comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
Counterpoint: Hojlund's finishing was pretty high quality, and had the structural issues with the team been solved, and we'd been more effective at controlling possession, we wouldn't have been so poor at creating chances for him.
Toney in his prime isn't a prolific striker in terms of non-penalty goals. And spending £££ on him (not forgetting his wages) restricts our ability to invest in this window and future ones to fix those other issues.
I think it’s clear that we’re setting out on a rebuild, with a new, (hopefully much) smarter, longer-term approach, rather than the old Woodward strategy of chuck-loads-of-money-at-fancy-looking-short-term-fixes.
We have to be infinitely smarter with money for multiple reasons, and be looking to systems over individuals, cohesion over names. A wage structure we stick to, transfer fee negotiating windows we stick to. All of the Championship Manager nonsense in the bin. And it has to start now.
That’s what we have to be hoping for, anyway. And to me, Toney would likely end up reeking of an old-United transfer: the latest hot shiiit on big money at the wrong stage of their career with the potential to unbalance the dressing room.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is comparing Toney to Hojlund (or Zirkzee), and how many extra goals he would bring to the team. Given that Bruno takes our penalties, and scores pretty much all of them, it's only relevant to compare Toney's non-penalty goals with the other two. If Toney takes our penalties next season, those aren't additional goals for the team, they are just shifting them from one player to another.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 21 minutes ago
I think it’s clear that we’re setting out on a rebuild, with a new, (hopefully much) smarter, longer-term approach, rather than the old Woodward strategy of chuck-loads-of-money-at-fancy-looking-short-term-fixes.
We have to be infinitely smarter with money for multiple reasons, and be looking to systems over individuals, cohesion over names. A wage structure we stick to, transfer fee negotiating windows we stick to. All of the Championship Manager nonsense in the bin. And it has to start now.
That’s what we have to be hoping for, anyway. And to me, Toney would likely end up reeking of an old-United transfer: the latest hot shiiit on big money at the wrong stage of their career with the potential to unbalance the dressing room.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not satisfied we have enough firepower but I wouldn’t be if we signed Toney either.
It will rely on Rashford coming back into form and the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund going up a level.
I’m not so sure Toney would have scored much more than the 16 Hojlund scored for us last season. Granted Toney’s all round game is better at this point if their careers.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not satisfied we have enough firepower but I wouldn’t be if we signed Toney either.
It will rely on Rashford coming back into form and the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund going up a level.
I’m not so sure Toney would have scored much more than the 16 Hojlund scored for us last season. Granted Toney’s all round game is better at this point if their careers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We aren't signing him anyway now I don't think. We have seemingly put faith in Rasmus and decided Zirkzee is the perfect foil.
I can see Spurs using the Kane money finally and getting him. Think he'd link up really nicely with Son like Kane used to do.
I suspect our activity is being planned with an eye for being a good side, with still plenty of growth to come, when Pep finally buggers off.
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one is calling Zirkzee prolific though are they?
Anyone else gonna be watching on Monday? Will be interesting to see if Sancho is involved.
Of course we subtract them. Non-penalty goals is the relevant comparison. And the point isn't that we can expect that Zirkzee/Hojlund will match Toney's output, but that buying Toney would be a much bigger outlay for a player whose goalscoring stats suggest he wouldn't be a transformative signing.
And I know you don't think we'll buy Toney: you're saying you think we should, and I'm expressing caution about that idea. You still haven't answered the point Rosso made about the financial implications, as far as I can see.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one is calling Zirkzee prolific though are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, offence course not. But you can't take one players goals away because they are pens and not with the other just because you don't think he's that prolific.
Given we have Hojlund Garnacho Amad and Rashford etc......I think Zirkzee is probably the only forward player we will be signing. That's the issue I have. We probably don't have a room for another without a departure.
13th highest scorers in the PL adding someone who did make the original Dutch Euro squad and was drafted in because of injuries and also has a very poor strike rate.
I think my concerns are well justified.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Of course we subtract them. Non-penalty goals is the relevant comparison. And the point isn't that we can expect that Zirkzee/Hojlund will match Toney's output, but that buying Toney would be a much bigger outlay for a player whose goalscoring stats suggest he wouldn't be a transformative signing.
And I know you don't think we'll buy Toney: you're saying you think we should, and I'm expressing caution about that idea. You still haven't answered the point Rosso made about the financial implications, as far as I can see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see financial restraints being too bad.
We aren't in the CL so there's a 25% wage reduction in place. That's £50m which is crazy. Plus Varane Martial and a few others are gone now.
Financially he was viable for us. He's also 28 not 31/32 so he's not over the hill by any means like previous strikers were.
I think Spurs will get him and he will suit them to a tee.
All reporting suggests we have restricted spending power this summer and will need to generate significant revenue from sales in order to recruit reinforcements in all the positions we need. What's your basis for assessing that this is wrong? Without it, you're relying on magical thinking.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 22 minutes ago
Anyone else gonna be watching on Monday? Will be interesting to see if Sancho is involved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten hags presser should be interesting
Sancho sitting beside him would be even more interesting
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
https://x.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1812026137536500046?t=NsILabNgz_BAkEqWUEY_1Q&s=19
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've seen this a few times today and just can't imagine it happening. I doubt we'd have got Zirkzee if Toney was a genuine target.
