posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
Could the Garnacho/Mainoo briefing not also be an attempt to stop them turning into a Rashford problem, too much too young without knowing if they are really all that good.
The talent is undoubted but if as reported Mainoo is asking for 200k a week then making it known you won't be signing that deal and he's available for transfer is a clear signal that players will no longer be taking the pash out of the club.
Want 200k a week, earn it, show you're that level for 2/3 seasons, if not see you later and alleviate the PSR restrictions by selling homegrown.
Same goes for Garnacho, who from the outside looks to have some of the Rashford attitude already.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose here the distinction between global and legacy fans once again becomes meaningful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very much so, but unfortunately it is often the global element that has the louder voice, saturate social media, and thus drive the wider narrative picked up by other media, which the global fan is then far more likely to get behind....and repeat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not if games are played in empty stadiums
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 6 minutes ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's nothing wrong with Mainoo. He's has a quiet season so far, building back from an injury. He's looking like half of the best midfield pairing we currently have at our disposal. And as far as we know relations between the club and player are good. There may be contract discussions, but his current contract doesn't expire for a long time. That's why briefing the press that we'll listen to offers for both players is jarring.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe Elvis is making a broader point rather than appealing for sympathy. We all feel contempt for the way our club has been mismanaged, and so far we haven't sold any of our major homegrown talents. In fact, due to our higher revenues, we might be more immune to this pressure in the long-run than many other clubs. But it is a regrettable side effect if rules intended only to ensure sustainable practices results in far fewer homegrown players turning into legends at their home club.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 46 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot blame anyone but yourselves.
FFP/PSR places greater emphasis on clubs running themselves well, making good football and financial decisions. Utd haven't done this for years and are now paying for it.
Anyway, do you not see it as a positive that Utd are effectively being forced to get their house in order rather than continuing along a wasteful path.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe Elvis is making a broader point rather than appealing for sympathy. We all feel contempt for the way our club has been mismanaged, and so far we haven't sold any of our major homegrown talents. In fact, due to our higher revenues, we might be more immune to this pressure in the long-run than many other clubs. But it is a regrettable side effect if rules intended only to ensure sustainable practices results in far fewer homegrown players turning into legends at their home club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all comes down to timeframe and patience. No one is forcing Utd to sell kids but if they want to fund a fairly quick squad renewal then it's necessary, but that is a choice. May be Project 150 isnt seen as deliverable if you go with a one out one in transfer policy and keep the HG players.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But most teams arent having to sell kids, its just those whose poor financial management and transfer decisions have forced them into considering that choice. PSR just means there are consequences for poor decision making. Blame the decision makers, not the rules!
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think my comment was good enough to quote 3 times tbh
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think my comment was good enough to quote 3 times tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
Joe Hugill has been recalled.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But most teams arent having to sell kids, its just those whose poor financial management and transfer decisions have forced them into considering that choice. PSR just means there are consequences for poor decision making. Blame the decision makers, not the rules!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most clubs are having to be a bit cautious to stay within the rules, and if there's a significant PSR advantage to shipping homegrown players, it won't only be the mismanaged ones that do this. I'm all for PSR creating a sensible baseline, and don't begrudge our club feeling the pain because of leadership negligence. However, I don't think it serves the original purpose of financial sustainability to incentivise flogging homegrown players as a short-cut. The objection is to the specific accounting rules, placing so much more value on revenue from homegrown sales, rather than the principle of accountability. It strikes me that an interpretation that didn't reward these 'pure profit' sales disproportionately would be a tougher regulation. It might also disincentivise reckless transfer investment.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
These are simply 'reports', some speculation etc, which can snowball. I don't think the club are looking to sell any prized assets, especially during a period when we are rebuilding etc. Obviously a different matter if during the rebuild certain players don't meet Amorim's criteria.
There are constant articles about how we are going to do this or that - I would take them all with a pinch of salt, especially the ones that seem really less likely
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he doesn't typically but the timing is questionable at the very least.
