Never, never, never, never, never.
Arab,
You confidently stated that EtH is Utd's worst manager in our history in a separate thread. However, the unverified win percentages alone contradict that assertion. What metrics did you use to support your statement?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Are you being serious?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s clear that this is a copy and paste job from an X feed. Arab is devoid of original thought.
What metrics did you use to support your statement?
Lowest league position in the PL era
40 points from the last 27 league games
Conceding a fack load of shots by every Tom diiick and harry side
Spent about £600m on players and you can’t even pin point one player that has been a huge success.
Need I go on?
26% - Seven of Erik ten Hag's 27 Premier League defeats came via a 90th minute winner, the highest percentage of defeats to 90th minute goals of any manager to lose 20+ games in Premier League history. Fergietime.
There’s probably a dozen more stats like this from the guy. He had the second highest loss percentage as manager, with Moyes beating him.
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
26% - Seven of Erik ten Hag's 27 Premier League defeats came via a 90th minute winner, the highest percentage of defeats to 90th minute goals of any manager to lose 20+ games in Premier League history. Fergietime.
There’s probably a dozen more stats like this from the guy. He had the second highest loss percentage as manager, with Moyes beating him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
plus he didn’t have Ed Woodward to deal with unlike the others.
He got pretty much every player he wanted and more patience than the others got
In 2023/24 Erik ten Hag equalled the record for the fewest points Manchester United had won after seven Premier League games (9).
In 2024/25, he beat it (8).
comment by Jake Moon
posted 3 minutes ago
What metrics did you use to support your statement?
Lowest league position in the PL era
40 points from the last 27 league games
Conceding a fack load of shots by every Tom diiick and harry side
Spent about £600m on players and you can’t even pin point one player that has been a huge success.
Need I go on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, please do
I didn't realise the season ends in October and that win percentages are overlooked. So why use win percentages as a metric to assess a manager's suitability in the first place if other factors are far more important?
There is minimal correlation between spending and performance when the lack of sporting leadership during much of EtH's tenure is not taken into account. We have wasted money without a long term blueprint for success, merely hoping for the best. A blueprint for long term success is developed by a DoF, not by clowns masquerading as experts. Blaming one person is a fallacy when the club as a whole has been complicit in safeguarding its long term success. It has been noted repeatedly that the ownership viewed United as a cash cow, requiring little on field success to reap the rewards. We are paying the price for past sporting leadership decisions and choosing to blame one individual, despite his win percentages ranking well among his peers, not as low as you confidently asserted.
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
Carrick was only in charge for 3 games and won 2 of them
How do you get 75% from that?
67%(rounded up)
None of them have been amazing obviously but Jose probably the best still and then Ole despite the lack of trophies purely because I enjoyed seeing us look a threat in attack.
The job isn't for the faint hearted and I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the next guy either whoever that may be.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
Ole played a style of football that suited the club and the players already in place. EtH was brought in to transform our playing style from counter attacking to possession based. While we saw glimpses of his intentions, there simply wasn't enough to convince us it would translate into results. If we as fans struggled to believe, you can only imagine how that belief faded in the dressing room. We ended up witnessing half hearted attempts at pressing and a lack of conviction in basic skills like passing accuracy, shot conversion, and tracking opponents.
Belief is one issue, but another is that some players simply weren’t suited to the style we wanted to implement, especially in central midfield and the game as a whole. Regardless of the issues, it's understandable why fans would focus on the costs associated with players EtH was familiar with, especially when they failed to deliver on the pitch. At this level, particularly with a club like Utd, the manager or coach will always be held accountable with fierce and often unfair scrutiny.
comment by funnyoldgame feels twitchy!!! (U17347)
posted 18 minutes ago
Carrick was only in charge for 3 games and won 2 of them
How do you get 75% from that?
67%(rounded up)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the other game was a draw. That's a third of a win.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time we had a season where we didn't have a lot of injuries? It feels to me like we have had more injuries than most teams do for the last decade or so.
In order I'd go
Jose - He still was a big failure and the football was often poor which just shows how sh-t all our managers have been. Seemed to want to get the players to fully understand the magnitude of the club and started off ok but after a certain point under Jose it all goes wrong.
Ole - Brought a lot of optimism, the counter attacking football was enjoyable at times and the fans loved that such a well liked player was in charge but he won nothing ultimately and never seemed to have the skills to be a top manager.
LVG - Those 2 or 3 games near the end of his first season I think many fans were very excited and hoped it would lead to better things but then he just went sh-t in the second season and probably played the worst football to watch under him.
EtH - Won a couple trophies but at no point did it ever look like he knew what he was doing. Also, no charisma whatsoever which made him very hard to like.
Moyes - Rabbit in the headlights, never looked like he knew what he was doing and being the man straight after Ferguson made him look so much worse.
