comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 22 minutes ago
The Blessed Saint Levy can do no wrong in Devon’s eyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you not just read my criticism of our ticket pricing strategy?
If UEFA want to hold themselves to their own standards then fair play. But they wont, so I object on principle of them dishing out commandments like these. They amore than anyone care more about their bottom line than they do the game.
I also object on the away ticket prices as it does not seem fair that i'm sat here having paid £75 and 5000 gooners or hammers are sat over there having paid £30 each.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by GJ #COYS (U23170)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they go or not is irrelevant - there is such a thing as human compassion for fans that do go. Not everyone is selfish enough to form an opinion on a decision based solely on how it affects them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the owners have done enough to justify it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is also something called running a business
Fans like you calling for massive spending but moaning about ticket prices which, guess what, pay for the massive spending. .
I don't really care about away European fans and how much they pay. Doesn't bother me in the slightest...but you have a good moan about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What massive spending?
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the problem with the moral objectors that don’t go to games is they often don’t fully understand the issue.
The tickets for the Roma game will be hard to get I would imagine - if they sell them at £30 and a tenner for kids then demand will be insane and you will have people who go to the a hitter games missing out. If Levy sets them like a Prem game, so £60, then you are back in this absurd position where home fans have paid double that of away fans to watch the same game.
The other issue with capping away tickets is that there are people who buy them just for the sake of the loyalty points without going to the games. If the cap is £30 there will be fans out there who drop £120 to gain potentially 20 loyalty points and not go to the actual game - then when the final comes round they will go if we make it as they have enough loyalty points - it’s a broken system.
Meanwhile, in the final, UEFA set the ticket prices and they sure as schitt won’t be capping it at £30, it will be the usual £60 for cheap seats right up to £300 for the premiums - so it’s double standards from them
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by GJ #COYS (U23170)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they go or not is irrelevant - there is such a thing as human compassion for fans that do go. Not everyone is selfish enough to form an opinion on a decision based solely on how it affects them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the owners have done enough to justify it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is also something called running a business
Fans like you calling for massive spending but moaning about ticket prices which, guess what, pay for the massive spending. .
I don't really care about away European fans and how much they pay. Doesn't bother me in the slightest...but you have a good moan about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What massive spending?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let’s not get into this again - we’re consistently in the top 10 in Europe these days for transfer spending.
How we spend and lack of commitment to a strategy is by far the biggest problem on that front.
Solanke was the biggest transfer fee in the Prem for instance - we spend money
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
And the sane thinking of us are sick & tired of Levyshire's constant reaming of Levy's arce crack, when there is absolutely no good reason to.
Tottenham Hotspur football club is going nowhere under Levy & ENIC, and I will continue to bang the Levy out drum until he disappears out of Spurs.
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 12 minutes ago
And the sane thinking of us are sick & tired of Levyshire's constant reaming of Levy's arce crack, when there is absolutely no good reason to.
Tottenham Hotspur football club is going nowhere under Levy & ENIC, and I will continue to bang the Levy out drum until he disappears out of Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I agree with you Billy, it’s important we’re highlighting his true failings.
We can’t say he doesn’t spend enough, we do, we spend more than most - the problem is we have zero faaaacking strategy and even less commitment to any one way. I mean Paratici pulled the strings last summer and we signed some excellent players - only for Lange to be given that responsibility this summer and who knows who it will be next summer.
And on this ticket pricing issue, Levy is spot on, UEFA can shove it up their Aris, they won’t be capping the tickets at the final to £30 and they don’t seem to understand the effect away pricing caps have on what are already highly in demand, near faaaacking gold dust tickets.
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All of this is just a consequence of clubs being financially limited by PSR but with the same appetite they had before it was introduced. They're told they can't spend on wages and tranfers because the revenue isn't there so clubs look for marginal gains here, there and everywhere in order to allow them to continue to inflate the market.
Eventually the bubble will burst and PSR will force clubs to lower player wages and that's when we'll be in calmer waters. At the moment, the financial burden is on the fans with decisions like this but eventually even the league's biggest clubs will realise that you can't pay players £300,000 a week if you're only using club revenue alone. It's just completely unsustainable.
