Moses, should I feel insulted you ignored me, or assume you have nothing to back up your point with?
---
No, sorry was busy, can't find the links so I'll conceede that point.
---
The only reason you attract big players is because you are in a league where a small club,like Bolton,gets paid over £30million a year in tv money.
--
Well we are obviously not a small club if we are in a league that pays it. We have been there for 10 years and counting and have compared to other clubs have spent very little.
We only have a few high earners e.g. Davies, Jussi and Elmander (who has just left) apart from that most are on probably the same as the celtic players are.
Never answered my question about season tickets. Just told me that you yourself didn't have one.
And your squad will be on more than ours. Don't kid yourself.
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
You sound too deluded to understand.
Bolton = Medium-sized Club with a lot of money.
Celtic and Rangers = Very large clubs with much less money.
Never answered my question about season tickets. Just told me that you yourself didn't have one.
--
Roughly around 13,000 - not a lot but seen as we have six pl clubs in the same area enough.
Whereas Celtic have a whole country to themselves - apart from rangers and you have what 30,000 - 40,000. not a lot.
---
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
--
But the point is - we don't
Bolton play in the middle to bottom league
It's actually 45k but good guess. 13k that's actually less than I thought.
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
--
But the point is - we don't.
------
I thought the point we were talking about was who the bigger club was? Make up your mind silly
Moses -
"Well tbh we would, not exactly a world class league is it....."
Let's examine this a bit shall we.
Let's say...
Bolton move to the SPL this summer. They immediately lose almost their entire squad, and for much less money than they are currently worth - because, as we all know, a player in the EPL is worth exponentially more than an SPL player. Selling someone like Cahill from an SPL club, you would be lucky to get £500,000-£750,000 rather than £20 million.
With few, if any, recognisable players, plus a move to a far away and poorer (in terms of wealth) league, your manager is likely to leave for another, better paying job.
Due to the much longer journeys, Bolton's away support is practically zero. At home, things aren't much better. New squad made up of players the fans haven't heard of and kids, plus a new manager, plus the unpopular move to another league, plus the club has no money, the club's home support dwindles.
A group of hardcore Bolton fans set up a new team to represent the town in the lower leagues of english football, thus supping away the few fans Bolton Wanderers had left.
The team, in complete disarray, manage to survive their first season in the SPL, mainly due to a few veterans staying on, plus the novelty factor of playing an english team blinding some of the lesser lights in the SPL. But in their second season, Bolton's troubles mount - no fans, no players, no TV or gate money. The club are relegated to the First Division and go into administration. The administrator see no way back for the club financially and liquidate it,
Bolton Wanderers FC is no more.
So after all Moses, it would appear you are wrong - Bolton would not walk the SPL.
Btw,
What is Bolton's turnover????
Me thinks that Celtic's-without Sky money-would be as much, if not more.
3 seasons ago; again, with no Sky money, we had the 4th largest turnover in Britain but, did include CL money
west coast don (U5301)
All hypotethical mate.
£500,000 for Cahill, you lot want £10m for Kayal.
If we were to sell all of our players for their fair price;
Cahil - £15m
Lee -£7m
Holden - £5m
Plus a million or two for a few other players.
What can you lot boast.
Titanic, Don, it is at this point, which a light should come on on Moses head.
Good point titanic, I think you might be right regarding the turnover.
Kayal will eventually leave, fair enough. But is be disappointed if he went to Bolton- not a step up in my opinion.
Kayal,Izaguirre,Hooper and Commons would command £25-30million,if they were sold at their fair price,but the difference is we can afford to keep our best players whereas this hypothetical situation where Bolton are in the SPL requires you to sell your best players.
Moses you seem to be jumping between and missing out points.
picky approach. Just admit You were wrong.
Kayal,Izaguirre,Hooper and Commons would command £25-30million,if they were sold at their fair price,but the difference is we can afford to keep our best players whereas this hypothetical situation where Bolton are in the SPL requires you to sell your best players.
--
What league does commons play in now? shows he can't hack it in the premier league. Just a long list of other SPL players who can't make it.
Whereas our players can, thats why they are worth more, Cahill is a full england international as is our captain.
You may have a better attendance than us but you play in a city and a league were the next nearest team has an attendance of 14,000. Ours is around 25,000. We play right next door to a few of the biggest clubs in the world.
