posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a few euros instead, but yeah it’s a very long time since a WC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had one euros on 1996?
I hate the idea of shared tournaments, I could accept sharing it with GB, but we didn’t host 2020, just held some games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still counts, the final was at Wembley
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the west have always been good at talking chit and pointing fingers....we still have all those issues here too.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by HB Fash
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Western double standards are clear. The love of the game is the same the world over, and playing it does not depend on the consumption of alcohol or participation in extracurricular activities. As a matter of interest, there's a growing movement in the West promoting non alcoholic or zero percent alcohol beverages. Through football we should be endorsing a cleaner, more healthier lifestyle. These should be the values at the forefront of driving change. It is possible to enjoy the game as a spectator without the presence of alcohol.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a few euros instead, but yeah it’s a very long time since a WC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had one euros on 1996?
I hate the idea of shared tournaments, I could accept sharing it with GB, but we didn’t host 2020, just held some games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still counts, the final was at Wembley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree, as only Wembley was the only venue. Most people couldn’t get tickets to games, no cities outside of London hosted a thing.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many children in the UK fall victim to murder / abuse / neglect due to the lack of adequate safeguards? This is currently in the news due to the murder of a child.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 17 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s difficult to have a coherent conversation about this issue because Saudi Arabia is a major recipient of UK arms, UK diplomatic support, joint military & RAF training, operational support in its wars (in Yemen for eg), parliamentary support and we have at least 10 personnel (that we know of) embedded in the Saudi National Guard. Saudi Arabia also invests significantly in the UK.
So what are these “Western Values” that are so incompatible with Saudi Arabia if our own governments are, in every conceivable way, complicit in the human rights violations of countries like Saudi Arabia (not to mention our own wars of aggression and so on&hellip?
I’m not a fan of the idea of countries like this hosting these sorts of international events and I agree with criticisms around the issue of sportswashing, but I also cannot see how any serious discussion on the matter can take place without first and foremost addressing our own role in the world as a nation. On human rights & international conduct grounds, we have the least right of anyone in the world other than the US to host international events. Human rights within the UK are drastically superior to inside Saudi, but our conduct outside of our own borders makes Saudi Arabia look like Disneyland.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. The maximum temperature in Riyadh in June is 10C higher than Dallas. The daily mean temperature is 7C higher.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
------------------------------------------------------------
Minor quibble: Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, so it's hard to argue that any laws of the land are 'their choice' - unless we're using the majestic plural to refer to Mohammed bin Salman (the guy who had a critical journalist hacked to death).
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 17 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s difficult to have a coherent conversation about this issue because Saudi Arabia is a major recipient of UK arms, UK diplomatic support, joint military & RAF training, operational support in its wars (in Yemen for eg), parliamentary support and we have at least 10 personnel (that we know of) embedded in the Saudi National Guard. Saudi Arabia also invests significantly in the UK.
So what are these “Western Values” that are so incompatible with Saudi Arabia if our own governments are, in every conceivable way, complicit in the human rights violations of countries like Saudi Arabia (not to mention our own wars of aggression and so on&hellip?
I’m not a fan of the idea of countries like this hosting these sorts of international events and I agree with criticisms around the issue of sportswashing, but I also cannot see how any serious discussion on the matter can take place without first and foremost addressing our own role in the world as a nation. On human rights & international conduct grounds, we have the least right of anyone in the world other than the US to host international events. Human rights within the UK are drastically superior to inside Saudi, but our conduct outside of our own borders makes Saudi Arabia look like Disneyland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny you should say that Berba. I used the exact same argument when people were against the buyout of United of the Glazers from Qatar and were more happy with INEOS.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing they've also included Euro 2028 which is the UK one?
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 minutes ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure this particular line of argument works given that child poverty in Saudi Arabia is likely far greater than in the UK.
