Ten Hag clearly isn't their first choice - it's more a case of not wanting to fire him for another manager that they don't want.
That raises serious questions though. The fact is that there is only one Pep Guardiola. Every other manager has a question mark and would be a gamble. Arsenal got Arteta, Spurs got Ange, Chelsea went for Maresca, Liverpool went for Slot. None of these managers were their fanbases' first choice.
It seems to me that Ineos are too scared to kake a bold decision to go against public opinion.
It seems to me that Ineos are too scared to kake a bold decision to go against public opinion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why I question how "success driven" they are apparently
Along with that, it doesn't actually help ETH either. Even though I didn't want him to stay after the summer, the fact that you have spoken to other managers and then kept him offers no confidence in ETH at all. I mean if you're going to keep ETH, at least make it feel like you want him!!! And ETH is so desperate to prove himself that he let them treat him that way. Madness on both sides.
It was a very weak decision in my view. There aren't many great managers out there at any one time. You may get 2 or 3, then with the rest, it's a case of who is solid or potentially very good.
But even if who you want isn't available, it's better to go with someone else than stick with someone who you know isn't the right guy at all.
Back ur manager! brings u 2 cups in 2 years and this is how u treat him? imagine what he'd win you if you keep backing him and buying Ajax players? Shameful to want him gone. Get behind him and support the manager. Hes great.
I think it's pretty clear that the INEOS management (correctly) diagnosed long-term structural and strategic issues as fundamental to the club's sporting struggles, and something that fundamentally hampered ETH in doing his job. So their first task was to bring in best in industry personnel and create a structure that had much more personal accountability and that enables decisions to be made more efficiently and more informed by the expertise within the organisation.
As for the coach, that's a decision Ratcliffe and Brailsford wouldn't consider themselves best qualified to make, and they weren't able to put in place the new executive team until about the time that a decision had to be made about ETH's future, which included who they would appoint in the event of firing him. There's plenty of evidence that those conducting the review were ambivalent about keeping ETH, and we can expect him to be held to account based on his performance this season. I don't see any evidence that the leadership was scared to go against public opinion; there would have been lots of support for a decision to sack ETH at the end of the season, for instance. We also have multiple reports that the club spoke to both De Zerbi and McKenna, who certainly fall into the same category of talented managers who aren't proven at a big club.
I think what saved Ten Hag was more a case of timing: the relevant people weren't in place in time to do the groundwork on defining the footballing strategy, and therefore the scoping out the attributes of the ideal coach, after which the detailed work on analysing and sounding out candidates would take place. They probably wanted to avoid the upheaval of appointing someone who would be likely to be another interim manager, and thought it best to offer stability, enabling ETH to work with a better support structure around him.
I have little doubt that the OP would be among the first to conclude that INEOS had messed up had they appointed another manager in the summer and then seen the team get off to a slow start to the season.
Wow, we reached the "Flailing around punching at everyone" stage after 3 games.
I'm not INEOS' biggest fan, but for non footballing reasons... On the football side of things, i'll wait for a few more seasons before creating a cry fest.
INEOS will be the worst thing that happened to United, even worse than Glazers. Old Jim does not care about football, he is all about profit and relevance. People make me laugh saying INEOS is doing a good job because the signings this past transfer window, we paid well over their value for all the signings and the team didn't improve to the slightest.
I'm not blaming Ineos for keeping Ten Hag on. Indeed I think in many ways it would have been easier to sack him.
I think he'll ultimately end up being a fall guy though. He'll have been the one to have dealt with all the crap but ultimately won't be the one to benefit long term IMO. He's a good manager and in other circumstances think he could do very well.
INEOS without a doubt deserve another 18-24 months before you can see where this project is going. It's far too soon to decide on them now.
What I will say though.....is they failed their first major task. It's absolutely crystal clear they were going to sack him and U-turned after the upset at Wembley. All this BS propaganda about us already having the 'right guy' is utter BS and even ETH fanboys know that too. Nobody is buying that line.
