Cancel culture is a big threat to peoples freedom. We saw similar with Depp, and not directly correlated with Farage.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
Cancel culture is a big threat to peoples freedom. We saw similar with Depp, and not directly correlated with Farage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cancel culture seems to have come about since Metoo back in 2017. What men can do to women is despicable, but it's become far too easy to tell a little Porkie and cause irreparable damage to the career of someone
I remember watching the trailers of "all the money in the world" before the scandals came out and thought it should be a good movie. He had to be edited out once the accusations started.
I don't think it has had the expected views after that.
Careers are being ended just by an accusation
-----
On an unrelated note, I saw Culer and RDD the other day dealing behind the bins round the back of the argos
They owe me an apology for ruining House of Cards.
And yeah last series of HoC was poor.
Welcome to United Kevin as our new striker...
Harvey Weinstein must have a chance too. Not his fault women wanted to suck him off for movie roles.
The sheer number of complaints and allegations against him (many of them coming from quite successful people in showbusiness who aren't trying to sell their story and who didn't try to sue him) together with his apologies for inappropriate behaviour that he may have been guilty of but can't remember make it hard to believe there is a pattern of touching younger people in ways they may not have wanted while in a position of power. Regardless of whether this constituted criminal acts, and regardless of whether there are some chancers among the accusers, I'd rather live in a society where powerful figures can be called out, and don't feel they can do this with impunity. It's not 'cancel culture' having recourse against a boss who likes to grope people. It's accountability.
Of course there can be innocent victims when accusations are listened to. But let's be clear that there's no perfect system where the guilty get caught and the innocent never get slandered. The harder it is to name and shame, the more likely it is that powerful people will get away with exploiting the people around them. If you're appalled by #MeToo, think about how easily predators got away with things a generation ago. Personally, I'd rather live with the way things are now, where we listen seriously to accusations, than how they were in the 70s and 80s, where the balance of power tilted in the other direction. Personally, I'd sacrifice more Spaceys if it meant catching more Saviles. I don't think it's realistic to believe you can construct a society where there's the ideal amount of privacy for people in the public eye while seriously expecting to prevent people from abusing their power.
As to the OP and Netflix, genuine question: do we know whether he was fired on the basis of these specific accusations that led to the legal proceedings, or was it related to other instances of sexual misbehaviour which he acknowledged/didn't deny?
As with Greenwood, corporate behavioural standards and breaking the law can be very different things. There can be actions that don't break the law but fall short of contractually agreed behavioural standards. And the evidential threshold isn't necessarily going to be 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
As to the OP and Netflix, genuine question: do we know whether he was fired on the basis of these specific accusations that led to the legal proceedings, or was it related to other instances of sexual misbehaviour which he acknowledged/didn't deny?
As with Greenwood, corporate behavioural standards and breaking the law can be very different things. There can be actions that don't break the law but fall short of contractually agreed behavioural standards. And the evidential threshold isn't necessarily going to be 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Everything is black and white. Innocent/guilty, victim/liar. And everyone should be treated accordingly. Also if one so called victim lied, that means the next victim is also lying. Anyone with their characteristics is also therefore lying. One man innocent then all men innocent. That's just how it works and you need to respect that. Putting all of this together, Spacey being innocent means that the Greenwood tape was fake.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
The sheer number of complaints and allegations against him (many of them coming from quite successful people in showbusiness who aren't trying to sell their story and who didn't try to sue him) together with his apologies for inappropriate behaviour that he may have been guilty of but can't remember make it hard to believe there is a pattern of touching younger people in ways they may not have wanted while in a position of power. Regardless of whether this constituted criminal acts, and regardless of whether there are some chancers among the accusers, I'd rather live in a society where powerful figures can be called out, and don't feel they can do this with impunity. It's not 'cancel culture' having recourse against a boss who likes to grope people. It's accountability.