All countries have economic issues that result in things like child poverty and such like. There’s no doubt that Saudi’s internal human rights record is awful, and there’s no real comparison between that and our own internal human rights record. Where the discussion does get muddied is as I described several posts back.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
Year
1930 Uruguay
1934 Italy
1938 France
1950 Brazil
1954 Switzerland
1958 Sweden
1962 Chile
1966 England
1970 Mexico
1974 West Germany
1978 Argentina
1982 Spain
1986 Mexico
1990 Italy
1994 United States
1998 France
2002 Japan /South Korea
2006 Germany
2010 South Africa
2014 Brazil
2018 Russia
2022 Qatar
2026 Canada/Mexico/United States
2030 Spain/Portugal/Morocco/(Argentina/Paraguay
/Uruguay) (Centenary Hosts)
2034 Saudi Arabia
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should not be shut down but rather used as an opportunity to highlight that no country is perfect, especially a former coloniser that continues to sell arms to the same regions accused of various breaches. The issue lies with those making ethical arguments who often disregard or remain unaware of their own country’s shortcomings. If they fully understood their own history and actions, they might think twice before making thoughtless, casual comments.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
Berbaking, agree with all you said. I'd add (not contradicting what you said at all) that we are at liberty to wear two hats in this conversation: we can speak as stakeholders in the international footballing community as well as / instead of representatives of our country of citizenship.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should not be shut down but rather used as an opportunity to highlight that no country is perfect, especially a former coloniser that continues to sell arms to the same regions accused of various breaches. The issue lies with those making ethical arguments who often disregard or remain unaware of their own country’s shortcomings. If they fully understood their own history and actions, they might think twice before making thoughtless, casual comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess it's a question of how far we take this and when it's necessary to say it. If someone is grandstanding about the UK and framing it in terms of cultural superiority, sure, maybe worth pointing it out. If someone as a football supporter has issues with executing gay people, stoning women (but not men) to death for adultery, having critical journalists hacked to death, and playing a leading role in thwarting multilateral agreements to limit the effects of the climate crisis, I'm not sure it's always necessary to mention child poverty. Or for instance if someone talks about the evils of the Holocaust, I don't think we need to say yeah, but 4.3 million children in the UK live in relative poverty.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England had six home games and a neutral site venue. It doesn't get any closer to having the advantage of a host nation.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many children in the UK fall victim to murder / abuse / neglect due to the lack of adequate safeguards? This is currently in the news due to the murder of a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but in court the offender will be prosecuted.
In Saudi, the courts actively allow children to get married.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England had six home games and a neutral site venue. It doesn't get any closer to having the advantage of a host nation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not the same as being the host nation. But even if you count that, 1+1 still only adds up to 2.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arizona was snowing the last time I went
Sign in if you want to comment
Saudi Arabia
Page 3 of 6
6
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a few euros instead, but yeah it’s a very long time since a WC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had one euros on 1996?
I hate the idea of shared tournaments, I could accept sharing it with GB, but we didn’t host 2020, just held some games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still counts, the final was at Wembley
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the west have always been good at talking chit and pointing fingers....we still have all those issues here too.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by HB Fash
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Western double standards are clear. The love of the game is the same the world over, and playing it does not depend on the consumption of alcohol or participation in extracurricular activities. As a matter of interest, there's a growing movement in the West promoting non alcoholic or zero percent alcohol beverages. Through football we should be endorsing a cleaner, more healthier lifestyle. These should be the values at the forefront of driving change. It is possible to enjoy the game as a spectator without the presence of alcohol.
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a few euros instead, but yeah it’s a very long time since a WC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had one euros on 1996?
I hate the idea of shared tournaments, I could accept sharing it with GB, but we didn’t host 2020, just held some games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still counts, the final was at Wembley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree, as only Wembley was the only venue. Most people couldn’t get tickets to games, no cities outside of London hosted a thing.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many children in the UK fall victim to murder / abuse / neglect due to the lack of adequate safeguards? This is currently in the news due to the murder of a child.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 17 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s difficult to have a coherent conversation about this issue because Saudi Arabia is a major recipient of UK arms, UK diplomatic support, joint military & RAF training, operational support in its wars (in Yemen for eg), parliamentary support and we have at least 10 personnel (that we know of) embedded in the Saudi National Guard. Saudi Arabia also invests significantly in the UK.
So what are these “Western Values” that are so incompatible with Saudi Arabia if our own governments are, in every conceivable way, complicit in the human rights violations of countries like Saudi Arabia (not to mention our own wars of aggression and so on&hellip?
I’m not a fan of the idea of countries like this hosting these sorts of international events and I agree with criticisms around the issue of sportswashing, but I also cannot see how any serious discussion on the matter can take place without first and foremost addressing our own role in the world as a nation. On human rights & international conduct grounds, we have the least right of anyone in the world other than the US to host international events. Human rights within the UK are drastically superior to inside Saudi, but our conduct outside of our own borders makes Saudi Arabia look like Disneyland.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. The maximum temperature in Riyadh in June is 10C higher than Dallas. The daily mean temperature is 7C higher.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
------------------------------------------------------------
Minor quibble: Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, so it's hard to argue that any laws of the land are 'their choice' - unless we're using the majestic plural to refer to Mohammed bin Salman (the guy who had a critical journalist hacked to death).
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 17 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s difficult to have a coherent conversation about this issue because Saudi Arabia is a major recipient of UK arms, UK diplomatic support, joint military & RAF training, operational support in its wars (in Yemen for eg), parliamentary support and we have at least 10 personnel (that we know of) embedded in the Saudi National Guard. Saudi Arabia also invests significantly in the UK.
So what are these “Western Values” that are so incompatible with Saudi Arabia if our own governments are, in every conceivable way, complicit in the human rights violations of countries like Saudi Arabia (not to mention our own wars of aggression and so on&hellip?
