Refs are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that. They can earn as much as £70,000 per year, an MP gets around £15,000 more.
I acknowledge it's not easy but many worse paying jobs are not. They know what they're getting into and if anyone feels like it's too much they can just quit and carry on whatever other hustle they have alongside reffing. They're such a closely controlled closed shop that's not answerable to anyone anyway.
They're being paid to do all they can to get decisions right and they clearly don't do that, take it for granted, looking out for a mate's wrong decision and so knowingly interfere with a football match which should be an utterly grievous offence, bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure it happens more often than you'd think. This is what we know, obviously there's much more. They are immune apparently because their job is so tough. I don't buy that sheet.
PGMOL is rotten. They have basically rejected VAR by (having no choice) implementing it but still wanting to keep things the same as much as possible, leading to frustration from fans who stoopidly want the old way back, which would make them very happy. The enemy of VAR implementing VAR is stoopid and no surprise the results are terrible.
You can tell they aren't trying very hard by not being at the front in bringing in new technology and aspects. For example, last world cup had 3D offside which eliminated the stoopid lines and even close decisions looked easy. I thought they'd be all over that last season. This season I've seen a few other leagues have implemented it, but the richest and greatest show on earth has not and continues to draw stoopid lines on a screen? Where is the drive to be better?
One reason I'm sticking with VAR is because it exposes just how incompetent they are. So it's a tough job but even tough jobs can have incompetence. VAR was brought in to help them and if ever there was a testament to their incompetence then VAR is it. They should have improved by accepting VAR as a tool that can help them get better, but they've arguably gotten worse, or are just more exposed due to VAR and treat it like some interference to the process.
Rules like "clear and obvious" are clearly in place so they can protect each other, it's a clear joke that I'm surprised they get away with to hide their incompetence behind. Sometimes they take the mickey with reviews and it's like "well this is what you wanted, right?" It's like they want an outcry for VAR to be removed from the game.
They're scared for their positions and threatened by a reduction of their importance, going from smugly having the last word to being a mere vassal for relaying what the last word actually is, which is what should happen in this day and age of technology. They're dinosaurs enjoying the backing of dinosaur football fans who are afraid to see the game move with the times.
So IMO
-Give VAR the power
-Under a new framework organisation that takes the expectations of modern viewers into account as expectations of today are not the same as even 20 years ago.
-That would be able to humbly embrace and accept VAR as their superior and the ultimate, and themselves as the subordinate.
-Willing to develop and improve VAR use, rather than VAR being seen as an accessory to these who see themselves as the superior and ultimate instead
-Get rid of dinosaurs.
Rant over for now.
Ex refs should never be in VAR studios. It should be someone impartial who have there own accountability.
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 1 minute ago
Ex refs should never be in VAR studios. It should be someone impartial who have there own accountability.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Could be for the best tbf, did you read Mike Deans recent admission?
Mike Dean declined to use VAR to save a 'mate' and fellow referee from 'grief'
Kind of sheit we kinda expected goes on, they protect eachother to the hills and never want to be held accountable and wanna be free to do what they want when they want. Now we know for sure.
The rugby world cup kicks off in a couple of weeks.
Any rugby fan will tell you that the sport comes with twice as many subjective nuances and interpretations as football does.
But the authorities have ruined top-flight rugby as a result of an obsession with using tech to explain all the refereeing decisions.
Literally ending up with a referee who has to choreograph every single phase of play while wired up to the stadium sound system. Considerably slowing the game down as he repeatedly has to stop play and give a brief lecture on how he came to a decision.
But all it does is raise even more issues and make the fans angrier as a result.
I can't remember who it was, but I heard an interview with a former last year where he basically admitted that his decisions were very often informed by off-the-pitch issues (worries about media pressure, fan anger, and the likes).
I do think the final decision needs to reside with the on-pitch ref, because it's important that he retains the authority in the eyes of the players.
That said, they have to be made much more accountable, because even with VAR they still make some inexplicably bad decisions. A lot more transparency is needed. For starters, I'd mic them up and have them explain key decisions for all to hear. Making them go on record might would leave them with no place to hide when they want to make a blatantly wrong decision.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 40 minutes ago
Refs are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that. They can earn as much as £70,000 per year, an MP gets around £15,000 more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Blimey, I wouldn't do that job for £70k a year. No chance. All the scrutiny and public pressure plus the wide range of knuckle-dragging football fans just abusing you and your family.
