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Keepers...

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posted on 5/12/23

Arteta has ruined both keepers. No one bar him looked at Ramsdale in the summer and said we needed an upgrade. I think it was a case of a keeper he initially wanted in 2020 beco.ing unavailable and thinking short term.

Ramsdale is young (25) and with coaching and playing time, would continue to develop. Raya at 27 is still young too and would continue to develop. However, what you can't have is 2 keepers who are both good enough to be number one have no idea who is the number one because of a manager who thinks he is so clever that he can have 2 number ones. Now you have 2 goalies who are constantly looking over their shoulders and thus are jittery.

You are right...we may need a new keeper next year but this is all Artetas doing. Could have had a settled back 5 going into a second year of playing together but got too clever.

posted on 5/12/23

comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 second ago
Arteta has ruined both keepers. No one bar him looked at Ramsdale in the summer and said we needed an upgrade. I think it was a case of a keeper he initially wanted in 2020 beco.ing unavailable and thinking short term.

Ramsdale is young (25) and with coaching and playing time, would continue to develop. Raya at 27 is still young too and would continue to develop. However, what you can't have is 2 keepers who are both good enough to be number one have no idea who is the number one because of a manager who thinks he is so clever that he can have 2 number ones. Now you have 2 goalies who are constantly looking over their shoulders and thus are jittery.

You are right...we may need a new keeper next year but this is all Artetas doing. Could have had a settled back 5 going into a second year of playing together but got too clever.
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*becoming available

posted on 5/12/23

I think Arteta should be pulled up about what he said about the goalkeeping position being interchangeable because that doesn't seem to be true Raya has done more than enough to be dropped but you can guarantee he will be playing on Saturday. If he had just said at the start Raya is my number one then maybe that might of made a difference and you wouldn't be in this situation where whoever is in goal may feel that given Arteta's statement that they are under pressure every minute of the game and they cannot afford to make mistakes otherwise they will get dropped. Having said that I've seen enough of Raya he's poor on crosses and he's not that much better with his feet than Ramsdale.

posted on 5/12/23

Arsenal had conceded the least amount of goals in the league before today. Thanks to these two lads.

posted on 5/12/23

He should have saved with his foot the third goal I don’t know why our keepers don’t use their foot. De gea and Pope are very good with their feet.

posted on 5/12/23

Very few top goalies around nowadays unfortunately.

Most are too focused on passing to hone their craft at the key skills of actual goalkeeping.

Ironically and unfortunately for us, the best goalie in the sport right now is one we sold to Villa for £20m for no good reason.

posted on 5/12/23

comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 14 minutes ago
Very few top goalies around nowadays unfortunately.

Most are too focused on passing to hone their craft at the key skills of actual goalkeeping.

Ironically and unfortunately for us, the best goalie in the sport right now is one we sold to Villa for £20m for no good reason.
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Yep Martinez was the one that got away...

posted on 5/12/23

Big decision tp make by Arteta for the Villa game.

comment by T-BAD (U11806)

posted on 6/12/23

I don't buy this narrative about Arteta ruining his confidence though
____________

He has undoubtedly put a level of pressure and scrutiny on both of them that no other keeper in the league is close to having to put up with. Both are performing below their levels from last season, so you'd have to say it's having some effect and probably would on most.

posted on 6/12/23

comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't buy this narrative about Arteta ruining his confidence though
____________

He has undoubtedly put a level of pressure and scrutiny on both of them that no other keeper in the league is close to having to put up with. Both are performing below their levels from last season, so you'd have to say it's having some effect and probably would on most.
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I disagree, if anything it's the media that added that pressure. Other outfield players have challengers to their position and get dropped from time to time why is there no talk of them being put under unnecessary pressure? I don't buy it.

comment by T-BAD (U11806)

posted on 6/12/23

The media are obviously gonna pile on, but with the GK position this year Arteta has contradicted his own previous approach to competition for places and contradicted the things he himself has said. It's not really surprising the media would run with that.

posted on 6/12/23

comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 5 minutes ago
The media are obviously gonna pile on, but with the GK position this year Arteta has contradicted his own previous approach to competition for places and contradicted the things he himself has said. It's not really surprising the media would run with that.
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Arteta has definitely defeated his own argument so far... that I can agree with.

posted on 6/12/23

comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 12 minutes ago
The media are obviously gonna pile on, but with the GK position this year Arteta has contradicted his own previous approach to competition for places and contradicted the things he himself has said. It's not really surprising the media would run with that.
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If he doesn't drop Raya after this game questions should be asked

posted on 6/12/23

comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
Arsenal had conceded the least amount of goals in the league before today. Thanks to these two lads.
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Thanks to or in spite of?