Of course there can be innocent victims when accusations are listened to. But let's be clear that there's no perfect system where the guilty get caught and the innocent never get slandered. The harder it is to name and shame, the more likely it is that powerful people will get away with exploiting the people around them. If you're appalled by #MeToo, think about how easily predators got away with things a generation ago. Personally, I'd rather live with the way things are now, where we listen seriously to accusations, than how they were in the 70s and 80s, where the balance of power tilted in the other direction. Personally, I'd sacrifice more Spaceys if it meant catching more Saviles. I don't think it's realistic to believe you can construct a society where there's the ideal amount of privacy for people in the public eye while seriously expecting to prevent people from abusing their power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you stop using big words ffs
Cancel culture seems to have come about since Metoo back in 2017.
———
Cancel culture is as old as time.
It's a difficult situation with no easy answer.
Go too hard on the accuser and you will put off the many, many real victims, who are already in a very fearful place and will be scared to come forward and testify (for a crime that has proved hard to prosecute in court). This is magnified many fold with cases against rich and powerful people.
If someone's career and possibly life gets ruined with accusations, that also needs to be dealt with severely if conclusively found the person was lying.
In the clamour to protect the people who get wrongly accused though, we should never overlook the suffering of the people this crime affects.
Also don't see why you are using Jimmy Savile as an example as to why we should believe liars just for the sake of it. He was never convicted. He is innocent. It is far safer to ignore what could be baseless accusations instead of risking someone's career that they've worked really hard for.
I am with the Jimmy Savile fans on here on this one.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
It's a difficult situation with no easy answer.
Go too hard on the accuser and you will put off the many, many real victims, who are already in a very fearful place and will be scared to come forward and testify (for a crime that has proved hard to prosecute in court). This is magnified many fold with cases against rich and powerful people.
If someone's career and possibly life gets ruined with accusations, that also needs to be dealt with severely if conclusively found the person was lying.
In the clamour to protect the people who get wrongly accused though, we should never overlook the suffering of the people this crime affects.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
We should note that in the case of acquittals in rape / serious sexual assault cases, it's rarely because the court found the accuser was lying. In most cases it's just impossible to prove to the exclusion of any doubt because these things rarely have witnesses and even in cases of material evidence (injuries, DNA evidence) and compelling testimonies a defence of consent and 'it got a bit out of hand' has been sufficient for a not-guilty verdict.
I'm not advocating we lower the burden of proof, because that has terrible implications. But we should challenge the quite popular notion that a significant proportion of sexual assault accusations are fabricated.
Just goes to show that there should be complete anonymity in these trials until there is a verdict.
Revealing the name of either party involved should be a criminal offence.
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 5 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The so called victims got found GUILTY of lying in a court of law and RR has the audacity to question the verdict. It should be a criminal offence to question our justice system.
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 7 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dickhead
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 7 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dickhead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't expect the system to let me post that. Good to know.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, Diafol. I'm also saying that clapfreesince2003 wants us to return to a world where people like Jimmy Savile get to rape as many vulnerable people as they like and grow old as a free and wealthy man, celebrated as a national treasure.
Taken fckin years and years to clear himself though, hard position for Netflix or any employer. If they’d continued to give him work and pay him millions all this time and then he was found guilty today instead, they would be in a mess too, not a good look.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, Diafol. I'm also saying that clapfreesince2003 wants us to return to a world where people like Jimmy Savile get to rape as many vulnerable people as they like and grow old as a free and wealthy man, celebrated as a national treasure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More libellous comments about an innocent man. He was never found guilty. He may be dead but people like you could end up ruining his reputation that he worked really hard for. Just because he is dead doesn't give you the right to slander an innocent man.
Sign in if you want to comment
Kevin Spacey cleared
Page 1 of 3
posted on 26/7/23
Cancel culture is a big threat to peoples freedom. We saw similar with Depp, and not directly correlated with Farage.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 5 minutes ago
Cancel culture is a big threat to peoples freedom. We saw similar with Depp, and not directly correlated with Farage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cancel culture seems to have come about since Metoo back in 2017. What men can do to women is despicable, but it's become far too easy to tell a little Porkie and cause irreparable damage to the career of someone
posted on 26/7/23
I remember watching the trailers of "all the money in the world" before the scandals came out and thought it should be a good movie. He had to be edited out once the accusations started.