HAHA OH GOD I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY...
Moses,
We would like Kayal to stay actually but, if some wee numpty team who play in the Epl; a league that is over a Billion in debt, want him, then yes, considering we have him on a 4 year deal, we'll take your £10m
Again Moses, your moving onto a different point. Are we trying to decide whether Celtic or Bolton are the biggest club, or which team have the best players currently?
Youre not trying to tell me, that a club with 13k season ticket holders (no laughing at the back), who make up the numbers in one of the most cash-rich leagues in the world, are bigger than Celtic or Rangers. Are you trying to argue this point?
Titanic
The guy has an IQ smaller than that of James Beattie's goal return at Mordor,best to leave him...
Whoa whoa whoa, Moses. I'm no celtic fan. Since you claimed up thread you had watched quite a lot of the SPL this season, I assumed you would have some kind of knowledge of Scottish football. Look at my user name (hint: "don" does not signify celtic fan)
Maybe you would get that money if you sold them for a fair price. But if you played in the SPL you wouldn't get a fair price. celtic fans may value Kayal at £10 million, and he may be worth it, but I'd be shocked if they get it.
If Bolton played in the SPL, you would working on the same level as the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen (or lower, if my observations upthread are correct). Hibs star players over the last few years have all sold for £1-2million, with the exception of Scott Brown who went for £4.5million. Aberdeen have only sold Russel Anderson for any decent amount and he went for £1million. Trust me, if any of those players played in the SPL, the would sell for about 5-10% of the values you just mentioned.
Don, the original point I made is that Kayal would not walk into our CURRENT sqaud.
Why would we sell our best players for less than they are worth, it doesn't make sense. Our players are worth what they are because they are that good and have proved it in the premier league and at international level. e.g. Lee is considered the David Beckham of Korea, comerically we will get a lot of money for him.
Our attendance is higher than both Hibs and Aberdeen so we would have more money than them.
Our attendance is higher than both Hibs and Aberdeen so we would have more money than them.
-----
so your admitting not as big as Celtic or rangers?
Just a point, kayal would walk into your midfield. Also, if kayal was playing for a team in the EPL, he'd be valued at c15m. The point don is making is that since he plays in the spl, he will go for less, despite being the same player in both cases.
You ignoring my post or answering it? You seriously arguing your club is larger? As in seriously?
No, your original point was, and I quote, "Well tbh we would, not exactly a world class league is it....."
As for Kayal, I have no idea if he would walk into you current squad as I have practically no idea who plays for you.
You would sell your best players because everyone in our league is skint, and if you came here, so would you be. TV money is a thing we remember from the past - take away Sky's money and where would you be?
You really think you would keep those attendances if you were playing St Mirren and Inverness Caley every week? If you do, I really think you cannot understand the situation I'm suggesting.
You ignoring my post or answering it? You seriously arguing your club is larger? As in seriously?
--
I've never argued that, all I have said is that our current sqaud is better, and that we play in a bigger league.
Your club can be considered big but you play in a poor league.
Some more backtracking for you then Moses. You did argue yous were the bigger club. See evidence below...
Read my post on the article on the Bolton post. It sums it up. Don't try and take comfort, trying to appear like a bigger club than Celtic, or Rangers for that matter.
---
How are we not, our turnovers more, we play in a better league and we have better players.
Remember, our manager turned down your club for us.
------
Round and round and digging and digging. Silly Wanderer
Whos the bigger club?
No contest, its Celtic. Bolton are a small club, in an area with 6 other premier league teams. Celtic are regularly in the champions league and, probably, more well known than Bolton.
Doesn't mean they're better by any means. In terms of squad and management, its a close contest.
but this argument just seems pointless to me.. From what ive seen, Kayal looks like a quality player, maybe as good as holden. in my view a Holden-Kayal partnership would be immense, but to say he would walk into our squad when you admit you don't know most of it is ridiculous.
Sign in if you want to comment
Who writes this nonsense?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 14/6/11
Moses, should I feel insulted you ignored me, or assume you have nothing to back up your point with?
---
No, sorry was busy, can't find the links so I'll conceede that point.
---
The only reason you attract big players is because you are in a league where a small club,like Bolton,gets paid over £30million a year in tv money.
