posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
Who is on your list in the current squad of those who will: 1. Flourish 2. Not fit in to the system 3. Not have the right attitude/balls/commitment to make it work.
Every time i watch Amad I am impressed by him and he is certainly one who has the quality and attitude to flourish. What do Utd fans think about where he fits in. Spurs have played wing backs over the years and although its a system i like, i have always thought that it can compromise the wing back if they are a quality attacker. It kinda wastes their ability if they are having to do a lot of tracking back and you could see yesterday a couple balls played in behind Ahmad and in the second half he was more switched on to that but was less effective attack wise. Porro played RWB under Amorim and he's the perfect sort in this position IMO (may be he could be faster). Someone technically good, good defensive instincts but very capable in advanced albeit it not at the level of an out and out winger like Amad. DO you think new wing backs is a key position to fill?
The other thing i feel about the 3 at the back is that fundamentally its a defensive line up and that it is sometimes difficult to get enough players in attacking positions, especially centrally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, it would be easy to roll out the usual suspects of who we think will work out and who won't, but I would rather wait a few months and see what Amorim does with them as a squad, because there are bound to be surprises. I don't see any point on judging from yesterday's game, because it was just one game, and we have generally been poor this season anyhow.
But even this early in the season, Maz seems likely to be player of the season - settled in so well, and with some players, it doesn't matter what system we play, he will fit in.
I don't why, but I have a funny gut feeling that Amorim might turn Malacia into something decent, after all the injury issues - one of those, who would have believed it a year ago etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is obviously the sensible answer; but I didn’t see anything yesterday which immediately changed my initial thoughts about which players might struggle with the system (one way or another).
If we’re going to play the prediction game, which for reasons you’ve given is very much that, I’d still say:
Thrive:
De Ligt
Martinez
Ugarte
Mount
Amad
Bruno
Struggle:
Rashford
Nacho
Zirkzee
Dalot
Eriksen
Miro
Who knows:
Yoro
Maguire (backup to De Ligt at CCB I imagine)
Mazraoui (although he looks so good he could play anywhere)
Kobbie
Hojlund
I’ve left out Shaw and Malacia because who knows how much football they’re ever going to play again, and Antony because he isn’t actually a footballer.
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Robben Amorim (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
Some managers deserve patience. Even if we lost every single game from now to the rest of the season as long as there was a plan that would eventually come to fruition I’m fine with that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Um, a bit far fetched to accept losing every single game for the rest of the season (I mean that would see us relegated), no matter what is being implemented, and I say that as a big Amorim fan. But there needs to be realism about where we are and what needs to be done and how long it will take.
I think Amorim is being both truthful and honest, but it gives him a bit of leeway to maybe progress quicker than expected which isn't bad either. In the short-term I think there will be days when it might click and we think great, but others when it won't work as well, but there will hopefully be a gradual improvement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect (and hope) we are going to see a lot of experimentation with players in the different roles, some of which might be a little left field and confuse/wind up fans and players alike.
But it’s going to be necessary I think. We have a bunch of players who have never played the kind of football we’re going to be playing in their careers, so a lot of this is going to be very new to some of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely - some will adapt very quickly, others need a little more time, and some won't work out at all. Doesn't make any of them bad players, but not every player works out for every manager. But I think there will be surprises both ways in terms of who does work out and who doesn't.
What really excites me about Amorim is that he actually feels like the right guy. ETH was a good solid choice, but whilst I supported him initially, into his second season I just didn't feel he was the right guy - I was hoping he was, but he didn't give me that feeling.
Of course time will tell with Amorim, but I already have more belief in him rather than just hope, and I think the players will feel that too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
At least when Gyokeres joins we’ll score more
Add Nuno Mendes at left wing back and A N Other to partner Ugarte and things will look better
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
We have gone from getting excited about getting the godfather of the geggenpress, the ORIGINAL Klopp when we got Rangnik.
Then we got even more excited about getting the next Guardiola, in Ten Hag.
Now we are getting even further excited after appointing the new........Mourinho.
Our standards are slipping.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
Who is on your list in the current squad of those who will: 1. Flourish 2. Not fit in to the system 3. Not have the right attitude/balls/commitment to make it work.