All that and you get paid the same in a year as the man-child player screaming in your face gets over the weekend? No thanks.
Seriously, all the money in football and we pay people who materially impact the outcome of a game up to £70k pa whilst agents pocket millions. Jeez.
I can only imagine how difficult it is to ref a game. This nonsense of trying to go with the on field decision as much as possible is not the way forward.
There's been 3 shocking decisions I can think of already this season.
The MacAllister one, all they have to do is view that on VAR and overturn the red card. The fact that it was overturned after the game just shows what a mess this all is. I'm far from a Liverpool fan but against better opposition that could have been unfairly costly.
Onana vs Wolves. Of course I'm glad it wasn't given but that's a penalty all day.
Romero vs United. I don't agree with the current rules on handball. My argument is that you can't play football with your arms down by your side at all times but in the current rules it's a penalty.
There's no excuse for getting so much wrong when you have VAR.
They're both absolutely useless. Need ex players to be involved as I trust them to apply common sense to decisions.
VAR should only be used for blatant errors such as the hand of god and Henry handball v Ireland. It shouldn't be used to scrutinise absolutely everything. It's not a video assistant, its video interference
Ref should have the final say and shouldn't keep getting told what decision to make by VAR
Replays on the side of the pitch should be for the ref to second check a decision, not to be told what to do by the var lot upstairs.
Football wasn't this bad before VAR
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66612570
Here you go. We all said it, that var refuse to make correct decisions in case they upset their mates. Absolute joke.
This was also the guy in studio said macallister was a red card
Still backing up.his mates even though he is no longer in the prof ranks.
comment by Shaun M - supercalifragilisticOrtaisatrocious (U9955)
posted 12 minutes ago
They're both absolutely useless. Need ex players to be involved as I trust them to apply common sense to decisions.
VAR should only be used for blatant errors such as the hand of god and Henry handball v Ireland. It shouldn't be used to scrutinise absolutely everything. It's not a video assistant, its video interference
Ref should have the final say and shouldn't keep getting told what decision to make by VAR
Replays on the side of the pitch should be for the ref to second check a decision, not to be told what to do by the var lot upstairs.
Football wasn't this bad before VAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex-footballers are the worst when it comes to a lack of partiality.
Former keepers will almost always side with a fellow member of the goalkeeper "union".
Former attacking players tend to defend any attempts at conning the ref as "clever". While former defensive players look the other way when it comes to the dark arts.
It didn't help that the VAR last weekend was Paul Tierney who seems to have developed a specific dislike of Klopp and/or Liverpool. Liverpool have a statistically significant drop in their win percentage over the last 6 years when Tierney is involved in their games.
https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/detailed-analysis-the-alarming-abnormal
Var should have final say. They have the evidence. Simple
Var should be used to take the pressure off the ref. Likes of fergie back in the day getting in their ears.
David Ellaray admitted in his autobiography adding time at old trafford due to pressure.
Take this away from them get unbiased operators to run VAR its really that simple.
comment by Rouge (U19907)
posted 5 seconds ago
Var should have final say. They have the evidence. Simple
Var should be used to take the pressure off the ref. Likes of fergie back in the day getting in their ears.
David Ellaray admitted in his autobiography adding time at old trafford due to pressure.
Take this away from them get unbiased operators to run VAR its really that simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I can only imagine how difficult it is to ref a game. This nonsense of trying to go with the on field decision as much as possible is not the way forward.
====
Things like that will happen when you're asking dinosaurs to relinquish their authority.
"We'll bring in VAR because of all the errors of on pitch decisions, but at the same time do all we can to stick with on field decisions, which are the reason we are bringing in VAR in the first place, just so we can't stick with them".
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 27 minutes ago
It didn't help that the VAR last weekend was Paul Tierney who seems to have developed a specific dislike of Klopp and/or Liverpool. Liverpool have a statistically significant drop in their win percentage over the last 6 years when Tierney is involved in their games.
https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/detailed-analysis-the-alarming-abnormal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incredible read. Damning.
Page 1 of 1
First
Previous
1
Next
Latest
Sign in if you want to comment
VAR vs Match Ref
Page 1 of 1
posted on 25/8/23
Refs are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that. They can earn as much as £70,000 per year, an MP gets around £15,000 more.
