Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I mean we are like incomparably closer to the team he wants than the one he took over, have people forgot how awful and turgid we played last season?
I don't know where this idea has come from that every team gets better over the course of the season and the fact that we haven't is troubling. Pep won his first 5 games for City, and then they ended up sputtering over the line and finishing 3rd which was seen as a massive disappointment.
We would always have poor ends to the season under Poch. Progress isn't linear. eventually the limitations of the squad reveal themselves and teams can adjust to you.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
this is the problem with the team overachieving at the start of the season, people forget what an absolute mess Ange took over. The levy out stuff had never been more vitriolic, the kane sale had people thinking we could finish in the bottom half. could you imagine if he had lost 4 straight to start the season rather than have that run just now? we would have reached new levels of toxicity.
Next time we go on a run Spurtle don't get caught up in the hype 👍🏻. Nothing is ever easy at this club.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
fact is there's still only about 13 players who you aren't horrified to see start. This squad needs loads of work
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely the pre-season expectations weren't based on form but how the squad was judge in comparison to the rest of the league?
If you thought 5th was about right at the start, and without any major January investment, achieving 5th should be target met. Another chance to carry on the rebuild in the summer and get players who fit the system he wants to play.
Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
========
He didn't need the FA Cup to get the full backing of the board. It was a long term project from the start and Edu and Josh Kroenke were standing behind Arteta no matter what (except maybe relegation!).
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 11 minutes ago
I think Conte (and I hated his football) would’ve actually done better with this squad.
Not Ange’s fault but we’re always a manager behind in terms of playing staff and systems,
I don’t see much free-flowing attacking football. I see a lot of possession.
Like you say, 5th is probably a good first season. I just don’t really see that too much has changed.
I’m happy to stick with Ange because we have to. Not sure he is the one I would’ve chosen to back but we haven’t really backed any of them - and I go all the way back to Jol.
We have to see this one through. I’m just not that impressed. I mean, who is the benchmark? Villa - yeah, we’re close to them. Liverpool? - miles away. Arsenal? City? Nowhere near. Getting closer to them? Not really in reality.
It’s not doom and gloom, it’s just experience and saying what I see and this end to the season has been coming since “when we get all our players fit again” unfortunately. Those ten games were the anomaly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if you feel like nothing has changed since the end of last season than that says more about you being jaded than anything else. it's night and day.
comment by Luka Brasi (U22178)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I might be hopeful of it yeah, if we added more quality to the team this summer.
Performances towards the end aside, we did nothing in the cups either, our top 4 challenge ended early, and Ange has been backed financially better than other other manager in his debut season IMO and all this while we had no European football to think about. It just hasn't been that good overall. £200m spent just to finish a few points above last season's total. There isn't much progress in that but I'll also consider this might be how it is initially before we do start making real progress.
the only thing I'm remotely concerned about moving forward is the set pieces which is obviously a massive problem and one that will get him sacked if he doesn't sort it
but does it concern me that Spurs are finishing 5th and are inconsistent? no, of course we are
there is a distinct lack of confidence atm from many of the players, going into there shells and playing the safe option, let's get this season over and go again with a couple of new and fresh recruits, a striker, wide forward and Gibbs-White
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely the pre-season expectations weren't based on form but how the squad was judge in comparison to the rest of the league?
If you thought 5th was about right at the start, and without any major January investment, achieving 5th should be target met. Another chance to carry on the rebuild in the summer and get players who fit the system he wants to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I thought we could have a top 4 challenge and get far in at least one of the cups, even without Kane. With the new additions the squad overall was still good. Since we did nothing in the cups and went out early in the top 4 challenge (not mathematically, but seriously we're out of it) then we didn't exactly fulfil my expectations going into the season. Then with the form shown in the first 10 games my expectations were raised a bit more in terms of what we could do in the league. Turns out I got carried away there though my initial expectations weren't even met anyway.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Luka Brasi (U22178)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I might be hopeful of it yeah, if we added more quality to the team this summer.