Every time i watch Amad I am impressed by him and he is certainly one who has the quality and attitude to flourish. What do Utd fans think about where he fits in. Spurs have played wing backs over the years and although its a system i like, i have always thought that it can compromise the wing back if they are a quality attacker. It kinda wastes their ability if they are having to do a lot of tracking back and you could see yesterday a couple balls played in behind Ahmad and in the second half he was more switched on to that but was less effective attack wise. Porro played RWB under Amorim and he's the perfect sort in this position IMO (may be he could be faster). Someone technically good, good defensive instincts but very capable in advanced albeit it not at the level of an out and out winger like Amad. DO you think new wing backs is a key position to fill?
The other thing i feel about the 3 at the back is that fundamentally its a defensive line up and that it is sometimes difficult to get enough players in attacking positions, especially centrally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, it would be easy to roll out the usual suspects of who we think will work out and who won't, but I would rather wait a few months and see what Amorim does with them as a squad, because there are bound to be surprises. I don't see any point on judging from yesterday's game, because it was just one game, and we have generally been poor this season anyhow.
But even this early in the season, Maz seems likely to be player of the season - settled in so well, and with some players, it doesn't matter what system we play, he will fit in.
I don't why, but I have a funny gut feeling that Amorim might turn Malacia into something decent, after all the injury issues - one of those, who would have believed it a year ago etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is obviously the sensible answer; but I didn’t see anything yesterday which immediately changed my initial thoughts about which players might struggle with the system (one way or another).
If we’re going to play the prediction game, which for reasons you’ve given is very much that, I’d still say:
Thrive:
De Ligt
Martinez
Ugarte
Mount
Amad
Bruno
Struggle:
Rashford
Nacho
Zirkzee
Dalot
Eriksen
Miro
Who knows:
Yoro
Maguire (backup to De Ligt at CCB I imagine)
Mazraoui (although he looks so good he could play anywhere)
Kobbie
Hojlund
I’ve left out Shaw and Malacia because who knows how much football they’re ever going to play again, and Antony because he isn’t actually a footballer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll partly play the game - I just feel that anyone young will do well, because Amorim will be able to mould them into what he wants and they will hopefully be keen to learn and be able to pick that up - so hopefully the likes of Yoro, Mainoo and Hojlund can do that.
And if Amorim does prove to be a genius, well maybe he can get something out of Antony .
I also have doubts on Mount - he has lost his spark for a while, I just hope he regains it under Amorim.
But certainly initially, I will remain open-minded about all of them. I just hope we will get a few games this season where it all clicks and our games are actually a joy to watch
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
We have gone from getting excited about getting the godfather of the geggenpress, the ORIGINAL Klopp when we got Rangnik.
Then we got even more excited about getting the next Guardiola, in Ten Hag.
Now we are getting even further excited after appointing the new........Mourinho.
Our standards are slipping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was anyone actually excited about Ralf? I understood the choice, but was never that excited about him. Similar with ETH, I never had a real excitement about him.
People make this comparison with JM, but Amorim is his own man and his team I would hope is more interesting to watch than JM's.
People will react differently to appointments, generally I don't get carried away, but I readily admit to being excited about the Amorim appointment.
Standards have been slipping for a long time, although I'm not sure it relates directly to who we appoint - was anyone genuinely excited when SAF was appointed? Prob not, so oit's just more about how you personally feel at the time
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso. You mention Mount in the midfield two with Ugarte. If that were to happen do you think Mainoo has it in him to play further forward. He has quick feet and nice sharp passing so would it suit him there when we're trying to break teams down?
I do think we need to see more from him from midfield. I know he's young, and can be excused somewhat, but the game does seem to pass him by at times. Hopefully he'll develop though to be the player we all hope he can be. In truth I think he's probably played too much at this stage of his career but that was down to having not much choice IMO.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Robben Amorim (U22716)
posted 18 minutes ago
At least when Gyokeres joins we’ll score more
Add Nuno Mendes at left wing back and A N Other to partner Ugarte and things will look better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuno Mendes is playing every week now and is about to sign up with PSG until 2029.
Him and Gyokeres would cost the best part of £150m between them, and given we’re going to need comfortably five or six players in the summer (I.e. as many as we can possibly sign), I’d suggest that would be rather silly.
Amorim will want the club to buy system players in areas where we have serious deficits, and will be looking for players he can develop towards the 2028 vision anyway.
