VOF, Jonty posted this in the OP below yours.
FYI and all that.
But, you're right. It's a really interesting read. And
I think everyone on here needs to read it. It'll calm
a few nerves. Made me very optimistic on the club's
future and present.
The stadium redevelopment was the most exciting
part for me. As it finally looks to be happening. And
why? Because the 49E understand the financial
clout our fan base and a modernized ER brings us.
Great stuff.
I get calmer by the day. Ha.
Looking like Glen Tamara is next one in after Darlow.
And in the event that LIW chimes in with "But have
you seen him play?" Yes. Many times. Thanks to this
glorious thing called a TV and a subscription. He's
a really solid player. Hope we do land him.
Kamara Adams Ampadu would have the potential to be one of the best midfield units that the championship has ever seen, for me. It's a good mix of players that should each compliment the other. Maybe lacking a more advanced technician, but think Kamara could be that.
Not read the article, but always nice when people post these things twice, so that those of us that Jonty has filtered can still contribute.
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
Another perspective:
So, Aaronson’s original balance sheet value of £25m has already been written down to £21m. This suggests his market value is only going one way at present.
It is very dangerous, not to say foolhardy, to keep an asset on a balance sheet at a falsely inflated value. Who would pay £21m for Aaronson now? Nobody is my bet. Therefore, we’ve got ‘hot air’ on the balance sheet right now, and we’re relying on him having a ‘good season’ to bolster his value. Putting it another way, we’re taking a huge risk. This can also probably be repeated for some/most/all of the others who left on loan.
Part 2 to follow …
Part 2:
Why does this matter? A simple example. Say you own a house, and you want to believe it’s worth £500k. You run your life based on the fact that you have a £500k asset. However, when you come to sell it, you realise the true value is £250k. You then have to face the reality of that. By falsely maintaining the value of the asset at the inflated price only delays the pain. Of course, you only get that pain if you sell the asset.
Back to Aaronson, the only way we don’t get that pain is not to sell him until his market value improves. So we trust to luck that he somehow impresses this season and his value increases. This process would carry on until he retires, as which point we’d be forced to re-value his true worth on our balance sheet - i.e. £0.
Btw, many public organisations in history have gone into melt-down when it’s been realised that their balance sheet isn’t worth what it says on paper. A very dangerous, risky situation for any company or person to be in.
Lubo.... must admit i missed the fact Jonty posted on the thread before, so i'll not try and take any credit for making it available for others!! However it does give a different perspective on perhaps the motives and focus of the 49ers.
Els - yes when I read the piece late last night it made me think of your comments. I do wonder if the logic is to shift as many of the high earners of the wage bill for the next season. Then, if promoted, they return again to a prem league side? Some I know no one wants back, but that may not be the perception of those now running the club?
Right now all views have merit pretty much, even your take TLB - i can see that too.
For me right now the priority is getting my refund and using it to buy a new shirt for next season. Then I can't wait for the Cardiff fixture and for life to resume as i prefer it - at matches. All this other stuff is distractions and frustrating.
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 37 seconds ago
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've given all owners benefit of the doubt .... often to be proven disappointingly wrong .... but it's my take on life and I'll not change. I don't believe the 49ers have any other motive than to make a profit, which I take means we'll be successful as a result. Time will tell.
Some seem to interpret every word they say into some kind of positive stance. They’ll have my backing once they’ve earned it (49ers).
Different perspectives. Helps the world go ‘round.
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 37 minutes ago
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What words?
Apart from “Any questions?” There are no quotes from 49ers whatsoever in that piece,
That is the cleverness of what they have done, fans interpret things rather than look at what was actually said by whom.
49ers been really clever to allow no direct quotes in
That piece.
comment by Elsbels - El Mago (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Els
Read what Light has said.
This isnt good business at all.
If we keep hold of a few players (Sini, Harrison, Adams etc) and sign a few players we've been linked with Kamara, Piroe and Phillips etc. That's all that can be expected right now until the premier league money comes in.
Wouldn't surprise me if the club spends money this summer whilst planning to sell some of those first-teamers that they can't sell now in January.
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - El Mago (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Els
Read what Light has said.
This isnt good business at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not saying it is and neither am I saying I am happy with the way the club has gone about their business but nevertheless, it appears that this is what they were thinking.
My thoughts however go back to the last time when we were raped by the likes of Spurs who came in robbed us blind and we were asset stripped. Potentially, this way, that doesn't happen.
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 7 minutes ago
If we keep hold of a few players (Sini, Harrison, Adams etc) and sign a few players we've been linked with Kamara, Piroe and Phillips etc. That's all that can be expected right now until the premier league money comes in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t think people are expecting a lot more.
BUT everyone said deals will all be ready to be done just waiting for takeover.
They clearly weren’t.
People say we’re now one of richest clubs, yet we’re scratching around for Karl Darlow.
I praised 49ers for comms last week but this mail piece is big red flag and I’m worried about lack of appropriate inbound transfers.