Ragnick, Giggs and Carrick - Can't really judge tbh.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 6 minutes ago
In order I'd go
Jose - He still was a big failure and the football was often poor which just shows how sh-t all our managers have been. Seemed to want to get the players to fully understand the magnitude of the club and started off ok but after a certain point under Jose it all goes wrong.
Ole - Brought a lot of optimism, the counter attacking football was enjoyable at times and the fans loved that such a well liked player was in charge but he won nothing ultimately and never seemed to have the skills to be a top manager.
LVG - Those 2 or 3 games near the end of his first season I think many fans were very excited and hoped it would lead to better things but then he just went sh-t in the second season and probably played the worst football to watch under him.
EtH - Won a couple trophies but at no point did it ever look like he knew what he was doing. Also, no charisma whatsoever which made him very hard to like.
Moyes - Rabbit in the headlights, never looked like he knew what he was doing and being the man straight after Ferguson made him look so much worse.
Ragnick, Giggs and Carrick - Can't really judge tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time we had a season where we didn't have a lot of injuries? It feels to me like we have had more injuries than most teams do for the last decade or so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Last season was something else though.
A DM and a kid playing at CB weeks in a row because we had all five senior CBs out?
No recognised striker fit (unless you count Rashford) for weeks on end. No LB fit for weeks on end.
We've never seen anything like that before.
I'm sure there were other clubs with similarly bad injuries last season though, Chelsea and Newcastle spring to mind. I'm sure with mid season world cup the season before didn't help.
But yeah, injuries have been an issue at the club for far too long.
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They had no right being in charge then
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They had no right being in charge then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They milked the cash cow dry, Sheriff. That was their sole objective. No other club could survive such severe financial exploitation. Successive managerial failure despite the availability of funds, points towards a rudderless operation throwing money around like confetti. Such abuse should be prevented.
Sign in if you want to comment
Michael Carrick
Page 1 of 2
posted on 28/10/24
Are you being serious?
posted on 28/10/24
Never, never, never, never, never.
posted on 28/10/24
Arab,
You confidently stated that EtH is Utd's worst manager in our history in a separate thread. However, the unverified win percentages alone contradict that assertion. What metrics did you use to support your statement?
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Are you being serious?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s clear that this is a copy and paste job from an X feed. Arab is devoid of original thought.
posted on 28/10/24
What metrics did you use to support your statement?
Lowest league position in the PL era
40 points from the last 27 league games
Conceding a fack load of shots by every Tom diiick and harry side
Spent about £600m on players and you can’t even pin point one player that has been a huge success.
Need I go on?
posted on 28/10/24
26% - Seven of Erik ten Hag's 27 Premier League defeats came via a 90th minute winner, the highest percentage of defeats to 90th minute goals of any manager to lose 20+ games in Premier League history. Fergietime.
There’s probably a dozen more stats like this from the guy. He had the second highest loss percentage as manager, with Moyes beating him.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 1 minute ago
26% - Seven of Erik ten Hag's 27 Premier League defeats came via a 90th minute winner, the highest percentage of defeats to 90th minute goals of any manager to lose 20+ games in Premier League history. Fergietime.
There’s probably a dozen more stats like this from the guy. He had the second highest loss percentage as manager, with Moyes beating him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
plus he didn’t have Ed Woodward to deal with unlike the others.
He got pretty much every player he wanted and more patience than the others got
posted on 28/10/24
In 2023/24 Erik ten Hag equalled the record for the fewest points Manchester United had won after seven Premier League games (9).
In 2024/25, he beat it (8).
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Jake Moon
posted 3 minutes ago
What metrics did you use to support your statement?
Lowest league position in the PL era
40 points from the last 27 league games
Conceding a fack load of shots by every Tom diiick and harry side
Spent about £600m on players and you can’t even pin point one player that has been a huge success.
Need I go on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, please do
I didn't realise the season ends in October and that win percentages are overlooked. So why use win percentages as a metric to assess a manager's suitability in the first place if other factors are far more important?
There is minimal correlation between spending and performance when the lack of sporting leadership during much of EtH's tenure is not taken into account. We have wasted money without a long term blueprint for success, merely hoping for the best. A blueprint for long term success is developed by a DoF, not by clowns masquerading as experts. Blaming one person is a fallacy when the club as a whole has been complicit in safeguarding its long term success. It has been noted repeatedly that the ownership viewed United as a cash cow, requiring little on field success to reap the rewards. We are paying the price for past sporting leadership decisions and choosing to blame one individual, despite his win percentages ranking well among his peers, not as low as you confidently asserted.
posted on 28/10/24
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
posted on 28/10/24
Carrick was only in charge for 3 games and won 2 of them
How do you get 75% from that?
67%(rounded up)
posted on 28/10/24
None of them have been amazing obviously but Jose probably the best still and then Ole despite the lack of trophies purely because I enjoyed seeing us look a threat in attack.