Right after the Liverpool game this stuff all drops. It's absolutely pathetic.
And if I'm wrong and it's a club brief after the game then I'm sorry but these operators are total idiots.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
The main thing I've learned from reading this whole thread now, is that Ugarte is only 23
That's great news, don't know why but I thought he was around 28/29.
Turning into a big player for us, hopefully Mainoo is the right partner, or at least a big part of the squad as Amorim seems to want more than 11 important players.
I would be against selling Mainoo/Garnacho purely for financial reasons and becomming a 'Chelsea of the North' but at the same time, if one of them despite being really talented doesn't fit the managers plan/style but are too good (potentially) to sit on the bench most weeks then we would be right to move them on for the good of the whole team.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But at the same time if they are throw-a-way comments i.e. everyone has a price if he fee is enormous then why release the stories in the first place?
They are either exclusives or throwaway comments not to be taken seriously. The journalists know all too well using Kobbie's name was going to get a reaction from the fans.
As I said the fact they decided to release this right after the Liverpool result is very very questionable in my eyes. Almost like admitting "United fans are relatively happy in the last 24hrs.....lets break this hardly news worthy story and stir the pot again.
Ornstein is the one who surprised me the most. This kind of story is usually well beneath him.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
SE85 I go back to questioning how Ornstein could possibly benefit from fabricating something like this. His career relies on 1) good relations with people in the industry who will share information and 2) being trusted by the public. Why risk both of these? Meanwhile, Jamie Jackson at the Guardian (a really bad football writer but undeniably someone with access to the club) has written the same story.
Kinsang, you're probably right that it's easy to over-react, and perhaps I have. I tend to take transfer rumour reporting with a pinch of salt. In this case, my understanding is that the club has intentionally put out a message that the crown jewels of our academy are not off limits to buyers, and gone as far as to reference those two names. So to me the least far-fetched conclusion is that Ineos is seriously evaluating the revenue that star homegrown players can generate.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But at the same time if they are throw-a-way comments i.e. everyone has a price if he fee is enormous then why release the stories in the first place?
They are either exclusives or throwaway comments not to be taken seriously. The journalists know all too well using Kobbie's name was going to get a reaction from the fans.
As I said the fact they decided to release this right after the Liverpool result is very very questionable in my eyes. Almost like admitting "United fans are relatively happy in the last 24hrs.....lets break this hardly news worthy story and stir the pot again.
Ornstein is the one who surprised me the most. This kind of story is usually well beneath him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll be honest, I've not fully read the reports on this, but my feeling is that most reports are probably based on one journalist either finding out something and then the others base their stories on this, but it has the effect of making it feel a lot bigger than what it maybe is.
And in our current situation, the scrutiny on such stories will go into over-drive. It's not a new thing at Utd, stories go about all the time, maybe I'm just the type not to get too agitated by them until there is something more concrete.
I think most of us want the same thing - to develop as many players through the youth system as possible, although even given how well our youth teams are doing, to get even 2 or 3 coming through the ranks to really establish themselves eventually would be great. I think what happened in the days of the Nevilles, Butt, Scholes, Beckham etc was freakishly good.
Alongside that we want to be getting in the best young talent possible. You could argue that's want any fan of any club wants, but there is maybe more onus on a club like ours to have the homegrown talent and incoming young talent approach than certain others.
It's the approach that seems to be endorsed by Ineos and Amorim, so hopefully we will see the fruits of that in the next couple of seasons.
That hopefully includes Mainoo and Garnacho, but they may not fit long-term (which would particularly disappointing with Mainoo)
But 5 years ago, who would have thought the Rashford situation would have turned out the way it has?
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
SE85 I go back to questioning how Ornstein could possibly benefit from fabricating something like this. His career relies on 1) good relations with people in the industry who will share information and 2) being trusted by the public. Why risk both of these? Meanwhile, Jamie Jackson at the Guardian (a really bad football writer but undeniably someone with access to the club) has written the same story.
