I think having a bit more time to coach his ideas into the team will reap rewards. He was really thrown in at the deep end, fixture wise.
Add a couple of good purchases in the January window and we might finally start getting somewhere.
Good comment. Anyone who thinks this is the moment we turned a corner is in for disappointment. Amorim's job isn't a one-off fix that at some point is done and thereafter we're a good team. It's going to be about patient, incremental work on the players' minds, fitness, technique and interconnections. In some matches it will click better than others. Sometimes there will be a setback that triggers bad habits. What we should look out for (and what I expect to see) is a positive trajectory, with bad stuff happening less often, good games / passages of play happening more, and signs of more instinctive execution of team moves.
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair comment. It's what we nearly always managed to do with SAF as boss in terms of showing the same intensity and quality against teams we should be beating.
The next few games in the PL against Southampton, Fulham and Brighton will tell us much more. Do well there and we may be approaching that corner.
I'm glad we've got Arsenal next.
Also glad Amorim has a full week to train them further to his system and develop the players further.
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
The pros and cons of Amorim's system are there for all to see.
When we have our best 11 out and they are all trying good things can/will happen.
Whenever we have to rotate and play likes of Casemiro and Eriksen we get ran through more than a 9orn star on a double shift.
Contrary to what some people in the media think.....this system can definitely work in the PL. We just don't currently have enough quality players, and athletic players too, to make it work week in week out.
I don't want to see any more slow and unathletic players join this team in the next few windows. If we do then that proves this new recruitment team are useless and don't fully grasp what the new manager is trying to do.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. I do think part of this is not only about motivation, but know-how. As others have pointed out, better teams, who are more enterprising in attacking us, can be more vulnerable to being attacked. We pulled off some individual performances where we were able to penetrate Liverpool and City in the past under ETH (and Solskjaer). So while it's indeed crucial to bring a certain level of work-rate, intensity, bravery, etc. to every game we play, I do think we should brace ourselves to expect performances against other teams that look a bit less coherent. As for Arsenal, they are defensively superb / probably the best team in the league out of possession, so I'm preparing myself for a match where we face less joy going forward.
I am hoping he is able to play a more settled starting 11 also. It was necessary initially to mix things up, both for Amorim to see who could do what, and also due to the number of recent fixtures. But he should be more clued up on who he can rely on etc.
Obviously it's still a work in progress, but hopefully we will see gradual improvement.
And as good as yesterday's result and performance was, I can see the media using it as a stick to beat the team with when things don't go quite right.....
I don't think there's much rotation coming for Arsenal game. We have a week to prepare for it again where as they have a semi final this midweek.
My worry is when Europa kicks off again we will see it come back and we just don't have enough players to make it work.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. I do think part of this is not only about motivation, but know-how. As others have pointed out, better teams, who are more enterprising in attacking us, can be more vulnerable to being attacked. We pulled off some individual performances where we were able to penetrate Liverpool and City in the past under ETH (and Solskjaer). So while it's indeed crucial to bring a certain level of work-rate, intensity, bravery, etc. to every game we play, I do think we should brace ourselves to expect performances against other teams that look a bit less coherent. As for Arsenal, they are defensively superb / probably the best team in the league out of possession, so I'm preparing myself for a match where we face less joy going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely agree and btw I'm not saying we'll knock Arsenal out the cup.
We need to accept that we can continue as we did yesterday and still have set backs. The reason I mention mentality and belief in our players is partly to do with that.
After we went to City and beat them (can't remember if it was the very next game) we went to Arsenal and played well, we were well organised, there was a good shape to the side. Ok we didn't score and let in two corners, but other than that we were solid and given where we were under Amorim, there was progress. However the mentality following that game was weak and the next few games we crumbled.
This feels different especially listening to the players. I just want to see that they put in the same performance against the gooners and regardless of the result don't let their heads drop. I have a feeling this time they won't and that belief in what they're being asked to do and keep that intensity going is where they begin to improve.
Correction just looked it up we played Spurs after City in the League Cup. I still think the point stands. The players need to build that belief in themselves and the manager despite the setbacks. Hopefully playing Arsenal next will help them to do that.
