That sounds logical Sal and if true and I think you make a strong argument for it to be so and therefore it's great news because then the club's owners are not handicapped by huge financial losses and can invest significantly in the rebuild of our squad which should in theory be good enough then to bounce straight back.
We don't know what the loan fees are but I'm guessing they can't be that paultry because a few clubs like Fulham were amazingly prepared to take Aaronson off our hands, pay his wages but seemed to get put off by whatever the loan fee was.
Just going by what we had to pay City for Harrison that was 2-3 million so if we multiply that lower end figure of 2 million quid by 5 players leaving us on loan that's still £10 million, not to be sniffed at and goes "into the pot"... slight shudder at that Ken Bates expression but even so it all helps.
Just to be clear on what your trying to say.
The club hasnt lost any money because 49ners will have paid less for the club ?
So just so am clear on what your saying,
The missing sales revenue from selling these 3 players, instead of loans. Where, who and how is that getting covered ?
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 12 minutes ago
Just to be clear on what your trying to say.
The club hasnt lost any money because 49ners will have paid less for the club ?
So just so am clear on what your saying,
The missing sales revenue from selling these 3 players, instead of loans. Where, who and how is that getting covered ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah LIW…. I’m wondering if the 49E’s have valued , say, Koch, at effectively £zero, in their assessment of the value of the playing squad, on the basis that Koch’s contract allowed him to go out on loan. If his contact hadn’t allowed that, surely, the 49E’s (and AR) would have ‘agreed’ an ‘expected fee’ amount which they might have expected to obtain, which in turn would have been added to the squad value, which would have changed the value of the sum AR expected for the buyout?
So effectively, hasn’t AR ‘covered’ those losses?
I really don’t know, but it seems logical??
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
Let's face it, Orta punked the club.
25 mil and then loaned out 12 months later. Total fail
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 6 hours, 18 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely correct, LIW. What surprises me is that Orta seems to have set up one dreadful deal after another, completely unchecked. Southamption and Leicester are not running fire sales at the moment, but we can't give our players away fast enough.
Accepted, 49'ers were minority shareholders until the takeover, but they did have a substantial interest. We often saw Marathe alongside Radz in the directors' box and I don't think they spent all that time singing MOT. It begs the question, how much was Marathe aware of what was going on? To me, it looks like either negligence in not examining the evidence, or complicity in letting them get on with it, under the assurances that relegation was impossible. Either way, it's a bad look for the 49'ers. Hopefully they learn from this and prove to be better custodians of LUFC than Radz has been in the last couple of years.
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point LIW. Hadn’t taken that into account.
Rethinking this… don’t these loan deals give us another problem… FFP…. Believe player sales income can be used offset FFP. Can’t see how loans help…. Is this a double Orta whammy, effectively limiting what 49E’s can spend even if they wanted to ?
comment by The heart of Farkeness (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 6 hours, 18 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely correct, LIW. What surprises me is that Orta seems to have set up one dreadful deal after another, completely unchecked. Southamption and Leicester are not running fire sales at the moment, but we can't give our players away fast enough.
Accepted, 49'ers were minority shareholders until the takeover, but they did have a substantial interest. We often saw Marathe alongside Radz in the directors' box and I don't think they spent all that time singing MOT. It begs the question, how much was Marathe aware of what was going on? To me, it looks like either negligence in not examining the evidence, or complicity in letting them get on with it, under the assurances that relegation was impossible. Either way, it's a bad look for the 49'ers. Hopefully they learn from this and prove to be better custodians of LUFC than Radz has been in the last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone seems to think 49ers are solution to all.
I haven't seen anything from them yet to suggest that we're in safe hands and all teh evidence I have seen is that one bad owner seems to manage to sell us to another.
We all know teh facts here.
The 49ers have zero experience of their own of how to run a football club.
They have zero experience of promotion/relegation impact.
The player market here is completely different to US sport.
They were part of last couple of years of our business and the rubbish position it has left us in.
We can all lament teh quality of teh players brought in and I imagine almost all of us expect many to leave and therefore we at least recoup something that can help us fund rebuild.
