All will be forgotten lads, after we thrash the Scots again this coming Tuesday in the "friendly" !
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shame TAA bottled England duty again as it would have been good to see him try stepping into CM allowing others to move forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottled it? He's injured you twonk
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The bottomline is the team Southgate picked had more than enough to beat Ukraine. Kane, Saka, Bellingham and Maddison should have had more than enough creativity and firepower between them, plus Foden and Rashford also came in.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont really care being a scot but have to ask. Why do you think that? These past managers have had fantastic quality for 2 decades now.
People keep mentioning southgates easy draws but ffs you still need to win them. Something some of your past teams have failed to do. You were put out a tournament by iceland not that long ago. Another occassion you didnt even qualify for the euros. A world cup you failed to get out a group with uruguay and costa rica in it.
Southgates got yous breezing through qualifiers everytime and has taken yous to a final and a semi final. The football aint great but yous are more competitive than youve ever been in my lifetime.
Careful what you wish for I think.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
comment by ®åρtor ✡ (U1071)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Amadou Bakayoko (U1734)
posted 15 minutes ago
Is it really fair that Germany get to host the euros when they did so as recently as 1988? England never get to host tournaments. Apart from the last euros, and the next euros. It is completely unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought this as well but what are UEFA to do when you only have two nations coming forward that want to host it? (Germany and Turkey)
Germany won it by a landslide as well.
England really need to host the World Cup but I can’t see when that is going to come.
2026 is in North America and 2030 is looking likely to be Morocco Spain and Portugal. 34 will probably be in S America or Asia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the annoying thing about Middle Eastern oil money. They can buy English domestic football so you see the advantages there but they have no interest in the England national team so buy world cups for their own countries. At the expense of England as we saw with Qatar. You better just hope that they keep funding your domestic football now that they look to be trying to go it themselves. Maybe not long before they stop funding you as it conflicts with their interests. Then the PL will lose the top managers and foreign players which currently massively help the English national team players. They will be back to being coached by Steve Bruce and learning from David Batty.
Unless they move to Saudi to be coached by the top managers and play with the best players. Which they will.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont really care being a scot but have to ask. Why do you think that? These past managers have had fantastic quality for 2 decades now.
People keep mentioning southgates easy draws but ffs you still need to win them. Something some of your past teams have failed to do. You were put out a tournament by iceland not that long ago. Another occassion you didnt even qualify for the euros. A world cup you failed to get out a group with uruguay and costa rica in it.
Southgates got yous breezing through qualifiers everytime and has taken yous to a final and a semi final. The football aint great but yous are more competitive than youve ever been in my lifetime.
Careful what you wish for I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Southgate has had things easier and came in at a good time when the Golden Generation had dispersed and new fresher talent was emerging. The GG was full of quality as we know but they probably didn't perform as they should have in an England shirt and it would have taken a strong minded manager to play the team in such a way you'd get the best out of them i.e. the Lampard/Gerrard midfield. Let's be honest, if Southgate was managing back then he'd be guilty of making the same mistakes, playing the 2 of them side by side, using one or both as defensive midfielders even.
Also in that era we always used to get plagued by injuries to big players. Not only did we keep meeting the top teams prior to the semis but a key player would get injured before a tournament or during it - Owen (2002), Rooney (2004). Aside from all the exceptionally kind draws Southgate has experienced, what about all the lack of injuries? It doesn't get talked about enough how fortunate he's been in that respect as well.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
England need to bring in a proven English manager not some guy who has never won anything. Get an English manager who has won either the PL or Champions League. How hard could that be? The PL has been going for 30 years now. Surely one of the English managers that have won it will want to have a shot at the England job and bring their domestic success to the national team?
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane the 30 goal midfielder
Foden is too powderpuff in CM hence why Pep never plays him there.
Shame TAA bottled England duty again as it would have been good to see him try stepping into CM allowing others to move forward.
For me Southgate priorities possession over actual attacking intent. The team packed with ballers but no one truly direct or able to run at players bar Saka.
Phillips is a fool for staying at City. He won't make the Euros next year if he doesn't play and we had to draft Horrenderson in as we lack in CM areas.
