We're left with a completely run down ER, no solution in sight for our training ground which he talked about over and over again and a hugely expensive, underperforming squad.
posted on 12/6/23
My point is exactly why they hate the glazers. There’s a distinct separation between owners money and the clubs. They are not the same thing. Glazers take money out of the club rather than invest. And pay themselves handsomely to run the club. And it’s debatable how much involvement they actually have.
But I do get your point. Fans expect that owners should be giving the club money year on year. And in AR’s case that wasn’t even acknowledged by most of our fans. And because he’s too thin skinned to be a football club owner he couldn’t handle it.
But owners don’t really ever give money to a club. Brighton owe their owner over £500m in loans. When it comes to selling the club and moving on the next owners will likely have to pay that all back as part of the sale.
If the club is successful like it is at the moment for Brighton that’s not really a problem. But what if Tony Bloom’s other business start to struggle and he needs to start calling in some of that loan?
What if he gets bored? Who is going to come and buy a club with over £40 of debt that’s revenue and market share aren’t worth it.
For me I would like an owner that pushes us slightly with personal wealth but would not too far. Not to the point that it’s not us that us as fans that generate it. And not to the point it becomes dangerous or a potential burden. And I know that means we will never win the league. But none of it lasts and it’s not real. It’s more fun being part of the journey.
M
posted on 12/6/23
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 15 minutes ago
When in teh champ our revenues say 30 mill, our admin costs 31 mill.
revenue go up to 40m, admin costs suddenly 41 mill
Go to Prem, revenues £190m, admin costs £195 mill
I'm choosing arbitrary figures here but you get the picture.
Every flight, every hotel, every meal, every single expense possible gets paid for by the club, AR hasn't lost a penny.
He has had to come up with schemes to try and buy players, get 49ers to invest because he hasn't got the money himself etc etc.
Take into account all the money he's managed to take out like this plus money pumped in by 49ers plus his sale price and I'd say he's at least 100mill better off, at least.
We're left with a completely run down ER, no solution in sight for our training ground which he talked about over and over again and a hugely expensive, underperforming squad.
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Basically all the admin costs are the player wages btw.
It’s one of the really good things that AR did in increases the wage budget to the level it took to get us promoted, which obviously included Bielsa and his teams salary
posted on 12/6/23
Thinking how much Radrizzani made - or lost - on the sale of the club - "failing upwards" - just makes me want to puke to be honest.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 15 hours, 47 minutes ago
Thinking how much Radrizzani made - or lost - on the sale of the club - "failing upwards" - just makes me want to puke to be honest.
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why?
posted on 13/6/23
Because he has made such a pig's ear of the golden opportunity served up to him by Bielsa.
On selling, he realises a tidy profit, no doubt, which makes me sick because here we are back in the Championship. Radrizzani is therefore rewarded handsomely while the club and its fans suffer.
But he failed, spectacularly, to realise the maximisation of that potential profit on selling. Paradoxically, I'd be feeling even more nauseated had he done so but at least we'd still be in the PL. It's sickening that the value of the club has plummeted to such a degree.
Our headless, gutless exit from the PL leaves me feeling sicker still. New owners but they're very much an unknown quantity; a complete rebuild required in short time but no DoF, no coach,and there's a big exit on the cards. This terrible situation turns my guts and the buck stops with Radrizzani.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 23 minutes ago
Because he has made such a pig's ear of the golden opportunity served up to him by Bielsa.
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totally agree with this statement Jaz, he did/has.
just seems strange / obsessive / odd to expect someone to get everything right at every turn, to make 'you want to puke' would surely be more appropriate if he's frauded us in some way, or purposely made any errors he's guilty of.
an owner of any business is surely entitle to make a profit, mistakes or no mistakes.
unless you see him as a con man?
I mean, some comments above are mind boggling... "run down ER', like he's left it to rot? - not seen outside the ground then? - billy bremner statuse and tiles look sensational, all around here (I work net to ER) the lampposts are freshly painting leeds colours etc.
not saying he's not made some mistakes, but to be to the point puking? - you should prob pick up a few extra hobbies Jaz
posted on 13/6/23
"Our headless, gutless exit from the PL leaves me feeling sicker still. New owners but they're very much an unknown quantity; a complete rebuild required in short time but no DoF, no coach,and there's a big exit on the cards. This terrible situation turns my guts and the buck stops with Radrizzani."