I acknowledge it's not easy but many worse paying jobs are not. They know what they're getting into and if anyone feels like it's too much they can just quit and carry on whatever other hustle they have alongside reffing. They're such a closely controlled closed shop that's not answerable to anyone anyway.
They're being paid to do all they can to get decisions right and they clearly don't do that, take it for granted, looking out for a mate's wrong decision and so knowingly interfere with a football match which should be an utterly grievous offence, bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure it happens more often than you'd think. This is what we know, obviously there's much more. They are immune apparently because their job is so tough. I don't buy that sheet.
PGMOL is rotten. They have basically rejected VAR by (having no choice) implementing it but still wanting to keep things the same as much as possible, leading to frustration from fans who stoopidly want the old way back, which would make them very happy. The enemy of VAR implementing VAR is stoopid and no surprise the results are terrible.
You can tell they aren't trying very hard by not being at the front in bringing in new technology and aspects. For example, last world cup had 3D offside which eliminated the stoopid lines and even close decisions looked easy. I thought they'd be all over that last season. This season I've seen a few other leagues have implemented it, but the richest and greatest show on earth has not and continues to draw stoopid lines on a screen? Where is the drive to be better?
One reason I'm sticking with VAR is because it exposes just how incompetent they are. So it's a tough job but even tough jobs can have incompetence. VAR was brought in to help them and if ever there was a testament to their incompetence then VAR is it. They should have improved by accepting VAR as a tool that can help them get better, but they've arguably gotten worse, or are just more exposed due to VAR and treat it like some interference to the process.
Rules like "clear and obvious" are clearly in place so they can protect each other, it's a clear joke that I'm surprised they get away with to hide their incompetence behind. Sometimes they take the mickey with reviews and it's like "well this is what you wanted, right?" It's like they want an outcry for VAR to be removed from the game.
They're scared for their positions and threatened by a reduction of their importance, going from smugly having the last word to being a mere vassal for relaying what the last word actually is, which is what should happen in this day and age of technology. They're dinosaurs enjoying the backing of dinosaur football fans who are afraid to see the game move with the times.
So IMO
-Give VAR the power
-Under a new framework organisation that takes the expectations of modern viewers into account as expectations of today are not the same as even 20 years ago.
-That would be able to humbly embrace and accept VAR as their superior and the ultimate, and themselves as the subordinate.
-Willing to develop and improve VAR use, rather than VAR being seen as an accessory to these who see themselves as the superior and ultimate instead
-Get rid of dinosaurs.
Rant over for now.
posted on 25/8/23
Ex refs should never be in VAR studios. It should be someone impartial who have there own accountability.
posted on 25/8/23
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 1 minute ago
Ex refs should never be in VAR studios. It should be someone impartial who have there own accountability.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Could be for the best tbf, did you read Mike Deans recent admission?
Mike Dean declined to use VAR to save a 'mate' and fellow referee from 'grief'
Kind of sheit we kinda expected goes on, they protect eachother to the hills and never want to be held accountable and wanna be free to do what they want when they want. Now we know for sure.
posted on 25/8/23
The rugby world cup kicks off in a couple of weeks.
Any rugby fan will tell you that the sport comes with twice as many subjective nuances and interpretations as football does.
But the authorities have ruined top-flight rugby as a result of an obsession with using tech to explain all the refereeing decisions.
Literally ending up with a referee who has to choreograph every single phase of play while wired up to the stadium sound system. Considerably slowing the game down as he repeatedly has to stop play and give a brief lecture on how he came to a decision.
But all it does is raise even more issues and make the fans angrier as a result.
posted on 25/8/23
I can't remember who it was, but I heard an interview with a former last year where he basically admitted that his decisions were very often informed by off-the-pitch issues (worries about media pressure, fan anger, and the likes).
I do think the final decision needs to reside with the on-pitch ref, because it's important that he retains the authority in the eyes of the players.
That said, they have to be made much more accountable, because even with VAR they still make some inexplicably bad decisions. A lot more transparency is needed. For starters, I'd mic them up and have them explain key decisions for all to hear. Making them go on record might would leave them with no place to hide when they want to make a blatantly wrong decision.
posted on 25/8/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 40 minutes ago
Refs are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that. They can earn as much as £70,000 per year, an MP gets around £15,000 more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Blimey, I wouldn't do that job for £70k a year. No chance. All the scrutiny and public pressure plus the wide range of knuckle-dragging football fans just abusing you and your family.
