You are entitled to your opinion.
Blake: my guess because he is onnext to nothing, and he is mentoring Mark Davies and has the entire time he's been there, obviously Coyle sees that as important, plus so our squad was not as depleted in the summer.
No-one offered enough money for Cahill, offers never reached double figures, if you had a car worth £4k, and you were offered £1.9k, is that a fair deal? No and neither was What Arsenal and Spurs offered. Considering how poor our defence is I'd rather keep him and let him go for free.
We can't defend because we currently have the two worst full backs in the premier league in our 1st 11, if it wasn't for injury we would be doing ok, Having to play Steinsson, 4th choice and Robbo 3rd choice, both slow and positionally inept means more often than not us conceding is their fault. Add into mix when Knight was playing and we had the worst defence in the league. It's not solid enough, yet look how much better it was when Boyata played, or Gardner.
We signed Tuncay because weneeded players, he's obviously not showed what's he capable of I'm training yet, if you don't train well then you don't play.
Because Robbo is earning a decent wage we need to sell him first, ww signed Alonso but last season he was being introduced slowly, this season he would have taken over had it not been for injury.
Matt Taylor has been poor for the last 2 seasons, he was simply awful, he was one of our top earner and he wasn't even a guaranteed starter, Eagles is a better player than Taylor, Taylor isn't even getting in a championship side now.
Cant muster attacks or pass because confidence is low, after the run of fixtures they hadthey were always going to be on the floor confidence wise. It takes time to gather confidence, it's so fickle right now that even the slightest referring decision can send it right back
down.
We are missing Holden for sure, he makes us tick, he's the complete box to box midfielder and taking a superstar out of any line up is gonna have an effect. But were also missing Lee, Ricketts, Alonso, Boyata, Mears, that means we are missing our two best players and the two that make things happen and two players that would sure up the defence.
I beg to differ Coyle has madedecent signings, however with the opposition we've been against and confidence so low, players are performing well below what they are capable of, it doesn't help when you defending well, and then fall apart after Boyata gets injured, or Gardner or Wheater gets sent off.
I've answered all your questions, I haven't clutched at straws with anything, I've merely given you reasons. I hope this makes you feel better we know the roots of the problems.
All valid points petrover...
All bar eagles, i actually rate him a bit...hes not scared to run at defenders, he seems to have a bit of 'fight' in him...hes just a little lightweight.
HOLDEN i agree totally with what you said,we also had clattenberg ,1 player sent off 1 penalty given up to that we were holding our own,but muamba & tuncay both played well against arsenal yet dont get to play,i think with our defence struggling we need to play re-coker and muamba in midfield to help out,that still leaves 4 players up front ,robinson & steinsson should concentrate on defending only as they get caught out of position every time they try to get foreward. and yesterday we showed how slow we are or how quick swansea are,the stats showed swansea had 8 out of 10 players who covered the most ground that from a bolton point of view is not good enough,and is nothing to do with confidence but with work rate.
Petrov1 he DID sign a replacement for Robbo. Alonso. He signed a replacement for Steinsson too. Mears.
Both out injured as you know. So that one's out the window.
The backup for Steinsson AND Mears (Boyata) is ALSO out injured. Then there;s Holden and Lee, and those are just the start.
Please don't alter the facts to suit your opinion. Owen could not have foreseen the horrific injury list we have and with the resources he was given he couldn't hav gone out and signed backups for the backups who would all be brilliant anyway.
I do agree with you on Blake, it mystifies me unless he's bringing something else to the party we don't know about. If he's coaching that's fine by me but put him on a coaches wage and drop the pretence that he's a player.
Tuncay is another I agree with, quality player who should have played yesterday. IMO N'gog isn't quite up to a lone striker role. However N'gog is far quicker and I suspect Owen thought we needed the extra pace. Perhaps Tuncay isn't fully fit?
Eagles reminds me of Lee, very very quick with some real skills but not as physically strong as we might like. However that's somethng you can correct in the gym although it won't happen overnight and I'd guess Owen is tempted to wrap the lad incotton wool given our current options for right wing are him and ... well him.
Robbo, oh dear, lovely guy, works his socks off and made a brilliant goal line clearance but he just isn't good enough. Owen would probably love to be shot of him but my guess is that we couldn't sell him in the summer and he was meant to be backup anyway but then with alonso injured and bibi getting sent off what other choice does he have right now? Alonso is supposed to be back in a fortnight and Bibi's ban will be one match so hopefully after the next game we won't see him starting again or even as a sub for a while and in Jan we can wave goodbye.
Cahill. I agreed and still do that we shouldn't sell him for less than he's worth and while I understand people bemoaning him leaving for nothing in summer ( I agree that woud be a shame) at least we didn't roll over and allow ourselves to be robbed with no time left in the window to find any kind of similar quality replacement. He may well go in January for a nominal fee or he might wind his contract down and leave in the summer but at least we keep his services for now and Lord knows we need them. How much worse things could be without him I shudder to think.
Why couldn't Coyle make decent signings? He did but who ELSE would you have Petrov? What would you pay for them with because it has been onvious for the last three windows he doesn't have fortunes in fact he doesn't seem to have ANY money to spend other than that generated by transfer fees and releases.