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
I also think it was different after the City game, because even though we won, the performance wasn't as taking for me, and City were struggling at the time (and continued to struggle afterwards for a little bit, to put it into context)
This was a Liverpool side on top form and we managed to raise our level to match that. So hopefully it has an effect of boosting our confidence, but the players seem grounded enough to realise there is a long way to go to right the wrongs of past results also.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 20 minutes ago
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Saka either. We have more chance than we did a month ago that's for sure.
If we play with the same attitude as yesterday we have every chance.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 20 minutes ago
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Saka either. We have more chance than we did a month ago that's for sure.
If we play with the same attitude as yesterday we have every chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will you though?
Will you though?
----------------------------------------------------
Didn't the word 'if' indicate it's not a given?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Will you though?
----------------------------------------------------
Didn't the word 'if' indicate it's not a given?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it was a given.
We will find out I suppose.
We didn't play badly at the Emirates 5 weeks ago either tbf. It was a fairly even game in open play but Arsenal absolutely ruined us with set pieces. They never looked liked scoring from open play but then we didn't either to be fair.
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's feeling a bit upset today bless him because we didn't let them run riot for a change.
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is pretty fair to be honest. We generally turn up/raise game against big teams that attack, it suits us. Let’s see if the players are as motivated against lesser teams where the attacking onus is on us.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say you said I said it was a given, and perhaps it was implicit and so my comment was meant to lay emphasis on that. To be or not to be, that is the question.
Missed this earlier.
It was a welcome change, OP!
I felt our defence made a huge difference yesterday. Not convinced on Maguire at all, but the way they played in terms of supporting our midfield and closing the lines yesterday was impressive - given how poor it was against Newcastle.
Dalot did well, and I’d love to see how good that system could do with better players.
Sign in if you want to comment
Looking forward, now the dust has settled..
Page 1 of 2
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I think having a bit more time to coach his ideas into the team will reap rewards. He was really thrown in at the deep end, fixture wise.
Add a couple of good purchases in the January window and we might finally start getting somewhere.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Good comment. Anyone who thinks this is the moment we turned a corner is in for disappointment. Amorim's job isn't a one-off fix that at some point is done and thereafter we're a good team. It's going to be about patient, incremental work on the players' minds, fitness, technique and interconnections. In some matches it will click better than others. Sometimes there will be a setback that triggers bad habits. What we should look out for (and what I expect to see) is a positive trajectory, with bad stuff happening less often, good games / passages of play happening more, and signs of more instinctive execution of team moves.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair comment. It's what we nearly always managed to do with SAF as boss in terms of showing the same intensity and quality against teams we should be beating.
The next few games in the PL against Southampton, Fulham and Brighton will tell us much more. Do well there and we may be approaching that corner.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I'm glad we've got Arsenal next.
Also glad Amorim has a full week to train them further to his system and develop the players further.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
The pros and cons of Amorim's system are there for all to see.
When we have our best 11 out and they are all trying good things can/will happen.
Whenever we have to rotate and play likes of Casemiro and Eriksen we get ran through more than a 9orn star on a double shift.
Contrary to what some people in the media think.....this system can definitely work in the PL. We just don't currently have enough quality players, and athletic players too, to make it work week in week out.
I don't want to see any more slow and unathletic players join this team in the next few windows. If we do then that proves this new recruitment team are useless and don't fully grasp what the new manager is trying to do.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. I do think part of this is not only about motivation, but know-how. As others have pointed out, better teams, who are more enterprising in attacking us, can be more vulnerable to being attacked. We pulled off some individual performances where we were able to penetrate Liverpool and City in the past under ETH (and Solskjaer). So while it's indeed crucial to bring a certain level of work-rate, intensity, bravery, etc. to every game we play, I do think we should brace ourselves to expect performances against other teams that look a bit less coherent. As for Arsenal, they are defensively superb / probably the best team in the league out of possession, so I'm preparing myself for a match where we face less joy going forward.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I am hoping he is able to play a more settled starting 11 also. It was necessary initially to mix things up, both for Amorim to see who could do what, and also due to the number of recent fixtures. But he should be more clued up on who he can rely on etc.
Obviously it's still a work in progress, but hopefully we will see gradual improvement.
And as good as yesterday's result and performance was, I can see the media using it as a stick to beat the team with when things don't go quite right.....
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I don't think there's much rotation coming for Arsenal game. We have a week to prepare for it again where as they have a semi final this midweek.
