comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did he actually say that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He said when United signed Martinez that he'd get found out as he wasn't tall enough and not great on the ball. Since then he's went back on his opinion and admitted he was wrong on him but still feels he'll struggle at times due to his height.
He said below on De Ligt
"I'm doubtful about De Ligt. He didn't get into the national team during the Euros, he was a squad member. He's been at two enormous football clubs, they normally don't like to sell players. That in itself tells a story. I'm not sure he is what Man United needs at this time. Jonny Evans played 23 times for Man United, they desperately need a centre-half. I look at De Ligt, he's a lightweight centre-half. What you want from a centre-half first and foremost is to defend."
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did he actually say that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He said when United signed Martinez that he'd get found out as he wasn't tall enough and not great on the ball. Since then he's went back on his opinion and admitted he was wrong on him but still feels he'll struggle at times due to his height.
He said below on De Ligt
"I'm doubtful about De Ligt. He didn't get into the national team during the Euros, he was a squad member. He's been at two enormous football clubs, they normally don't like to sell players. That in itself tells a story. I'm not sure he is what Man United needs at this time. Jonny Evans played 23 times for Man United, they desperately need a centre-half. I look at De Ligt, he's a lightweight centre-half. What you want from a centre-half first and foremost is to defend."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This bloke gets paid to give his opinion.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My concern would be not that he's lightweight, quite the opposite - whether he is fast and agile enough for this league. He will certainly use the ball well, but then again so did Maguire for the most part.
From what I can tell he never really convinced at Juve and had a great end of the season at Bayern, but hadn't really impressed consistently before that. It seems like he has issues with form and injuries, which probably go hand in hand, both of which will probably be more exposed playing in the PL for this Man Utd team.
So the narrative over the Dier stuff has been pretty lazy (fun WUM though), but any skepticism around the signing in general is pretty fair I think.
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
From what I can tell he never really convinced at Juve and had a great end of the season at Bayern, but hadn't really impressed consistently before that. It seems like he has issues with form and injuries, which probably go hand in hand, both of which will probably be more exposed playing in the PL for this Man Utd team.
So the narrative over the Dier stuff has been pretty lazy (fun WUM though), but any skepticism around the signing in general is pretty fair I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was in the Bundesliga team of the season in his first season. Obviously those awards aren’t the be all and end all, but it’d suggest that he’d impressed enough people. From what I read he was good but not grate at Juve.
I’ve never been the biggest fan from the little I have seen, but from everything I’ve read he’s impressed the fans of the clubs he’s played for and seemingly many in footballing circles as well - but then that has applied to many players in the past.
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
I don't know why some pundits feels the need to speak with authority on all matters and all players even if they're clearly talking out their arrrrrse and have never seen them play
Keane is quite good for that tbf, he mainly keeps his punditry to what he's seeing on the pitch and the more intangible things he can draw from his own experience. It can make his analysis feels a bit reductive and old fashioned but at least he's not just making shiiit up.
I remember when we signed Emerson Royal and Tim Vickery the South American football expert got wheeled out and started talking about what an exciting attacking fullback he is ffs
I think he's more suited to the PL than Germany and Italy. Good signing for me.
I’m sceptical about both of the Bayern lads that came in but we’ll just have to wait and see.
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, wasn't it some crazy like only Sheffield United conceded more shots on goal per game than United.
You could argue that isn't all the defences fault, if we held the ball at the other end of the pitch, the opposition wouldn't be shooting so often. We had to revamp the backline, playing with Maguire and Evans means it's very difficult to play even a medium line let alone a high line so this caused the big gaps in midfield we were seeing far too often.
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, wasn't it some crazy like only Sheffield United conceded more shots on goal per game than United.
You could argue that isn't all the defences fault, if we held the ball at the other end of the pitch, the opposition wouldn't be shooting so often. We had to revamp the backline, playing with Maguire and Evans means it's very difficult to play even a medium line let alone a high line so this caused the big gaps in midfield we were seeing far too often.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
definitely more of a team issue than a defence issue.
Whereas up front you don't seem to have enough quality to create & score enough goals, and that's barely been addressed,
Sign in if you want to comment
The De Ligt Fallacy
Page 4 of 4
posted on 14/8/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did he actually say that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He said when United signed Martinez that he'd get found out as he wasn't tall enough and not great on the ball. Since then he's went back on his opinion and admitted he was wrong on him but still feels he'll struggle at times due to his height.
He said below on De Ligt
"I'm doubtful about De Ligt. He didn't get into the national team during the Euros, he was a squad member. He's been at two enormous football clubs, they normally don't like to sell players. That in itself tells a story. I'm not sure he is what Man United needs at this time. Jonny Evans played 23 times for Man United, they desperately need a centre-half. I look at De Ligt, he's a lightweight centre-half. What you want from a centre-half first and foremost is to defend."
posted on 14/8/24
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did he actually say that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He said when United signed Martinez that he'd get found out as he wasn't tall enough and not great on the ball. Since then he's went back on his opinion and admitted he was wrong on him but still feels he'll struggle at times due to his height.