We are as good as qualified. We need to start to see the likes of Maguire Hendo phased out and younger players given some games to stake their claim.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you read the post it pretty clearly says DONT play 2 DM. Rice alone with 2 AM in front is enough thus allowing Kane to play upfront rather than dropping into midfield.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as if Southgate selected two players to take pens who hadn't kicked a ball all match.
I hope Southgate bloods plentyof young players against the Scots.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hope Southgate bloods plentyof young players against the Scots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully not so we can steal them and turn them into decent players
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big international teams is only relevant when factoring form and quality. Else, Southgate should be a legend for knocking out Germany. If England could really win the title back then with more luck, then the teams they lost to should have been beatable. I'd have expected England to lose to France or Brazil in '98, but they should have been beating Argentina. They should have been able to get out of the Euro 2000 groups - not losing to Romania. They should have been able to beat 10-man Brazil in 2002, not bow out limply with barely a chance created. They should have been able to beat Portugal in 2004 (who lost to Greece) or 2006 (who lost their next round to France). It's not like England were losing to tournament favorites in these tournaments, other than Brazil in 2002 (and that's on reputation, cos Brazil were a shambles heading into that World Cup).
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big international teams is only relevant when factoring form and quality. Else, Southgate should be a legend for knocking out Germany. If England could really win the title back then with more luck, then the teams they lost to should have been beatable. I'd have expected England to lose to France or Brazil in '98, but they should have been beating Argentina. They should have been able to get out of the Euro 2000 groups - not losing to Romania. They should have been able to beat 10-man Brazil in 2002, not bow out limply with barely a chance created. They should have been able to beat Portugal in 2004 (who lost to Greece) or 2006 (who lost their next round to France). It's not like England were losing to tournament favorites in these tournaments, other than Brazil in 2002 (and that's on reputation, cos Brazil were a shambles heading into that World Cup).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well England were down to 10 themselves against Argentina, and if I remember they had a goal disallowed that would have won them the game, and the same happened in Euro 2004 too. Both could have gone for us on different days. That's what I mean about that extra luck aside from draws.
I never even mentioned Keegan from 2000 to be fair and some of those tournaments we should have done better, but you cannot deny Southgate has had more fortune than most. Look at 2018, any really good team we played we lost to, but we still made the semis. His record against these top teams is actually awful throughout his England management. I forget what the stat is now.
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 6 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 8 hours, 30 minutes ago
England fans are the most entitled fans on the (flat) earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From a United.
“Ooooh we’re being held back by the owners despite spending more than any other club in world football!”
Daft cvnts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact you think this is actually a retort that was worthy of posting shows how monumentally stupid you are. Congratulations.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or maybe it shouldn’t have gotten to that stage….
Be nice if when he’s done at city Pep would show some gratitude to English football by taking charge for 4 years just so we can win a euros and world cup
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Should Southgate be sacked?
Page 3 of 5
posted on 10/9/23
All will be forgotten lads, after we thrash the Scots again this coming Tuesday in the "friendly" !
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shame TAA bottled England duty again as it would have been good to see him try stepping into CM allowing others to move forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottled it? He's injured you twonk
posted on 10/9/23
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
posted on 10/9/23
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/9/23
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The bottomline is the team Southgate picked had more than enough to beat Ukraine. Kane, Saka, Bellingham and Maddison should have had more than enough creativity and firepower between them, plus Foden and Rashford also came in.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont really care being a scot but have to ask. Why do you think that? These past managers have had fantastic quality for 2 decades now.
People keep mentioning southgates easy draws but ffs you still need to win them. Something some of your past teams have failed to do. You were put out a tournament by iceland not that long ago. Another occassion you didnt even qualify for the euros. A world cup you failed to get out a group with uruguay and costa rica in it.
Southgates got yous breezing through qualifiers everytime and has taken yous to a final and a semi final. The football aint great but yous are more competitive than youve ever been in my lifetime.
Careful what you wish for I think.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by ®åρtor ✡ (U1071)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Amadou Bakayoko (U1734)
posted 15 minutes ago
Is it really fair that Germany get to host the euros when they did so as recently as 1988? England never get to host tournaments. Apart from the last euros, and the next euros. It is completely unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought this as well but what are UEFA to do when you only have two nations coming forward that want to host it? (Germany and Turkey)
Germany won it by a landslide as well.