Gyokeres isn’t that, and there will be cheaper alternatives to Mendes available.
Still think we’ll be in for Fernandez for LWB in the winter unless Shaw or Malacia can get fit and stay fit quickly *and* demonstrate that they can flourish at LWB.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso. You mention Mount in the midfield two with Ugarte. If that were to happen do you think Mainoo has it in him to play further forward. He has quick feet and nice sharp passing so would it suit him there when we're trying to break teams down?
I do think we need to see more from him from midfield. I know he's young, and can be excused somewhat, but the game does seem to pass him by at times. Hopefully he'll develop though to be the player we all hope he can be. In truth I think he's probably played too much at this stage of his career but that was down to having not much choice IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really not sure about Kobbie. He’s supremely talented, which Amorim will be excited about of course, and obviously we all want to see him develop at and start for United.
But he doesn’t have a very obvious role in the system for me. Amorim will want to work on his physicality I think. He’ll need to be quicker, stronger, more urgent and more aggressive.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
I hope you're wrong on Kobbie, Rosso but that is my impression of him too at times. I'm hoping with a better base and more control in our play he'll really come into his own though. There's surely space for talented players like him in modern football. I'd like to think so anyway. Hopefully if we click he won't have to do as much running to close chasms of space in midfield. Still want him to run obviously, of course but in a more controlled way. I hope we'll see quite a different line up midweek and a combination of both at the weekend.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 46 minutes ago
Not that I'm dismissing what Rosso states of course. I know it's a big job. It's just with the big job we can't ignore results in the short term entirely either. Hopefully he'll get us in a good enough shape to give us a good crack at the Europa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you get it Diafol.
I also understand what Rosso is saying... and I agree with him as hes is right and the job in hand for Amorim and INEOS is massive and long term. As it was for Ten Hag. He eventually got the sack by INEOS because the results got that bad that his position finally became untennable as United crept further down the league table. Because meanwhile, United have a football club to run, and there are 70,000 + supporters who have paid a lot of money up front to watch the games United host and many corporate sponsors who have prearranged corporate entertainment plans on match days at Old Trafford to host. And this chit show from United isnt a recent thing it has been going on for years now, and people and supporters are becoming weary of the match day experience they get week in week out at Old Trafford. To say the results over the next couple of seasons now dont /shouldnt matter is madness. They do. Thankfully Amorim and INEOS knows this, too.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping to see Ugarte and Mount in midfield with Rasmus upfront on Thursday.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
Not that I'm dismissing what Rosso states of course. I know it's a big job. It's just with the big job we can't ignore results in the short term entirely either. Hopefully he'll get us in a good enough shape to give us a good crack at the Europa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can and we must. There are no short cuts
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
Good thread Rosso, I was going to do a similar one myself, so this has saved me the bother.
I have already written off the rest of the season as far as expectations go, as to have grandiose ones at this stage would seem to be daft.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so that’s a few weeks’ worth of nightmares sorted Barry, thank you.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
There are some people who are thinking that players dead or dying will come to life. Mount? Bruno? The big picture should be gaping now. No player is getting to his peak after playing so averagely for years. It's literally impossible to flick a switch. If you wanted to "make due" with them then we should have kept Ruud instead. The time is for a revolution. I hate articles like this because we just keep thinking it's tweaks.
We will see by Dec. By April Amorim will hopefully know that we may need to cut our rotten footballing limbs Hoping to fix in betterone.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 43 minutes ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
“ Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. ”
Wouldn’t read much into this, he’s complimented every player he’s been questioned about.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
It is the correct approach for Amorim to go all in with the system/style from the start.
I think it's right is he will need a while to see if some players can work in some roles but for others it should be blindingly obvious.
He can't fail to see what a centre midfielder that's still got his legs could do for that midfield or what a striker that's been clinical elsewhere could do for the attack.
The rest can wait until the summer.
He's going to need reinforcements in January.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 20 minutes ago
There are some people who are thinking that players dead or dying will come to life. Mount? Bruno? The big picture should be gaping now. No player is getting to his peak after playing so averagely for years. It's literally impossible to flick a switch. If you wanted to "make due" with them then we should have kept Ruud instead. The time is for a revolution. I hate articles like this because we just keep thinking it's tweaks.
