He seems to have developed more delusion, depressive episodes, victim mentality, fear or anxiety of failure, avoidance of responsibility, apathy, increased absenteeism, withdrawal after he joined United. He definitely needs to be sent to a psychiatrist.
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, it's true that you get a bit more space in the Bundesliga, and there's less tactical variety, so if you crack the code you get to feast. But most of our major Bundesliga flops I can think of are about United misprofiling players or not having a clear plan how to use them.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 14 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The pressure of playing for the name. Happens to loads of players.
If he'd gone to a lesser club like Spurs, Newcastle or Arsenal he may well of succeeded. Sports psychology is there for a reason these days. Some players react, some don't. If they don't, ship them out or they will affect the rest of the club.
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, it's true that you get a bit more space in the Bundesliga, and there's less tactical variety, so if you crack the code you get to feast. But most of our major Bundesliga flops I can think of are about United misprofiling players or not having a clear plan how to use them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just thinking of who these players are/were:
- Hargreaves (good player ruined by injuries)
- Kagawa (talented player who's game time was curtailed by the opportunistic signing of RvP. Did ok for us and provided some fantastic moments but didn't live up to the hype)
- Bastian (past his best years but was decent when fit)
- Sancho (no need to add anything here!)
- Mkhitaryan (never really adjusted to United or PL for us or Arsenal and probably was punching above his weight in Germany)
I'd say only maybe Mkhi failed to really adapt to the PL. Kagawa seemed well adapted but was underuse and a victim of the Moyes era. Hargreaves & Bastian didn't work out for other reasons. Sancho seems to be his own worst enemy.
More than anything I think we've been a bit unlucky with those players.
I think Hojlund will take to it like a fish to water.
Sadly you cannot make your own character, and I don't think Sancho will.
Imagine if we got a South American from the Bundesliga?!
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, he’s never looked all that committed to be fair
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 52 minutes ago
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Podolski, Marin, Havertz, Bailey, Pulisic, Werner, Haller, Keita, Kagawa, Mkhi.
It isn’t uncommon for players who flourish in Germany to struggle here. You’re right, it’s ultimately about the player, some will do better in the PL than expected and others not so well. I tend not to get over excited by stats in that league now though.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not sure that he knew that playing In the PL meant that he had to step up a level from where he came from. Especially being the generational talent that people in the UK told him he was.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 52 minutes ago
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Podolski, Marin, Havertz, Bailey, Pulisic, Werner, Haller, Keita, Kagawa, Mkhi.
It isn’t uncommon for players who flourish in Germany to struggle here. You’re right, it’s ultimately about the player, some will do better in the PL than expected and others not so well. I tend not to get over excited by stats in that league now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could say the same about players from just about any league. The PL is tough. Lots of players fail to step up.
By the way, Podolski's long Bundesliga career before and after Arsenal wasn't prolific. I'm not sure his Arsenal years were any less successful than his time at Bayern.
I was about to write that Podolski did alright at Arsenal, at least in terms of his output, which stands alongside any of this most prolific seasons.
Marin just obviously wasn't that good, and there was nothing spectacular about his numbers before moving to Chelsea and it's not as though he torn it up in any other the weaker leagues he played in afterwards.
Havertz... I'm not a fan personally but he's alright.
Leon Bailey is a very good player who's issues have mostly been injury related rather than ability. He seems to produce whenever he can actually keep himself on the pitch.
Similar story with Pulisic. Excellent player who struggled to stay fit. Was more than good enough to command a position in the team of a CL-level team.
Werner... Weird one. Rarely seen someone so good at terrorising defences with such pace and movement but be completely hilarious at finishing.
Haller & Keita... Not much to say really. The former didn't seem to be able to kick on in the PL and the latter suffered so many injuries that he never seemed to get started. Clearly talented though.
You could do this for any set of players from any league though.
The Bundesliga isn't a great league overall. Bayern absolutely walk it most seasons with a couple others like Dortmund, RB Leipzig etc being decent too at times but the quality isn't great beyond that.
At the moment, Bayern aren't even that great on paper any more, still pretty good though obviously. They play less games per season and generally have it easier due to the opposition level in the league so you'd expect them to be fresher for European competition too and their record is good in fairness.
True or false, it sounds like its United putting these claims out there. We know they run a tight PR machine.
Where have these allegations in the OP come from ?
Many players have struggled coming to United.
There are also the reports of 'mental health' struggles.
The squad is unbalanced.
It's it like he has joined a great footballing side amd just stunk the place out.
Yes, there might be attitude issues, but there are many others issues we should consider when writing him off as a bad apple.
A watch might solve 90 percent of his problems.
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
Sancho isn't the first and won't be the last. There's something wrong at United because star player after star player keep flopping at Old Trafford.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I admire your fortitude Boris !
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 7 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who knew we had so many cabbies?
Sign in if you want to comment
My opinion on the Sancho situation
Page 2 of 3
posted on 10/9/23
He seems to have developed more delusion, depressive episodes, victim mentality, fear or anxiety of failure, avoidance of responsibility, apathy, increased absenteeism, withdrawal after he joined United. He definitely needs to be sent to a psychiatrist.
posted on 10/9/23
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
posted on 10/9/23
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, it's true that you get a bit more space in the Bundesliga, and there's less tactical variety, so if you crack the code you get to feast. But most of our major Bundesliga flops I can think of are about United misprofiling players or not having a clear plan how to use them.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 14 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The pressure of playing for the name. Happens to loads of players.
If he'd gone to a lesser club like Spurs, Newcastle or Arsenal he may well of succeeded. Sports psychology is there for a reason these days. Some players react, some don't. If they don't, ship them out or they will affect the rest of the club.
posted on 10/9/23
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
The ‘Bundesliga is rubbish’ is so tiresome. City had 4 plays from the Bundesliga start their CL final. The issue is identifying the right players (whichever league they come from) which we are useless at.