Kinsang, you're probably right that it's easy to over-react, and perhaps I have. I tend to take transfer rumour reporting with a pinch of salt. In this case, my understanding is that the club has intentionally put out a message that the crown jewels of our academy are not off limits to buyers, and gone as far as to reference those two names. So to me the least far-fetched conclusion is that Ineos is seriously evaluating the revenue that star homegrown players can generate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - honestly, who really knows, but we are all twitchy because of what has happened over the past few years, and it's easy to look negatively on a lot of what happens at the club, because it feels like we have been let down on a regular basis. It could be just pure clumsiness on the part of Ineos - let's face it, a lot of their management decisions, no matter how well intended, have looked clumsy at best in terms of execution.
Sign in if you want to comment
Mainoo and Garnacho for sale
Page 3 of 6
6
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
Could the Garnacho/Mainoo briefing not also be an attempt to stop them turning into a Rashford problem, too much too young without knowing if they are really all that good.
The talent is undoubted but if as reported Mainoo is asking for 200k a week then making it known you won't be signing that deal and he's available for transfer is a clear signal that players will no longer be taking the pash out of the club.
Want 200k a week, earn it, show you're that level for 2/3 seasons, if not see you later and alleviate the PSR restrictions by selling homegrown.
Same goes for Garnacho, who from the outside looks to have some of the Rashford attitude already.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose here the distinction between global and legacy fans once again becomes meaningful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very much so, but unfortunately it is often the global element that has the louder voice, saturate social media, and thus drive the wider narrative picked up by other media, which the global fan is then far more likely to get behind....and repeat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not if games are played in empty stadiums
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 6 minutes ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's nothing wrong with Mainoo. He's has a quiet season so far, building back from an injury. He's looking like half of the best midfield pairing we currently have at our disposal. And as far as we know relations between the club and player are good. There may be contract discussions, but his current contract doesn't expire for a long time. That's why briefing the press that we'll listen to offers for both players is jarring.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe Elvis is making a broader point rather than appealing for sympathy. We all feel contempt for the way our club has been mismanaged, and so far we haven't sold any of our major homegrown talents. In fact, due to our higher revenues, we might be more immune to this pressure in the long-run than many other clubs. But it is a regrettable side effect if rules intended only to ensure sustainable practices results in far fewer homegrown players turning into legends at their home club.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 46 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot blame anyone but yourselves.
FFP/PSR places greater emphasis on clubs running themselves well, making good football and financial decisions. Utd haven't done this for years and are now paying for it.
Anyway, do you not see it as a positive that Utd are effectively being forced to get their house in order rather than continuing along a wasteful path.
posted 1 day, 12 hours ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Calafiori knows how to Partey (U21076)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 44 minutes ago
I really really despise the current FFP rules that push teams to sell their homegrown talent. Something needs to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there would be a lack of sympathy in having spent as much as you have on deadwood that you can't shift. That's why teams are being a lot more cautious and savvy in the transfer market now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe Elvis is making a broader point rather than appealing for sympathy. We all feel contempt for the way our club has been mismanaged, and so far we haven't sold any of our major homegrown talents. In fact, due to our higher revenues, we might be more immune to this pressure in the long-run than many other clubs. But it is a regrettable side effect if rules intended only to ensure sustainable practices results in far fewer homegrown players turning into legends at their home club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all comes down to timeframe and patience. No one is forcing Utd to sell kids but if they want to fund a fairly quick squad renewal then it's necessary, but that is a choice. May be Project 150 isnt seen as deliverable if you go with a one out one in transfer policy and keep the HG players.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But most teams arent having to sell kids, its just those whose poor financial management and transfer decisions have forced them into considering that choice. PSR just means there are consequences for poor decision making. Blame the decision makers, not the rules!
