Most teams have sussed us out and would never allow us to play as Southampton did.
That’s the issue.
At the moment we’re not even good enough to be considered flat track bullies.
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
ie only means anything to the one who is interpreting it his or her way
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
The performances have been overall more poor lately than they were back at the start of the season. How much that is down to the fact we've been losing more players is unclear to me. Unfortunately for us the only 2 good performances and wins in the last 9 games have been against teams in dire form, something that was mirroring the end of last season's form. If we beat any of the next 3 teams it would certainly help buck that trend.
I'm bored of trying to explain the unexplainable
All I know is that we're 10th after 16 Games.
Hope we beat United and possibly win a Trophy. Don't care who the manager is anymore, Hope ENIC strengthen the squad in Jan and we'll see where we are in the summer.
I'm on a one game at a time view. Spending too much time thinking about Spurs is making me as crazy as them
COYS
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm bored of trying to explain the unexplainable
All I know is that we're 10th after 16 Games.
Hope we beat United and possibly win a Trophy. Don't care who the manager is anymore, Hope ENIC strengthen the squad in Jan and we'll see where we are in the summer.
I'm on a one game at a time view. Spending too much time thinking about Spurs is making me as crazy as them
COYS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great comment!
Sensible way to be.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
I hope your win last night means you are back to being terrible on Sunday.
Look at it this way..... Do Forrest have better players than Spurs ?..... Probably not. Are they harder to play against.... almost certainly yes.. They are 4th, we are 10th
I think a lot of it is down to injuries and Ange not being tactically a good enough manager.
City.... 1 win in 11 with 8 Loses. Are teams finding them easy to play against with no Rodri ? Sound familiar ?.... Control the midfield.. control the game... I think this might be part of Spurs problem.... PEH wasn't good enough BUT his role was vital, especially when you have FBs playing as high as they do.... Biss is talented but Lacks discipline and Lolo aint as good as some people make out.
Right now Id commit to Gray playing there, Yes he's young and will make mistakes but he is the future... super smart footballer.. future captain !
This is your future w/Ange, it won't ever evolve beyond the highs getting better & the lows getting worse.
If at some point along the way he decides to do tactics (not just in matches but incorporates it into training), that'll change everything! But I just don't see that happening, he's old & this job is likely to be his zenith, he's got no reason too.
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What i meant by massive was the numbers, not necessarily the game. When we win, apart from Brentford, every win has been by 3 goals or more, and the average scored when we win is 3.85 goals.
We seem to win well or not at all.
That said, i think that United away is a strong result and whatever City's form is that was their first home defeat in nearly 2 years and they were still just a few points off the top at the time.
If you are making the case that we are only beating poor teams, or teams in poor form then that doubly compounds the bizarreness of then losing to teams like Palace and Ipswich who hadnt even won a single game before they played us.
As for the bug games you list, i think we did ok vs Arsenal and NUFC and could and should have come away with something. Those are the games where we need to be more solid and grind. BHA was true bipolar Spurs and in one game highlights the issues. Amazing then awful. Chelsea we were just very poor.
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 23 minutes ago
Look at it this way..... Do Forrest have better players than Spurs ?..... Probably not. Are they harder to play against.... almost certainly yes.. They are 4th, we are 10th
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and yet Forest have let in as many goals as Spurs and scored 15 less.
I think what our extremes of results point to is a more than just being hard to play against. The toughness of the opposition can mean a team that packs the defence and is physical, one that physically over powers you or one that presses aggressively, gives you no time on the ball and picks off your mistakes - the latter is how City have been so successful over the decade. You haven't seen them taking a step back, parking eh bus, packing the defence or midfield. It is risk and reward and what we are seeing now with City is that they do not have the legs and personnel to carry it off so well and now look so open.
I feel that we are suffering in much the same way. We are not carrying off the aggressive pressing well enough and leaving lots of space for the opposition.
For me it comes a bit from the tactics which do seem to be one-size-fits-all. Those who refer to a Plan B imply a completely different tactic to counter the opposition in different circumstances. I believe we just need to learn to be more selective. Learn better when to be full tilt, being more clever in luring opposition into traps, and pouncing on mistakes, knowing when to drop off, knowing when to just keep some possession and control, even if it isnt going anywhere fast, just to take the sting out of games, move the opposition about, tire them out.
There needs to be more subtleties in our play, different speeds, in-game smarts. Not just the "it's what we do mate" style.
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the losses have been by the odd goal, and frankly Spurs could easily have won all those games. Threw away two goal leads against both Brighton and Chelsea. Newcastle match Spurs should have won. Arsenal beat Spurs with a set piece. Only Bournemouth Spurs probably deserved to lose.