But giving Lllorente long contract and then loaning him out, letting Koch go on loan in his last year, loaning Aaronson out, it's just awful business.
Are we really expecting Lllorente and Arronson come back after a year and just fit back into Leeds side?
No, just get rid now, cut losses, stop making problems for us down the line.
And what about Koch, are we expecting him to finish loan, come back and say ok I'd like another contract?
Just get rid, give ourselves a clean slate.
Agree 49E’s haven’t deep experience in the areas Jonty mentions, but they do have fairly deep pockets, it’s thought. Not the same as, but aren’t there similarities to new Newcastle owners? If so then it’s not what they know it’s who they appoint.
Am kind of on the page with this ‘new slate’ thinking too. A new energised squad.
Really not expecting them to get this right year 1 so am not expecting immediate promotion back to EPL this year.
People saying what players are earning, some have said they've had a 50-60% pay cut, if so than 100m is now a lot less than last season!..
And incoming players, we're not seeing things because I thought the 49ers cant do much until the league give them the go ahead, so its upto the league to do their bit and feck us about in their usual thrappy anti us way!..
We all know its their way off doing things!..
I was genuinely shocked when the club gave Llorente a new contract.
If anybody ever tries to pin something on Orta and are looking for corrupt transfer dealings, they should start there.
The Llorente contract fiasco stands out amongst a catalogue of disastrous deals done by the club. The line trotted out at the time of "protecting his value for a future sale" made me laugh out loud.
Orta shoulders the majority of blame however he was allowed to run amok with deals like this and many others by people above him. Radz and the 49ers stood by while everybody with eyes could see the deals being done were awful. Over paying for poor players, offering long contracts which were not justified, the list goes on. The owners must take their share of criticism for allowing the situation to continue to the point where we were the 2nd worst team in the league.
Add Roca to the list of loanees.
Off to Real Betis with an option to buy.
Anyone going to the Manchester Utd game on Wednesday may bring their boots
Lllorente - 18m
Koch - 13m
Aaronson - 30m
Roca 13m
How to throw away 74m
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 22 minutes ago
Lllorente - 18m
Koch - 13m
Aaronson - 30m
Roca 13m
How to throw away 74m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teams like Brentford, Fulham, Brighton have been successful spending a fraction of that. Shocking management at the club.
Option to buy 🤣🤣🤣
So were loaning him out again next season.
Rinse and Repeat
Brentford have only just broken their record by paying a huge £23 M! - How can they get it so right compared to the above? - Maybe they have no idea where countries such as Austria are?
I'm wondering how much off a say the 49ers had when it came to Orta's dealings, because it seems the only say they had with Harrison was paying to keep him at the club!..
Not sure about the Marsch deal but I have a feeling other deals that were done they didn't have to much to say!..
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
I'm wondering how much off a say the 49ers had when it came to Orta's dealings, because it seems the only say they had with Harrison was paying to keep him at the club!..
Not sure about the Marsch deal but I have a feeling other deals that were done they didn't have to much to say!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd imagine that they had little say in the choice of player.
leave it to Victor.
Remember when TC was pressed on transfers?
Ask Victor was his constant reply.
49ers have no knowledge of players or transfer system, they trust AR when he says Orta does good job, Ar will have told him get this as cheap as you can, structure this so we pay later etc, its the sign of someone who doesn't really have the money but wants to play with the big boys.
I imagine there might be restrictions on sales/purchases until deal is formal, who knows, but loaning out like this is ludicrous.
None of us want these players back, none of them probably want to come back, how many of our players ever go out on loan and we end up getting good fee for them?
Maybe now people can see how our owners put on a smile but were just as calamitous behind the scenes as previous owners.
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Loan deals aren’t costing us?
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posted on 9/7/23
That sounds logical Sal and if true and I think you make a strong argument for it to be so and therefore it's great news because then the club's owners are not handicapped by huge financial losses and can invest significantly in the rebuild of our squad which should in theory be good enough then to bounce straight back.
