Yeh no excuse to keep playing the likes of Dier and Davies, when you have supposedly decent youngsters champing at the bit to be given a chance.
Spurs have conceeded six goals in one and a half gsmes since the return of Diercand Davies. Surely their time is up.
Poch was never afraid, I hope Ange goes for it at some point
Why are we, in 2023, still lining up with dier and Davies as our cb pairing? Every time those two names are on the starting 11 team sheet, it is a highlight of the absolute failure of the club.
Just play the kids. I would rather see them fail for the first time than dier and Davies fail for the 109th
Put hjolberg in that too. Sick of them all.
Dier is poverty but Davies gets a lot of unfair stick. I think he can still be a squad player.
Agreed tbh. At some point they need to be blooded
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
Yeh no excuse to keep playing the likes of Dier and Davies, when you have supposedly decent youngsters champing at the bit to be given a chance.
Spurs have conceeded six goals in one and a half gsmes since the return of Diercand Davies. Surely their time is up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's scary how much of a curse Davies and Dier are. Ange had to hook off Davies at half time and banished Dier from matchday squad for weeks. Why is he playing them? Surely this needs to stop.
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 10 hours, 17 minutes ago
Poch was never afraid, I hope Ange goes for it at some point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has to, I really don't think he has a choice until January.
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
Dier is poverty but Davies gets a lot of unfair stick. I think he can still be a squad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If by squad you mean 5th choice CB and 5th choice LB then I can support this.
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
Tbf to Ange he had Dorrington, Phillips and Donley on the bench against Wolves. The step up from U21's to senior football is huge.
The U21 team are winning every match in their league but when they faced Cambridge and Peterborough who are both league 1 teams, they lost.
It shows you the gulf. Phillips is the only one has been training consistently with the first team. Dorrington and Donley joined in later.
It all depends on how much Ange values his job if he wants to trust Eric Cancer. He has nothing to lose by playing Phillips over Eric.
Davies did well against Wolves and was one of our better players on the day.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 52 minutes ago
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried and tested like Sarr (20) Udogie (20), instead of tried and tested Davies & Hojbjerg
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
comment by LukaBrasi Ange-r management (U22178)
posted 41 minutes ago
He has nothing to lose by playing Phillips over Eric.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, this is the point. If it were a scenario of playing a youngster ahead of a first-teamer I'd say no point rushing it and potentially rocking the kid's confidence. But this is a scenario where Spurs are down to reserves who have consistently let the team down over a long period, so if anything it'd be silly not to try something new. Expecting Dier to suddenly become a consistently good CB, especially in Ange's system, is delusional. Philips might bomb but he might also be a revelation. We know Dier will be crap no matter what
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not think that whether you are struggling or not comes into it. Burnley have gone very young as they are building something for the future, a future that may seem them drop down before coming back up when those kids have the experience and have developed a bit.
Spurs in their own way also lowered the age of the squad - Udogie Sarr Veliz all 20. Johnson, VDV 22, Deki 23, Romero, Porro 24, Vicario (26) mixed with the experienced heads of Maddison, Richarlison, Bentancur, Bissouma (26) Son (31).
A lot of these players can form the backbone of this team for the next 4-5 years.
It's a moot point whether the younger ones come from the academy or are brought in. If they are good enough, they are old enough.
As said for Phillips in my earlier response, i think that if it were just VDV out then may be he would have started, but to go in alongside Dier or Davies, with Emerson also out of position would be too much.
Phillips, Véliz, Donley & Dorrington all made the matchday squad vs Wolves and that's the first step in gaining experience. If we were comfortable with 10 minutes left then may be one or 2 would have had a chance, like Veliz has at times this season
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None of the players you have listed are pulling up any trees and have found their level. The fact they leave shows they are not good enough for us and probably knew this deep down.
They all left for easier pastures.
Donley and Dorrington could have done the same but decided to sign contracts because they believe they are good enough for Spurs and are prepared to fight to do it.
These are the types of players you want. When Donley gets his chance watch him run his heart out for us.
Having watched Dier, Davies & PEH play at the weekend, I'm starting to think a lack of experience and a lack of Spursyness Is a good thing !!.. Go out there, show us what you can do and play with no fear !