If they have to rectify that mistake in the next few months they are going to look very amateurish and what's worse is we've added a few more former ETH players to the mix since that decision too which is far from ideal.
Things can change quickly in football though. With a good manager appointment and a top signing or two then momentum can build. This squad with this manager though is just going to be more of the same. Not good enough.
For me, it's the way they kept him - I don't know of any other club that would so openly speak to other managers, whilst your current one is in place. That's the bit that I feel was poorly thought out and gives out the wrong signals to ETH.
I wonder if ETH ever said to them, why are you talking to all these other managers if you're going to keep me.
ETH has already lost more PL games than Ole did in 28 fewer games. đ
ETH - 25 losses in 81 PL games
OGS - 24 losses in 109 PL games
An absolute shambles.
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 17 minutes ago
INEOS will be the worst thing that happened to United, even worse than Glazers. Old Jim does not care about football, he is all about profit and relevance. People make me laugh saying INEOS is doing a good job because the signings this past transfer window, we paid well over their value for all the signings and the team didn't improve to the slightest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So they are all about profit, but also overspend on players? Makes perfect sense,
There were enough mitigating factors to give him the benefit of the doubt after the cup win
As for Ineos this summer window has probably been the best in terms of deals done post Fergie
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 2 minutes ago
There were enough mitigating factors to give him the benefit of the doubt after the cup win
As for Ineos this summer window has probably been the best in terms of deals done post Fergie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
Any Utd manager who loses 19 games, finishes bottom of a poor CL group and then finishes 8th in the PL with a pathetic GD deserves sacking.
Turning up in two big cup games last season (Liverpool and City) simply isn't enough. And let's not forget we were a toenail away from not even making the final against a championship club no less.
Should have parted ways. Big mistake they made.
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 53 minutes ago
INEOS without a doubt deserve another 18-24 months before you can see where this project is going. It's far too soon to decide on them now.
What I will say though.....is they failed their first major task. It's absolutely crystal clear they were going to sack him and U-turned after the upset at Wembley. All this BS propaganda about us already having the 'right guy' is utter BS and even ETH fanboys know that too. Nobody is buying that line.
If they have to rectify that mistake in the next few months they are going to look very amateurish and what's worse is we've added a few more former ETH players to the mix since that decision too which is far from ideal.
Things can change quickly in football though. With a good manager appointment and a top signing or two then momentum can build. This squad with this manager though is just going to be more of the same. Not good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is never a doubt in your emails, no possibly ,I think, maybe.
And yet you've never shown signs of being omnipotent.
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 10 minutes ago
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
STI85 talking chit as usual. Whudda thunk it?
Now now boys. Play nice. I know it's hard time for you right now being shown up to be completely wrong.
đ
comment by Clever - son son son - 'Ten Haaaagendas please' of the year Runner Up 2021 (U18599)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 10 minutes ago
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
STI85 talking chit as usual. Whudda thunk it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been spot on for months numbnuts. You must be watching re-runs of Fergie's teams by mistake.
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
And people said I'm overrreactive
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 21 minutes ago
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have listened to me then. đ
You're still in complete denial about it I see though.
25 defeats in 82 PL games.
Ole had 24 in 109.
We aren't getting better. We are in fact getting worse.
25 defeats in 81 sorry. Even worse. đ
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 23 minutes ago
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's uniteds bestest match going fan. You leave him alone
You might catch an STI85 too otherwise known as spitting verbal diahorea 24/7
Sign in if you want to comment
INEOS
Page 1 of 3
posted on 3/9/24
Ten Hag clearly isn't their first choice - it's more a case of not wanting to fire him for another manager that they don't want.
That raises serious questions though. The fact is that there is only one Pep Guardiola. Every other manager has a question mark and would be a gamble. Arsenal got Arteta, Spurs got Ange, Chelsea went for Maresca, Liverpool went for Slot. None of these managers were their fanbases' first choice.