--
Well we are obviously not a small club if we are in a league that pays it. We have been there for 10 years and counting and have compared to other clubs have spent very little.
We only have a few high earners e.g. Davies, Jussi and Elmander (who has just left) apart from that most are on probably the same as the celtic players are.
posted on 14/6/11
Never answered my question about season tickets. Just told me that you yourself didn't have one.
And your squad will be on more than ours. Don't kid yourself.
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
You sound too deluded to understand.
Bolton = Medium-sized Club with a lot of money.
Celtic and Rangers = Very large clubs with much less money.
posted on 14/6/11
Never answered my question about season tickets. Just told me that you yourself didn't have one.
--
Roughly around 13,000 - not a lot but seen as we have six pl clubs in the same area enough.
Whereas Celtic have a whole country to themselves - apart from rangers and you have what 30,000 - 40,000. not a lot.
---
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
--
But the point is - we don't
posted on 14/6/11
Bolton play in the middle to bottom league
posted on 14/6/11
It's actually 45k but good guess. 13k that's actually less than I thought.
If we both played in the same league, and offered the same wage to a player, he would go to Xeltic 95 percent of the time.
--
But the point is - we don't.
------
I thought the point we were talking about was who the bigger club was? Make up your mind silly
posted on 14/6/11
Moses -
"Well tbh we would, not exactly a world class league is it....."
Let's examine this a bit shall we.
Let's say...
Bolton move to the SPL this summer. They immediately lose almost their entire squad, and for much less money than they are currently worth - because, as we all know, a player in the EPL is worth exponentially more than an SPL player. Selling someone like Cahill from an SPL club, you would be lucky to get £500,000-£750,000 rather than £20 million.
With few, if any, recognisable players, plus a move to a far away and poorer (in terms of wealth) league, your manager is likely to leave for another, better paying job.
Due to the much longer journeys, Bolton's away support is practically zero. At home, things aren't much better. New squad made up of players the fans haven't heard of and kids, plus a new manager, plus the unpopular move to another league, plus the club has no money, the club's home support dwindles.
A group of hardcore Bolton fans set up a new team to represent the town in the lower leagues of english football, thus supping away the few fans Bolton Wanderers had left.
The team, in complete disarray, manage to survive their first season in the SPL, mainly due to a few veterans staying on, plus the novelty factor of playing an english team blinding some of the lesser lights in the SPL. But in their second season, Bolton's troubles mount - no fans, no players, no TV or gate money. The club are relegated to the First Division and go into administration. The administrator see no way back for the club financially and liquidate it,
Bolton Wanderers FC is no more.
So after all Moses, it would appear you are wrong - Bolton would not walk the SPL.
posted on 14/6/11
Btw,
What is Bolton's turnover????
Me thinks that Celtic's-without Sky money-would be as much, if not more.
3 seasons ago; again, with no Sky money, we had the 4th largest turnover in Britain but, did include CL money
posted on 14/6/11
west coast don (U5301)
All hypotethical mate.
£500,000 for Cahill, you lot want £10m for Kayal.
If we were to sell all of our players for their fair price;
Cahil - £15m
Lee -£7m
Holden - £5m
Plus a million or two for a few other players.
What can you lot boast.
posted on 14/6/11
Titanic, Don, it is at this point, which a light should come on on Moses head.
Good point titanic, I think you might be right regarding the turnover.
Kayal will eventually leave, fair enough. But is be disappointed if he went to Bolton- not a step up in my opinion.
posted on 14/6/11
Kayal,Izaguirre,Hooper and Commons would command £25-30million,if they were sold at their fair price,but the difference is we can afford to keep our best players whereas this hypothetical situation where Bolton are in the SPL requires you to sell your best players.
posted on 14/6/11
Moses you seem to be jumping between and missing out points.
picky approach. Just admit You were wrong.
posted on 14/6/11
Kayal,Izaguirre,Hooper and Commons would command £25-30million,if they were sold at their fair price,but the difference is we can afford to keep our best players whereas this hypothetical situation where Bolton are in the SPL requires you to sell your best players.
--
What league does commons play in now? shows he can't hack it in the premier league. Just a long list of other SPL players who can't make it.
Whereas our players can, thats why they are worth more, Cahill is a full england international as is our captain.
