I'm kinda of the view that errors are just part of football. If you lose a game you trudge away from the ground moaning about the tactics or the misses or how crap player A or B are or referee decisions.
It's just part of the 'romance', for use of a better word, of football in that it creates discussion points and some things go down in folklaw. I can remember 2 truly awful decisions at Old Trafford that changed the game and one in Seville in a UEFA QF which also had a massive impact. That penalty vs Liverpool in the 1st minute of the UCL final.
I am not bitter about these. They have not ruined my life. But there is something far less satisfactory about a decision being wrong even with the VAR safety net in place. A system that doesnt even let you correct a simply wrong decision, like goal kick not corner. What's the fecking point if the game is still littered with officiating errors yet someone can be 5mm off side.
Its here to stay. I know that. It just needs to be used differently and much more effectively
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
The point of the laws of football is that they are the same whether you are playing in the PL or on a Sunday at your local field.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are plenty of laws of the game that are modified at different levels, as well as the way they are administered. At youth levels below a certain age they don't play 11 a side. Below a certain point in the pyramid you're allowed rolling subs. Referees don't ruin kids' weekends by booking them or sending them off for professional-type fouls. Below a certain level, referees don't communicate with the other officials by radio.
I get that some people see VAR as qualitatively different from all of the above, but the view of a sport which is identical in its simplicity from kids in a park all the way to the top of the pyramid has never been a reality.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
The point of the laws of football is that they are the same whether you are playing in the PL or on a Sunday at your local field.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are plenty of laws of the game that are modified at different levels, as well as the way they are administered. At youth levels below a certain age they don't play 11 a side. Below a certain point in the pyramid you're allowed rolling subs. Referees don't ruin kids' weekends by booking them or sending them off for professional-type fouls. Below a certain level, referees don't communicate with the other officials by radio.
I get that some people see VAR as qualitatively different from all of the above, but the view of a sport which is identical in its simplicity from kids in a park all the way to the top of the pyramid has never been a reality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which point in the pyramid do they allow rolling subs? The official FA pyramid only goes down 11 tiers or so.
Also, they certainly booked players and sent them off when I was 12 playing in my local team.
Refs communicating with a radio doesn't affect any laws of the game. It is simply a time saver. The exact same thing can be achieved by simple talking to to each other but it would take longer.
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it would be useful to have an appeal system for a minor decision like goal kick/corner, throwing awarded to the wrong side.
Sometimes these incidents seem inconsequential but getting an undeserved corner can change a game or vice versa. Similarly an attacking throwing taken away and given to the defending team. One review per team per half, which is lost if the review is wrong and fails. Normally always sorted out in seconds on a replay.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate the whole "foul in the build up" thing.
If a ref doesn't think its a foul then its not given. Ordinarily that is not reviewed in its own right but will be if a goal is scored.
So are we VARing all wrong foul decisions, or not?
No, just some of them.
If there is a foul in the build up, not given and you get a corner and score from it, then the foul counts for nothing. But if instead of a corner you score, then the foul is given by VAR.
Overall a system that picks up some things in some circumstances but ignores others is annoying to me.
welshpoolfan
I didn't claim that everything applies within the football pyramid, but was challenging the idea that everything is the same all the way from grassroots to the pyramid. I manage my kids' U18s team, which is 11-a-side and 90 minutes; we have rolling subs (which I believe is also permitted by the FA at the league's discretion in non-league football below a certain level). We have one match to go this season and I haven't seen a single yellow card, let alone red, for professional fouls - and every match there are a handful which would definitely be given at professional level. On the other hand, a lot of the refs are much less tolerant of players verbally challenging their decisions than in higher level football.
Refs communicating with a radio indeed doesn't change laws of the game; I'd argue that using VAR similarly changes no laws, but deploys technology to give the officials more tools in order to accurately administer those laws.
I understand you and many others see this differently, and quite passionately. As I acknowledged on the first page of this discussion, I don't think there's a right or wrong here - it's purely about what feels important to us. I can't put forward a factual argument that proves VAR is just the same as other technological advances in the game or that this distinction between the way elite football is handled and the rest of the sport is no different from the various other distinctions I mentioned. I'm just making the point that I think there are caveats to be made when a handful of people in this argument depict what to me is a slightly romanticised view of a pristine sport that, were it not for VAR, would be essentially the same at every tier.
Red Russian
My point was that in all FA sanctioned 11-a-side adult games (that I am aware of), the laws of the game are the same. There might be some differences in tools used to administer the laws (radios, VAR, electronic added time boards etc) but the game itself follows the same laws.
The suggestion made was to judge offside by feet rather than the current system because there is tech to make that possible at the top level. The issue is that the lower levels would still have to apply the new feet law even without the tech. I feel this would be significantly harder for any linesmen who have to apply the new laws without the available tech, and wouldn't really make any difference to the issues people have with offside (which mostly appear to be borderline decisions that would still exist).
Technology has ruined my favourite sports.
Cricket is chit now with the one decisions. And I find the review system hilarious. To the point I don't watch
Football is turning out that way. And no it's not because of what some people argue. For me, for example that Coventry goal stays a goal even though it was against my team in a semi final. If you have to draw lines on a computer to the MM then it's advantage to the player for me.