Were PSR to continue in its current guise, it'll mean long term there'll probably be a mass exodus of the PL's top talent but it won't get that far. The moment the Premier League realise their crown is slipping, they'll roll back on PSR and relax the rules, leaving sustainably, well-run clubs like Spurs in the shiiiitter.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All of this is just a consequence of clubs being financially limited by PSR but with the same appetite they had before it was introduced. They're told they can't spend on wages and tranfers because the revenue isn't there so clubs look for marginal gains here, there and everywhere in order to allow them to continue to inflate the market.
Eventually the bubble will burst and PSR will force clubs to lower player wages and that's when we'll be in calmer waters. At the moment, the financial burden is on the fans with decisions like this but eventually even the league's biggest clubs will realise that you can't pay players £300,000 a week if you're only using club revenue alone. It's just completely unsustainable.
Were PSR to continue in its current guise, it'll mean long term there'll probably be a mass exodus of the PL's top talent but it won't get that far. The moment the Premier League realise their crown is slipping, they'll roll back on PSR and relax the rules, leaving sustainably, well-run clubs like Spurs in the shiiiitter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, this cap came in years and years ago and had nothing to do with PSR.
It was brought in because fan groups started complaining - particularly the Manchester clubs. Manchester United fans complained about being priced as a category A fixture by virtually, if not every football club in the land - meaning they were always paying top price.
Simultaneously the City fans started complaining - I particularly remember them moaning about paying £65 to watch their side at the Emirates.
As a result the Prem got its quick win by capping these prices.
For fans of lesser supported clubs this was fine - Southampton won’t sell out away allocations for instance.
For fans of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs - this was a death sentence on their chances of getting away tickets unless they were in the top 2000 of the supporter base in terms of loyalty points.
Spurs compounded it further by making people start again with Loyalty points if they switched from a membership to a season ticket - god knows why.
It’s just morons at the top not fully appreciating the consequences of their decisions
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fact is information without emotion.
An opinion is information plus experience.
Ignorance is an opinion lacking information.
Stupidity is an opinion that ignore facts.
I will quite happily challenge anyone displaying the latter 2.
As said, Billly has some genuine gripes and many are justified, based on fact and experience based opinion. But his thoughts shared with us on here also step into those 2 other areas frequently, due to his his blanket hate of all things Levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only highlighted the community as a single point.
You could easily talk about the stadium and how that has boosted our earnings and kept us competitive towards the top of the table
We have not stood still, if we had we'd be shopping in the same bargain buckets as Everton, poorer than West Ham, with a dilapidated small old stadium.
If you go back to our accounts of 16/17 we were in the UCL. It made us £40m in prize money and would have added to our matcday revenue. Matchday revenues were £45m. Commercial was £72m
Jump forward and our revenues are £550m, our matchday is £120m, our commericial is £228m.
TV and Media remains the same over the 2 season at about £150m, and in 22/23 we also made about £50m in UCL prize money....so almost all of that growth is down to massively enhanced revenues due to delivering the stadium
Without these we'd be absolute paupers relative to the big teams we now want to compete with.
I agree that a lot of money has been wasted and that is deserving of huge criticism, along with the decisions on managers and I will and have criticised Levy on these levels.
As for spending, 2016/17 shows player amortisation (basically transfer fees) was at about £42m. That can be taken as an average transfer spend.
Now (22/23) it is £109m.
Wages (players + all staff) were £126m now £250m.
We are able to keep pace with the coat tales of the very biggest and best teams because of this work done by the club and Levy, yet fans demand more and more, while also criticising ticket prices etc
Balance is what i seek in peoples judgement and will push back when opinion ignores facts, because that is stupidity.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only highlighted the community as a single point.
You could easily talk about the stadium and how that has boosted our earnings and kept us competitive towards the top of the table
We have not stood still, if we had we'd be shopping in the same bargain buckets as Everton, poorer than West Ham, with a dilapidated small old stadium.
If you go back to our accounts of 16/17 we were in the UCL. It made us £40m in prize money and would have added to our matcday revenue. Matchday revenues were £45m. Commercial was £72m
Jump forward and our revenues are £550m, our matchday is £120m, our commericial is £228m.