You may have a better attendance than us but you play in a city and a league were the next nearest team has an attendance of 14,000. Ours is around 25,000. We play right next door to a few of the biggest clubs in the world.
posted on 14/6/11
HAHA OH GOD I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY...
posted on 14/6/11
Moses,
We would like Kayal to stay actually but, if some wee numpty team who play in the Epl; a league that is over a Billion in debt, want him, then yes, considering we have him on a 4 year deal, we'll take your £10m
posted on 14/6/11
Again Moses, your moving onto a different point. Are we trying to decide whether Celtic or Bolton are the biggest club, or which team have the best players currently?
Youre not trying to tell me, that a club with 13k season ticket holders (no laughing at the back), who make up the numbers in one of the most cash-rich leagues in the world, are bigger than Celtic or Rangers. Are you trying to argue this point?
posted on 14/6/11
Titanic
The guy has an IQ smaller than that of James Beattie's goal return at Mordor,best to leave him...
posted on 14/6/11
Whoa whoa whoa, Moses. I'm no celtic fan. Since you claimed up thread you had watched quite a lot of the SPL this season, I assumed you would have some kind of knowledge of Scottish football. Look at my user name (hint: "don" does not signify celtic fan)
Maybe you would get that money if you sold them for a fair price. But if you played in the SPL you wouldn't get a fair price. celtic fans may value Kayal at £10 million, and he may be worth it, but I'd be shocked if they get it.
If Bolton played in the SPL, you would working on the same level as the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen (or lower, if my observations upthread are correct). Hibs star players over the last few years have all sold for £1-2million, with the exception of Scott Brown who went for £4.5million. Aberdeen have only sold Russel Anderson for any decent amount and he went for £1million. Trust me, if any of those players played in the SPL, the would sell for about 5-10% of the values you just mentioned.
posted on 14/6/11
Don, the original point I made is that Kayal would not walk into our CURRENT sqaud.
Why would we sell our best players for less than they are worth, it doesn't make sense. Our players are worth what they are because they are that good and have proved it in the premier league and at international level. e.g. Lee is considered the David Beckham of Korea, comerically we will get a lot of money for him.
Our attendance is higher than both Hibs and Aberdeen so we would have more money than them.
posted on 14/6/11
Aye he would
posted on 14/6/11
Our attendance is higher than both Hibs and Aberdeen so we would have more money than them.
-----
so your admitting not as big as Celtic or rangers?
Just a point, kayal would walk into your midfield. Also, if kayal was playing for a team in the EPL, he'd be valued at c15m. The point don is making is that since he plays in the spl, he will go for less, despite being the same player in both cases.
You ignoring my post or answering it? You seriously arguing your club is larger? As in seriously?
posted on 14/6/11
No, your original point was, and I quote, "Well tbh we would, not exactly a world class league is it....."
As for Kayal, I have no idea if he would walk into you current squad as I have practically no idea who plays for you.
You would sell your best players because everyone in our league is skint, and if you came here, so would you be. TV money is a thing we remember from the past - take away Sky's money and where would you be?
You really think you would keep those attendances if you were playing St Mirren and Inverness Caley every week? If you do, I really think you cannot understand the situation I'm suggesting.
posted on 14/6/11
You ignoring my post or answering it? You seriously arguing your club is larger? As in seriously?
--
I've never argued that, all I have said is that our current sqaud is better, and that we play in a bigger league.
Your club can be considered big but you play in a poor league.
posted on 14/6/11
Some more backtracking for you then Moses. You did argue yous were the bigger club. See evidence below...
Read my post on the article on the Bolton post. It sums it up. Don't try and take comfort, trying to appear like a bigger club than Celtic, or Rangers for that matter.
---
How are we not, our turnovers more, we play in a better league and we have better players.
Remember, our manager turned down your club for us.
------
Round and round and digging and digging. Silly Wanderer
posted on 15/6/11
Whos the bigger club?
No contest, its Celtic. Bolton are a small club, in an area with 6 other premier league teams. Celtic are regularly in the champions league and, probably, more well known than Bolton.
Doesn't mean they're better by any means. In terms of squad and management, its a close contest.
but this argument just seems pointless to me.. From what ive seen, Kayal looks like a quality player, maybe as good as holden. in my view a Holden-Kayal partnership would be immense, but to say he would walk into our squad when you admit you don't know most of it is ridiculous.
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