It seems to me that Ineos are too scared to kake a bold decision to go against public opinion.
posted on 3/9/24
It seems to me that Ineos are too scared to kake a bold decision to go against public opinion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why I question how "success driven" they are apparently
posted on 3/9/24
Along with that, it doesn't actually help ETH either. Even though I didn't want him to stay after the summer, the fact that you have spoken to other managers and then kept him offers no confidence in ETH at all. I mean if you're going to keep ETH, at least make it feel like you want him!!! And ETH is so desperate to prove himself that he let them treat him that way. Madness on both sides.
It was a very weak decision in my view. There aren't many great managers out there at any one time. You may get 2 or 3, then with the rest, it's a case of who is solid or potentially very good.
But even if who you want isn't available, it's better to go with someone else than stick with someone who you know isn't the right guy at all.
posted on 3/9/24
Back ur manager! brings u 2 cups in 2 years and this is how u treat him? imagine what he'd win you if you keep backing him and buying Ajax players? Shameful to want him gone. Get behind him and support the manager. Hes great.
posted on 3/9/24
I think it's pretty clear that the INEOS management (correctly) diagnosed long-term structural and strategic issues as fundamental to the club's sporting struggles, and something that fundamentally hampered ETH in doing his job. So their first task was to bring in best in industry personnel and create a structure that had much more personal accountability and that enables decisions to be made more efficiently and more informed by the expertise within the organisation.
As for the coach, that's a decision Ratcliffe and Brailsford wouldn't consider themselves best qualified to make, and they weren't able to put in place the new executive team until about the time that a decision had to be made about ETH's future, which included who they would appoint in the event of firing him. There's plenty of evidence that those conducting the review were ambivalent about keeping ETH, and we can expect him to be held to account based on his performance this season. I don't see any evidence that the leadership was scared to go against public opinion; there would have been lots of support for a decision to sack ETH at the end of the season, for instance. We also have multiple reports that the club spoke to both De Zerbi and McKenna, who certainly fall into the same category of talented managers who aren't proven at a big club.
I think what saved Ten Hag was more a case of timing: the relevant people weren't in place in time to do the groundwork on defining the footballing strategy, and therefore the scoping out the attributes of the ideal coach, after which the detailed work on analysing and sounding out candidates would take place. They probably wanted to avoid the upheaval of appointing someone who would be likely to be another interim manager, and thought it best to offer stability, enabling ETH to work with a better support structure around him.
I have little doubt that the OP would be among the first to conclude that INEOS had messed up had they appointed another manager in the summer and then seen the team get off to a slow start to the season.
posted on 3/9/24
Wow, we reached the "Flailing around punching at everyone" stage after 3 games.
I'm not INEOS' biggest fan, but for non footballing reasons... On the football side of things, i'll wait for a few more seasons before creating a cry fest.
posted on 3/9/24
INEOS will be the worst thing that happened to United, even worse than Glazers. Old Jim does not care about football, he is all about profit and relevance. People make me laugh saying INEOS is doing a good job because the signings this past transfer window, we paid well over their value for all the signings and the team didn't improve to the slightest.
posted on 3/9/24
I'm not blaming Ineos for keeping Ten Hag on. Indeed I think in many ways it would have been easier to sack him.
I think he'll ultimately end up being a fall guy though. He'll have been the one to have dealt with all the crap but ultimately won't be the one to benefit long term IMO. He's a good manager and in other circumstances think he could do very well.
posted on 3/9/24
INEOS without a doubt deserve another 18-24 months before you can see where this project is going. It's far too soon to decide on them now.
What I will say though.....is they failed their first major task. It's absolutely crystal clear they were going to sack him and U-turned after the upset at Wembley. All this BS propaganda about us already having the 'right guy' is utter BS and even ETH fanboys know that too. Nobody is buying that line.
If they have to rectify that mistake in the next few months they are going to look very amateurish and what's worse is we've added a few more former ETH players to the mix since that decision too which is far from ideal.