My worry is when Europa kicks off again we will see it come back and we just don't have enough players to make it work.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 59 seconds ago
Where an individual game can be significant is that the manager can set that as a baseline for expectations. Yesterday he was clearly going to drive home the message that the commitment shown vs Liverpool was the minimum expectation in every match. I thought that was pretty clever: leaning into anger after a good performance rather than a bad one will surely make the message stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why I think it's good to play another top team next.
Hopefully having two games in a row where they have to play at that intensity will build belief and enable him to set that mindset rather than yesterday being another blip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. I do think part of this is not only about motivation, but know-how. As others have pointed out, better teams, who are more enterprising in attacking us, can be more vulnerable to being attacked. We pulled off some individual performances where we were able to penetrate Liverpool and City in the past under ETH (and Solskjaer). So while it's indeed crucial to bring a certain level of work-rate, intensity, bravery, etc. to every game we play, I do think we should brace ourselves to expect performances against other teams that look a bit less coherent. As for Arsenal, they are defensively superb / probably the best team in the league out of possession, so I'm preparing myself for a match where we face less joy going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely agree and btw I'm not saying we'll knock Arsenal out the cup.
We need to accept that we can continue as we did yesterday and still have set backs. The reason I mention mentality and belief in our players is partly to do with that.
After we went to City and beat them (can't remember if it was the very next game) we went to Arsenal and played well, we were well organised, there was a good shape to the side. Ok we didn't score and let in two corners, but other than that we were solid and given where we were under Amorim, there was progress. However the mentality following that game was weak and the next few games we crumbled.
This feels different especially listening to the players. I just want to see that they put in the same performance against the gooners and regardless of the result don't let their heads drop. I have a feeling this time they won't and that belief in what they're being asked to do and keep that intensity going is where they begin to improve.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Correction just looked it up we played Spurs after City in the League Cup. I still think the point stands. The players need to build that belief in themselves and the manager despite the setbacks. Hopefully playing Arsenal next will help them to do that.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I also think it was different after the City game, because even though we won, the performance wasn't as taking for me, and City were struggling at the time (and continued to struggle afterwards for a little bit, to put it into context)
This was a Liverpool side on top form and we managed to raise our level to match that. So hopefully it has an effect of boosting our confidence, but the players seem grounded enough to realise there is a long way to go to right the wrongs of past results also.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 20 minutes ago
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Saka either. We have more chance than we did a month ago that's for sure.
If we play with the same attitude as yesterday we have every chance.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 20 minutes ago
Btw with Newcastle midweek in the semi-final and Spurs a few days after us in the PL, it's not a bad time to be playing Arsenal. Following yesterday we should really be up for this game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Saka either. We have more chance than we did a month ago that's for sure.
If we play with the same attitude as yesterday we have every chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will you though?
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Will you though?
----------------------------------------------------
Didn't the word 'if' indicate it's not a given?
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Will you though?
----------------------------------------------------
Didn't the word 'if' indicate it's not a given?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it was a given.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
We will find out I suppose.
We didn't play badly at the Emirates 5 weeks ago either tbf. It was a fairly even game in open play but Arsenal absolutely ruined us with set pieces. They never looked liked scoring from open play but then we didn't either to be fair.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's feeling a bit upset today bless him because we didn't let them run riot for a change.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
I said this in an article just now, I think you guys were superb yesterday and deserved to take home 3 points, we were very fortunate to come away with 1.
But I don't think it's a sign of a United resurgence, I think it's what you always do, very capable of putting in a good performance against a big side because you have good players.
Show that level of intensity and concentration against Palace, Bournemouth etc, then it's a different story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is pretty fair to be honest. We generally turn up/raise game against big teams that attack, it suits us. Let’s see if the players are as motivated against lesser teams where the attacking onus is on us.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I didn't say you said it was a given. I was pointing out that the question you asked was already implicit in the comment you were responding to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say you said I said it was a given, and perhaps it was implicit and so my comment was meant to lay emphasis on that. To be or not to be, that is the question.
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Missed this earlier.
It was a welcome change, OP!
I felt our defence made a huge difference yesterday. Not convinced on Maguire at all, but the way they played in terms of supporting our midfield and closing the lines yesterday was impressive - given how poor it was against Newcastle.
Dalot did well, and I’d love to see how good that system could do with better players.
Page 1 of 2