Not exposing the PGMOL and allowing them to continue as they are is worse than anything that can come from exposing them IMO. PGMOL is a closed shop and we don't know sheet. Officiating games isn't espionage, everything can be in the open.
This is everyone's chance to settle this once and for all. Put club bias aside, support Liverpool so we can really see what's going on.
the jones red pitch side replay was definitely wrong, against the var rules, and may well have been the var ref attempting to unfairly influence the on-field refs decision..
the offside decision.. no.. and not them being greedy with their power.. it was too obviously onside for them to even attempt to get away with deliberately.. it was just a spectacular level of incompetence..
however, what the audio may reveal, is whether or not they then tried to conceal the mistake, or legitimise the outcome..
yes. pgmol have said var drew the lines as usual, and told the on-field ref about the mistake, but too late.. but we've not seen or heard any proof of either of those..
whatever happened... this needs to be made transparent.. and it needs to be fixed..
this was between two teams fighting for at least top4, possibly the title.. with prize money, CL money, and sponsorship money at stake.... this could easily be worth at least £50M to one team, and cost £50M to the other..
does anyone really think owners from a country as litigious as america are not going to take action over a blatant cock-up that could cost them £50M?
What happens next is that Howard Webb can't get away with a sorry phone call. That may have worked with other clubs but we are built different. With the refs we are problem and we might now get favourable decisions because we have kept there incompetence as headline news.
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 9 minutes ago
What happens next is that Howard Webb can't get away with a sorry phone call. That may have worked with other clubs but we are built different. With the refs we are problem and we might now get favourable decisions because we have kept there incompetence as headline news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you "built different"? Whatba self entitlement comment.
And yes, you will get favourable decisions. You don't make that comment giving 2 sheets about the opponent on the receiving end.
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but why is it the single worst one? The process around the goal being disallowed is unique, but the end result was that no goal was awarded.
We've seen apologies given for lines being drawn against the wrong defender. The result of that meaning a goal was wrongly chalked off. It's exactly the same outcome just a different way to get there. A unique way.
This isn't the worst VAR of all time. It's no different to any other factually incorrect decision.
What exactly do you guys want/expect from the outcome to all of this?
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but why is it the single worst one? The process around the goal being disallowed is unique, but the end result was that no goal was awarded.
We've seen apologies given for lines being drawn against the wrong defender. The result of that meaning a goal was wrongly chalked off. It's exactly the same outcome just a different way to get there. A unique way.
This isn't the worst VAR of all time. It's no different to any other factually incorrect decision.
What exactly do you guys want/expect from the outcome to all of this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say it’s fairly obvious what they want - to make enough noise that future decisions are influenced in their favour by way of some sort of unspoken compensation, at which point we won’t hear a peep out of them about ‘sporting integrity’ - just as we haven’t when things have swung in their favour in the past. Honestly, facking hypocrites trying to set themselves up as the moral arbiters of the sport, it’s cringeworthy.
I’m not sure it was down to club bias but I think there could be a reason they decided not to give the goal she the level of supposed human error is this bad.
Either way the club deserves to hear the audio to eliminate any doubt.
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
Yea agree with both your points above. Be interesting to see how this develops RE this audio.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah this. It’s sad that people would rather just have a pop at Liverpool fans than rather see the rock bottom standard of officiating change for the better long term.
Anyway let them enjoy it if that’s the level of their intelligence is, I’ll remember it for the next time a decision goes against them and they are complaining about it on here.
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Del Big Ange Postecoglou (U22000)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair this season we’ve also had Mac Allister wrongly sent off, VVD sent over for a borderline red card (probably right given but no benefit of the doubt again), Jones borderline red given but that’s in addition to every 50:50 decision going against us this season seemingly in every game.
Trent throws the ball away? Yellow card. Opposition player does it? Nothing.
Liverpool player wants a card for an opposition player? They get carded themselves, doesn’t seem to happen to the opposing player.
I’ve seen players make 4/5 fouls before being given a caution in Liverpool games this season in the PL.
Not saying that there is any bias but after the season we’ve had so far where I think only one decision has gone our way and everything else against us you can’t help but wonder.
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Del Big Ange Postecoglou (U22000)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair this season we’ve also had Mac Allister wrongly sent off, VVD sent over for a borderline red card (probably right given but no benefit of the doubt again), Jones borderline red given but that’s in addition to every 50:50 decision going against us this season seemingly in every game.
Trent throws the ball away? Yellow card. Opposition player does it? Nothing.
Liverpool player wants a card for an opposition player? They get carded themselves, doesn’t seem to happen to the opposing player.