Thing people should see is he did what nobody else did or wanted to, he got us back up!..
Mistake was not having the right people around him to help him on the football side off things, I think there has to be a bit off blame somewhere there!..
He's entitled to the same profit anyone is, problem for him was like I said, having people around him that were out of their depth and were giving his money out and not their own!..
I'm sure he would be a lot happier if Leeds had stayed in the Premiership, and I don't think that would have been just because off the money!..
The same as I'm sure the 49ers ain't been sitting on their thumbs while getting this deal over the line!..
posted on 13/6/23
urgh, yet again here I am discussing football ownership again
Summers all about cricket - Jaz - I'll be puking myself when I see Steve Smith walk to the middle
posted on 13/6/23
Yeah maybe you're right - I need another interest like stamp collecting or something. Something that doesn't punch me in the guts every weekend.
re the cricket, I am confident the mighty Stokes will work his magic and if not, there's always Anderson!
posted on 13/6/23
Some of posters on this thread appear extremely naive in being unable to see to impossibility of being able to match up business expectations with community expectations.
Few owners are the selfless philanthropists some fans seem to expect.
Many fans have an expectant idealism. A sense of entitlement.
An answer of £x,£y or £z is the response to the OP’s question.
Interestingly, the responses seem to be more focused towards whether the owner ‘deserves’ an £x, £y or £z figure !
I suspect Man C fans aren’t bothered about such a question. As one poster said, their team is winning, so everything else other than that is not important.
I suspect Newcastle fans are in the same boat.
So this really says that most fans would be happy for the owner to make money as long as their team wins, but if the team aren’t winning so much, they’re fleecing the club.
Hmmmmm 🤔
Think this is really about human nature and the increasing ‘want want want’ expectations that seem more and more prevalent in the world lately.
Perhaps long-standing fans like me who’ve seen the full range of good and bad over 60 years can accept that ‘this is Leeds’. But I can understand that those who’ve only seen the last 20 years might pine more.
Instead of looking backwards at AR, now is about how we go forward.
Despite the amount of money the 49ers might invest, it’s clear that the football decisions are going to be more important than the money.
Look at how Newcastle transformed to Champions League from being level with Leeds last year. Despite the wealth of their owners, their spending was only fractionally more than we spent. So my question is, who is making those correct footballing decisions now at Newcastle (I’m sure it’s not the money-men).
Eddie Howe? Don’t think so. I think it’s Dan Ashworth. Joined Newcastle as Sporting director Feb 22, after 3 year at Brighton. I don’t think it’s a coincidence to link the improvement of Brighton from 2019 to 2022, and Newcastle from 2022 to 2023.
What can we learn from that?
Perhaps it’s that Orta’s replacement is the single most important decision the 49ers need to make.
posted on 13/6/23
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 13 minutes ago
Yeah maybe you're right - I need another interest like stamp collecting or something. Something that doesn't punch me in the guts every weekend.
re the cricket, I am confident the mighty Stokes will work his magic and if not, there's always Anderson!
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agree Jaz, stamp collecting an absolute scream
I read this site often and do find it funny (if a little baffling) how people get so hung up on owner issues, not so much us Leeds fans, really thinking about the United fans tbf.
ref Stokes, and the cricket - well to be honest I heard one of the seats has come loose at Edgbaston, left to rot, no way can we win a cricket match now, no chance
posted on 13/6/23
Salonika, agree.
its always the same posters tho - think I feel a bit sorry for them actually, if they are like this over something thats supposed to be fun (sport, football), imagine what they are like with actual life issues?
I always picture the poster wife coming in, 'oh, Hi, good day?, i just got a lovely steak for our tea? ""WHAT, REALLY, how much would that of cost at Tesco?, was that your 5th Choice steak?, didn;t you know the owner of that shop posted a picture of himself enjoying a tesco icecream, his ego is out of control, how can I possible enjoy this steak?
just open the win ya moaning old g1 t,
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