Of the wins, winning 4-0 at City and 3-0 at Ubited are not to be dismissed however poor the form of both. Beating Everton, a team that went to the Emirates and drew at the weekend. West Ham is always a banana skin in their cup final.
So just dismissing all the big wins, as if Spurs should routinely be smashing all those teams, whilst saying all the odd goal defeats is a disaster is certainly not a particularly balanced view.
comment by The God Fowler (U2538)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
I hope your win last night means you are back to being terrible on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We probably will be
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 40 minutes ago
This is your future w/Ange, it won't ever evolve beyond the highs getting better & the lows getting worse.
If at some point along the way he decides to do tactics (not just in matches but incorporates it into training), that'll change everything! But I just don't see that happening, he's old & this job is likely to be his zenith, he's got no reason too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
May help if he didn't constantly have to cope with 6-10 players missing for weeks at a time. He cannot really be judged until he has a fully fit squad to pick from, or as near as possible.
The conclusion I would draw is that, aside from a couple of exceptions, we generate wins against sides that open up and struggle against those cute enough to sit deep and counter. Even Arsenal knew that's how you beat this spurs team, even though they've got the players to dominate. Now you could argue it's up to us to finish our chances to nick a goal which then changes the opposition approach but football isn't that simple. The strikers aren't always on it. That goes for any team. At times like that, we need to be more solid and hard to break down.
What the nature of our results tells us is something we already know - Ange only plays one way. If a team does sit in and we struggle there's no plan B to get around it. That's why we continue to reap the same rewards, or lack thereof, from games of a similar profile. Any absence of tactical flexibility must sure mean that the status quo remains the same.
I think it's a worrying trend that we can't deal with the more machiavellian, cute approach to tactics. But then I think good players, top players know how to tweak things on the field to get results. Our lack of leadership often shows. Young heads need guidance and I know you said you don't want this to turn into a hierarchy bashing but I think the progress of the likes of Gray and Bergvall is being hindered by a lack of true professionalism from senior pros, Kulu aside. They're now watching as senior pros make their excuses for loss after loss with the false promise of change. That rubs off. Mentality is massive. The only reason SAF is lauded as much as he is is largely because of the professional standards that were set by the likes of Bryan Robson, Roy Keane etc that than rubbed off onto the academy lads in Neville, Scholes, Giggs who never let standards drop for 20 years. As soon as they left, it all went to shiiiit. I think Ange is looking for something similar. He doesn't get involved in the dressing room too much and he lets the players control it. He wants leaders to develop but it's just not happening because they've not really got that one man to look up to in order to measure against. We really, really need a top class leader in this side to show them the way. To not drop heads when the going gets tough. That's down to the club to put the money up for a proper senior pro.
We often get stuck on Ange's tactics as the problem but I don't think he's the kind of manager that forensically analyses every ball to make sure they're all doing what he wants. He's quite happy for players to evolve during games and manage situations themselves but they're just not doing it. That's part of the problem with having a youthful policy with a manager of this profile. His style is to put the onus on the player to solve but when you've only got young lads to call upon, you're essentially throwing them to the wolves. That's a tough learning curve.
Some of it is tactical but a lot of it is mentality and professionalism and making the right calls on the pitch. I just don't think you can solve that with kids.
Erm, he absolutely can be judged.
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 13 minutes ago
Erm, he absolutely can be judged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who can?
Sign in if you want to comment
Bipolar Spurs
Page 1 of 3
posted on 16/12/24
Most teams have sussed us out and would never allow us to play as Southampton did.
That’s the issue.
posted on 16/12/24
At the moment we’re not even good enough to be considered flat track bullies.
posted on 16/12/24
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
posted on 16/12/24
ie only means anything to the one who is interpreting it his or her way
posted on 16/12/24
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
posted on 16/12/24
The performances have been overall more poor lately than they were back at the start of the season. How much that is down to the fact we've been losing more players is unclear to me. Unfortunately for us the only 2 good performances and wins in the last 9 games have been against teams in dire form, something that was mirroring the end of last season's form. If we beat any of the next 3 teams it would certainly help buck that trend.
posted on 16/12/24
I'm bored of trying to explain the unexplainable
All I know is that we're 10th after 16 Games.
Hope we beat United and possibly win a Trophy. Don't care who the manager is anymore, Hope ENIC strengthen the squad in Jan and we'll see where we are in the summer.