England really need to host the World Cup but I can’t see when that is going to come.
2026 is in North America and 2030 is looking likely to be Morocco Spain and Portugal. 34 will probably be in S America or Asia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the annoying thing about Middle Eastern oil money. They can buy English domestic football so you see the advantages there but they have no interest in the England national team so buy world cups for their own countries. At the expense of England as we saw with Qatar. You better just hope that they keep funding your domestic football now that they look to be trying to go it themselves. Maybe not long before they stop funding you as it conflicts with their interests. Then the PL will lose the top managers and foreign players which currently massively help the English national team players. They will be back to being coached by Steve Bruce and learning from David Batty.
Unless they move to Saudi to be coached by the top managers and play with the best players. Which they will.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEAAAUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont really care being a scot but have to ask. Why do you think that? These past managers have had fantastic quality for 2 decades now.
People keep mentioning southgates easy draws but ffs you still need to win them. Something some of your past teams have failed to do. You were put out a tournament by iceland not that long ago. Another occassion you didnt even qualify for the euros. A world cup you failed to get out a group with uruguay and costa rica in it.
Southgates got yous breezing through qualifiers everytime and has taken yous to a final and a semi final. The football aint great but yous are more competitive than youve ever been in my lifetime.
Careful what you wish for I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Southgate has had things easier and came in at a good time when the Golden Generation had dispersed and new fresher talent was emerging. The GG was full of quality as we know but they probably didn't perform as they should have in an England shirt and it would have taken a strong minded manager to play the team in such a way you'd get the best out of them i.e. the Lampard/Gerrard midfield. Let's be honest, if Southgate was managing back then he'd be guilty of making the same mistakes, playing the 2 of them side by side, using one or both as defensive midfielders even.
Also in that era we always used to get plagued by injuries to big players. Not only did we keep meeting the top teams prior to the semis but a key player would get injured before a tournament or during it - Owen (2002), Rooney (2004). Aside from all the exceptionally kind draws Southgate has experienced, what about all the lack of injuries? It doesn't get talked about enough how fortunate he's been in that respect as well.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
posted on 10/9/23
England need to bring in a proven English manager not some guy who has never won anything. Get an English manager who has won either the PL or Champions League. How hard could that be? The PL has been going for 30 years now. Surely one of the English managers that have won it will want to have a shot at the England job and bring their domestic success to the national team?
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by bomdia (U13941)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
Yeah they are. Especially against weaker sides. You don't need Rice and a plodder like Henderson against Ukraine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%. 2 Defensive minded midfielders against Ukraine? Did he think they had morphed into France or Argentina? Rice on his own would have been enough which would have allowed a creative player such as Foden to play and Kane to stay up front rather than having to do what he did at Spurs and play in midfield because of the awful play there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane the 30 goal midfielder
Foden is too powderpuff in CM hence why Pep never plays him there.
Shame TAA bottled England duty again as it would have been good to see him try stepping into CM allowing others to move forward.
For me Southgate priorities possession over actual attacking intent. The team packed with ballers but no one truly direct or able to run at players bar Saka.
Phillips is a fool for staying at City. He won't make the Euros next year if he doesn't play and we had to draft Horrenderson in as we lack in CM areas.
We are as good as qualified. We need to start to see the likes of Maguire Hendo phased out and younger players given some games to stake their claim.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you read the post it pretty clearly says DONT play 2 DM. Rice alone with 2 AM in front is enough thus allowing Kane to play upfront rather than dropping into midfield.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
posted on 10/9/23
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as if Southgate selected two players to take pens who hadn't kicked a ball all match.
posted on 10/9/23
I hope Southgate bloods plentyof young players against the Scots.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 minutes ago
I hope Southgate bloods plentyof young players against the Scots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully not so we can steal them and turn them into decent players
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big international teams is only relevant when factoring form and quality. Else, Southgate should be a legend for knocking out Germany. If England could really win the title back then with more luck, then the teams they lost to should have been beatable. I'd have expected England to lose to France or Brazil in '98, but they should have been beating Argentina. They should have been able to get out of the Euro 2000 groups - not losing to Romania. They should have been able to beat 10-man Brazil in 2002, not bow out limply with barely a chance created. They should have been able to beat Portugal in 2004 (who lost to Greece) or 2006 (who lost their next round to France). It's not like England were losing to tournament favorites in these tournaments, other than Brazil in 2002 (and that's on reputation, cos Brazil were a shambles heading into that World Cup).