I don't think it has had the expected views after that.
posted on 26/7/23
Careers are being ended just by an accusation
-----
On an unrelated note, I saw Culer and RDD the other day dealing behind the bins round the back of the argos
posted on 26/7/23
They owe me an apology for ruining House of Cards.
posted on 26/7/23
And yeah last series of HoC was poor.
posted on 26/7/23
Welcome to United Kevin as our new striker...
posted on 26/7/23
Harvey Weinstein must have a chance too. Not his fault women wanted to suck him off for movie roles.
posted on 26/7/23
The sheer number of complaints and allegations against him (many of them coming from quite successful people in showbusiness who aren't trying to sell their story and who didn't try to sue him) together with his apologies for inappropriate behaviour that he may have been guilty of but can't remember make it hard to believe there is a pattern of touching younger people in ways they may not have wanted while in a position of power. Regardless of whether this constituted criminal acts, and regardless of whether there are some chancers among the accusers, I'd rather live in a society where powerful figures can be called out, and don't feel they can do this with impunity. It's not 'cancel culture' having recourse against a boss who likes to grope people. It's accountability.
Of course there can be innocent victims when accusations are listened to. But let's be clear that there's no perfect system where the guilty get caught and the innocent never get slandered. The harder it is to name and shame, the more likely it is that powerful people will get away with exploiting the people around them. If you're appalled by #MeToo, think about how easily predators got away with things a generation ago. Personally, I'd rather live with the way things are now, where we listen seriously to accusations, than how they were in the 70s and 80s, where the balance of power tilted in the other direction. Personally, I'd sacrifice more Spaceys if it meant catching more Saviles. I don't think it's realistic to believe you can construct a society where there's the ideal amount of privacy for people in the public eye while seriously expecting to prevent people from abusing their power.
posted on 26/7/23
As to the OP and Netflix, genuine question: do we know whether he was fired on the basis of these specific accusations that led to the legal proceedings, or was it related to other instances of sexual misbehaviour which he acknowledged/didn't deny?
As with Greenwood, corporate behavioural standards and breaking the law can be very different things. There can be actions that don't break the law but fall short of contractually agreed behavioural standards. And the evidential threshold isn't necessarily going to be 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
As to the OP and Netflix, genuine question: do we know whether he was fired on the basis of these specific accusations that led to the legal proceedings, or was it related to other instances of sexual misbehaviour which he acknowledged/didn't deny?
As with Greenwood, corporate behavioural standards and breaking the law can be very different things. There can be actions that don't break the law but fall short of contractually agreed behavioural standards. And the evidential threshold isn't necessarily going to be 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Everything is black and white. Innocent/guilty, victim/liar. And everyone should be treated accordingly. Also if one so called victim lied, that means the next victim is also lying. Anyone with their characteristics is also therefore lying. One man innocent then all men innocent. That's just how it works and you need to respect that. Putting all of this together, Spacey being innocent means that the Greenwood tape was fake.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
The sheer number of complaints and allegations against him (many of them coming from quite successful people in showbusiness who aren't trying to sell their story and who didn't try to sue him) together with his apologies for inappropriate behaviour that he may have been guilty of but can't remember make it hard to believe there is a pattern of touching younger people in ways they may not have wanted while in a position of power. Regardless of whether this constituted criminal acts, and regardless of whether there are some chancers among the accusers, I'd rather live in a society where powerful figures can be called out, and don't feel they can do this with impunity. It's not 'cancel culture' having recourse against a boss who likes to grope people. It's accountability.