I'm on a one game at a time view. Spending too much time thinking about Spurs is making me as crazy as them
COYS
posted on 16/12/24
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm bored of trying to explain the unexplainable
All I know is that we're 10th after 16 Games.
Hope we beat United and possibly win a Trophy. Don't care who the manager is anymore, Hope ENIC strengthen the squad in Jan and we'll see where we are in the summer.
I'm on a one game at a time view. Spending too much time thinking about Spurs is making me as crazy as them
COYS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great comment!
Sensible way to be.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
posted on 16/12/24
I hope your win last night means you are back to being terrible on Sunday.
posted on 16/12/24
Look at it this way..... Do Forrest have better players than Spurs ?..... Probably not. Are they harder to play against.... almost certainly yes.. They are 4th, we are 10th
posted on 16/12/24
I think a lot of it is down to injuries and Ange not being tactically a good enough manager.
posted on 16/12/24
City.... 1 win in 11 with 8 Loses. Are teams finding them easy to play against with no Rodri ? Sound familiar ?.... Control the midfield.. control the game... I think this might be part of Spurs problem.... PEH wasn't good enough BUT his role was vital, especially when you have FBs playing as high as they do.... Biss is talented but Lacks discipline and Lolo aint as good as some people make out.
Right now Id commit to Gray playing there, Yes he's young and will make mistakes but he is the future... super smart footballer.. future captain !
posted on 16/12/24
This is your future w/Ange, it won't ever evolve beyond the highs getting better & the lows getting worse.
If at some point along the way he decides to do tactics (not just in matches but incorporates it into training), that'll change everything! But I just don't see that happening, he's old & this job is likely to be his zenith, he's got no reason too.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What i meant by massive was the numbers, not necessarily the game. When we win, apart from Brentford, every win has been by 3 goals or more, and the average scored when we win is 3.85 goals.
We seem to win well or not at all.
That said, i think that United away is a strong result and whatever City's form is that was their first home defeat in nearly 2 years and they were still just a few points off the top at the time.
If you are making the case that we are only beating poor teams, or teams in poor form then that doubly compounds the bizarreness of then losing to teams like Palace and Ipswich who hadnt even won a single game before they played us.
As for the bug games you list, i think we did ok vs Arsenal and NUFC and could and should have come away with something. Those are the games where we need to be more solid and grind. BHA was true bipolar Spurs and in one game highlights the issues. Amazing then awful. Chelsea we were just very poor.
posted on 16/12/24
*big
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 23 minutes ago
Look at it this way..... Do Forrest have better players than Spurs ?..... Probably not. Are they harder to play against.... almost certainly yes.. They are 4th, we are 10th
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and yet Forest have let in as many goals as Spurs and scored 15 less.
I think what our extremes of results point to is a more than just being hard to play against. The toughness of the opposition can mean a team that packs the defence and is physical, one that physically over powers you or one that presses aggressively, gives you no time on the ball and picks off your mistakes - the latter is how City have been so successful over the decade. You haven't seen them taking a step back, parking eh bus, packing the defence or midfield. It is risk and reward and what we are seeing now with City is that they do not have the legs and personnel to carry it off so well and now look so open.
I feel that we are suffering in much the same way. We are not carrying off the aggressive pressing well enough and leaving lots of space for the opposition.
For me it comes a bit from the tactics which do seem to be one-size-fits-all. Those who refer to a Plan B imply a completely different tactic to counter the opposition in different circumstances. I believe we just need to learn to be more selective. Learn better when to be full tilt, being more clever in luring opposition into traps, and pouncing on mistakes, knowing when to drop off, knowing when to just keep some possession and control, even if it isnt going anywhere fast, just to take the sting out of games, move the opposition about, tire them out.
There needs to be more subtleties in our play, different speeds, in-game smarts. Not just the "it's what we do mate" style.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 49 seconds ago
Figures are suspect to how you interpret them? Maybe during the wins, Spurs had couple of lucky goals, jammy decisions etc?
And durine one of the losses Spurs suffered a bad decisions, or bad bout of injuries or bad luck?
Looking at the figures in black and white without context, it is upto interpretation!
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Just look at the league table.
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Yes, combine with league places, games players, who played in the games start then flesh out the story and get a picture,
Looking at the side of the building does not necessarity give you the idea of the inside looks like
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Those are the results and the fact is that while context is relevant, the wins are massive wins, not just off the back of a bit of luck.. The losses are too many to be about just luck or injuries or type/quality of opponent.
There is a decent enough sample size of wins and losses to start to draw some conclusions as to what is holding us back from being less bipolar.