TV and Media remains the same over the 2 season at about £150m, and in 22/23 we also made about £50m in UCL prize money....so almost all of that growth is down to massively enhanced revenues due to delivering the stadium
Without these we'd be absolute paupers relative to the big teams we now want to compete with.
I agree that a lot of money has been wasted and that is deserving of huge criticism, along with the decisions on managers and I will and have criticised Levy on these levels.
As for spending, 2016/17 shows player amortisation (basically transfer fees) was at about £42m. That can be taken as an average transfer spend.
Now (22/23) it is £109m.
Wages (players + all staff) were £126m now £250m.
We are able to keep pace with the coat tales of the very biggest and best teams because of this work done by the club and Levy, yet fans demand more and more, while also criticising ticket prices etc
Balance is what i seek in peoples judgement and will push back when opinion ignores facts, because that is stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree spending isn’t the issue
Strategy and commitment are. Ultimately there are not enough football people at the top of our club.
Levy is commercially a savant. Football wise he is Forrest Gump with a concussion.
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The buck does stop with him, of course, but it's not like we have/had a terrible team of players. "He" has assembled teams good enough to challenge and even get to a CL final. On the day though, it's the players who fell short.
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The buck does stop with him, of course, but it's not like we have/had a terrible team of players. "He" has assembled teams good enough to challenge and even get to a CL final. On the day though, it's the players who fell short.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has also stopped us from being consistent by flip flopping on strategy and style - we went from Poch to Jose, a huge change and a squad that was never in his image and then sacked him 6 days before a cup final - that was without a shadow of a doubt 100% on Levy.
He then hired Nuno - not even close to being good enough
Brings in Conte who gets us to the CL immediately and then didn’t back him the next summer when he asked for Bastoni
Now we have completely changed style again with Ange and have had to completely overhaul the squad again.
We’ve gone through half a dozen DOF - we went from Hitchen to Paratici to Lange in 4 years
Just define a strategy/philosophy - make minor alterations where necessary and stick to it. He can’t though, I bet he gets itchy fingers with Ange in the next 12 months, you can smell it coming
I can totally get why people are fed up...the whole Jam tomorrow thing has been Spurs MO for a decade or more.
I am happy to be patient with this new regime, the new footballing directors, manager, young group of players. because I would rather do that than be miserable about the past.
Some people see everything in the context of the past, so their demand for immediate success is based on the fact that we've been starved of it and are naturally inpatient for it.
I can understand that position, and especially as Spurs are increasingly the butt of many jokes. It hurts but ultimately I just want to enjoy supporting Spurs, in my +40 years of doing so we have never been a serial trophy winners so my expectations have never been centred on that...but it has been far too long and our last 30 years or so (so also preceding ENIC) is an embarrassment.
But all of that should not detract people from thinking that developing a squad takes time, money is not limitless and the path we are on now is 1 year in and is a steady one, not a fast track.
COYS!
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 22 minutes ago
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a proposal where away fans pay at a rate of the cheapest home fan, that's fair and prevents exploitation.
To avoid situations where, say, United away fans always pay Cat.A prices, maybe all away tickets should eb capped at the average cheapest ticket, across all categories.
SO if cheapest home tickets are £45 for Saints, £55 for Newcastle, and £65 for United, then all away fans pay teh average (£55 in this example).
I find it staggering that Spurs fans can go away to Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, United and pay £30 to watch top level football. I can barely get my son in to watch us at home to Ipswich for that money.
So for me its not really about affordability or business ,particularly for away fans, its as much about fairness...why has that guy got the same seat as me and paid less than half? The club will see it as business of course....and fair play to them. We don't have a responsibility to away fans.
lots of failed writers here
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 3 hours, 3 minutes ago
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy to freeze the away prices at £30 but faaaack loyalty points off and make away tickets a ballot.
What you can’t have is the same faces going to every away game because of their loyalty points and then moaning they don’t want to pay more than £30 for the privilege - there are fans behind them in loyalty points willing to pay 2 or 3 times the price - it has to be fair for all
Sign in if you want to comment
Levy
Page 2 of 3
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 22 minutes ago
The Blessed Saint Levy can do no wrong in Devon’s eyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you not just read my criticism of our ticket pricing strategy?