Your comment about the Academy has some merit... How many times did we send Kane out on loan before finally giving him a chance. Can't help thinking this rather stupid idea of "Club signings" who are young and cheap, hurts the progress of our own young players
I'd give the young guys a go..... Worked well so far with the likes of Sarr, Udogie & VDV. I think Ange's style of football suits youn players who are not weighed down by the fear of losing
Sarr and Udogie are club signings.
All these people listing spurs youth 'stars' that didn't even come through their youth system 😂
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 52 minutes ago
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried and tested like Sarr (20) Udogie (20), instead of tried and tested Davies & Hojbjerg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Udogie who had 3 seasons of senior football behind him (74 senior apps) and did he introduce Sarr? no that happened last year and it was clear to see off the back of that he was ready for more.
It wasnt something he focused on at Celtic who are more focused on a player selling trading model.
* Sarr also had about 75 senior appearances already prior to Ange joining
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we were talking about Ange breaking in some youngsters
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we were talking about Ange breaking in some youngsters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has only been here for about 6 months lol
Page 1 of 1
First
Previous
1
Next
Latest
Sign in if you want to comment
Weak excuses to not play U21s..
Page 1 of 1
posted on 15/11/23
Yeh no excuse to keep playing the likes of Dier and Davies, when you have supposedly decent youngsters champing at the bit to be given a chance.
Spurs have conceeded six goals in one and a half gsmes since the return of Diercand Davies. Surely their time is up.
posted on 15/11/23
Poch was never afraid, I hope Ange goes for it at some point
posted on 15/11/23
Why are we, in 2023, still lining up with dier and Davies as our cb pairing? Every time those two names are on the starting 11 team sheet, it is a highlight of the absolute failure of the club.
Just play the kids. I would rather see them fail for the first time than dier and Davies fail for the 109th
Put hjolberg in that too. Sick of them all.
posted on 15/11/23
Dier is poverty but Davies gets a lot of unfair stick. I think he can still be a squad player.
posted on 15/11/23
Agreed tbh. At some point they need to be blooded
posted on 15/11/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
Yeh no excuse to keep playing the likes of Dier and Davies, when you have supposedly decent youngsters champing at the bit to be given a chance.
Spurs have conceeded six goals in one and a half gsmes since the return of Diercand Davies. Surely their time is up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's scary how much of a curse Davies and Dier are. Ange had to hook off Davies at half time and banished Dier from matchday squad for weeks. Why is he playing them? Surely this needs to stop.
posted on 16/11/23
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 10 hours, 17 minutes ago
Poch was never afraid, I hope Ange goes for it at some point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has to, I really don't think he has a choice until January.
posted on 16/11/23
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
Dier is poverty but Davies gets a lot of unfair stick. I think he can still be a squad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If by squad you mean 5th choice CB and 5th choice LB then I can support this.
posted on 16/11/23
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
posted on 16/11/23
Tbf to Ange he had Dorrington, Phillips and Donley on the bench against Wolves. The step up from U21's to senior football is huge.
The U21 team are winning every match in their league but when they faced Cambridge and Peterborough who are both league 1 teams, they lost.
It shows you the gulf. Phillips is the only one has been training consistently with the first team. Dorrington and Donley joined in later.
It all depends on how much Ange values his job if he wants to trust Eric Cancer. He has nothing to lose by playing Phillips over Eric.
Davies did well against Wolves and was one of our better players on the day.
posted on 16/11/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 52 minutes ago
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried and tested like Sarr (20) Udogie (20), instead of tried and tested Davies & Hojbjerg
posted on 16/11/23
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
posted on 16/11/23
comment by LukaBrasi Ange-r management (U22178)
posted 41 minutes ago
He has nothing to lose by playing Phillips over Eric.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, this is the point. If it were a scenario of playing a youngster ahead of a first-teamer I'd say no point rushing it and potentially rocking the kid's confidence. But this is a scenario where Spurs are down to reserves who have consistently let the team down over a long period, so if anything it'd be silly not to try something new. Expecting Dier to suddenly become a consistently good CB, especially in Ange's system, is delusional. Philips might bomb but he might also be a revelation. We know Dier will be crap no matter what
posted on 16/11/23
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
posted on 16/11/23
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not think that whether you are struggling or not comes into it. Burnley have gone very young as they are building something for the future, a future that may seem them drop down before coming back up when those kids have the experience and have developed a bit.