Tennis is the only thing where I think it's improved things to a degree. Although again with the review for in or out to the MM is ridiculous.
I don't see the Coventry goal, for example, being given as human error.
Don't get me started on the handball chit
welshpoolfan
I understand your point. I'm not contradicting it, but making a different one. We're perhaps talking slightly at cross purposes for the reason that we place emphasis of importance on slightly different things.
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry'd
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You want the life boats taken away even now with hindsight, everyone knowing how valuable they are? You want the ref and linesmen to be half hanging off a door? Not even a life jacket of being able to look up at the big screen to see the replay? If that's the case then this is something I'll never let go Winston, I'll never let go.
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry'd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooof.
This is what happens when you log on drunk, kids.
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You want the life boats taken away even now with hindsight, everyone knowing how valuable they are? You want the ref and linesmen to be half hanging off a door? Not even a life jacket of being able to look up at the big screen to see the replay? If that's the case then this is something I'll never let go Winston, I'll never let go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no gloating Barry
In my defence, I’ve got another 11 minutes to stay awake until I get off the train.
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry'd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lol
u get ‘Barryd’ every moment of ur life ffs
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you miss your station?
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you miss your station?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yes.
Pretty standard for me when I’m out in London.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you miss your station?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yes.
Pretty standard for me when I’m out in London.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston, I just usually check if the posters name has played for Dundee then reply accordingly, this version almost has me to be fair
"games, trophies and promotions can be decided by decisions that everyone knows are wrong."
VAR hasn't gotten rid of this
Sign in if you want to comment
Football without VAR
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 23/4/24
I'm kinda of the view that errors are just part of football. If you lose a game you trudge away from the ground moaning about the tactics or the misses or how crap player A or B are or referee decisions.
It's just part of the 'romance', for use of a better word, of football in that it creates discussion points and some things go down in folklaw. I can remember 2 truly awful decisions at Old Trafford that changed the game and one in Seville in a UEFA QF which also had a massive impact. That penalty vs Liverpool in the 1st minute of the UCL final.
I am not bitter about these. They have not ruined my life. But there is something far less satisfactory about a decision being wrong even with the VAR safety net in place. A system that doesnt even let you correct a simply wrong decision, like goal kick not corner. What's the fecking point if the game is still littered with officiating errors yet someone can be 5mm off side.
Its here to stay. I know that. It just needs to be used differently and much more effectively
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
posted on 23/4/24
The point of the laws of football is that they are the same whether you are playing in the PL or on a Sunday at your local field.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are plenty of laws of the game that are modified at different levels, as well as the way they are administered. At youth levels below a certain age they don't play 11 a side. Below a certain point in the pyramid you're allowed rolling subs. Referees don't ruin kids' weekends by booking them or sending them off for professional-type fouls. Below a certain level, referees don't communicate with the other officials by radio.
I get that some people see VAR as qualitatively different from all of the above, but the view of a sport which is identical in its simplicity from kids in a park all the way to the top of the pyramid has never been a reality.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
The point of the laws of football is that they are the same whether you are playing in the PL or on a Sunday at your local field.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are plenty of laws of the game that are modified at different levels, as well as the way they are administered. At youth levels below a certain age they don't play 11 a side. Below a certain point in the pyramid you're allowed rolling subs. Referees don't ruin kids' weekends by booking them or sending them off for professional-type fouls. Below a certain level, referees don't communicate with the other officials by radio.
I get that some people see VAR as qualitatively different from all of the above, but the view of a sport which is identical in its simplicity from kids in a park all the way to the top of the pyramid has never been a reality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which point in the pyramid do they allow rolling subs? The official FA pyramid only goes down 11 tiers or so.
Also, they certainly booked players and sent them off when I was 12 playing in my local team.
Refs communicating with a radio doesn't affect any laws of the game. It is simply a time saver. The exact same thing can be achieved by simple talking to to each other but it would take longer.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it would be useful to have an appeal system for a minor decision like goal kick/corner, throwing awarded to the wrong side.
Sometimes these incidents seem inconsequential but getting an undeserved corner can change a game or vice versa. Similarly an attacking throwing taken away and given to the defending team. One review per team per half, which is lost if the review is wrong and fails. Normally always sorted out in seconds on a replay.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 minutes ago
Ultimately, what most normal people want is to fix the glaring errors.
How many glaring errors actually were there pre VAR?
No real way of knowing for anyone.
Personally, I don't think there were many.
That doesn't mean they don't need fixing. But to claim that there was a huge problem with errors by officials pre VAR is re-writing history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are re-writing history without even realising it. There were glaring errors pretty much every match. Some of the biggest moments in football history are in fact glaring errors.
Handballs
Offsides
Balls not crossing lines
Fouls
Dives
Reds given/not given
Seems odd that you wouldn't want these glaring mistakes easily cleared up going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaring errors every match?
Not a chance. You’re making that up.
There were plenty of subjective decisions that fans disagreed with.