We don't know what the loan fees are but I'm guessing they can't be that paultry because a few clubs like Fulham were amazingly prepared to take Aaronson off our hands, pay his wages but seemed to get put off by whatever the loan fee was.
Just going by what we had to pay City for Harrison that was 2-3 million so if we multiply that lower end figure of 2 million quid by 5 players leaving us on loan that's still £10 million, not to be sniffed at and goes "into the pot"... slight shudder at that Ken Bates expression but even so it all helps.
posted on 9/7/23
Just to be clear on what your trying to say.
The club hasnt lost any money because 49ners will have paid less for the club ?
So just so am clear on what your saying,
The missing sales revenue from selling these 3 players, instead of loans. Where, who and how is that getting covered ?
posted on 9/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 12 minutes ago
Just to be clear on what your trying to say.
The club hasnt lost any money because 49ners will have paid less for the club ?
So just so am clear on what your saying,
The missing sales revenue from selling these 3 players, instead of loans. Where, who and how is that getting covered ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah LIW…. I’m wondering if the 49E’s have valued , say, Koch, at effectively £zero, in their assessment of the value of the playing squad, on the basis that Koch’s contract allowed him to go out on loan. If his contact hadn’t allowed that, surely, the 49E’s (and AR) would have ‘agreed’ an ‘expected fee’ amount which they might have expected to obtain, which in turn would have been added to the squad value, which would have changed the value of the sum AR expected for the buyout?
So effectively, hasn’t AR ‘covered’ those losses?
I really don’t know, but it seems logical??
posted on 9/7/23
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
posted on 9/7/23
Let's face it, Orta punked the club.
posted on 9/7/23
25 mil and then loaned out 12 months later. Total fail
posted on 10/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 6 hours, 18 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely correct, LIW. What surprises me is that Orta seems to have set up one dreadful deal after another, completely unchecked. Southamption and Leicester are not running fire sales at the moment, but we can't give our players away fast enough.
Accepted, 49'ers were minority shareholders until the takeover, but they did have a substantial interest. We often saw Marathe alongside Radz in the directors' box and I don't think they spent all that time singing MOT. It begs the question, how much was Marathe aware of what was going on? To me, it looks like either negligence in not examining the evidence, or complicity in letting them get on with it, under the assurances that relegation was impossible. Either way, it's a bad look for the 49'ers. Hopefully they learn from this and prove to be better custodians of LUFC than Radz has been in the last couple of years.
posted on 10/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point LIW. Hadn’t taken that into account.
Rethinking this… don’t these loan deals give us another problem… FFP…. Believe player sales income can be used offset FFP. Can’t see how loans help…. Is this a double Orta whammy, effectively limiting what 49E’s can spend even if they wanted to ?
posted on 10/7/23
comment by The heart of Farkeness (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 6 hours, 18 minutes ago
Dont forget they already owned 44% or whatever.
So if they devaluing that as well.
This loan is bad for everyone
Club
49ners
Rad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely correct, LIW. What surprises me is that Orta seems to have set up one dreadful deal after another, completely unchecked. Southamption and Leicester are not running fire sales at the moment, but we can't give our players away fast enough.
Accepted, 49'ers were minority shareholders until the takeover, but they did have a substantial interest. We often saw Marathe alongside Radz in the directors' box and I don't think they spent all that time singing MOT. It begs the question, how much was Marathe aware of what was going on? To me, it looks like either negligence in not examining the evidence, or complicity in letting them get on with it, under the assurances that relegation was impossible. Either way, it's a bad look for the 49'ers. Hopefully they learn from this and prove to be better custodians of LUFC than Radz has been in the last couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone seems to think 49ers are solution to all.
I haven't seen anything from them yet to suggest that we're in safe hands and all teh evidence I have seen is that one bad owner seems to manage to sell us to another.
We all know teh facts here.
The 49ers have zero experience of their own of how to run a football club.
They have zero experience of promotion/relegation impact.
The player market here is completely different to US sport.
They were part of last couple of years of our business and the rubbish position it has left us in.