We will see by Dec. By April Amorim will hopefully know that we may need to cut our rotten footballing limbs Hoping to fix in betterone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole point of the article is that we have wholesale changes to make, that it’s going to be difficult, and that it’s going to take a lot of time, with a lot of patience required. It’s the exact opposite of tweaks.
And I think your thing with Bruno is verging on weird dude. Since he arrived at United *no player in Europe’s top five leagues* has created as many chances as him.
Not De Bruyne, not Saka, not Odegaard, not Gundogan, not Salah, not Griezmann, not Valverde, not Bernardo, not Raphinha or Vini.
And last season again:
https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/bruno-fernandes-the-best-chance-creator-across-european-top-leagues-2023-24
Why are you so determined that he’s the source of all of our problems and is a priority to replace?
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
We've got a lot of exciting young players in the academy. I seriously hope we see some of them over the next 18 months to 2 years.
Under 18 champions and cup winners last year. Absolute monster of a team and those who watch them on MUTV will know. I'd say it's the most talented team we've had since class of 92.
This gives me the biggest amount of hope really as I just still don't fully trust our recruitment process at all. If Zirkzee is someone INEOS team identified then that worries me greatly as he's absolutely crap.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
a striker that's been clinical elsewhere could do for the attack.
-----------
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Page 2 of 5
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
Who is on your list in the current squad of those who will: 1. Flourish 2. Not fit in to the system 3. Not have the right attitude/balls/commitment to make it work.
Every time i watch Amad I am impressed by him and he is certainly one who has the quality and attitude to flourish. What do Utd fans think about where he fits in. Spurs have played wing backs over the years and although its a system i like, i have always thought that it can compromise the wing back if they are a quality attacker. It kinda wastes their ability if they are having to do a lot of tracking back and you could see yesterday a couple balls played in behind Ahmad and in the second half he was more switched on to that but was less effective attack wise. Porro played RWB under Amorim and he's the perfect sort in this position IMO (may be he could be faster). Someone technically good, good defensive instincts but very capable in advanced albeit it not at the level of an out and out winger like Amad. DO you think new wing backs is a key position to fill?
The other thing i feel about the 3 at the back is that fundamentally its a defensive line up and that it is sometimes difficult to get enough players in attacking positions, especially centrally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, it would be easy to roll out the usual suspects of who we think will work out and who won't, but I would rather wait a few months and see what Amorim does with them as a squad, because there are bound to be surprises. I don't see any point on judging from yesterday's game, because it was just one game, and we have generally been poor this season anyhow.
But even this early in the season, Maz seems likely to be player of the season - settled in so well, and with some players, it doesn't matter what system we play, he will fit in.
I don't why, but I have a funny gut feeling that Amorim might turn Malacia into something decent, after all the injury issues - one of those, who would have believed it a year ago etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is obviously the sensible answer; but I didn’t see anything yesterday which immediately changed my initial thoughts about which players might struggle with the system (one way or another).
If we’re going to play the prediction game, which for reasons you’ve given is very much that, I’d still say:
Thrive:
De Ligt
Martinez
Ugarte
Mount
Amad
Bruno
Struggle:
Rashford
Nacho
Zirkzee
Dalot
Eriksen
Miro
Who knows:
Yoro
Maguire (backup to De Ligt at CCB I imagine)
Mazraoui (although he looks so good he could play anywhere)
Kobbie
Hojlund
I’ve left out Shaw and Malacia because who knows how much football they’re ever going to play again, and Antony because he isn’t actually a footballer.
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Robben Amorim (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
Some managers deserve patience. Even if we lost every single game from now to the rest of the season as long as there was a plan that would eventually come to fruition I’m fine with that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Um, a bit far fetched to accept losing every single game for the rest of the season (I mean that would see us relegated), no matter what is being implemented, and I say that as a big Amorim fan. But there needs to be realism about where we are and what needs to be done and how long it will take.
I think Amorim is being both truthful and honest, but it gives him a bit of leeway to maybe progress quicker than expected which isn't bad either. In the short-term I think there will be days when it might click and we think great, but others when it won't work as well, but there will hopefully be a gradual improvement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect (and hope) we are going to see a lot of experimentation with players in the different roles, some of which might be a little left field and confuse/wind up fans and players alike.