All that and you get paid the same in a year as the man-child player screaming in your face gets over the weekend? No thanks.
Seriously, all the money in football and we pay people who materially impact the outcome of a game up to £70k pa whilst agents pocket millions. Jeez.
posted on 25/8/23
I can only imagine how difficult it is to ref a game. This nonsense of trying to go with the on field decision as much as possible is not the way forward.
There's been 3 shocking decisions I can think of already this season.
The MacAllister one, all they have to do is view that on VAR and overturn the red card. The fact that it was overturned after the game just shows what a mess this all is. I'm far from a Liverpool fan but against better opposition that could have been unfairly costly.
Onana vs Wolves. Of course I'm glad it wasn't given but that's a penalty all day.
Romero vs United. I don't agree with the current rules on handball. My argument is that you can't play football with your arms down by your side at all times but in the current rules it's a penalty.
There's no excuse for getting so much wrong when you have VAR.
posted on 25/8/23
They're both absolutely useless. Need ex players to be involved as I trust them to apply common sense to decisions.
VAR should only be used for blatant errors such as the hand of god and Henry handball v Ireland. It shouldn't be used to scrutinise absolutely everything. It's not a video assistant, its video interference
Ref should have the final say and shouldn't keep getting told what decision to make by VAR
Replays on the side of the pitch should be for the ref to second check a decision, not to be told what to do by the var lot upstairs.
Football wasn't this bad before VAR
posted on 25/8/23
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66612570
Here you go. We all said it, that var refuse to make correct decisions in case they upset their mates. Absolute joke.
posted on 25/8/23
This was also the guy in studio said macallister was a red card
Still backing up.his mates even though he is no longer in the prof ranks.
posted on 25/8/23
comment by Shaun M - supercalifragilisticOrtaisatrocious (U9955)
posted 12 minutes ago
They're both absolutely useless. Need ex players to be involved as I trust them to apply common sense to decisions.
VAR should only be used for blatant errors such as the hand of god and Henry handball v Ireland. It shouldn't be used to scrutinise absolutely everything. It's not a video assistant, its video interference
Ref should have the final say and shouldn't keep getting told what decision to make by VAR
Replays on the side of the pitch should be for the ref to second check a decision, not to be told what to do by the var lot upstairs.
Football wasn't this bad before VAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex-footballers are the worst when it comes to a lack of partiality.
Former keepers will almost always side with a fellow member of the goalkeeper "union".
Former attacking players tend to defend any attempts at conning the ref as "clever". While former defensive players look the other way when it comes to the dark arts.
posted on 25/8/23
It didn't help that the VAR last weekend was Paul Tierney who seems to have developed a specific dislike of Klopp and/or Liverpool. Liverpool have a statistically significant drop in their win percentage over the last 6 years when Tierney is involved in their games.
https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/detailed-analysis-the-alarming-abnormal
posted on 25/8/23
Var should have final say. They have the evidence. Simple
Var should be used to take the pressure off the ref. Likes of fergie back in the day getting in their ears.
David Ellaray admitted in his autobiography adding time at old trafford due to pressure.
Take this away from them get unbiased operators to run VAR its really that simple.
posted on 25/8/23
comment by Rouge (U19907)
posted 5 seconds ago
Var should have final say. They have the evidence. Simple
Var should be used to take the pressure off the ref. Likes of fergie back in the day getting in their ears.
David Ellaray admitted in his autobiography adding time at old trafford due to pressure.
Take this away from them get unbiased operators to run VAR its really that simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
posted on 25/8/23
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I can only imagine how difficult it is to ref a game. This nonsense of trying to go with the on field decision as much as possible is not the way forward.
====
Things like that will happen when you're asking dinosaurs to relinquish their authority.
"We'll bring in VAR because of all the errors of on pitch decisions, but at the same time do all we can to stick with on field decisions, which are the reason we are bringing in VAR in the first place, just so we can't stick with them".
posted on 25/8/23
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 27 minutes ago
It didn't help that the VAR last weekend was Paul Tierney who seems to have developed a specific dislike of Klopp and/or Liverpool. Liverpool have a statistically significant drop in their win percentage over the last 6 years when Tierney is involved in their games.
https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/detailed-analysis-the-alarming-abnormal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incredible read. Damning.
Page 1 of 1