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think my comment was good enough to quote 3 times tbh
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 9 seconds ago
As someone who has barely watched a game outside of Spurs this season - what is wrong with Mainoo? Is this just a pure PSR get-around or is he having a bad season or both?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes been injured recently... but like other young players in this United squad there is no senior mentor playing regularly around him so there is over dependence on him.... and hes trying to fiti to the new system somwhere....and also the SM fan base have been getting on his back a bit for seemingly not progressing fast enough. Same with Hojland and Garnacho really. People in the press will therefore talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think my comment was good enough to quote 3 times tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
Joe Hugill has been recalled.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Devonshire, see my above comment. I really don't think Elvis is talking about United in his remark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But most teams arent having to sell kids, its just those whose poor financial management and transfer decisions have forced them into considering that choice. PSR just means there are consequences for poor decision making. Blame the decision makers, not the rules!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most clubs are having to be a bit cautious to stay within the rules, and if there's a significant PSR advantage to shipping homegrown players, it won't only be the mismanaged ones that do this. I'm all for PSR creating a sensible baseline, and don't begrudge our club feeling the pain because of leadership negligence. However, I don't think it serves the original purpose of financial sustainability to incentivise flogging homegrown players as a short-cut. The objection is to the specific accounting rules, placing so much more value on revenue from homegrown sales, rather than the principle of accountability. It strikes me that an interpretation that didn't reward these 'pure profit' sales disproportionately would be a tougher regulation. It might also disincentivise reckless transfer investment.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
These are simply 'reports', some speculation etc, which can snowball. I don't think the club are looking to sell any prized assets, especially during a period when we are rebuilding etc. Obviously a different matter if during the rebuild certain players don't meet Amorim's criteria.
There are constant articles about how we are going to do this or that - I would take them all with a pinch of salt, especially the ones that seem really less likely
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he doesn't typically but the timing is questionable at the very least.
Right after the Liverpool game this stuff all drops. It's absolutely pathetic.
And if I'm wrong and it's a club brief after the game then I'm sorry but these operators are total idiots.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
The main thing I've learned from reading this whole thread now, is that Ugarte is only 23
That's great news, don't know why but I thought he was around 28/29.
Turning into a big player for us, hopefully Mainoo is the right partner, or at least a big part of the squad as Amorim seems to want more than 11 important players.
I would be against selling Mainoo/Garnacho purely for financial reasons and becomming a 'Chelsea of the North' but at the same time, if one of them despite being really talented doesn't fit the managers plan/style but are too good (potentially) to sit on the bench most weeks then we would be right to move them on for the good of the whole team.
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But at the same time if they are throw-a-way comments i.e. everyone has a price if he fee is enormous then why release the stories in the first place?
They are either exclusives or throwaway comments not to be taken seriously. The journalists know all too well using Kobbie's name was going to get a reaction from the fans.
As I said the fact they decided to release this right after the Liverpool result is very very questionable in my eyes. Almost like admitting "United fans are relatively happy in the last 24hrs.....lets break this hardly news worthy story and stir the pot again.
Ornstein is the one who surprised me the most. This kind of story is usually well beneath him.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
SE85 I go back to questioning how Ornstein could possibly benefit from fabricating something like this. His career relies on 1) good relations with people in the industry who will share information and 2) being trusted by the public. Why risk both of these? Meanwhile, Jamie Jackson at the Guardian (a really bad football writer but undeniably someone with access to the club) has written the same story.
Kinsang, you're probably right that it's easy to over-react, and perhaps I have. I tend to take transfer rumour reporting with a pinch of salt. In this case, my understanding is that the club has intentionally put out a message that the crown jewels of our academy are not off limits to buyers, and gone as far as to reference those two names. So to me the least far-fetched conclusion is that Ineos is seriously evaluating the revenue that star homegrown players can generate.
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 11 minutes ago
The timing of this absolutely stinks of the media stirring the pot to me.
Club is on it's backside and been taking blows all season. We finally have a decent result away to Liverpool and the fans pick the players and fans pick their heads up and then this drops? I'm sorry but it's just too convenient. This is media driven and sadly it works like a charm every time.
I have seen people say it's a club brief. Why would the club brief that on the back of a what was a really good performance and result? They wouldn't want the mood soured so quickly surely?
The media are not our friends. Most of them are absolutely loving our demise and don't even think for a second they're not.