If UEFA want to hold themselves to their own standards then fair play. But they wont, so I object on principle of them dishing out commandments like these. They amore than anyone care more about their bottom line than they do the game.
I also object on the away ticket prices as it does not seem fair that i'm sat here having paid £75 and 5000 gooners or hammers are sat over there having paid £30 each.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by GJ #COYS (U23170)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they go or not is irrelevant - there is such a thing as human compassion for fans that do go. Not everyone is selfish enough to form an opinion on a decision based solely on how it affects them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the owners have done enough to justify it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is also something called running a business
Fans like you calling for massive spending but moaning about ticket prices which, guess what, pay for the massive spending. .
I don't really care about away European fans and how much they pay. Doesn't bother me in the slightest...but you have a good moan about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What massive spending?
posted on 5/9/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the problem with the moral objectors that don’t go to games is they often don’t fully understand the issue.
The tickets for the Roma game will be hard to get I would imagine - if they sell them at £30 and a tenner for kids then demand will be insane and you will have people who go to the a hitter games missing out. If Levy sets them like a Prem game, so £60, then you are back in this absurd position where home fans have paid double that of away fans to watch the same game.
The other issue with capping away tickets is that there are people who buy them just for the sake of the loyalty points without going to the games. If the cap is £30 there will be fans out there who drop £120 to gain potentially 20 loyalty points and not go to the actual game - then when the final comes round they will go if we make it as they have enough loyalty points - it’s a broken system.
Meanwhile, in the final, UEFA set the ticket prices and they sure as schitt won’t be capping it at £30, it will be the usual £60 for cheap seats right up to £300 for the premiums - so it’s double standards from them
posted on 5/9/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by GJ #COYS (U23170)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they go or not is irrelevant - there is such a thing as human compassion for fans that do go. Not everyone is selfish enough to form an opinion on a decision based solely on how it affects them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the owners have done enough to justify it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is also something called running a business
Fans like you calling for massive spending but moaning about ticket prices which, guess what, pay for the massive spending. .
I don't really care about away European fans and how much they pay. Doesn't bother me in the slightest...but you have a good moan about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What massive spending?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let’s not get into this again - we’re consistently in the top 10 in Europe these days for transfer spending.
How we spend and lack of commitment to a strategy is by far the biggest problem on that front.
Solanke was the biggest transfer fee in the Prem for instance - we spend money
posted on 5/9/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
posted on 5/9/24
And the sane thinking of us are sick & tired of Levyshire's constant reaming of Levy's arce crack, when there is absolutely no good reason to.
Tottenham Hotspur football club is going nowhere under Levy & ENIC, and I will continue to bang the Levy out drum until he disappears out of Spurs.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 12 minutes ago
And the sane thinking of us are sick & tired of Levyshire's constant reaming of Levy's arce crack, when there is absolutely no good reason to.
Tottenham Hotspur football club is going nowhere under Levy & ENIC, and I will continue to bang the Levy out drum until he disappears out of Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I agree with you Billy, it’s important we’re highlighting his true failings.
We can’t say he doesn’t spend enough, we do, we spend more than most - the problem is we have zero faaaacking strategy and even less commitment to any one way. I mean Paratici pulled the strings last summer and we signed some excellent players - only for Lange to be given that responsibility this summer and who knows who it will be next summer.
And on this ticket pricing issue, Levy is spot on, UEFA can shove it up their Aris, they won’t be capping the tickets at the final to £30 and they don’t seem to understand the effect away pricing caps have on what are already highly in demand, near faaaacking gold dust tickets.
posted on 5/9/24
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All of this is just a consequence of clubs being financially limited by PSR but with the same appetite they had before it was introduced. They're told they can't spend on wages and tranfers because the revenue isn't there so clubs look for marginal gains here, there and everywhere in order to allow them to continue to inflate the market.
Eventually the bubble will burst and PSR will force clubs to lower player wages and that's when we'll be in calmer waters. At the moment, the financial burden is on the fans with decisions like this but eventually even the league's biggest clubs will realise that you can't pay players £300,000 a week if you're only using club revenue alone. It's just completely unsustainable.