Onana
De Ligt Branthwaite Martínez
Garnacho Bruno Mainoo Rashford
Højlund Toney Zirkzee
Basketball last season, Fantasy Football this time!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
All reporting suggests we have restricted spending power this summer and will need to generate significant revenue from sales in order to recruit reinforcements in all the positions we need. What's your basis for assessing that this is wrong? Without it, you're relying on magical thinking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no I'd have used that money on Zirkzee on Toney. Given he's only got 1 year left on his deal he's not going to go for more than 45/50m.
Wages wise he'd command more of course but we could easily cover it given how much we have saved already.
CL clause means wage bill down from 200m to roughly 150m.
Varane Martial and Donny gone too means another huge saving.
Financially we could have done it no question. Now we have added Zirkzee I agree it's less likely and not as easy to work into the budget.
I'm very sceptical that the extra total cost of ownership of Toney would not have an impact on our ability to address the other very important gaps in our squad.
Villa submitting a £50m bid for Onana isn’t going to help our case for trying to keep the price down on Branthwaite.
Toney would be in the 60 mill bracket you would think especially when you take in the utd tax
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Free Willy
Page 2 of 3
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
posted on 13/7/24
Counterpoint: Hojlund's finishing was pretty high quality, and had the structural issues with the team been solved, and we'd been more effective at controlling possession, we wouldn't have been so poor at creating chances for him.
Toney in his prime isn't a prolific striker in terms of non-penalty goals. And spending £££ on him (not forgetting his wages) restricts our ability to invest in this window and future ones to fix those other issues.
posted on 13/7/24
I think it’s clear that we’re setting out on a rebuild, with a new, (hopefully much) smarter, longer-term approach, rather than the old Woodward strategy of chuck-loads-of-money-at-fancy-looking-short-term-fixes.
We have to be infinitely smarter with money for multiple reasons, and be looking to systems over individuals, cohesion over names. A wage structure we stick to, transfer fee negotiating windows we stick to. All of the Championship Manager nonsense in the bin. And it has to start now.
That’s what we have to be hoping for, anyway. And to me, Toney would likely end up reeking of an old-United transfer: the latest hot shiiit on big money at the wrong stage of their career with the potential to unbalance the dressing room.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is comparing Toney to Hojlund (or Zirkzee), and how many extra goals he would bring to the team. Given that Bruno takes our penalties, and scores pretty much all of them, it's only relevant to compare Toney's non-penalty goals with the other two. If Toney takes our penalties next season, those aren't additional goals for the team, they are just shifting them from one player to another.
posted on 13/7/24
Rosso
posted on 13/7/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 21 minutes ago
I think it’s clear that we’re setting out on a rebuild, with a new, (hopefully much) smarter, longer-term approach, rather than the old Woodward strategy of chuck-loads-of-money-at-fancy-looking-short-term-fixes.
We have to be infinitely smarter with money for multiple reasons, and be looking to systems over individuals, cohesion over names. A wage structure we stick to, transfer fee negotiating windows we stick to. All of the Championship Manager nonsense in the bin. And it has to start now.
That’s what we have to be hoping for, anyway. And to me, Toney would likely end up reeking of an old-United transfer: the latest hot shiiit on big money at the wrong stage of their career with the potential to unbalance the dressing room.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not satisfied we have enough firepower but I wouldn’t be if we signed Toney either.
It will rely on Rashford coming back into form and the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund going up a level.
I’m not so sure Toney would have scored much more than the 16 Hojlund scored for us last season. Granted Toney’s all round game is better at this point if their careers.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 44 seconds ago
Define huge money.
Toney has one year on his contract and his reputation has also taken a slight hit of late too because of the betting scandal.
I don't see this deal happening but I wish we'd have put the 42m Euros on Zirkzee towards Toney personally. He's a proven scorer in this league whereas Zirkzee isn't even a proven scorer in an inferior league.
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25 goals in 86 games from play in the PL for Toney. I know it’s Brentford but it’s not exactly groundbreaking.
His strength is his link up play which apparently is Zirkzees strength too.
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Toney has 39 PL goals.
He averages 1 goal every 2 games for Brentford.
Zirkzee is averaging 1 in 4 in a poorer league.
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Does Zirkzee takes penalties because that massively boosts Toneys stats? I agree with Rosso. Considering cost an age I’d stay away from Toney.
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Just think it's interesting you substracted his pens to make your point look better. We don't do this with Haaland, Salah and co do we?
Ivan Toney is currently a much better striker than both Rasmus and Zirkzee in my opinion. I think we'd be a better team with him in it.
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Those guys score buckets of goals without penalties. Toney doesn’t.
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What kind of logic is that given Zirkzee doesn't even score as many as Toney and he's not playing in the toughest league in the world.
We came bottom half for goals last season. 13th wasn't it?
Are you satisfied we have enough firepower? I'm not at all. I think we are going to find goals hard to come by once again unless we do something else in this window.