Sancho worked at Dortmund because as well as seemingly being happy there and maybe not being overwhelmed the team played to his strengths. He’s obviously hugely gifted but we’re not seeing at United for a number of reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, it's true that you get a bit more space in the Bundesliga, and there's less tactical variety, so if you crack the code you get to feast. But most of our major Bundesliga flops I can think of are about United misprofiling players or not having a clear plan how to use them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just thinking of who these players are/were:
- Hargreaves (good player ruined by injuries)
- Kagawa (talented player who's game time was curtailed by the opportunistic signing of RvP. Did ok for us and provided some fantastic moments but didn't live up to the hype)
- Bastian (past his best years but was decent when fit)
- Sancho (no need to add anything here!)
- Mkhitaryan (never really adjusted to United or PL for us or Arsenal and probably was punching above his weight in Germany)
I'd say only maybe Mkhi failed to really adapt to the PL. Kagawa seemed well adapted but was underuse and a victim of the Moyes era. Hargreaves & Bastian didn't work out for other reasons. Sancho seems to be his own worst enemy.
More than anything I think we've been a bit unlucky with those players.
posted on 10/9/23
I think Hojlund will take to it like a fish to water.
Sadly you cannot make your own character, and I don't think Sancho will.
posted on 10/9/23
Imagine if we got a South American from the Bundesliga?!
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, he’s never looked all that committed to be fair
posted on 10/9/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 52 minutes ago
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Podolski, Marin, Havertz, Bailey, Pulisic, Werner, Haller, Keita, Kagawa, Mkhi.
It isn’t uncommon for players who flourish in Germany to struggle here. You’re right, it’s ultimately about the player, some will do better in the PL than expected and others not so well. I tend not to get over excited by stats in that league now though.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
I’m not sure he ever wanted to come to OT to be honest.
—
M what makes you say that busby?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never looked like he wanted to be here, seems a shadow of himself since day 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not sure that he knew that playing In the PL meant that he had to step up a level from where he came from. Especially being the generational talent that people in the UK told him he was.
posted on 10/9/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 52 minutes ago
I've also never subscribed to the thesis about the Bundesliga. At the the end of the day, all of the great German players we've ever seen began playing in the Bundesliga, many of them playing the majority of their careers there for Bayern, Dortmund etc, winning/competing excellently in the CL and seeing their national team progress far in tournaments.
My own view is that the country is typically more important than the league: signing players from countries that typically produce excellent players is the most important thing. Holland for instance consistently produces excellent players, but the Eredivisie is obviously not the strongest league.
Ultimately it comes down to the player. Sancho is very gifted, but he almost always looks like he's playing with the handbrake on and the questions marks around his mentality and attitude are more likely to be the determining factor in this progression than anything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Podolski, Marin, Havertz, Bailey, Pulisic, Werner, Haller, Keita, Kagawa, Mkhi.
It isn’t uncommon for players who flourish in Germany to struggle here. You’re right, it’s ultimately about the player, some will do better in the PL than expected and others not so well. I tend not to get over excited by stats in that league now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could say the same about players from just about any league. The PL is tough. Lots of players fail to step up.
By the way, Podolski's long Bundesliga career before and after Arsenal wasn't prolific. I'm not sure his Arsenal years were any less successful than his time at Bayern.
posted on 11/9/23
I was about to write that Podolski did alright at Arsenal, at least in terms of his output, which stands alongside any of this most prolific seasons.
Marin just obviously wasn't that good, and there was nothing spectacular about his numbers before moving to Chelsea and it's not as though he torn it up in any other the weaker leagues he played in afterwards.
Havertz... I'm not a fan personally but he's alright.
Leon Bailey is a very good player who's issues have mostly been injury related rather than ability. He seems to produce whenever he can actually keep himself on the pitch.
Similar story with Pulisic. Excellent player who struggled to stay fit. Was more than good enough to command a position in the team of a CL-level team.
Werner... Weird one. Rarely seen someone so good at terrorising defences with such pace and movement but be completely hilarious at finishing.
Haller & Keita... Not much to say really. The former didn't seem to be able to kick on in the PL and the latter suffered so many injuries that he never seemed to get started. Clearly talented though.
You could do this for any set of players from any league though.
posted on 11/9/23
The Bundesliga isn't a great league overall. Bayern absolutely walk it most seasons with a couple others like Dortmund, RB Leipzig etc being decent too at times but the quality isn't great beyond that.
At the moment, Bayern aren't even that great on paper any more, still pretty good though obviously. They play less games per season and generally have it easier due to the opposition level in the league so you'd expect them to be fresher for European competition too and their record is good in fairness.
posted on 11/9/23
True or false, it sounds like its United putting these claims out there. We know they run a tight PR machine.
posted on 11/9/23
Where have these allegations in the OP come from ?
posted on 11/9/23
Many players have struggled coming to United.
There are also the reports of 'mental health' struggles.
The squad is unbalanced.
It's it like he has joined a great footballing side amd just stunk the place out.
Yes, there might be attitude issues, but there are many others issues we should consider when writing him off as a bad apple.
posted on 11/9/23
A watch might solve 90 percent of his problems.
posted on 11/9/23
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
posted on 11/9/23
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
posted on 11/9/23
Sancho isn't the first and won't be the last. There's something wrong at United because star player after star player keep flopping at Old Trafford.
posted on 11/9/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I admire your fortitude Boris !
posted on 11/9/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 7 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by H von H. (U16981)
posted 14 minutes ago
You have to admit though, that Manchester can be a depressing place at the best of times !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not for most of us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who knew we had so many cabbies?
Page 2 of 3