Were PSR to continue in its current guise, it'll mean long term there'll probably be a mass exodus of the PL's top talent but it won't get that far. The moment the Premier League realise their crown is slipping, they'll roll back on PSR and relax the rules, leaving sustainably, well-run clubs like Spurs in the shiiiitter.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 26 minutes ago
With growing inequality you really need limits to be set or people will be priced out from ever watching their sides.
Some people won't care about that but given the roots of football I personally have a problem with a large chunk of society being priced out of watching it (both live and on TV).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s genuinely not the problem here.
If that’s what they are trying to do then why only look at away tickets? Surely caps should be applied to home tickets also?
It’s one of those unintended consequences things - they think they are doing good, meanwhile at the north London derby game Arsenal fans will be paying £30 and Spurs fans £75 to watch the same game travelling similar if not identical distances - it’s half awrsed, half thought through, bollox
I’m all for making football financially more accessible for all - but this isn’t the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All of this is just a consequence of clubs being financially limited by PSR but with the same appetite they had before it was introduced. They're told they can't spend on wages and tranfers because the revenue isn't there so clubs look for marginal gains here, there and everywhere in order to allow them to continue to inflate the market.
Eventually the bubble will burst and PSR will force clubs to lower player wages and that's when we'll be in calmer waters. At the moment, the financial burden is on the fans with decisions like this but eventually even the league's biggest clubs will realise that you can't pay players £300,000 a week if you're only using club revenue alone. It's just completely unsustainable.
Were PSR to continue in its current guise, it'll mean long term there'll probably be a mass exodus of the PL's top talent but it won't get that far. The moment the Premier League realise their crown is slipping, they'll roll back on PSR and relax the rules, leaving sustainably, well-run clubs like Spurs in the shiiiitter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, this cap came in years and years ago and had nothing to do with PSR.
It was brought in because fan groups started complaining - particularly the Manchester clubs. Manchester United fans complained about being priced as a category A fixture by virtually, if not every football club in the land - meaning they were always paying top price.
Simultaneously the City fans started complaining - I particularly remember them moaning about paying £65 to watch their side at the Emirates.
As a result the Prem got its quick win by capping these prices.
For fans of lesser supported clubs this was fine - Southampton won’t sell out away allocations for instance.
For fans of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs - this was a death sentence on their chances of getting away tickets unless they were in the top 2000 of the supporter base in terms of loyalty points.
Spurs compounded it further by making people start again with Loyalty points if they switched from a membership to a season ticket - god knows why.
It’s just morons at the top not fully appreciating the consequences of their decisions
posted on 5/9/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Imagine being disgusted about prices of tickets and pick and mix going up at your local cinema which you never go to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you have be personally affected by something before you can object morally? That's completely absurd. That's like publicly declaring sympathy for the homeless and then being torn apart for not being part of a community you sympathise with.
If everyone had your attitude, there would be no welfare state. Ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the world and social media in particular is full of faux outrage about this that or the other.
You may find the levels of homeless morally unacceptable and a disgrace for a modern wealthy country but if you are not prepared to do anything, then such outrage doesnt ring true.
Go on march, write to your MP, vote according to your principles, volunteer for a charity...fair play to you.
Sit there, behind a phone screen sharing your holier than thou morals with the world while sitting on your butt......the world is full of these virtue signalling frauds.
Billy, i know, despises Levy and there are plenty of good reasons why Levy is open to criticism. But to me it goes beyond reasonable levels of criticism. I dont see him balancing anything he says, no acknowledgement of any positive, including things such as at the community and other work Spurs do (one of the best in the PL in this respect). It's just pure hate and constant criticism. He doesnt balance it, he doesnt do anything about it, so I have little respect for and am quite tired of constant moaning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fact is information without emotion.
An opinion is information plus experience.
Ignorance is an opinion lacking information.
Stupidity is an opinion that ignore facts.
I will quite happily challenge anyone displaying the latter 2.
As said, Billly has some genuine gripes and many are justified, based on fact and experience based opinion. But his thoughts shared with us on here also step into those 2 other areas frequently, due to his his blanket hate of all things Levy.
posted on 5/9/24
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only highlighted the community as a single point.