Performances towards the end aside, we did nothing in the cups either, our top 4 challenge ended early, and Ange has been backed financially better than other other manager in his debut season IMO and all this while we had no European football to think about. It just hasn't been that good overall. £200m spent just to finish a few points above last season's total. There isn't much progress in that but I'll also consider this might be how it is initially before we do start making real progress.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£200m spent, sold Kane and didn't replace him. We have made progress this season in terms of changing the style if play. We have also put more resources into recruitment. Our younger players like Micky, Udogie, Sarr, BJ have a year under their belt.
CB area has improved and we have a few potential players from the U21's who are on the verge of breaking through. We are in good place.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Admiral Ozil is my new favourite Star Wars cha... (U10178)
posted 11 hours, 59 minutes ago
Your just very easy to play against there are so many spaces to exploit that's before even discussing corners and free kicks. With the calibre of opposition in the Premier League most teams can hurt you, teams are doing the damage in the first half then sitting off. Against the smaller teams you can get away with it but not against the better sides.
For your manager to say we are just going to play this very open style of football irrespective of the opposition I find very arrogant almost reminds me of an aging Wenger. This ain't the SPL or the J league. Maybe he will realise in the summer he has to adapt otherwise he will be out of a job before the end of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this post.
Sputle.......
" I've checked the goal stats as well, 19 of our last 22 goals have come in the 2nd half. That dates back to the 10th of February (our last 13 games)."
***********************
The statistics show that every single team in the premier league score more of its goals in the second half.
Yes, and Spurs has the highest percentage of its goals scored in the second half, 65%.
And guess which other team also scores 65% of its goals in the second half?
Check it out.....
I'll leave you to guess!
Clue:Spurs fans hate playing this team away.
https://www.thestatsdontlie.com/football/uk-ireland/england/premier-league/1st-2nd-half-goals/
Spurtle
Apologies for the typo
Ted, yes teams tend to score more in the second half than first half, but ours is massively skewed in favour of scoring in the second half lately. 19 goals out of 22 in 13 games is 86% so way above the average, and it's reflected in our performances.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with most of this I just think we are creating a false narrative for ourselves by keep referring to how bad we were under Jose and Conte and how great this attacking style of play is under Ange. City, Arsenal and Liverpool play far more attacking football than spurs, score way more goals but also have the right balance, tactics and defensive shape to be effective in a way that Spurs are not. I'm all for supporting Ange BUT he's shown ignorance and arrogance (a dangerous combo) in refusing to adjust his tactics and approach in a new league to the detriment of our results, performances and subsequent fall down the table.
Forget about the past... It's about the here and now. The days of giving Ange a pass because it's not as shlt as it was under Conte are long gone.
The number of chaotic come from behind/ scrappy wins vs poor sides and ugly losses Vs anyone half decent speaks volumes..... Its about finding the right balance...... I'm not sure if Ange has proven anything at Spurs other than he likes to attack..... So Did Osssie..... how did that work out ?
Just coz he has a few tin pot league winners medals... it doesn't make him Pep Or Spurs the type of club that will give him limitless resources.
I want Ange to do well, I want Levy to back him with what he needs but I have my doubts. I fear this will just be another failed project, just a slightly more bearable one than the last couple
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it's not just about the credit in the bank but with Arteta having won that FA Cup in the first season it does help show people he is at least capable of winning a trophy and has something about him that suggests there is more to come.
Now I know we need more time with Ange for him to build his team and to transition his style but with all things considered we should have done more in this season. It's disappointing it's ended without a good go at a top 4 challenge and getting nowhere in cups when we had no Europe and spent a lot of money. Other managers could and have been able to achieve more under such circumstances. That's all I'm pointing at with these comparisons to other managers. Yes they required time to turn things around when league performances were not so good but they also did more in cup competitions, didn't spend as much as Ange and had European competition to contend with.
A good start for next season is almost imperative now. We need to be convinced more than we have after this wobbly end to the season, that we are heading in the right direction under this manager.
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Why are first halves such a problem for us?
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posted on 12/5/24
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/5/24
I mean we are like incomparably closer to the team he wants than the one he took over, have people forgot how awful and turgid we played last season?
I don't know where this idea has come from that every team gets better over the course of the season and the fact that we haven't is troubling. Pep won his first 5 games for City, and then they ended up sputtering over the line and finishing 3rd which was seen as a massive disappointment.