But it’s going to be necessary I think. We have a bunch of players who have never played the kind of football we’re going to be playing in their careers, so a lot of this is going to be very new to some of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely - some will adapt very quickly, others need a little more time, and some won't work out at all. Doesn't make any of them bad players, but not every player works out for every manager. But I think there will be surprises both ways in terms of who does work out and who doesn't.
What really excites me about Amorim is that he actually feels like the right guy. ETH was a good solid choice, but whilst I supported him initially, into his second season I just didn't feel he was the right guy - I was hoping he was, but he didn't give me that feeling.
Of course time will tell with Amorim, but I already have more belief in him rather than just hope, and I think the players will feel that too.
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posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
At least when Gyokeres joins we’ll score more
Add Nuno Mendes at left wing back and A N Other to partner Ugarte and things will look better
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
posted 3 days, 22 hours ago
We have gone from getting excited about getting the godfather of the geggenpress, the ORIGINAL Klopp when we got Rangnik.
Then we got even more excited about getting the next Guardiola, in Ten Hag.
Now we are getting even further excited after appointing the new........Mourinho.
Our standards are slipping.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
Who is on your list in the current squad of those who will: 1. Flourish 2. Not fit in to the system 3. Not have the right attitude/balls/commitment to make it work.
Every time i watch Amad I am impressed by him and he is certainly one who has the quality and attitude to flourish. What do Utd fans think about where he fits in. Spurs have played wing backs over the years and although its a system i like, i have always thought that it can compromise the wing back if they are a quality attacker. It kinda wastes their ability if they are having to do a lot of tracking back and you could see yesterday a couple balls played in behind Ahmad and in the second half he was more switched on to that but was less effective attack wise. Porro played RWB under Amorim and he's the perfect sort in this position IMO (may be he could be faster). Someone technically good, good defensive instincts but very capable in advanced albeit it not at the level of an out and out winger like Amad. DO you think new wing backs is a key position to fill?
The other thing i feel about the 3 at the back is that fundamentally its a defensive line up and that it is sometimes difficult to get enough players in attacking positions, especially centrally.
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Honestly, it would be easy to roll out the usual suspects of who we think will work out and who won't, but I would rather wait a few months and see what Amorim does with them as a squad, because there are bound to be surprises. I don't see any point on judging from yesterday's game, because it was just one game, and we have generally been poor this season anyhow.
But even this early in the season, Maz seems likely to be player of the season - settled in so well, and with some players, it doesn't matter what system we play, he will fit in.
I don't why, but I have a funny gut feeling that Amorim might turn Malacia into something decent, after all the injury issues - one of those, who would have believed it a year ago etc
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This is obviously the sensible answer; but I didn’t see anything yesterday which immediately changed my initial thoughts about which players might struggle with the system (one way or another).
If we’re going to play the prediction game, which for reasons you’ve given is very much that, I’d still say:
Thrive:
De Ligt
Martinez
Ugarte
Mount
Amad
Bruno
Struggle:
Rashford
Nacho
Zirkzee
Dalot
Eriksen
Miro
Who knows:
Yoro
Maguire (backup to De Ligt at CCB I imagine)
Mazraoui (although he looks so good he could play anywhere)
Kobbie
Hojlund
I’ve left out Shaw and Malacia because who knows how much football they’re ever going to play again, and Antony because he isn’t actually a footballer.
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I'll partly play the game - I just feel that anyone young will do well, because Amorim will be able to mould them into what he wants and they will hopefully be keen to learn and be able to pick that up - so hopefully the likes of Yoro, Mainoo and Hojlund can do that.
And if Amorim does prove to be a genius, well maybe he can get something out of Antony .
I also have doubts on Mount - he has lost his spark for a while, I just hope he regains it under Amorim.
But certainly initially, I will remain open-minded about all of them. I just hope we will get a few games this season where it all clicks and our games are actually a joy to watch
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
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I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
We have gone from getting excited about getting the godfather of the geggenpress, the ORIGINAL Klopp when we got Rangnik.
Then we got even more excited about getting the next Guardiola, in Ten Hag.
Now we are getting even further excited after appointing the new........Mourinho.
Our standards are slipping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was anyone actually excited about Ralf? I understood the choice, but was never that excited about him. Similar with ETH, I never had a real excitement about him.
People make this comparison with JM, but Amorim is his own man and his team I would hope is more interesting to watch than JM's.