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While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Im not sure about your definition of "massive wins"
CITY.... would have been 12 months ago, City & Pep look broken
UNITED..... Stopped playing for ETH and he was fired shortly afterwards
WEST HAM....Look a total mess
EVERTON.... Relegation battlers for the past 5 years
SAINTS.... Championship side
BRENTFORD..... Cant win away from home
I would define the following as massive games as they are against teams either at our level or results against them would show signs of progress....
Brighton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Arsenal & Chelsea.... all losses
I think we are simply too easy to play & score against.... The good teams have done it and the crap ones haven't.
Villa looks like the one quality win this season and sadly I missed it (Ran the NYC marathon).. Typical of my bad luck
I honestly don't know what to think mate.... Trouble is, I'm not sure Ange does either. I just don't think a B/C grade squad is capable of playing the way Ange wants consistently over a 50 odd game schedule at the highest level
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Most of the losses have been by the odd goal, and frankly Spurs could easily have won all those games. Threw away two goal leads against both Brighton and Chelsea. Newcastle match Spurs should have won. Arsenal beat Spurs with a set piece. Only Bournemouth Spurs probably deserved to lose.
Of the wins, winning 4-0 at City and 3-0 at Ubited are not to be dismissed however poor the form of both. Beating Everton, a team that went to the Emirates and drew at the weekend. West Ham is always a banana skin in their cup final.
So just dismissing all the big wins, as if Spurs should routinely be smashing all those teams, whilst saying all the odd goal defeats is a disaster is certainly not a particularly balanced view.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by The God Fowler (U2538)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
I hope your win last night means you are back to being terrible on Sunday.
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We probably will be
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 40 minutes ago
This is your future w/Ange, it won't ever evolve beyond the highs getting better & the lows getting worse.
If at some point along the way he decides to do tactics (not just in matches but incorporates it into training), that'll change everything! But I just don't see that happening, he's old & this job is likely to be his zenith, he's got no reason too.
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May help if he didn't constantly have to cope with 6-10 players missing for weeks at a time. He cannot really be judged until he has a fully fit squad to pick from, or as near as possible.
posted on 16/12/24
The conclusion I would draw is that, aside from a couple of exceptions, we generate wins against sides that open up and struggle against those cute enough to sit deep and counter. Even Arsenal knew that's how you beat this spurs team, even though they've got the players to dominate. Now you could argue it's up to us to finish our chances to nick a goal which then changes the opposition approach but football isn't that simple. The strikers aren't always on it. That goes for any team. At times like that, we need to be more solid and hard to break down.
What the nature of our results tells us is something we already know - Ange only plays one way. If a team does sit in and we struggle there's no plan B to get around it. That's why we continue to reap the same rewards, or lack thereof, from games of a similar profile. Any absence of tactical flexibility must sure mean that the status quo remains the same.
I think it's a worrying trend that we can't deal with the more machiavellian, cute approach to tactics. But then I think good players, top players know how to tweak things on the field to get results. Our lack of leadership often shows. Young heads need guidance and I know you said you don't want this to turn into a hierarchy bashing but I think the progress of the likes of Gray and Bergvall is being hindered by a lack of true professionalism from senior pros, Kulu aside. They're now watching as senior pros make their excuses for loss after loss with the false promise of change. That rubs off. Mentality is massive. The only reason SAF is lauded as much as he is is largely because of the professional standards that were set by the likes of Bryan Robson, Roy Keane etc that than rubbed off onto the academy lads in Neville, Scholes, Giggs who never let standards drop for 20 years. As soon as they left, it all went to shiiiit. I think Ange is looking for something similar. He doesn't get involved in the dressing room too much and he lets the players control it. He wants leaders to develop but it's just not happening because they've not really got that one man to look up to in order to measure against. We really, really need a top class leader in this side to show them the way. To not drop heads when the going gets tough. That's down to the club to put the money up for a proper senior pro.
We often get stuck on Ange's tactics as the problem but I don't think he's the kind of manager that forensically analyses every ball to make sure they're all doing what he wants. He's quite happy for players to evolve during games and manage situations themselves but they're just not doing it. That's part of the problem with having a youthful policy with a manager of this profile. His style is to put the onus on the player to solve but when you've only got young lads to call upon, you're essentially throwing them to the wolves. That's a tough learning curve.
Some of it is tactical but a lot of it is mentality and professionalism and making the right calls on the pitch. I just don't think you can solve that with kids.
posted on 16/12/24
Erm, he absolutely can be judged.
posted on 16/12/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 13 minutes ago
Erm, he absolutely can be judged.
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Who can?
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