We would always have poor ends to the season under Poch. Progress isn't linear. eventually the limitations of the squad reveal themselves and teams can adjust to you.
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
posted on 12/5/24
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
posted on 12/5/24
this is the problem with the team overachieving at the start of the season, people forget what an absolute mess Ange took over. The levy out stuff had never been more vitriolic, the kane sale had people thinking we could finish in the bottom half. could you imagine if he had lost 4 straight to start the season rather than have that run just now? we would have reached new levels of toxicity.
posted on 12/5/24
Next time we go on a run Spurtle don't get caught up in the hype 👍🏻. Nothing is ever easy at this club.
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
posted on 12/5/24
fact is there's still only about 13 players who you aren't horrified to see start. This squad needs loads of work
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely the pre-season expectations weren't based on form but how the squad was judge in comparison to the rest of the league?
If you thought 5th was about right at the start, and without any major January investment, achieving 5th should be target met. Another chance to carry on the rebuild in the summer and get players who fit the system he wants to play.
posted on 12/5/24
Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
========
He didn't need the FA Cup to get the full backing of the board. It was a long term project from the start and Edu and Josh Kroenke were standing behind Arteta no matter what (except maybe relegation!).
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 11 minutes ago
I think Conte (and I hated his football) would’ve actually done better with this squad.
Not Ange’s fault but we’re always a manager behind in terms of playing staff and systems,
I don’t see much free-flowing attacking football. I see a lot of possession.
Like you say, 5th is probably a good first season. I just don’t really see that too much has changed.
I’m happy to stick with Ange because we have to. Not sure he is the one I would’ve chosen to back but we haven’t really backed any of them - and I go all the way back to Jol.
We have to see this one through. I’m just not that impressed. I mean, who is the benchmark? Villa - yeah, we’re close to them. Liverpool? - miles away. Arsenal? City? Nowhere near. Getting closer to them? Not really in reality.
It’s not doom and gloom, it’s just experience and saying what I see and this end to the season has been coming since “when we get all our players fit again” unfortunately. Those ten games were the anomaly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if you feel like nothing has changed since the end of last season than that says more about you being jaded than anything else. it's night and day.
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Luka Brasi (U22178)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I might be hopeful of it yeah, if we added more quality to the team this summer.
Performances towards the end aside, we did nothing in the cups either, our top 4 challenge ended early, and Ange has been backed financially better than other other manager in his debut season IMO and all this while we had no European football to think about. It just hasn't been that good overall. £200m spent just to finish a few points above last season's total. There isn't much progress in that but I'll also consider this might be how it is initially before we do start making real progress.
posted on 12/5/24
the only thing I'm remotely concerned about moving forward is the set pieces which is obviously a massive problem and one that will get him sacked if he doesn't sort it
but does it concern me that Spurs are finishing 5th and are inconsistent? no, of course we are
posted on 12/5/24
there is a distinct lack of confidence atm from many of the players, going into there shells and playing the safe option, let's get this season over and go again with a couple of new and fresh recruits, a striker, wide forward and Gibbs-White
posted on 12/5/24
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it harsh to change expectations based on over-performance? Imagine at work you got your year KPIs, smashed them and then was told that the targets were changed to match your early performance.
If instead of the 10 match run at the start, the results were more evenly spread would that make the season better?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it works comparing football results to results at every day work. Form is obviously very important in football. If we swapped how we started with how we ended around, we'd all be a lot more positive in our outlook for next season, so things would be better if there wasn't such poor form and performances at the end, yes. It would suggest that Ange has slowly started to crack it, as opposed to lose it (potentially).
We might still go on to do well next season with Ange and this is all part of building us into something great but nobody can convince me this hasn't ended disappointingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely the pre-season expectations weren't based on form but how the squad was judge in comparison to the rest of the league?
If you thought 5th was about right at the start, and without any major January investment, achieving 5th should be target met. Another chance to carry on the rebuild in the summer and get players who fit the system he wants to play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I thought we could have a top 4 challenge and get far in at least one of the cups, even without Kane. With the new additions the squad overall was still good. Since we did nothing in the cups and went out early in the top 4 challenge (not mathematically, but seriously we're out of it) then we didn't exactly fulfil my expectations going into the season. Then with the form shown in the first 10 games my expectations were raised a bit more in terms of what we could do in the league. Turns out I got carried away there though my initial expectations weren't even met anyway.