Like I said.....I don't think we are getting Toney. I just wish we were.
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I’m not satisfied we have enough firepower but I wouldn’t be if we signed Toney either.
It will rely on Rashford coming back into form and the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund going up a level.
I’m not so sure Toney would have scored much more than the 16 Hojlund scored for us last season. Granted Toney’s all round game is better at this point if their careers.
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We aren't signing him anyway now I don't think. We have seemingly put faith in Rasmus and decided Zirkzee is the perfect foil.
I can see Spurs using the Kane money finally and getting him. Think he'd link up really nicely with Son like Kane used to do.
posted on 13/7/24
I suspect our activity is being planned with an eye for being a good side, with still plenty of growth to come, when Pep finally buggers off.
posted on 13/7/24
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
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Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
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Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
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No one is calling Zirkzee prolific though are they?
posted on 13/7/24
Anyone else gonna be watching on Monday? Will be interesting to see if Sancho is involved.
posted on 13/7/24
Of course we subtract them. Non-penalty goals is the relevant comparison. And the point isn't that we can expect that Zirkzee/Hojlund will match Toney's output, but that buying Toney would be a much bigger outlay for a player whose goalscoring stats suggest he wouldn't be a transformative signing.
And I know you don't think we'll buy Toney: you're saying you think we should, and I'm expressing caution about that idea. You still haven't answered the point Rosso made about the financial implications, as far as I can see.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
If you look at Toney's last three seasons in the PL, there's one season (22-23) where his non-penalty goals per 90 minutes is very impressive. The other two are mediocre. It would be useful having him in the squad but a big risk to lock in the investment of wages over 4-5 years when we have so little financial room to manoeuvre.
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Zirkzee took two pens last season for Bologna and a third in the cup during a shootout.
Do we have to subtract those two as well then?
As I keep repeating I don't think this deal is happening. We have seemingly gone elsewhere and this is just idle gossip now and his agent probably pushing for a move.
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No one is calling Zirkzee prolific though are they?
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No, offence course not. But you can't take one players goals away because they are pens and not with the other just because you don't think he's that prolific.
Given we have Hojlund Garnacho Amad and Rashford etc......I think Zirkzee is probably the only forward player we will be signing. That's the issue I have. We probably don't have a room for another without a departure.
13th highest scorers in the PL adding someone who did make the original Dutch Euro squad and was drafted in because of injuries and also has a very poor strike rate.
I think my concerns are well justified.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Of course we subtract them. Non-penalty goals is the relevant comparison. And the point isn't that we can expect that Zirkzee/Hojlund will match Toney's output, but that buying Toney would be a much bigger outlay for a player whose goalscoring stats suggest he wouldn't be a transformative signing.
And I know you don't think we'll buy Toney: you're saying you think we should, and I'm expressing caution about that idea. You still haven't answered the point Rosso made about the financial implications, as far as I can see.
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I don't see financial restraints being too bad.
We aren't in the CL so there's a 25% wage reduction in place. That's £50m which is crazy. Plus Varane Martial and a few others are gone now.
Financially he was viable for us. He's also 28 not 31/32 so he's not over the hill by any means like previous strikers were.
posted on 13/7/24
I think Spurs will get him and he will suit them to a tee.
posted on 13/7/24
All reporting suggests we have restricted spending power this summer and will need to generate significant revenue from sales in order to recruit reinforcements in all the positions we need. What's your basis for assessing that this is wrong? Without it, you're relying on magical thinking.
posted on 13/7/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 22 minutes ago
Anyone else gonna be watching on Monday? Will be interesting to see if Sancho is involved.
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Ten hags presser should be interesting
Sancho sitting beside him would be even more interesting
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
https://x.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1812026137536500046?t=NsILabNgz_BAkEqWUEY_1Q&s=19
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I've seen this a few times today and just can't imagine it happening. I doubt we'd have got Zirkzee if Toney was a genuine target.
Onana
De Ligt Branthwaite Martínez
Garnacho Bruno Mainoo Rashford
Højlund Toney Zirkzee
Basketball last season, Fantasy Football this time!
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
All reporting suggests we have restricted spending power this summer and will need to generate significant revenue from sales in order to recruit reinforcements in all the positions we need. What's your basis for assessing that this is wrong? Without it, you're relying on magical thinking.
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Well no I'd have used that money on Zirkzee on Toney. Given he's only got 1 year left on his deal he's not going to go for more than 45/50m.
Wages wise he'd command more of course but we could easily cover it given how much we have saved already.
CL clause means wage bill down from 200m to roughly 150m.
Varane Martial and Donny gone too means another huge saving.
Financially we could have done it no question. Now we have added Zirkzee I agree it's less likely and not as easy to work into the budget.
posted on 13/7/24
I'm very sceptical that the extra total cost of ownership of Toney would not have an impact on our ability to address the other very important gaps in our squad.
posted on 13/7/24
Villa submitting a £50m bid for Onana isn’t going to help our case for trying to keep the price down on Branthwaite.
posted on 13/7/24
Toney would be in the 60 mill bracket you would think especially when you take in the utd tax
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