Things can change quickly in football though. With a good manager appointment and a top signing or two then momentum can build. This squad with this manager though is just going to be more of the same. Not good enough.
posted on 3/9/24
For me, it's the way they kept him - I don't know of any other club that would so openly speak to other managers, whilst your current one is in place. That's the bit that I feel was poorly thought out and gives out the wrong signals to ETH.
I wonder if ETH ever said to them, why are you talking to all these other managers if you're going to keep me.
posted on 3/9/24
ETH has already lost more PL games than Ole did in 28 fewer games. đ
ETH - 25 losses in 81 PL games
OGS - 24 losses in 109 PL games
An absolute shambles.
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 17 minutes ago
INEOS will be the worst thing that happened to United, even worse than Glazers. Old Jim does not care about football, he is all about profit and relevance. People make me laugh saying INEOS is doing a good job because the signings this past transfer window, we paid well over their value for all the signings and the team didn't improve to the slightest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So they are all about profit, but also overspend on players? Makes perfect sense,
posted on 3/9/24
There were enough mitigating factors to give him the benefit of the doubt after the cup win
As for Ineos this summer window has probably been the best in terms of deals done post Fergie
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 2 minutes ago
There were enough mitigating factors to give him the benefit of the doubt after the cup win
As for Ineos this summer window has probably been the best in terms of deals done post Fergie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
Any Utd manager who loses 19 games, finishes bottom of a poor CL group and then finishes 8th in the PL with a pathetic GD deserves sacking.
Turning up in two big cup games last season (Liverpool and City) simply isn't enough. And let's not forget we were a toenail away from not even making the final against a championship club no less.
Should have parted ways. Big mistake they made.
posted on 3/9/24
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 53 minutes ago
INEOS without a doubt deserve another 18-24 months before you can see where this project is going. It's far too soon to decide on them now.
What I will say though.....is they failed their first major task. It's absolutely crystal clear they were going to sack him and U-turned after the upset at Wembley. All this BS propaganda about us already having the 'right guy' is utter BS and even ETH fanboys know that too. Nobody is buying that line.
If they have to rectify that mistake in the next few months they are going to look very amateurish and what's worse is we've added a few more former ETH players to the mix since that decision too which is far from ideal.
Things can change quickly in football though. With a good manager appointment and a top signing or two then momentum can build. This squad with this manager though is just going to be more of the same. Not good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is never a doubt in your emails, no possibly ,I think, maybe.
And yet you've never shown signs of being omnipotent.
posted on 3/9/24
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 10 minutes ago
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
STI85 talking chit as usual. Whudda thunk it?
posted on 3/9/24
Now now boys. Play nice. I know it's hard time for you right now being shown up to be completely wrong.
đ
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Clever - son son son - 'Ten Haaaagendas please' of the year Runner Up 2021 (U18599)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 10 minutes ago
There weren't at all. Most fans have seen this coming a mile off for months.
________
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 7 minutes ago
Finally, we get to know ST85's views on whether ETH will come good or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there were
Some of which have been well documented on those forum and indeed referred to already in this thread
Stop deluding yourself that you are part of a group of utd fans that 'saw this coming'. We've seen how many managers sacked now since saf ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
STI85 talking chit as usual. Whudda thunk it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been spot on for months numbnuts. You must be watching re-runs of Fergie's teams by mistake.
posted on 3/9/24
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
posted on 3/9/24
And people said I'm overrreactive
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 21 minutes ago
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have listened to me then. đ
You're still in complete denial about it I see though.
25 defeats in 82 PL games.
Ole had 24 in 109.
We aren't getting better. We are in fact getting worse.
posted on 3/9/24
25 defeats in 81 sorry. Even worse. đ
posted on 3/9/24
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 23 minutes ago
I've been spot on for months
____
Well you told us on a daily basis since Christmas that he would be sacked at the end of the season
You weren't spot on at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's uniteds bestest match going fan. You leave him alone
You might catch an STI85 too otherwise known as spitting verbal diahorea 24/7
Page 1 of 3