Of course there can be innocent victims when accusations are listened to. But let's be clear that there's no perfect system where the guilty get caught and the innocent never get slandered. The harder it is to name and shame, the more likely it is that powerful people will get away with exploiting the people around them. If you're appalled by #MeToo, think about how easily predators got away with things a generation ago. Personally, I'd rather live with the way things are now, where we listen seriously to accusations, than how they were in the 70s and 80s, where the balance of power tilted in the other direction. Personally, I'd sacrifice more Spaceys if it meant catching more Saviles. I don't think it's realistic to believe you can construct a society where there's the ideal amount of privacy for people in the public eye while seriously expecting to prevent people from abusing their power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you stop using big words ffs
posted on 26/7/23
Cancel culture seems to have come about since Metoo back in 2017.
———
Cancel culture is as old as time.
posted on 26/7/23
It's a difficult situation with no easy answer.
Go too hard on the accuser and you will put off the many, many real victims, who are already in a very fearful place and will be scared to come forward and testify (for a crime that has proved hard to prosecute in court). This is magnified many fold with cases against rich and powerful people.
If someone's career and possibly life gets ruined with accusations, that also needs to be dealt with severely if conclusively found the person was lying.
In the clamour to protect the people who get wrongly accused though, we should never overlook the suffering of the people this crime affects.
posted on 26/7/23
Also don't see why you are using Jimmy Savile as an example as to why we should believe liars just for the sake of it. He was never convicted. He is innocent. It is far safer to ignore what could be baseless accusations instead of risking someone's career that they've worked really hard for.
I am with the Jimmy Savile fans on here on this one.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
It's a difficult situation with no easy answer.
Go too hard on the accuser and you will put off the many, many real victims, who are already in a very fearful place and will be scared to come forward and testify (for a crime that has proved hard to prosecute in court). This is magnified many fold with cases against rich and powerful people.
If someone's career and possibly life gets ruined with accusations, that also needs to be dealt with severely if conclusively found the person was lying.
In the clamour to protect the people who get wrongly accused though, we should never overlook the suffering of the people this crime affects.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
We should note that in the case of acquittals in rape / serious sexual assault cases, it's rarely because the court found the accuser was lying. In most cases it's just impossible to prove to the exclusion of any doubt because these things rarely have witnesses and even in cases of material evidence (injuries, DNA evidence) and compelling testimonies a defence of consent and 'it got a bit out of hand' has been sufficient for a not-guilty verdict.
I'm not advocating we lower the burden of proof, because that has terrible implications. But we should challenge the quite popular notion that a significant proportion of sexual assault accusations are fabricated.
posted on 26/7/23
Just goes to show that there should be complete anonymity in these trials until there is a verdict.
Revealing the name of either party involved should be a criminal offence.
posted on 26/7/23
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 5 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The so called victims got found GUILTY of lying in a court of law and RR has the audacity to question the verdict. It should be a criminal offence to question our justice system.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 7 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dickhead
posted on 26/7/23
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 7 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dickhead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't expect the system to let me post that. Good to know.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, Diafol. I'm also saying that clapfreesince2003 wants us to return to a world where people like Jimmy Savile get to rape as many vulnerable people as they like and grow old as a free and wealthy man, celebrated as a national treasure.
posted on 26/7/23
Taken fckin years and years to clear himself though, hard position for Netflix or any employer. If they’d continued to give him work and pay him millions all this time and then he was found guilty today instead, they would be in a mess too, not a good look.
posted on 26/7/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 6 minutes ago
It doesn't matter what the verdict was Red Russian had already made his mind up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian well known for his ill-thought out views of course!
He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure what he's saying is that it's very difficult to prove rape so a lot of cases don't end in conviction. That doesn't mean we should discourage victims from coming forward though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, Diafol. I'm also saying that clapfreesince2003 wants us to return to a world where people like Jimmy Savile get to rape as many vulnerable people as they like and grow old as a free and wealthy man, celebrated as a national treasure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More libellous comments about an innocent man. He was never found guilty. He may be dead but people like you could end up ruining his reputation that he worked really hard for. Just because he is dead doesn't give you the right to slander an innocent man.
Page 1 of 3