I’ve seen players make 4/5 fouls before being given a caution in Liverpool games this season in the PL.
Not saying that there is any bias but after the season we’ve had so far where I think only one decision has gone our way and everything else against us you can’t help but wonder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's fair to question the consistency to be honest. Yea it probably feels like it's going against you alot at the moment and that's due to lack of consistency. That's not right and it needs to be addressed. I don't believe it's due to bias and wanting to "punish" Liverpool more than others but I get it may feel like that at times.
Let it go and friggin move onto Brighton..
Spurs are decent , nothing special...and they got a fluke win ....but what's done is done
I think when things go against you they tend to spectacularly, like remember the darren bent beach ball goal I still can't believe the ref and lino who clearly saw it didn't rule it out.
Also , Webb was quick to release the virgl audio so let's hope they do the same here. They need to sort some stuff out with VAR
But tbh I am a bit bored of it now and can't wait for out next game on Thursday so we can move on from this!
what happens next is lfc are hung out to dry by all the cheap nasty so and sos like neville.
I note no arsenal fans are swinging in here says arteta said he'd only be satisfied with his 2 points back that var robbed him off (their words) that was last season
lfc are using levers that others are calling dangerous. we are in fact forcing them to have some sort of transparent review. thst is all.
they can have it at jones's red card appeal in front of an independent body if they like and we will ask where we're they 2 days before etc.
if they publish the tapes and do a proper fair review with proper recommendations then this all goes away.
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well in the same game salah git booked for was it dissent or kicking the ball away udogie already on ayellow waved the pretend card for a booking and dodnt get booked. Like I said, when it goes against your club it usually happens in bucket loads.
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well in the same game salah git booked for was it dissent or kicking the ball away udogie already on ayellow waved the pretend card for a booking and dodnt get booked. Like I said, when it goes against your club it usually happens in bucket loads.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That "foul" from Salah by the way was a joke. We got lucky with that one too.
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah this. It’s sad that people would rather just have a pop at Liverpool fans than rather see the rock bottom standard of officiating change for the better long term.
Anyway let them enjoy it if that’s the level of their intelligence is, I’ll remember it for the next time a decision goes against them and they are complaining about it on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is not the point being made. The point is that putting oneself on a pedestal as some sort of standard bearer only holds water if you apply the same level of consistency as you demand from the refs. Positioning yourselves as the moral arbiters of sporting integrity is all well and good when you feel personally affronted, but when it goes for in your favour you can no longer tell opposition managers to “just think about other things” as Klopp did to Ryan Mason last season after Jota kicked Skipp in the head - otherwise it becomes nothing more than self serving hypocrisy.
Except it's not hypocritical to change your opinion when faced with new information. This has been the straw that broke the camels back in terms of trust in VAR for Liverpool, that's not hypocritical, that's just deciding you can no longer put it up with it.
Now if next weekend we get a jammy decision and Klopp comes out saying VAR is incredible and Brighton can't moan, then yes that would be hypocritical.
Sign in if you want to comment
What happens next???
Page 1 of 3
posted on 3/10/23
Not exposing the PGMOL and allowing them to continue as they are is worse than anything that can come from exposing them IMO. PGMOL is a closed shop and we don't know sheet. Officiating games isn't espionage, everything can be in the open.
This is everyone's chance to settle this once and for all. Put club bias aside, support Liverpool so we can really see what's going on.
posted on 3/10/23
the jones red pitch side replay was definitely wrong, against the var rules, and may well have been the var ref attempting to unfairly influence the on-field refs decision..
the offside decision.. no.. and not them being greedy with their power.. it was too obviously onside for them to even attempt to get away with deliberately.. it was just a spectacular level of incompetence..
however, what the audio may reveal, is whether or not they then tried to conceal the mistake, or legitimise the outcome..
yes. pgmol have said var drew the lines as usual, and told the on-field ref about the mistake, but too late.. but we've not seen or heard any proof of either of those..
whatever happened... this needs to be made transparent.. and it needs to be fixed..
this was between two teams fighting for at least top4, possibly the title.. with prize money, CL money, and sponsorship money at stake.... this could easily be worth at least £50M to one team, and cost £50M to the other..
does anyone really think owners from a country as litigious as america are not going to take action over a blatant cock-up that could cost them £50M?
posted on 3/10/23
What happens next is that Howard Webb can't get away with a sorry phone call. That may have worked with other clubs but we are built different. With the refs we are problem and we might now get favourable decisions because we have kept there incompetence as headline news.
posted on 3/10/23
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 9 minutes ago
What happens next is that Howard Webb can't get away with a sorry phone call. That may have worked with other clubs but we are built different. With the refs we are problem and we might now get favourable decisions because we have kept there incompetence as headline news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you "built different"? Whatba self entitlement comment.