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes. Southgate has already had his chances to win something. Two generous draws and a home tournament may never be surpassed as a better opportunity to win something and it was squandered by poor tactics right when it mattered most. And we're supposed to believe he can still deliver something?
I actually think past England managers would have won something around this generation with the fortune and quality we've had at our disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which past England managers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven, Hoddle, hell maybe even Hodgson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pure unfounded conjecture, not based on anything in the England records of any of those manager. Between the 3 of them, none ever passed a tournament QF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None had the generous draws/home tournament that Southgate had either, or other luck such as injuries, decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which generous draws. England met Argentina in the 2nd round because they lost to Romania in the groups. And Argentina themselves weren't exactly in a golden era. A 3rd of their squad were Argentine league plodders. They were eliminated in the groups of Euro 2000 (losing again to Romania). England lost to 10-man Brazil in 2002. Portugal were eminently beatable by any serious title contenders in 2004 and 2006 and they owned England twice. Has nothing to do with luck of the draw. England were just sheite, and there is no basis to claim those managers would have won titles with Southgate's team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, they are part of that group considered the big international teams, where no matter what their form is like, can still be dangerous in a tournament.
If it's nothing to do with the luck of the draw, how come Southgate has always gone out to one of these big teams when he's met them in a KO round? Croatia, France, Italy. Germany is the exception and we could apply what you said about Argentina to them in that they're shiiite currently, although it also helps having home advantage. There's a reason the only finals we've ever made in our international history have been when the tournaments were based on home soil.
In 2002 Beckham was injured before the tournament, in 2006 it was the same with Rooney, in 2004 we had a genuine chance to win something but Rooney who was our star player also got injured during to Portugal game. It's funny how this doesn't tend to happen with Southgate's sides. Never any major injuries the way it used to be a regular thing back then pre-tournaments.
I know he gets maligned by fans but I think Pickford has been our best keeper this millennium and helped us get through to the semis in 2018. If we had him back during the GG we'd have got a lot further, as all our keepers since peak Seaman have been average to shiiite and have at times single-handedly cost us in big games, while being useless at pen shoot outs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big international teams is only relevant when factoring form and quality. Else, Southgate should be a legend for knocking out Germany. If England could really win the title back then with more luck, then the teams they lost to should have been beatable. I'd have expected England to lose to France or Brazil in '98, but they should have been beating Argentina. They should have been able to get out of the Euro 2000 groups - not losing to Romania. They should have been able to beat 10-man Brazil in 2002, not bow out limply with barely a chance created. They should have been able to beat Portugal in 2004 (who lost to Greece) or 2006 (who lost their next round to France). It's not like England were losing to tournament favorites in these tournaments, other than Brazil in 2002 (and that's on reputation, cos Brazil were a shambles heading into that World Cup).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well England were down to 10 themselves against Argentina, and if I remember they had a goal disallowed that would have won them the game, and the same happened in Euro 2004 too. Both could have gone for us on different days. That's what I mean about that extra luck aside from draws.
I never even mentioned Keegan from 2000 to be fair and some of those tournaments we should have done better, but you cannot deny Southgate has had more fortune than most. Look at 2018, any really good team we played we lost to, but we still made the semis. His record against these top teams is actually awful throughout his England management. I forget what the stat is now.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 6 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 8 hours, 30 minutes ago
England fans are the most entitled fans on the (flat) earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From a United.
“Ooooh we’re being held back by the owners despite spending more than any other club in world football!”
Daft cvnts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact you think this is actually a retort that was worthy of posting shows how monumentally stupid you are. Congratulations.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Good point, we've gone out of the last 2 major tournaments due to poor penalty taking, not because of poor team selection.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or maybe it shouldn’t have gotten to that stage….
posted on 10/9/23
Be nice if when he’s done at city Pep would show some gratitude to English football by taking charge for 4 years just so we can win a euros and world cup
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