People will react differently to appointments, generally I don't get carried away, but I readily admit to being excited about the Amorim appointment.
Standards have been slipping for a long time, although I'm not sure it relates directly to who we appoint - was anyone genuinely excited when SAF was appointed? Prob not, so oit's just more about how you personally feel at the time
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
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Rosso. You mention Mount in the midfield two with Ugarte. If that were to happen do you think Mainoo has it in him to play further forward. He has quick feet and nice sharp passing so would it suit him there when we're trying to break teams down?
I do think we need to see more from him from midfield. I know he's young, and can be excused somewhat, but the game does seem to pass him by at times. Hopefully he'll develop though to be the player we all hope he can be. In truth I think he's probably played too much at this stage of his career but that was down to having not much choice IMO.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Robben Amorim (U22716)
posted 18 minutes ago
At least when Gyokeres joins we’ll score more
Add Nuno Mendes at left wing back and A N Other to partner Ugarte and things will look better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuno Mendes is playing every week now and is about to sign up with PSG until 2029.
Him and Gyokeres would cost the best part of £150m between them, and given we’re going to need comfortably five or six players in the summer (I.e. as many as we can possibly sign), I’d suggest that would be rather silly.
Amorim will want the club to buy system players in areas where we have serious deficits, and will be looking for players he can develop towards the 2028 vision anyway.
Gyokeres isn’t that, and there will be cheaper alternatives to Mendes available.
Still think we’ll be in for Fernandez for LWB in the winter unless Shaw or Malacia can get fit and stay fit quickly *and* demonstrate that they can flourish at LWB.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso. You mention Mount in the midfield two with Ugarte. If that were to happen do you think Mainoo has it in him to play further forward. He has quick feet and nice sharp passing so would it suit him there when we're trying to break teams down?
I do think we need to see more from him from midfield. I know he's young, and can be excused somewhat, but the game does seem to pass him by at times. Hopefully he'll develop though to be the player we all hope he can be. In truth I think he's probably played too much at this stage of his career but that was down to having not much choice IMO.
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Really not sure about Kobbie. He’s supremely talented, which Amorim will be excited about of course, and obviously we all want to see him develop at and start for United.
But he doesn’t have a very obvious role in the system for me. Amorim will want to work on his physicality I think. He’ll need to be quicker, stronger, more urgent and more aggressive.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
I hope you're wrong on Kobbie, Rosso but that is my impression of him too at times. I'm hoping with a better base and more control in our play he'll really come into his own though. There's surely space for talented players like him in modern football. I'd like to think so anyway. Hopefully if we click he won't have to do as much running to close chasms of space in midfield. Still want him to run obviously, of course but in a more controlled way. I hope we'll see quite a different line up midweek and a combination of both at the weekend.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 46 minutes ago
Not that I'm dismissing what Rosso states of course. I know it's a big job. It's just with the big job we can't ignore results in the short term entirely either. Hopefully he'll get us in a good enough shape to give us a good crack at the Europa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you get it Diafol.
I also understand what Rosso is saying... and I agree with him as hes is right and the job in hand for Amorim and INEOS is massive and long term. As it was for Ten Hag. He eventually got the sack by INEOS because the results got that bad that his position finally became untennable as United crept further down the league table. Because meanwhile, United have a football club to run, and there are 70,000 + supporters who have paid a lot of money up front to watch the games United host and many corporate sponsors who have prearranged corporate entertainment plans on match days at Old Trafford to host. And this chit show from United isnt a recent thing it has been going on for years now, and people and supporters are becoming weary of the match day experience they get week in week out at Old Trafford. To say the results over the next couple of seasons now dont /shouldnt matter is madness. They do. Thankfully Amorim and INEOS knows this, too.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 8 minutes ago
Mason Mount wouldn't thrive under Fergie and Pep. The guy isn't that good and some of our fans think he's going to be world class all of a sudden because we have a new formation. He won't. He will run around a lot and that's about it. His creativity stats at Chelsea were utterly appalling. He was actually better at popping up with goals for Chelsea than he was at making chances
He will be at Westham or somewhere like that within a year or two.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, he was Chelsea’s POTY two years in a row, including the last year they won the CL…
Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. He’s one player who already knows the system, has all the attributes Amorim likes (particularly of an Amorim CM) and can play multiple roles.