At this stage tomorrows friendly will just be existing players again which leaves just Saturday for any sort of pre season friendly with any new players bar Ampadu.
Not ideal preparation at all but hey it’s great to know they’ve rejected plans for a bowl type stadium.
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt - pretty standard in any world I think.
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 26 minutes ago
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt- pretty standard in any world I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do not know what I know anf what I do not know 🤷🏻♂️
Its actually basic maths, Its an absolute shocker, and will possibly effect us for next four years
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 26 minutes ago
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt- pretty standard in any world I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do not know what I know anf what I do not know 🤷🏻♂️
Its actually basic maths, Its an absolute shocker, and will possibly effect us for next four years
-------------------
meant in general really tbf pal, not personal to you but I'm still guessing it applies
can't comment at all if its good or bad, nor do I pretend to.. either way, gotta be reason behind why it is that way right? - can't imagine its an absent minded error can you?
You know any other club, done this before.
Leeds right and the rest wrong 🤷🏻♂️
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 24 seconds ago
You know any other club, done this before.
Leeds right and the rest wrong 🤷🏻♂️
-----------
would imagine a few tbf pal, but no idea, but why do YOU think they've done it that way? - malice? absent minded? - you tell me, you seem to know a lot more than the rest of us pal
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of these loan clauses, one thing we do know is that the players brought in last summer and a few others, with the exception of Adams, were either not good enough, injury prone or didn't have the stomach for a relegation dogfight. Very poor management and recruitment.
This should have been avoided and the ins and outs of players contracts a total irrelevance to the fans, because the team were winning and staying safe from the drop.
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Interesting read ….
Page 1 of 1
posted on 25/7/23
VOF, Jonty posted this in the OP below yours.
FYI and all that.
But, you're right. It's a really interesting read. And
I think everyone on here needs to read it. It'll calm
a few nerves. Made me very optimistic on the club's
future and present.
The stadium redevelopment was the most exciting
part for me. As it finally looks to be happening. And
why? Because the 49E understand the financial
clout our fan base and a modernized ER brings us.
Great stuff.
I get calmer by the day. Ha.
Looking like Glen Tamara is next one in after Darlow.
posted on 25/7/23
*Kamara.
posted on 25/7/23
And in the event that LIW chimes in with "But have
you seen him play?" Yes. Many times. Thanks to this
glorious thing called a TV and a subscription. He's
a really solid player. Hope we do land him.
posted on 26/7/23
Kamara Adams Ampadu would have the potential to be one of the best midfield units that the championship has ever seen, for me. It's a good mix of players that should each compliment the other. Maybe lacking a more advanced technician, but think Kamara could be that.
Not read the article, but always nice when people post these things twice, so that those of us that Jonty has filtered can still contribute.
posted on 26/7/23
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
posted on 26/7/23
Another perspective:
So, Aaronson’s original balance sheet value of £25m has already been written down to £21m. This suggests his market value is only going one way at present.
It is very dangerous, not to say foolhardy, to keep an asset on a balance sheet at a falsely inflated value. Who would pay £21m for Aaronson now? Nobody is my bet. Therefore, we’ve got ‘hot air’ on the balance sheet right now, and we’re relying on him having a ‘good season’ to bolster his value. Putting it another way, we’re taking a huge risk. This can also probably be repeated for some/most/all of the others who left on loan.
Part 2 to follow …
posted on 26/7/23
Part 2:
Why does this matter? A simple example. Say you own a house, and you want to believe it’s worth £500k. You run your life based on the fact that you have a £500k asset. However, when you come to sell it, you realise the true value is £250k. You then have to face the reality of that. By falsely maintaining the value of the asset at the inflated price only delays the pain. Of course, you only get that pain if you sell the asset.
Back to Aaronson, the only way we don’t get that pain is not to sell him until his market value improves. So we trust to luck that he somehow impresses this season and his value increases. This process would carry on until he retires, as which point we’d be forced to re-value his true worth on our balance sheet - i.e. £0.
Btw, many public organisations in history have gone into melt-down when it’s been realised that their balance sheet isn’t worth what it says on paper. A very dangerous, risky situation for any company or person to be in.
posted on 26/7/23
Lubo.... must admit i missed the fact Jonty posted on the thread before, so i'll not try and take any credit for making it available for others!! However it does give a different perspective on perhaps the motives and focus of the 49ers.
Els - yes when I read the piece late last night it made me think of your comments. I do wonder if the logic is to shift as many of the high earners of the wage bill for the next season. Then, if promoted, they return again to a prem league side? Some I know no one wants back, but that may not be the perception of those now running the club?
Right now all views have merit pretty much, even your take TLB - i can see that too.
For me right now the priority is getting my refund and using it to buy a new shirt for next season. Then I can't wait for the Cardiff fixture and for life to resume as i prefer it - at matches. All this other stuff is distractions and frustrating.
posted on 26/7/23
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 37 seconds ago
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've given all owners benefit of the doubt .... often to be proven disappointingly wrong .... but it's my take on life and I'll not change. I don't believe the 49ers have any other motive than to make a profit, which I take means we'll be successful as a result. Time will tell.
posted on 26/7/23
Some seem to interpret every word they say into some kind of positive stance. They’ll have my backing once they’ve earned it (49ers).