You could easily talk about the stadium and how that has boosted our earnings and kept us competitive towards the top of the table
We have not stood still, if we had we'd be shopping in the same bargain buckets as Everton, poorer than West Ham, with a dilapidated small old stadium.
If you go back to our accounts of 16/17 we were in the UCL. It made us £40m in prize money and would have added to our matcday revenue. Matchday revenues were £45m. Commercial was £72m
Jump forward and our revenues are £550m, our matchday is £120m, our commericial is £228m.
TV and Media remains the same over the 2 season at about £150m, and in 22/23 we also made about £50m in UCL prize money....so almost all of that growth is down to massively enhanced revenues due to delivering the stadium
Without these we'd be absolute paupers relative to the big teams we now want to compete with.
I agree that a lot of money has been wasted and that is deserving of huge criticism, along with the decisions on managers and I will and have criticised Levy on these levels.
As for spending, 2016/17 shows player amortisation (basically transfer fees) was at about £42m. That can be taken as an average transfer spend.
Now (22/23) it is £109m.
Wages (players + all staff) were £126m now £250m.
We are able to keep pace with the coat tales of the very biggest and best teams because of this work done by the club and Levy, yet fans demand more and more, while also criticising ticket prices etc
Balance is what i seek in peoples judgement and will push back when opinion ignores facts, because that is stupidity.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 17 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that you pull up the positive points within the community that Spurs support on. If you have decided to have an opinion, be that positive or not, on something you've had no hand in, is that then not the same as those of us that choose to have a negative opinion on other issues of varying morality?
This is a discussion forum. If I believe we're short at the left hand side of defence, do I have to offer my services before criticising Levy?
The homeless reference was just an example. You don't have to be proactive in order to have an opinion.
I happen to agree with you on social media's rising number of virtue signallers but that's not what this is about. We can't change Levy's approach. This isn't like government legislation you can easily protest. This is private owner making his own decisions that serve his and other shareholders interests alone. No one else.
Oh, and frankly using the community projects as a stick to beat Billy with regarding balance is frankly ridiculous. We're fans of the football club. We didn't start supporting Spurs because they served the local community in a political and social sense. We just want them to win every Saturday. This is just a cheap tactic to make a rather hollow point. It's actually a little worrying that the first positive you could find about Levy was regarding community projects. All Billy would say to that is that he'd be fine keeping all of that going but maybe, just maybe, the football should be front and centre when it comes to club priorities.
I'm not as one-track minded as Billy on this but I'm certainly nearer to his beliefs than I used to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I only highlighted the community as a single point.
You could easily talk about the stadium and how that has boosted our earnings and kept us competitive towards the top of the table
We have not stood still, if we had we'd be shopping in the same bargain buckets as Everton, poorer than West Ham, with a dilapidated small old stadium.
If you go back to our accounts of 16/17 we were in the UCL. It made us £40m in prize money and would have added to our matcday revenue. Matchday revenues were £45m. Commercial was £72m
Jump forward and our revenues are £550m, our matchday is £120m, our commericial is £228m.
TV and Media remains the same over the 2 season at about £150m, and in 22/23 we also made about £50m in UCL prize money....so almost all of that growth is down to massively enhanced revenues due to delivering the stadium
Without these we'd be absolute paupers relative to the big teams we now want to compete with.
I agree that a lot of money has been wasted and that is deserving of huge criticism, along with the decisions on managers and I will and have criticised Levy on these levels.
As for spending, 2016/17 shows player amortisation (basically transfer fees) was at about £42m. That can be taken as an average transfer spend.
Now (22/23) it is £109m.
Wages (players + all staff) were £126m now £250m.
We are able to keep pace with the coat tales of the very biggest and best teams because of this work done by the club and Levy, yet fans demand more and more, while also criticising ticket prices etc
Balance is what i seek in peoples judgement and will push back when opinion ignores facts, because that is stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree spending isn’t the issue
Strategy and commitment are. Ultimately there are not enough football people at the top of our club.