I’m not a fan of the idea of countries like this hosting these sorts of international events and I agree with criticisms around the issue of sportswashing, but I also cannot see how any serious discussion on the matter can take place without first and foremost addressing our own role in the world as a nation. On human rights & international conduct grounds, we have the least right of anyone in the world other than the US to host international events. Human rights within the UK are drastically superior to inside Saudi, but our conduct outside of our own borders makes Saudi Arabia look like Disneyland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny you should say that Berba. I used the exact same argument when people were against the buyout of United of the Glazers from Qatar and were more happy with INEOS.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing they've also included Euro 2028 which is the UK one?
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 3 minutes ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure this particular line of argument works given that child poverty in Saudi Arabia is likely far greater than in the UK.
All countries have economic issues that result in things like child poverty and such like. There’s no doubt that Saudi’s internal human rights record is awful, and there’s no real comparison between that and our own internal human rights record. Where the discussion does get muddied is as I described several posts back.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
Year
1930 Uruguay
1934 Italy
1938 France
1950 Brazil
1954 Switzerland
1958 Sweden
1962 Chile
1966 England
1970 Mexico
1974 West Germany
1978 Argentina
1982 Spain
1986 Mexico
1990 Italy
1994 United States
1998 France
2002 Japan /South Korea
2006 Germany
2010 South Africa
2014 Brazil
2018 Russia
2022 Qatar
2026 Canada/Mexico/United States
2030 Spain/Portugal/Morocco/(Argentina/Paraguay
/Uruguay) (Centenary Hosts)
2034 Saudi Arabia
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should not be shut down but rather used as an opportunity to highlight that no country is perfect, especially a former coloniser that continues to sell arms to the same regions accused of various breaches. The issue lies with those making ethical arguments who often disregard or remain unaware of their own country’s shortcomings. If they fully understood their own history and actions, they might think twice before making thoughtless, casual comments.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
Berbaking, agree with all you said. I'd add (not contradicting what you said at all) that we are at liberty to wear two hats in this conversation: we can speak as stakeholders in the international footballing community as well as / instead of representatives of our country of citizenship.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 minute ago
In the UK 4.3 million children live in "relative poverty." How can we allow such inequality to take hold while taking the moral high ground over the Middle East regarding alleged breaches of safeguards? We simply can't. Our history reveals far greater failures, the stance by some on JA is therefore highly hypothetical and disappointing but not surprising!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use the same reasoning to argue against taking moral positions about anything. In fact, accusation of hypocrisy has become the primary mechanism for shutting down ethical criticism in today's discourse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should not be shut down but rather used as an opportunity to highlight that no country is perfect, especially a former coloniser that continues to sell arms to the same regions accused of various breaches. The issue lies with those making ethical arguments who often disregard or remain unaware of their own country’s shortcomings. If they fully understood their own history and actions, they might think twice before making thoughtless, casual comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess it's a question of how far we take this and when it's necessary to say it. If someone is grandstanding about the UK and framing it in terms of cultural superiority, sure, maybe worth pointing it out. If someone as a football supporter has issues with executing gay people, stoning women (but not men) to death for adultery, having critical journalists hacked to death, and playing a leading role in thwarting multilateral agreements to limit the effects of the climate crisis, I'm not sure it's always necessary to mention child poverty. Or for instance if someone talks about the evils of the Holocaust, I don't think we need to say yeah, but 4.3 million children in the UK live in relative poverty.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England had six home games and a neutral site venue. It doesn't get any closer to having the advantage of a host nation.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t think alcohol is a particularly big issue in isolation, after all you should respect the laws and culture when travelling.
But a lot of their laws simply don’t align with western values, which again, is their choice but such events shouldn’t be held there imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should FIFA cater for Western Values over other values?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fair question. I’d point to their mission statement and values, which include anti discrimination, fair play, child safeguarding and protecting human rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many children in the UK fall victim to murder / abuse / neglect due to the lack of adequate safeguards? This is currently in the news due to the murder of a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but in court the offender will be prosecuted.
In Saudi, the courts actively allow children to get married.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 35 seconds ago
Why is it a disgrace?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest disgrace is that by 2038 the UK will not have held a World Cup for 72 years,
Given that one thing the UK is very good at is hosting these kinds of events.
Sadly the UK isn't good at being as corrupt as FIFA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since England last had it Mexico will have had it three times and the US and Germany will have had it twice. It is rather strange England hasn't had it and don't look like having it soon either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 out of 9 euros softens the blow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 - host nation
2020 - one of 11 host nations
How did you make that add up to three times?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England had six home games and a neutral site venue. It doesn't get any closer to having the advantage of a host nation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not the same as being the host nation. But even if you count that, 1+1 still only adds up to 2.
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 33 seconds ago
whut temps is it in S Arabia in June n Julie?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much warmer than Dallas where the 2026 world cup semi final will be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish. Dallas up to mid 30s average whereas Saudi is into the 40s
Another winter WC beckons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you on about? Dallas tops 100F most days in the summer, it's exceedingly hot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a resident living in Arizona with temps of a 100+ for 140-150 days a year I have concluded most people are just poosies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arizona was snowing the last time I went
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