The job isn't for the faint hearted and I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the next guy either whoever that may be.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
posted on 28/10/24
Ole played a style of football that suited the club and the players already in place. EtH was brought in to transform our playing style from counter attacking to possession based. While we saw glimpses of his intentions, there simply wasn't enough to convince us it would translate into results. If we as fans struggled to believe, you can only imagine how that belief faded in the dressing room. We ended up witnessing half hearted attempts at pressing and a lack of conviction in basic skills like passing accuracy, shot conversion, and tracking opponents.
Belief is one issue, but another is that some players simply weren’t suited to the style we wanted to implement, especially in central midfield and the game as a whole. Regardless of the issues, it's understandable why fans would focus on the costs associated with players EtH was familiar with, especially when they failed to deliver on the pitch. At this level, particularly with a club like Utd, the manager or coach will always be held accountable with fierce and often unfair scrutiny.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by funnyoldgame feels twitchy!!! (U17347)
posted 18 minutes ago
Carrick was only in charge for 3 games and won 2 of them
How do you get 75% from that?
67%(rounded up)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the other game was a draw. That's a third of a win.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time we had a season where we didn't have a lot of injuries? It feels to me like we have had more injuries than most teams do for the last decade or so.
posted on 28/10/24
In order I'd go
Jose - He still was a big failure and the football was often poor which just shows how sh-t all our managers have been. Seemed to want to get the players to fully understand the magnitude of the club and started off ok but after a certain point under Jose it all goes wrong.
Ole - Brought a lot of optimism, the counter attacking football was enjoyable at times and the fans loved that such a well liked player was in charge but he won nothing ultimately and never seemed to have the skills to be a top manager.
LVG - Those 2 or 3 games near the end of his first season I think many fans were very excited and hoped it would lead to better things but then he just went sh-t in the second season and probably played the worst football to watch under him.
EtH - Won a couple trophies but at no point did it ever look like he knew what he was doing. Also, no charisma whatsoever which made him very hard to like.
Moyes - Rabbit in the headlights, never looked like he knew what he was doing and being the man straight after Ferguson made him look so much worse.
Ragnick, Giggs and Carrick - Can't really judge tbh.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 6 minutes ago
In order I'd go
Jose - He still was a big failure and the football was often poor which just shows how sh-t all our managers have been. Seemed to want to get the players to fully understand the magnitude of the club and started off ok but after a certain point under Jose it all goes wrong.
Ole - Brought a lot of optimism, the counter attacking football was enjoyable at times and the fans loved that such a well liked player was in charge but he won nothing ultimately and never seemed to have the skills to be a top manager.
LVG - Those 2 or 3 games near the end of his first season I think many fans were very excited and hoped it would lead to better things but then he just went sh-t in the second season and probably played the worst football to watch under him.
EtH - Won a couple trophies but at no point did it ever look like he knew what he was doing. Also, no charisma whatsoever which made him very hard to like.
Moyes - Rabbit in the headlights, never looked like he knew what he was doing and being the man straight after Ferguson made him look so much worse.
Ragnick, Giggs and Carrick - Can't really judge tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
posted on 28/10/24
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
ETH > Moyes and Rangnick. I don’t think that can really be up for debate, can it?
Take your pick between ETH and Ole for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole. I think we had nine wins scoring five goals or more under him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were more fun to watch (at least for United fans!) under Ole. It’s just a shame he couldn’t get us over the line with a trophy.
Erik had an insane (I guess you could even call it historic) injury crisis to try to deal with last season, and at least he has started us in the right direction in terms of where we need to go with our football, which Ole certainly didn’t help with (although, in fairness to him, he wasn’t tasked with doing so).
Ask me now, and I’d probably choose Ole. Ask me in three of four seasons’ time and you might get a different answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time we had a season where we didn't have a lot of injuries? It feels to me like we have had more injuries than most teams do for the last decade or so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Last season was something else though.
A DM and a kid playing at CB weeks in a row because we had all five senior CBs out?
No recognised striker fit (unless you count Rashford) for weeks on end. No LB fit for weeks on end.
We've never seen anything like that before.
posted on 28/10/24
I'm sure there were other clubs with similarly bad injuries last season though, Chelsea and Newcastle spring to mind. I'm sure with mid season world cup the season before didn't help.
But yeah, injuries have been an issue at the club for far too long.
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They had no right being in charge then
posted on 28/10/24
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 4 minutes ago
This all started when Fergie was allowed to appoint Moyes
It's your own fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who oversaw the debacle? The clueless American ownership! Allowing our most successful manager to choose his successor demonstrates that the ownership had zero sporting knowledge then or since. The parasites have been the issue since they took control of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They had no right being in charge then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They milked the cash cow dry, Sheriff. That was their sole objective. No other club could survive such severe financial exploitation. Successive managerial failure despite the availability of funds, points towards a rudderless operation throwing money around like confetti. Such abuse should be prevented.
Page 1 of 2