That’s not the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say a linesman gets an offside wrong pretty much every match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you would.
And how many of those are fractional, or relevant to how the game pans out?
This is what I mean. Surely the majority of us just wanted the big problems sorted out. And they weren’t overly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate the whole "foul in the build up" thing.
If a ref doesn't think its a foul then its not given. Ordinarily that is not reviewed in its own right but will be if a goal is scored.
So are we VARing all wrong foul decisions, or not?
No, just some of them.
If there is a foul in the build up, not given and you get a corner and score from it, then the foul counts for nothing. But if instead of a corner you score, then the foul is given by VAR.
Overall a system that picks up some things in some circumstances but ignores others is annoying to me.
posted on 23/4/24
welshpoolfan
I didn't claim that everything applies within the football pyramid, but was challenging the idea that everything is the same all the way from grassroots to the pyramid. I manage my kids' U18s team, which is 11-a-side and 90 minutes; we have rolling subs (which I believe is also permitted by the FA at the league's discretion in non-league football below a certain level). We have one match to go this season and I haven't seen a single yellow card, let alone red, for professional fouls - and every match there are a handful which would definitely be given at professional level. On the other hand, a lot of the refs are much less tolerant of players verbally challenging their decisions than in higher level football.
Refs communicating with a radio indeed doesn't change laws of the game; I'd argue that using VAR similarly changes no laws, but deploys technology to give the officials more tools in order to accurately administer those laws.
I understand you and many others see this differently, and quite passionately. As I acknowledged on the first page of this discussion, I don't think there's a right or wrong here - it's purely about what feels important to us. I can't put forward a factual argument that proves VAR is just the same as other technological advances in the game or that this distinction between the way elite football is handled and the rest of the sport is no different from the various other distinctions I mentioned. I'm just making the point that I think there are caveats to be made when a handful of people in this argument depict what to me is a slightly romanticised view of a pristine sport that, were it not for VAR, would be essentially the same at every tier.
posted on 23/4/24
Red Russian
My point was that in all FA sanctioned 11-a-side adult games (that I am aware of), the laws of the game are the same. There might be some differences in tools used to administer the laws (radios, VAR, electronic added time boards etc) but the game itself follows the same laws.
The suggestion made was to judge offside by feet rather than the current system because there is tech to make that possible at the top level. The issue is that the lower levels would still have to apply the new feet law even without the tech. I feel this would be significantly harder for any linesmen who have to apply the new laws without the available tech, and wouldn't really make any difference to the issues people have with offside (which mostly appear to be borderline decisions that would still exist).
posted on 23/4/24
Technology has ruined my favourite sports.
Cricket is chit now with the one decisions. And I find the review system hilarious. To the point I don't watch
Football is turning out that way. And no it's not because of what some people argue. For me, for example that Coventry goal stays a goal even though it was against my team in a semi final. If you have to draw lines on a computer to the MM then it's advantage to the player for me.
Tennis is the only thing where I think it's improved things to a degree. Although again with the review for in or out to the MM is ridiculous.
I don't see the Coventry goal, for example, being given as human error.
Don't get me started on the handball chit
posted on 23/4/24
welshpoolfan
I understand your point. I'm not contradicting it, but making a different one. We're perhaps talking slightly at cross purposes for the reason that we place emphasis of importance on slightly different things.
posted on 23/4/24
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
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Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
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Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
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Barry'd
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
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You want the life boats taken away even now with hindsight, everyone knowing how valuable they are? You want the ref and linesmen to be half hanging off a door? Not even a life jacket of being able to look up at the big screen to see the replay? If that's the case then this is something I'll never let go Winston, I'll never let go.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
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Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
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Barry'd
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Ooof.
This is what happens when you log on drunk, kids.
posted on 23/4/24
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You want the life boats taken away even now with hindsight, everyone knowing how valuable they are? You want the ref and linesmen to be half hanging off a door? Not even a life jacket of being able to look up at the big screen to see the replay? If that's the case then this is something I'll never let go Winston, I'll never let go.
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no gloating Barry
posted on 23/4/24
In my defence, I’ve got another 11 minutes to stay awake until I get off the train.
posted on 24/4/24
Fell asleep. Waankers.
posted on 24/4/24
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
It's like when titanic saved money by not having enough life boats. They thought they wouldn't be needed cos it was unlikely that it would sink. Still would have been nice to have in the end, just in case. Like having the option of VAR if a ref makes major fack up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most moronic comment of 2024 on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry'd
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lol
u get ‘Barryd’ every moment of ur life ffs
posted on 24/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
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Did you miss your station?
posted on 24/4/24
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
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Did you miss your station?
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Oh yes.
Pretty standard for me when I’m out in London.
posted on 24/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Glen Atle Larsen (U1734)
posted 6 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
Fell asleep. Waankers.
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Did you miss your station?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yes.
Pretty standard for me when I’m out in London.
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Winston, I just usually check if the posters name has played for Dundee then reply accordingly, this version almost has me to be fair
posted on 24/4/24
"games, trophies and promotions can be decided by decisions that everyone knows are wrong."
VAR hasn't gotten rid of this
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