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Luka Brasi (U22178)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Christopher huffing glou (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
because I was expecting all those things at the start of the season because I don't have ridiculous expectations
I predicted 5th, we got 5th. I'm happy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine if you look at it simply just on where we're finished in the table compared to your expectations at the start. While my expectations were a little different at the start, they changed somewhat with how our form went after the first 10 games.
It doesn't take into account the performances either which have not been good. Did you not expect us for example, to be closer to the team Ange wants us to be, after a season of being here? Cause we do not look any closer and have gone backwards in terms of performance levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind us finshing weaker than we started. Imagine if it was the other way round and we finished strongly? Alot of fans including you would say title challenge next season and you just know the opposite would happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I might be hopeful of it yeah, if we added more quality to the team this summer.
Performances towards the end aside, we did nothing in the cups either, our top 4 challenge ended early, and Ange has been backed financially better than other other manager in his debut season IMO and all this while we had no European football to think about. It just hasn't been that good overall. £200m spent just to finish a few points above last season's total. There isn't much progress in that but I'll also consider this might be how it is initially before we do start making real progress.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£200m spent, sold Kane and didn't replace him. We have made progress this season in terms of changing the style if play. We have also put more resources into recruitment. Our younger players like Micky, Udogie, Sarr, BJ have a year under their belt.
CB area has improved and we have a few potential players from the U21's who are on the verge of breaking through. We are in good place.
posted on 12/5/24
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/5/24
comment by Admiral Ozil is my new favourite Star Wars cha... (U10178)
posted 11 hours, 59 minutes ago
Your just very easy to play against there are so many spaces to exploit that's before even discussing corners and free kicks. With the calibre of opposition in the Premier League most teams can hurt you, teams are doing the damage in the first half then sitting off. Against the smaller teams you can get away with it but not against the better sides.
For your manager to say we are just going to play this very open style of football irrespective of the opposition I find very arrogant almost reminds me of an aging Wenger. This ain't the SPL or the J league. Maybe he will realise in the summer he has to adapt otherwise he will be out of a job before the end of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this post.
posted on 12/5/24
Sputle.......
" I've checked the goal stats as well, 19 of our last 22 goals have come in the 2nd half. That dates back to the 10th of February (our last 13 games)."
***********************
The statistics show that every single team in the premier league score more of its goals in the second half.
Yes, and Spurs has the highest percentage of its goals scored in the second half, 65%.
And guess which other team also scores 65% of its goals in the second half?
Check it out.....
I'll leave you to guess!
Clue:Spurs fans hate playing this team away.
posted on 12/5/24
https://www.thestatsdontlie.com/football/uk-ireland/england/premier-league/1st-2nd-half-goals/
posted on 12/5/24
Spurtle
Apologies for the typo
posted on 13/5/24
Ted, yes teams tend to score more in the second half than first half, but ours is massively skewed in favour of scoring in the second half lately. 19 goals out of 22 in 13 games is 86% so way above the average, and it's reflected in our performances.
posted on 13/5/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
posted on 13/5/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with most of this I just think we are creating a false narrative for ourselves by keep referring to how bad we were under Jose and Conte and how great this attacking style of play is under Ange. City, Arsenal and Liverpool play far more attacking football than spurs, score way more goals but also have the right balance, tactics and defensive shape to be effective in a way that Spurs are not. I'm all for supporting Ange BUT he's shown ignorance and arrogance (a dangerous combo) in refusing to adjust his tactics and approach in a new league to the detriment of our results, performances and subsequent fall down the table.
Forget about the past... It's about the here and now. The days of giving Ange a pass because it's not as shlt as it was under Conte are long gone.
The number of chaotic come from behind/ scrappy wins vs poor sides and ugly losses Vs anyone half decent speaks volumes..... Its about finding the right balance...... I'm not sure if Ange has proven anything at Spurs other than he likes to attack..... So Did Osssie..... how did that work out ?