If you look at the likes of Bragança and Morita at Sporting, they’re very similar players to Mount, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a fair bit of him at CM next to Ugarte. (If he can stay fit of course, which is the biggest question.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping to see Ugarte and Mount in midfield with Rasmus upfront on Thursday.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
Not that I'm dismissing what Rosso states of course. I know it's a big job. It's just with the big job we can't ignore results in the short term entirely either. Hopefully he'll get us in a good enough shape to give us a good crack at the Europa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can and we must. There are no short cuts
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
Good thread Rosso, I was going to do a similar one myself, so this has saved me the bother.
I have already written off the rest of the season as far as expectations go, as to have grandiose ones at this stage would seem to be daft.
posted 3 days, 21 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so that’s a few weeks’ worth of nightmares sorted Barry, thank you.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
There are some people who are thinking that players dead or dying will come to life. Mount? Bruno? The big picture should be gaping now. No player is getting to his peak after playing so averagely for years. It's literally impossible to flick a switch. If you wanted to "make due" with them then we should have kept Ruud instead. The time is for a revolution. I hate articles like this because we just keep thinking it's tweaks.
We will see by Dec. By April Amorim will hopefully know that we may need to cut our rotten footballing limbs Hoping to fix in betterone.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 43 minutes ago
Should we not expect a manager of Man Utd to show a bit more tactical flexibility than copy, paste, find and replace?
To the extent that we now have Robb saying that we need to use the exact same formation and tactics as Sporting, but not only that, the same players as well.
It would be like Robb getting a new bird, but insisting that his new bird gives him all of her ex's clothes. Then they have to go on holiday to all of the places her and her ex went cos they looked pretty cool on her instagram so Robb wants to do the same. Create identical memories because it looked like a fun relationship they had.
And then they eventually end up sleeping in, not Robb's bed, not Robb's new bird's bed, but in her ex's bed. Robb insisting that they both sneak in there whilst he is asleep.
The final straw is when the ex wakes up, looks up and sees a mirror being held over him. In the reflection is Robb cutting his hair to the exact same style as him, whilst he lay in bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
“ Amorim has already singled him out for praise, and I’m not surprised by that. ”
Wouldn’t read much into this, he’s complimented every player he’s been questioned about.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
It is the correct approach for Amorim to go all in with the system/style from the start.
I think it's right is he will need a while to see if some players can work in some roles but for others it should be blindingly obvious.
He can't fail to see what a centre midfielder that's still got his legs could do for that midfield or what a striker that's been clinical elsewhere could do for the attack.
The rest can wait until the summer.
He's going to need reinforcements in January.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 20 minutes ago
There are some people who are thinking that players dead or dying will come to life. Mount? Bruno? The big picture should be gaping now. No player is getting to his peak after playing so averagely for years. It's literally impossible to flick a switch. If you wanted to "make due" with them then we should have kept Ruud instead. The time is for a revolution. I hate articles like this because we just keep thinking it's tweaks.
We will see by Dec. By April Amorim will hopefully know that we may need to cut our rotten footballing limbs Hoping to fix in betterone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole point of the article is that we have wholesale changes to make, that it’s going to be difficult, and that it’s going to take a lot of time, with a lot of patience required. It’s the exact opposite of tweaks.
And I think your thing with Bruno is verging on weird dude. Since he arrived at United *no player in Europe’s top five leagues* has created as many chances as him.
Not De Bruyne, not Saka, not Odegaard, not Gundogan, not Salah, not Griezmann, not Valverde, not Bernardo, not Raphinha or Vini.
And last season again:
https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/bruno-fernandes-the-best-chance-creator-across-european-top-leagues-2023-24
Why are you so determined that he’s the source of all of our problems and is a priority to replace?
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
We've got a lot of exciting young players in the academy. I seriously hope we see some of them over the next 18 months to 2 years.
Under 18 champions and cup winners last year. Absolute monster of a team and those who watch them on MUTV will know. I'd say it's the most talented team we've had since class of 92.
This gives me the biggest amount of hope really as I just still don't fully trust our recruitment process at all. If Zirkzee is someone INEOS team identified then that worries me greatly as he's absolutely crap.
posted 3 days, 20 hours ago
a striker that's been clinical elsewhere could do for the attack.
-----------
We have one of those?
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