Different perspectives. Helps the world go ‘round.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 37 minutes ago
Some seem to twist every word they say into some kind of negative stance. They have my backing until they prove me otherwise (49ers).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What words?
Apart from “Any questions?” There are no quotes from 49ers whatsoever in that piece,
That is the cleverness of what they have done, fans interpret things rather than look at what was actually said by whom.
49ers been really clever to allow no direct quotes in
That piece.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Elsbels - El Mago (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Els
Read what Light has said.
This isnt good business at all.
posted on 26/7/23
If we keep hold of a few players (Sini, Harrison, Adams etc) and sign a few players we've been linked with Kamara, Piroe and Phillips etc. That's all that can be expected right now until the premier league money comes in.
posted on 26/7/23
Wouldn't surprise me if the club spends money this summer whilst planning to sell some of those first-teamers that they can't sell now in January.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - El Mago (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
Interesting the journo from this rag makes exactly the same point that my post from the FB made "Much has been made of Leeds allowing players to leave on loan rather than selling them on. There is method in the madness. Take the case of Brenden Aaronson, for example. Leeds paid £25m for the US midfielder. Some £21m of that is still on the books.
Given current circumstances, they would be lucky to get £15m should they put him up for sale. Had they gone down that route it would be £6m down on the accounts.
Instead, Union Berlin are paying 100 per cent of Aaronson's wages. That cost is gone for a year. There is also a loan fee which, while small, is not insignificant. Immediately, space is created on the balance sheet. Union are in the Champions League. Should Aaronson impress, in a year's time his value will be higher than it is now. And should Leeds be in the Premier League by then, they may well want to bring him back into the squad".
So the loans much vilified, much criticised, make sound business sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Els
Read what Light has said.
This isnt good business at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not saying it is and neither am I saying I am happy with the way the club has gone about their business but nevertheless, it appears that this is what they were thinking.
My thoughts however go back to the last time when we were raped by the likes of Spurs who came in robbed us blind and we were asset stripped. Potentially, this way, that doesn't happen.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 7 minutes ago
If we keep hold of a few players (Sini, Harrison, Adams etc) and sign a few players we've been linked with Kamara, Piroe and Phillips etc. That's all that can be expected right now until the premier league money comes in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t think people are expecting a lot more.
BUT everyone said deals will all be ready to be done just waiting for takeover.
They clearly weren’t.
People say we’re now one of richest clubs, yet we’re scratching around for Karl Darlow.
I praised 49ers for comms last week but this mail piece is big red flag and I’m worried about lack of appropriate inbound transfers.
At this stage tomorrows friendly will just be existing players again which leaves just Saturday for any sort of pre season friendly with any new players bar Ampadu.
Not ideal preparation at all but hey it’s great to know they’ve rejected plans for a bowl type stadium.
posted on 26/7/23
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt - pretty standard in any world I think.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 26 minutes ago
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt- pretty standard in any world I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do not know what I know anf what I do not know 🤷🏻♂️
Its actually basic maths, Its an absolute shocker, and will possibly effect us for next four years
posted on 26/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Spanish Italians - its not coming home (U21595)
posted 26 minutes ago
"This isnt good business at all."
find it rather odd that an average Joe knows what 'good business' is over some super rich tansatlantic tycoon.
Not just an avergae Joe, a fan, someone whos view is totally tinted anyway!
without knowing the full ins and outs of any business dealing how can anyone make a call on whats good or bad business? - don't get it?
interesting read tho, the article I mean. but smacks of a sensational PR stunt- pretty standard in any world I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do not know what I know anf what I do not know 🤷🏻♂️
Its actually basic maths, Its an absolute shocker, and will possibly effect us for next four years
-------------------
meant in general really tbf pal, not personal to you but I'm still guessing it applies
can't comment at all if its good or bad, nor do I pretend to.. either way, gotta be reason behind why it is that way right? - can't imagine its an absent minded error can you?
posted on 26/7/23
You know any other club, done this before.
Leeds right and the rest wrong 🤷🏻♂️
posted on 26/7/23
comment by LIW Rad a %#@% and so is Orta (U8453)
posted 24 seconds ago
You know any other club, done this before.
Leeds right and the rest wrong 🤷🏻♂️
-----------
would imagine a few tbf pal, but no idea, but why do YOU think they've done it that way? - malice? absent minded? - you tell me, you seem to know a lot more than the rest of us pal
posted on 26/7/23
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of these loan clauses, one thing we do know is that the players brought in last summer and a few others, with the exception of Adams, were either not good enough, injury prone or didn't have the stomach for a relegation dogfight. Very poor management and recruitment.
This should have been avoided and the ins and outs of players contracts a total irrelevance to the fans, because the team were winning and staying safe from the drop.
Page 1 of 1