Just coz he has a few tin pot league winners medals... it doesn't make him Pep Or Spurs the type of club that will give him limitless resources.
I want Ange to do well, I want Levy to back him with what he needs but I have my doubts. I fear this will just be another failed project, just a slightly more bearable one than the last couple
posted on 13/5/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 14 minutes ago
People have to realise that there are long term gains and that everything does not stay the same for ever.
Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out for 18 months but their negative defensive football was laying the ground work while also evolving the squad. Now look at them. Klopp and Poch were more like Ange, focussing first on the fitness, pressing the approach, control and built from there.
Making judgements now on formations and players and selection and performances, as if that this is how it will be ad infinitum, is to jump the gun. We're a work in progress, it needs refining and that takes some.time and the right personnel
I don't believe we are any more open at the back than City or Liverpool, but we just don't stop the opposition transition well enough, and there are also individual error creeping in. Burnley goal was all about Skipp not being a LB, ball watching and reacting roo late to track his man.
As for second half performances I think many of yoj have answered the question already. We face low blocks teams set up like this and look to expose us on the break...but 60-70% possession takes its toll, some fresh legs too and often we come on stronger and finish stronger. It's not necessarily a flaw, it's almost inevitable that we will struggle at this stage in our development, as we face new challenges in response to opposition knowing us better. Opposition teams will be energetic in their press and defence for the first hour or so, but most do drop off and it opens up
City do much the same. They get stronger in games although also have the quality to perform at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been through these comparisons before with Arteta, Klopp etc. Arteta had that credit in the bank from winning the FA Cup something we haven't got close to with Ange, it bought him some time at least with the board, if not with the fans.
I'm willing to give him the time and things might very well be turned around but it's not the first season I was hoping for if I'm honest and who knows if he will get the same level of support at Spurs that Arteta did at Arsenal. We know what Levy can be like.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about credit in the bank.
It's about progress and an evolution from something very different from what we have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
There is an inevitability about the way Spurs' season has gone. May be the strength of our start was a surprise, but the way we played was a surprise to most and most could not cope with it. We got on a roll which was brought to an abrupt end vs Chelsea.
As the season has progressed, I believe the challenge has got harder due to 2 factors - Firstly, teams know better what to expect and how to counter us better. They also know how to attack our weaknesses.
The other element of this is the squad and personnel. As the season grinds on we have definitely run out of steam a bit and players form has dropped. This points to a lack of depth to keep competition high as well as keeping players fresh. It has also highlighted the shortcomings of the squad and we need a couple different options for the first team (FWD/LW/DM) and some better back up (LCB, LB), and within that we need to add some physicality.
We need a strong transfer window but also to start the next season well. I have no issue with Ange, or his approach, but any team needs to retain belief in their manager and if that ever goes then the results will never come. You can already see fans and pundits questioning Ange and some on here saying things like "Im happy for him to stay because he has to! "
For me that is to ignore the bigger picture which is a transition away from a negative passive style of play, to an aggressive front foot approach. This takes time in terms of evolving players approaches as well as the personnel on the squad. As said, Arteta took 3 seasons to get Arsenal to 5th and a squad rid of the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and others and they're probably still looking to add a FWD/LW/LB to complete it.
What is important to me is year on year improvement, so I will continue to have faith in him if we are making progress next season, some of the obvious issues are being addressed and we start to add other qualities to our excellent attacking play, and develop more balance.
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Yes it's not just about the credit in the bank but with Arteta having won that FA Cup in the first season it does help show people he is at least capable of winning a trophy and has something about him that suggests there is more to come.
Now I know we need more time with Ange for him to build his team and to transition his style but with all things considered we should have done more in this season. It's disappointing it's ended without a good go at a top 4 challenge and getting nowhere in cups when we had no Europe and spent a lot of money. Other managers could and have been able to achieve more under such circumstances. That's all I'm pointing at with these comparisons to other managers. Yes they required time to turn things around when league performances were not so good but they also did more in cup competitions, didn't spend as much as Ange and had European competition to contend with.
A good start for next season is almost imperative now. We need to be convinced more than we have after this wobbly end to the season, that we are heading in the right direction under this manager.
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