We can all lament teh quality of teh players brought in and I imagine almost all of us expect many to leave and therefore we at least recoup something that can help us fund rebuild.
But giving Lllorente long contract and then loaning him out, letting Koch go on loan in his last year, loaning Aaronson out, it's just awful business.
Are we really expecting Lllorente and Arronson come back after a year and just fit back into Leeds side?
No, just get rid now, cut losses, stop making problems for us down the line.
And what about Koch, are we expecting him to finish loan, come back and say ok I'd like another contract?
Just get rid, give ourselves a clean slate.
posted on 10/7/23
Agree 49E’s haven’t deep experience in the areas Jonty mentions, but they do have fairly deep pockets, it’s thought. Not the same as, but aren’t there similarities to new Newcastle owners? If so then it’s not what they know it’s who they appoint.
Am kind of on the page with this ‘new slate’ thinking too. A new energised squad.
Really not expecting them to get this right year 1 so am not expecting immediate promotion back to EPL this year.
posted on 10/7/23
People saying what players are earning, some have said they've had a 50-60% pay cut, if so than 100m is now a lot less than last season!..
And incoming players, we're not seeing things because I thought the 49ers cant do much until the league give them the go ahead, so its upto the league to do their bit and feck us about in their usual thrappy anti us way!..
We all know its their way off doing things!..
posted on 10/7/23
I was genuinely shocked when the club gave Llorente a new contract.
If anybody ever tries to pin something on Orta and are looking for corrupt transfer dealings, they should start there.
posted on 10/7/23
The Llorente contract fiasco stands out amongst a catalogue of disastrous deals done by the club. The line trotted out at the time of "protecting his value for a future sale" made me laugh out loud.
Orta shoulders the majority of blame however he was allowed to run amok with deals like this and many others by people above him. Radz and the 49ers stood by while everybody with eyes could see the deals being done were awful. Over paying for poor players, offering long contracts which were not justified, the list goes on. The owners must take their share of criticism for allowing the situation to continue to the point where we were the 2nd worst team in the league.
posted on 10/7/23
Add Roca to the list of loanees.
Off to Real Betis with an option to buy.
Anyone going to the Manchester Utd game on Wednesday may bring their boots
posted on 10/7/23
Lllorente - 18m
Koch - 13m
Aaronson - 30m
Roca 13m
How to throw away 74m
posted on 10/7/23
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 22 minutes ago
Lllorente - 18m
Koch - 13m
Aaronson - 30m
Roca 13m
How to throw away 74m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teams like Brentford, Fulham, Brighton have been successful spending a fraction of that. Shocking management at the club.
posted on 10/7/23
Option to buy 🤣🤣🤣
So were loaning him out again next season.
Rinse and Repeat
posted on 10/7/23
Brentford have only just broken their record by paying a huge £23 M! - How can they get it so right compared to the above? - Maybe they have no idea where countries such as Austria are?
posted on 10/7/23
I'm wondering how much off a say the 49ers had when it came to Orta's dealings, because it seems the only say they had with Harrison was paying to keep him at the club!..
Not sure about the Marsch deal but I have a feeling other deals that were done they didn't have to much to say!..
posted on 10/7/23
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
I'm wondering how much off a say the 49ers had when it came to Orta's dealings, because it seems the only say they had with Harrison was paying to keep him at the club!..
Not sure about the Marsch deal but I have a feeling other deals that were done they didn't have to much to say!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd imagine that they had little say in the choice of player.
leave it to Victor.
Remember when TC was pressed on transfers?
Ask Victor was his constant reply.
49ers have no knowledge of players or transfer system, they trust AR when he says Orta does good job, Ar will have told him get this as cheap as you can, structure this so we pay later etc, its the sign of someone who doesn't really have the money but wants to play with the big boys.
I imagine there might be restrictions on sales/purchases until deal is formal, who knows, but loaning out like this is ludicrous.
None of us want these players back, none of them probably want to come back, how many of our players ever go out on loan and we end up getting good fee for them?
Maybe now people can see how our owners put on a smile but were just as calamitous behind the scenes as previous owners.
Page 1 of 1