posted on 6/12/23

Questions are asked about the goalkeepers literally every single game. Arteta is not going to talk about it

posted on 6/12/23

comment by The Logical One™ - destroying the souls of trolls 😏 (U20872)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 5 minutes ago
I don't buy this narrative about Arteta ruining his confidence though
____________

He has undoubtedly put a level of pressure and scrutiny on both of them that no other keeper in the league is close to having to put up with. Both are performing below their levels from last season, so you'd have to say it's having some effect and probably would on most.
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I disagree, if anything it's the media that added that pressure. Other outfield players have challengers to their position and get dropped from time to time why is there no talk of them being put under unnecessary pressure? I don't buy it.
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I feel like you are trying to hard to deny what is right in front of you. No keeper that I know of has played at a top team and not been sure of his position. I cannot recall having 2 high profile keepers at one club who were both happy and performing.

The most recent example of this was Kepa as Mendy...Mendy won out, Kepa looked nervy, and eventually has gone out on multiple loans. Meanwhile, Mendy got shifted too. And I feel the same will happen here. Ramsdale will leave, Raya will prove to not be as good as Arteta thinks and in 2 years we will be looking for a new goalie.

You also mention that no one bats an eye at the interchanging of outfield players. But that is VERY very different. No player can play all games. And breaks plus competition does indeed spur them on. And even if a player ages a mistake, rarely is it as damaging as whe. A goalie makes a clear mistake. A goalie meanwhile thrives on continuity in the position (This is clear even on my U10 team) as the game is mostly about concentration and any mistake or nerves normally means paying the ultimate price of a goal conceded.

comment by Tu Meke (U3732)

posted on 6/12/23

Raya should play the home games

Ramsdale should play the away games

Never gonna happen tho

posted on 6/12/23

comment by Vladimikel Artutin - committing war crimes against football since 2019 (U18355)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
Arsenal had conceded the least amount of goals in the league before today. Thanks to these two lads.
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Thanks to or in spite of?
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Bloody ingrate.

posted on 6/12/23

comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 26 minutes ago

I feel like you are trying to hard to deny what is right in front of you. No keeper that I know of has played at a top team and not been sure of his position. I cannot recall having 2 high profile keepers at one club who were both happy and performing.

The most recent example of this was Kepa as Mendy...Mendy won out, Kepa looked nervy, and eventually has gone out on multiple loans. Meanwhile, Mendy got shifted too. And I feel the same will happen here. Ramsdale will leave, Raya will prove to not be as good as Arteta thinks and in 2 years we will be looking for a new goalie.

You also mention that no one bats an eye at the interchanging of outfield players. But that is VERY very different. No player can play all games. And breaks plus competition does indeed spur them on. And even if a player ages a mistake, rarely is it as damaging as whe. A goalie makes a clear mistake. A goalie meanwhile thrives on continuity in the position (This is clear even on my U10 team) as the game is mostly about concentration and any mistake or nerves normally means paying the ultimate price of a goal conceded.
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What has been infront of me since last season and now presently is that both keepers are below what would be considered top level keepers. I don't see how I'm denying anything by making an article about it.

But anyway, you can say you have not seen a simialr situation before but the fact still remains that as a professional sports person challenges to your position in a team is part of sport, if someone's confidence is crushed to pieces because of that then they probably don't belong in that enviornment.

Also I don't see how a goalie having a another top goalie challenging his position should excuse lack of concentration in a game. The same logic could apply to a striker, his mistakes infront goal can be costly so lets not have a top challenger for his position so he can better concentrate and be less nervous infront of goal.... that is the same argument and I just don't buy it tbh

posted on 6/12/23

comment by The Logical One™ - destroying the souls of trolls 😏 (U20872)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 26 minutes ago

I feel like you are trying to hard to deny what is right in front of you. No keeper that I know of has played at a top team and not been sure of his position. I cannot recall having 2 high profile keepers at one club who were both happy and performing.

The most recent example of this was Kepa as Mendy...Mendy won out, Kepa looked nervy, and eventually has gone out on multiple loans. Meanwhile, Mendy got shifted too. And I feel the same will happen here. Ramsdale will leave, Raya will prove to not be as good as Arteta thinks and in 2 years we will be looking for a new goalie.

You also mention that no one bats an eye at the interchanging of outfield players. But that is VERY very different. No player can play all games. And breaks plus competition does indeed spur them on. And even if a player ages a mistake, rarely is it as damaging as whe. A goalie makes a clear mistake. A goalie meanwhile thrives on continuity in the position (This is clear even on my U10 team) as the game is mostly about concentration and any mistake or nerves normally means paying the ultimate price of a goal conceded.
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What has been infront of me since last season and now presently is that both keepers are below what would be considered top level keepers. I don't see how I'm denying anything by making an article about it.