He said below on De Ligt
"I'm doubtful about De Ligt. He didn't get into the national team during the Euros, he was a squad member. He's been at two enormous football clubs, they normally don't like to sell players. That in itself tells a story. I'm not sure he is what Man United needs at this time. Jonny Evans played 23 times for Man United, they desperately need a centre-half. I look at De Ligt, he's a lightweight centre-half. What you want from a centre-half first and foremost is to defend."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This bloke gets paid to give his opinion.
posted on 14/8/24
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
Don't have a problem with keeping things brief - it's more saying things that are plainly incorrect. Souness' analysis of our current CB pairing for example is that De Ligt is 'lightweight' and Martinez isn't very good on the ball. It borders on completely idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My concern would be not that he's lightweight, quite the opposite - whether he is fast and agile enough for this league. He will certainly use the ball well, but then again so did Maguire for the most part.
posted on 14/8/24
From what I can tell he never really convinced at Juve and had a great end of the season at Bayern, but hadn't really impressed consistently before that. It seems like he has issues with form and injuries, which probably go hand in hand, both of which will probably be more exposed playing in the PL for this Man Utd team.
So the narrative over the Dier stuff has been pretty lazy (fun WUM though), but any skepticism around the signing in general is pretty fair I think.
posted on 14/8/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
From what I can tell he never really convinced at Juve and had a great end of the season at Bayern, but hadn't really impressed consistently before that. It seems like he has issues with form and injuries, which probably go hand in hand, both of which will probably be more exposed playing in the PL for this Man Utd team.
So the narrative over the Dier stuff has been pretty lazy (fun WUM though), but any skepticism around the signing in general is pretty fair I think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was in the Bundesliga team of the season in his first season. Obviously those awards aren’t the be all and end all, but it’d suggest that he’d impressed enough people. From what I read he was good but not grate at Juve.
I’ve never been the biggest fan from the little I have seen, but from everything I’ve read he’s impressed the fans of the clubs he’s played for and seemingly many in footballing circles as well - but then that has applied to many players in the past.
posted on 14/8/24
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
posted on 14/8/24
I don't know why some pundits feels the need to speak with authority on all matters and all players even if they're clearly talking out their arrrrrse and have never seen them play
Keane is quite good for that tbf, he mainly keeps his punditry to what he's seeing on the pitch and the more intangible things he can draw from his own experience. It can make his analysis feels a bit reductive and old fashioned but at least he's not just making shiiit up.
I remember when we signed Emerson Royal and Tim Vickery the South American football expert got wheeled out and started talking about what an exciting attacking fullback he is ffs
posted on 14/8/24
I think he's more suited to the PL than Germany and Italy. Good signing for me.
posted on 14/8/24
I’m sceptical about both of the Bayern lads that came in but we’ll just have to wait and see.
posted on 14/8/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
posted on 15/8/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
posted on 15/8/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
posted on 15/8/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, wasn't it some crazy like only Sheffield United conceded more shots on goal per game than United.
You could argue that isn't all the defences fault, if we held the ball at the other end of the pitch, the opposition wouldn't be shooting so often. We had to revamp the backline, playing with Maguire and Evans means it's very difficult to play even a medium line let alone a high line so this caused the big gaps in midfield we were seeing far too often.
posted on 15/8/24
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
I didn't realise about TOTS, although doing it for Bayern would be very different from having this Utd team in front of him.
I'm pretty interested to see how he does either way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don’t need to play in a top team to be considered for toty for a defender, to be fair.
I think we’ll be a lot better defensively this season for what it’s worth anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really see your defence as your biggest issue. You've had injuries so its chopped and changed but the numbers have been ok and understandably worse last season with all those injuries - last season it was still the best outside of the top 4 (besides Dycheball)
It's been your goal scoring that seems to hold you back - 57 and 58 in the last 2 seasons. that's 20 - 30 short of your contemporaries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were conceding like 20 shots a game though and somehow coming out with 1-1s or 1-0s. Obviously I can't speak to the quality of those chances, but they were quite lucky to finish as highly as they did, from what I saw. A lot to improve on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, wasn't it some crazy like only Sheffield United conceded more shots on goal per game than United.
You could argue that isn't all the defences fault, if we held the ball at the other end of the pitch, the opposition wouldn't be shooting so often. We had to revamp the backline, playing with Maguire and Evans means it's very difficult to play even a medium line let alone a high line so this caused the big gaps in midfield we were seeing far too often.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
definitely more of a team issue than a defence issue.
Whereas up front you don't seem to have enough quality to create & score enough goals, and that's barely been addressed,
Page 4 of 4