And yes, you will get favourable decisions. You don't make that comment giving 2 sheets about the opponent on the receiving end.
posted on 3/10/23
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but why is it the single worst one? The process around the goal being disallowed is unique, but the end result was that no goal was awarded.
We've seen apologies given for lines being drawn against the wrong defender. The result of that meaning a goal was wrongly chalked off. It's exactly the same outcome just a different way to get there. A unique way.
This isn't the worst VAR of all time. It's no different to any other factually incorrect decision.
What exactly do you guys want/expect from the outcome to all of this?
posted on 3/10/23
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ChArliE Big Bananas (U14461)
posted 7 minutes ago
Oooooh everybody hates us it’s cowwupshun and oooooh not us we are built different we’re so bloody hard we are and we’ll prove it by piiisssing and moaning like menstrual girls til the end of time.
Honestly you lot are an feckin embarrassment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hate when I find myself agreeing with rival fans.
I think we should be making a bit hooha about the offside but so should other teams as this could be a turning point on VAR. It is clearly the single worst VAR error there has been and needs to be seized upon as an opportunity to make change.
The rest we can leave at the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but why is it the single worst one? The process around the goal being disallowed is unique, but the end result was that no goal was awarded.
We've seen apologies given for lines being drawn against the wrong defender. The result of that meaning a goal was wrongly chalked off. It's exactly the same outcome just a different way to get there. A unique way.
This isn't the worst VAR of all time. It's no different to any other factually incorrect decision.
What exactly do you guys want/expect from the outcome to all of this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say it’s fairly obvious what they want - to make enough noise that future decisions are influenced in their favour by way of some sort of unspoken compensation, at which point we won’t hear a peep out of them about ‘sporting integrity’ - just as we haven’t when things have swung in their favour in the past. Honestly, facking hypocrites trying to set themselves up as the moral arbiters of the sport, it’s cringeworthy.
posted on 3/10/23
I’m not sure it was down to club bias but I think there could be a reason they decided not to give the goal she the level of supposed human error is this bad.
Either way the club deserves to hear the audio to eliminate any doubt.
posted on 3/10/23
Seeing as the level*
posted on 3/10/23
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
posted on 3/10/23
Yea agree with both your points above. Be interesting to see how this develops RE this audio.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah this. It’s sad that people would rather just have a pop at Liverpool fans than rather see the rock bottom standard of officiating change for the better long term.
Anyway let them enjoy it if that’s the level of their intelligence is, I’ll remember it for the next time a decision goes against them and they are complaining about it on here.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
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posted on 3/10/23
comment by Del Big Ange Postecoglou (U22000)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
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To be fair this season we’ve also had Mac Allister wrongly sent off, VVD sent over for a borderline red card (probably right given but no benefit of the doubt again), Jones borderline red given but that’s in addition to every 50:50 decision going against us this season seemingly in every game.
Trent throws the ball away? Yellow card. Opposition player does it? Nothing.
Liverpool player wants a card for an opposition player? They get carded themselves, doesn’t seem to happen to the opposing player.
I’ve seen players make 4/5 fouls before being given a caution in Liverpool games this season in the PL.
Not saying that there is any bias but after the season we’ve had so far where I think only one decision has gone our way and everything else against us you can’t help but wonder.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Del Big Ange Postecoglou (U22000)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Honestly, I say this not on the wind up, but surely you don't believe it is down to bias? I find that quite an immature view. Yes the offside was a shocker and it was wrong, but you genuinely think it's because someone sat their purposely trying to ensure Liverpool were hard done by?
I think it was a mistake. A poor one at that, but it was a mistake. Why can't you accept that instead of coming up with conspiracy theories.
Adding the Jones red card to the debate to show bias against you is desperate IMO. I still cannot understand who anyone doesn't think that's a red. It was as stonewall red as you get IMO. But the point of that is that that one is open to interpretation. Just because that one doesn't fall your side doesn't mean you weight the decisions.
As I say, the offside is a shocker and no way can it be defended. But I genuinely don't get all this conspiracy stuff as if it's all because they didn't want Liverpool to score. It's crazy you even think that. Lessons should be learnt and I am sure they will.
That all said, I absolutely guarantee you that this will even out. I don't usually think that, but with all the coverage this has had, any debatle in game decision relaying to a Liverpool match in the foreseeable will very likely go your way. You will see its "evened out" (if that happens) yet won't give two hoots about the team on the receiving end.
I like Liverpool but I am shocked at the outrage on this and how the media have portrayed this. It's gone too far.