Levy is commercially a savant. Football wise he is Forrest Gump with a concussion.
posted on 5/9/24
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The buck does stop with him, of course, but it's not like we have/had a terrible team of players. "He" has assembled teams good enough to challenge and even get to a CL final. On the day though, it's the players who fell short.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 5 minutes ago
Overall, Levy has probably done more good for the club, than bad. He's made some very questionable football related decisions but the failings are across the club.
I still think our players and managers get off far too lightly. Ultimately it is they who have to deliver on the pitch. It's their only job and they are paid insane amounts of money to do it. It's not Levy's fault we are failing to beat teams like Leicester.
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As much as I get what you are saying - Levy ultimately runs the club and so the buck stops with him. Brian Clough said that if you sack the manager then you should sack the person who hired him - now I don’t agree with that as we all make mistakes but how many managers has Levy now hired and fired
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The buck does stop with him, of course, but it's not like we have/had a terrible team of players. "He" has assembled teams good enough to challenge and even get to a CL final. On the day though, it's the players who fell short.
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He has also stopped us from being consistent by flip flopping on strategy and style - we went from Poch to Jose, a huge change and a squad that was never in his image and then sacked him 6 days before a cup final - that was without a shadow of a doubt 100% on Levy.
He then hired Nuno - not even close to being good enough
Brings in Conte who gets us to the CL immediately and then didn’t back him the next summer when he asked for Bastoni
Now we have completely changed style again with Ange and have had to completely overhaul the squad again.
We’ve gone through half a dozen DOF - we went from Hitchen to Paratici to Lange in 4 years
Just define a strategy/philosophy - make minor alterations where necessary and stick to it. He can’t though, I bet he gets itchy fingers with Ange in the next 12 months, you can smell it coming
posted on 5/9/24
I can totally get why people are fed up...the whole Jam tomorrow thing has been Spurs MO for a decade or more.
I am happy to be patient with this new regime, the new footballing directors, manager, young group of players. because I would rather do that than be miserable about the past.
Some people see everything in the context of the past, so their demand for immediate success is based on the fact that we've been starved of it and are naturally inpatient for it.
I can understand that position, and especially as Spurs are increasingly the butt of many jokes. It hurts but ultimately I just want to enjoy supporting Spurs, in my +40 years of doing so we have never been a serial trophy winners so my expectations have never been centred on that...but it has been far too long and our last 30 years or so (so also preceding ENIC) is an embarrassment.
But all of that should not detract people from thinking that developing a squad takes time, money is not limitless and the path we are on now is 1 year in and is a steady one, not a fast track.
COYS!
posted on 5/9/24
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
posted on 5/9/24
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 22 minutes ago
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
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I think a proposal where away fans pay at a rate of the cheapest home fan, that's fair and prevents exploitation.
To avoid situations where, say, United away fans always pay Cat.A prices, maybe all away tickets should eb capped at the average cheapest ticket, across all categories.
SO if cheapest home tickets are £45 for Saints, £55 for Newcastle, and £65 for United, then all away fans pay teh average (£55 in this example).
I find it staggering that Spurs fans can go away to Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, United and pay £30 to watch top level football. I can barely get my son in to watch us at home to Ipswich for that money.
So for me its not really about affordability or business ,particularly for away fans, its as much about fairness...why has that guy got the same seat as me and paid less than half? The club will see it as business of course....and fair play to them. We don't have a responsibility to away fans.
posted on 5/9/24
lots of failed writers here
posted on 5/9/24
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 3 hours, 3 minutes ago
I was listening to a Tottenham podcast calling fans who are upset with a potential rise in ticket prices as being silly and moaning about helping the club with more money into the club.
For me it is a slippery slope, if the rule got passed and we slapped every away fan with more fees how long before that is passed to us as Tottenham fans?
We would be paying extra in response from every single away club and then it would just rise and rise because like Liverpool, Arsenal and Yanited we have a huge amount of fans so if one fan is priced out there is always one behind to pay it.
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Happy to freeze the away prices at £30 but faaaack loyalty points off and make away tickets a ballot.
What you can’t have is the same faces going to every away game because of their loyalty points and then moaning they don’t want to pay more than £30 for the privilege - there are fans behind them in loyalty points willing to pay 2 or 3 times the price - it has to be fair for all
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