There's also the fact that the Jan window is likely to be incredibly quiet yet again so they need to get their clicks from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ornstein isn't a hack who makes stuff up or attributes unverified gossip to a club. His journalism is full of sentences saying things like "we've seen rumours being reported but I haven't heard anything from my sources". The Athletic also frequently uses phrases such as "according to a club insider speaking on condition of anonymity" but hasn't done that this time. That indicates that Ornstein is saying this came intentionally from the club, rather than a leak, albeit of the record. Why would he attribute this story to the club when it hasn't briefed him? It breaks his journalistic integrity and it also burns his relationship with the club, because they'll be mad if he's reporting something as the club's position if it isn't. And finally, if he's going to risk his reputation and relationships, why do it on a story which is far from a bombshell? "United would in principle sell these two players if a massive offer came in, but aren't actively looking to do so" is a story that has big implications (hence this article) but it's not one that's going to generate massive engagement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's also easy to over-react to such a statement. 'If the price was right' could mean anything, because ultimately every player does have a price, especially if it is a silly one. It's easy to produce what is a fairly vague report which people can react to accordingly without really saying anything substantive. Push the right buttons and people will react accordingly.
Of course on a site like this people will react, but sometimes it is easy to over-read into something also
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But at the same time if they are throw-a-way comments i.e. everyone has a price if he fee is enormous then why release the stories in the first place?
They are either exclusives or throwaway comments not to be taken seriously. The journalists know all too well using Kobbie's name was going to get a reaction from the fans.
As I said the fact they decided to release this right after the Liverpool result is very very questionable in my eyes. Almost like admitting "United fans are relatively happy in the last 24hrs.....lets break this hardly news worthy story and stir the pot again.
Ornstein is the one who surprised me the most. This kind of story is usually well beneath him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll be honest, I've not fully read the reports on this, but my feeling is that most reports are probably based on one journalist either finding out something and then the others base their stories on this, but it has the effect of making it feel a lot bigger than what it maybe is.
And in our current situation, the scrutiny on such stories will go into over-drive. It's not a new thing at Utd, stories go about all the time, maybe I'm just the type not to get too agitated by them until there is something more concrete.
I think most of us want the same thing - to develop as many players through the youth system as possible, although even given how well our youth teams are doing, to get even 2 or 3 coming through the ranks to really establish themselves eventually would be great. I think what happened in the days of the Nevilles, Butt, Scholes, Beckham etc was freakishly good.
Alongside that we want to be getting in the best young talent possible. You could argue that's want any fan of any club wants, but there is maybe more onus on a club like ours to have the homegrown talent and incoming young talent approach than certain others.
It's the approach that seems to be endorsed by Ineos and Amorim, so hopefully we will see the fruits of that in the next couple of seasons.
That hopefully includes Mainoo and Garnacho, but they may not fit long-term (which would particularly disappointing with Mainoo)
But 5 years ago, who would have thought the Rashford situation would have turned out the way it has?
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
SE85 I go back to questioning how Ornstein could possibly benefit from fabricating something like this. His career relies on 1) good relations with people in the industry who will share information and 2) being trusted by the public. Why risk both of these? Meanwhile, Jamie Jackson at the Guardian (a really bad football writer but undeniably someone with access to the club) has written the same story.
Kinsang, you're probably right that it's easy to over-react, and perhaps I have. I tend to take transfer rumour reporting with a pinch of salt. In this case, my understanding is that the club has intentionally put out a message that the crown jewels of our academy are not off limits to buyers, and gone as far as to reference those two names. So to me the least far-fetched conclusion is that Ineos is seriously evaluating the revenue that star homegrown players can generate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR - honestly, who really knows, but we are all twitchy because of what has happened over the past few years, and it's easy to look negatively on a lot of what happens at the club, because it feels like we have been let down on a regular basis. It could be just pure clumsiness on the part of Ineos - let's face it, a lot of their management decisions, no matter how well intended, have looked clumsy at best in terms of execution.
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