Spurs in their own way also lowered the age of the squad - Udogie Sarr Veliz all 20. Johnson, VDV 22, Deki 23, Romero, Porro 24, Vicario (26) mixed with the experienced heads of Maddison, Richarlison, Bentancur, Bissouma (26) Son (31).
A lot of these players can form the backbone of this team for the next 4-5 years.
It's a moot point whether the younger ones come from the academy or are brought in. If they are good enough, they are old enough.
As said for Phillips in my earlier response, i think that if it were just VDV out then may be he would have started, but to go in alongside Dier or Davies, with Emerson also out of position would be too much.
Phillips, Véliz, Donley & Dorrington all made the matchday squad vs Wolves and that's the first step in gaining experience. If we were comfortable with 10 minutes left then may be one or 2 would have had a chance, like Veliz has at times this season
posted on 16/11/23
comment by Ioavirgo (U10470)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think people underestimate the gulf in quality being a prospect like Donley and even someone who has underwhelmed like Richarlison or Gil.
I do not think a key PL game like Villa (h) is the time or the place to be blooding kids, certainly not from the start. A poor game can set them back. It needs to be managed more. Look how long the extremely talented Foden took to get into the City team on a regular basis. Palmer doing real well at CFC, barely got a look in at City, but at least he went to CFC with 20 PL appearances by age 21.
That said, i am perhaps surprised that Phillips did not start last week, however, i can understand that his introduction is probably better in a settled defence, not one which has had to make 3 changes. On balance, i think last week called for experience not experimentation and i would say the same for the next games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a prem match not require experience in your opinion
Have a look at this list
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/profidebuetanten/wettbewerb/GB1#/
Many if the young players on this list make debut at clubs struggling more than we are in the league and with less talent.
This attitude is why players leave tottenham. Madueke, Markanday, Edwards, Cirkin. What good is experience if you lose with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None of the players you have listed are pulling up any trees and have found their level. The fact they leave shows they are not good enough for us and probably knew this deep down.
They all left for easier pastures.
Donley and Dorrington could have done the same but decided to sign contracts because they believe they are good enough for Spurs and are prepared to fight to do it.
These are the types of players you want. When Donley gets his chance watch him run his heart out for us.
posted on 16/11/23
Having watched Dier, Davies & PEH play at the weekend, I'm starting to think a lack of experience and a lack of Spursyness Is a good thing !!.. Go out there, show us what you can do and play with no fear !
Your comment about the Academy has some merit... How many times did we send Kane out on loan before finally giving him a chance. Can't help thinking this rather stupid idea of "Club signings" who are young and cheap, hurts the progress of our own young players
I'd give the young guys a go..... Worked well so far with the likes of Sarr, Udogie & VDV. I think Ange's style of football suits youn players who are not weighed down by the fear of losing
posted on 16/11/23
Sarr and Udogie are club signings.
posted on 16/11/23
All these people listing spurs youth 'stars' that didn't even come through their youth system 😂
posted on 16/11/23
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 52 minutes ago
I dont think Ange is one for using youth, think he prefers the tried and tested.
You would have thought at Celtic he would have had more opportunity to do so and the transfer model of the club would also encourage that but it didnt seem to happen there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tried and tested like Sarr (20) Udogie (20), instead of tried and tested Davies & Hojbjerg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Udogie who had 3 seasons of senior football behind him (74 senior apps) and did he introduce Sarr? no that happened last year and it was clear to see off the back of that he was ready for more.
It wasnt something he focused on at Celtic who are more focused on a player selling trading model.
posted on 16/11/23
* Sarr also had about 75 senior appearances already prior to Ange joining
posted on 16/11/23
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
posted on 16/11/23
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we were talking about Ange breaking in some youngsters
posted on 16/11/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have used Winks, Skippy, Tanganga etc so the notion that Spurs do not use younsgters is not true
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we were talking about Ange breaking in some youngsters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has only been here for about 6 months lol
Page 1 of 1