There have been factual errors, not debatle ones, countless times. Yet iv never seen a reaction like this. Why now?
It was a bad mistake. Let's not make this an anti Liverpool thing. Because it really isn't. Football fans are a different breed and IMO this has brought our the worst in some. It's exactly the reason you cant have live communication at matches like rugby and cricket. Those fans respect refs and don't have that partisan view to the same level. I think players and fans need to change behaviour just as much as refs getting things consistently right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair this season we’ve also had Mac Allister wrongly sent off, VVD sent over for a borderline red card (probably right given but no benefit of the doubt again), Jones borderline red given but that’s in addition to every 50:50 decision going against us this season seemingly in every game.
Trent throws the ball away? Yellow card. Opposition player does it? Nothing.
Liverpool player wants a card for an opposition player? They get carded themselves, doesn’t seem to happen to the opposing player.
I’ve seen players make 4/5 fouls before being given a caution in Liverpool games this season in the PL.
Not saying that there is any bias but after the season we’ve had so far where I think only one decision has gone our way and everything else against us you can’t help but wonder.
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I think it's fair to question the consistency to be honest. Yea it probably feels like it's going against you alot at the moment and that's due to lack of consistency. That's not right and it needs to be addressed. I don't believe it's due to bias and wanting to "punish" Liverpool more than others but I get it may feel like that at times.
posted on 3/10/23
Let it go and friggin move onto Brighton..
Spurs are decent , nothing special...and they got a fluke win ....but what's done is done
posted on 3/10/23
I think when things go against you they tend to spectacularly, like remember the darren bent beach ball goal I still can't believe the ref and lino who clearly saw it didn't rule it out.
Also , Webb was quick to release the virgl audio so let's hope they do the same here. They need to sort some stuff out with VAR
But tbh I am a bit bored of it now and can't wait for out next game on Thursday so we can move on from this!
posted on 3/10/23
what happens next is lfc are hung out to dry by all the cheap nasty so and sos like neville.
I note no arsenal fans are swinging in here says arteta said he'd only be satisfied with his 2 points back that var robbed him off (their words) that was last season
lfc are using levers that others are calling dangerous. we are in fact forcing them to have some sort of transparent review. thst is all.
they can have it at jones's red card appeal in front of an independent body if they like and we will ask where we're they 2 days before etc.
if they publish the tapes and do a proper fair review with proper recommendations then this all goes away.
posted on 3/10/23
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
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Well in the same game salah git booked for was it dissent or kicking the ball away udogie already on ayellow waved the pretend card for a booking and dodnt get booked. Like I said, when it goes against your club it usually happens in bucket loads.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by The Goofy One (U16087)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
The consistency is definitely annoying.
In both the Newcastle and Spurs game I've seen opposition players make the card gesture and not get a booking, which personally I don't want that to be a booking, but they implemented it as a rule and have already booked one of our players for doing it.
You can't decide to only enforce that rule sporadically.
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Well in the same game salah git booked for was it dissent or kicking the ball away udogie already on ayellow waved the pretend card for a booking and dodnt get booked. Like I said, when it goes against your club it usually happens in bucket loads.
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That "foul" from Salah by the way was a joke. We got lucky with that one too.
posted on 3/10/23
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
Or to make enough noise so that people actually care about getting things right in their job, which would benefit everyone, not just Liverpool. Surely some levels of consistent and continued incompetence stem from a lack of accountability and consequences leading to arrogance and negligence, not necessarily from trying to favour any specific team. In which case a kick up the backside is required.
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Yeah this. It’s sad that people would rather just have a pop at Liverpool fans than rather see the rock bottom standard of officiating change for the better long term.
Anyway let them enjoy it if that’s the level of their intelligence is, I’ll remember it for the next time a decision goes against them and they are complaining about it on here.
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That is not the point being made. The point is that putting oneself on a pedestal as some sort of standard bearer only holds water if you apply the same level of consistency as you demand from the refs. Positioning yourselves as the moral arbiters of sporting integrity is all well and good when you feel personally affronted, but when it goes for in your favour you can no longer tell opposition managers to “just think about other things” as Klopp did to Ryan Mason last season after Jota kicked Skipp in the head - otherwise it becomes nothing more than self serving hypocrisy.
posted on 3/10/23
Except it's not hypocritical to change your opinion when faced with new information. This has been the straw that broke the camels back in terms of trust in VAR for Liverpool, that's not hypocritical, that's just deciding you can no longer put it up with it.
Now if next weekend we get a jammy decision and Klopp comes out saying VAR is incredible and Brighton can't moan, then yes that would be hypocritical.
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