But anyway, you can say you have not seen a simialr situation before but the fact still remains that as a professional sports person challenges to your position in a team is part of sport, if someone's confidence is crushed to pieces because of that then they probably don't belong in that enviornment.

Also I don't see how a goalie having a another top goalie challenging his position should excuse lack of concentration in a game. The same logic could apply to a striker, his mistakes infront goal can be costly so lets not have a top challenger for his position so he can better concentrate and be less nervous infront of goal.... that is the same argument and I just don't buy it tbh
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You have every right to your opinion. I guess what I would ask is "why has no other top manager ever done this before?" Feguson, Wenger, Ancelloti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Zidane etc etc...NONE of them have ever started a season with that place up for grabs. Yes, they have replaced goalies but the one coming in knew they were playing until they made multiple errors. Or it was a natural changing of the guard.

Strikers miss chances yes, but difference is, there are 10 players with chances to score in a game (some have better chances than others). Whereas, there is only one goalie as the last line of defense allowed to use any part of his body to keep the ball out. As an outfield player (and I play weekly rec), if I know within the first 10 mins that my touch is off, my shooting is not on point etc, I can revert back to basics, and try help my team in other ways. Jesus is not prolific but when he is not scoring, he is battling, creating space and still contributing. If you as a goalie are a bag of nerves, it's pretty much a bad result all around.

posted on 6/12/23

comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 26 minutes ago

You have every right to your opinion. I guess what I would ask is "why has no other top manager ever done this before?" Feguson, Wenger, Ancelloti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Zidane etc etc...NONE of them have ever started a season with that place up for grabs. Yes, they have replaced goalies but the one coming in knew they were playing until they made multiple errors. Or it was a natural changing of the guard.

Strikers miss chances yes, but difference is, there are 10 players with chances to score in a game (some have better chances than others). Whereas, there is only one goalie as the last line of defense allowed to use any part of his body to keep the ball out. As an outfield player (and I play weekly rec), if I know within the first 10 mins that my touch is off, my shooting is not on point etc, I can revert back to basics, and try help my team in other ways. Jesus is not prolific but when he is not scoring, he is battling, creating space and still contributing. If you as a goalie are a bag of nerves, it's pretty much a bad result all around.
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Well Wenger himself did a lot of things that no one else did before him... we all know how great that turned out. So I'm not sure it's a solid argument to say no one has ever done it this way so it must be wrong, innovation is the opposite of that. Arteta has decided to try something different time will tell whether he's wrong or right but I commend his bravery for attempting to try.

I take your point about Goalie being a unique position , however I fail to see the correlation between having a top challenger for a position and that leading to a bag of nerves, in any other walk of life that would just suggest that individual is not mentally up to the task.

I just can't buy the excuse for Ramsdale not performing if he gets the chance next game being... "oh Arteta you brought in a challenger now how am I supposed to stay calm and perform between the sticks..."

posted on 6/12/23

I think you guys are kind of missing the point. The keeper is an important part of how the defence plays, and by extension, the entire team. You're not just asking one player to come in and perform, you're asking the team to adapt how they play every game. Not saying it can't work but I reckon that's the reason it's not really been done before.

comment by 16Bit (U3448)

posted on 6/12/23

All managers still state about having strong spine in the team. If one is thinking of replacing the keeper, then , to use the spine analogy, if the keeper is good, that spreads to the defence and so on. The top vertebrae is sound. If you keep tinkering with the cervical vertebrae you will eventually cause instability. I see this happening with the current keeper setup. Raya is not a good or strong keeper IMHO

posted on 6/12/23

Playing Raya means that you will need to score 3 or 4 goals every game and that might not be possible

posted on 6/12/23

I think you make some valid points. There were some who thought we needed to upgrade on Ramsdale albeit it wasn't the position most in need of investment. It could be true that Raya isn't the guy but as fans we are very quick to jump on a player.

Initially I thought the rotation of keepers could work by keeping both sharp but sadly we've got a situation where Ramsdale is loved by the fans which is putting extra pressure on the guy who has come in and taken his shirt.

Arteta has made a lot of decisions where initially we have all gone "WTF?" but more often than not, it has proven to be a good decision which is why we are where we are. I think it's right to question and challenge even though we are top and I think it's a lazy defence to just say we are top etc. Injuries are a bigger problem than the keeper right now though and we are one injury and a suspension away from seeing Cedric start a PL game of us

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