Don't forget that Elmander was on sixty K a week plus while here and that the wage bill overall had to come down (I sound like Bricks here ) before he could bring anyone else in.
The performances haven't been good enough, totally and utterly agree there. But just how much blame can be put on Owen for that and how much should the players do to accept their share of the responsibility for it? I agree that Owen has to take some but why is it ALL on his shoulders?
Right, well, some things we do agree on and some we don't. You no longer trust in Coyle and I do. I accept that there are reasons for you to feel the way you do just as I believe there is plenty of reason to keep the faith as it were. We have Stoke next, a tough game but IMO a really vital one in which we MUST get something positive in the form of at least a point then it's Everton if memory serves me correctly.
If I sound a little short and snippy today it's 'cos I'm typing this after a long night at work.
Currently I can't see why we should keep him and now that thought will be running through gartsides mind. Week in week out I come on here and say coyle is not good enough. People keep saying I am too hasty and he will sort it. Then we have another crushing defeat and I repeat myself and the sane thing happens. What I ask you is how many more crushing defeats before we say enough is enough.
Petrov, Coyle has had a distinct lack of money and resources to spend whilst at this club - if you believe that any manager could do better than Coyle with the resources given to him, your deluding yourself.
Changing managers is an expensive business, I would rather see that money go on players than a new manager.
Delusion is to think coyle is good after 13 losses from 15 games. Give speedo a go or anyone
Delusion is to think coyle is good after 13 losses from 15 games. Give speedo a go or anyone
--
Obviously Coyle has proved he is a good manager with Burnley and with us last season.
You are picking names out of the hat now, Speed was rubbish in the Championship.
i am with you petrov1 can not see why other people can not see it the team has no fight we used to be hard to beat and now its just plain easy
he is carp and only good at lower levels off football
he is carp and only good at lower levels off football
--
Thats clearly rubbish.
He got Burnley promoted, then he managed to get us to a FA cup semi final .....
yes but you only see what a manager is really like when not playing well and owen has been found wanting
spot on but look were burnley are now and look at us after the fa cup semi
spot on but look were burnley are now and look at us after the fa cup semi
--
What a stupid statement, how can Coyle be blamed for Burnleys demise?
He can't but he can for ours. Moses just give it a rest. We all know the excuses but the money has always been an issue. Injuries need to be dealt with. He has been found wanting with the players left. The team he put out yesterday was on paper better than Swansea. So why did we lose? Even before the sending off Swansea were better. It's about tactics and motivation. If the tactics and motivation are not there then better teams lose. When we play good teams that is masked by people expecting defeat. Its when Norwich, Sunderland or Swansea beat us that you can see what we are lacking. I don't know whether he was just lucky last season or Holden was so good that he won gamesfor us on his own which is never good to rely on one player. You also have to factor in coyle has brought in more of his own men which has drastically failed
Petrov, you seem to be suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to voice my opinion.
Yes things are bad but I don't think that there is a better manager for us at the moment with injuries and our resources.
Well I only.nrc has any potential rest are championship at best but saying that swansea were a team full of championship players and they played us off the park
Well moses when we get beat by stoke and west brom will you still be saying the same
Moses you are always allowed an opinion but it's about timing. After a defeat no one really wants to hear how good coyle is
Well moses when we get beat by stoke and west brom will you still be saying the same
--
Unlike you, I am not wanting us to lose, I know you have already accepted defeat ....
--
Moses you are always allowed an opinion but it's about timing. After a defeat no one really wants to hear how good coyle is
--
I was answering a post above, thats all I was doing.
No not accepted defeat I hope we can turn this round I just ain't burying my head in the sand we will soon see if I am wrong I will be first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong
Owenowen, you said WHEN, not IF we get beat. That IMO is suggesting defeat.
Well do you really think we can beat stoke the way we playing and more importantly defending and I do hope we win
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In coyle I don't trust
Page 1 of 3
posted on 30/10/11
You are entitled to your opinion.
posted on 30/10/11
Blake: my guess because he is onnext to nothing, and he is mentoring Mark Davies and has the entire time he's been there, obviously Coyle sees that as important, plus so our squad was not as depleted in the summer.
No-one offered enough money for Cahill, offers never reached double figures, if you had a car worth £4k, and you were offered £1.9k, is that a fair deal? No and neither was What Arsenal and Spurs offered. Considering how poor our defence is I'd rather keep him and let him go for free.
We can't defend because we currently have the two worst full backs in the premier league in our 1st 11, if it wasn't for injury we would be doing ok, Having to play Steinsson, 4th choice and Robbo 3rd choice, both slow and positionally inept means more often than not us conceding is their fault. Add into mix when Knight was playing and we had the worst defence in the league. It's not solid enough, yet look how much better it was when Boyata played, or Gardner.
We signed Tuncay because weneeded players, he's obviously not showed what's he capable of I'm training yet, if you don't train well then you don't play.
Because Robbo is earning a decent wage we need to sell him first, ww signed Alonso but last season he was being introduced slowly, this season he would have taken over had it not been for injury.
Matt Taylor has been poor for the last 2 seasons, he was simply awful, he was one of our top earner and he wasn't even a guaranteed starter, Eagles is a better player than Taylor, Taylor isn't even getting in a championship side now.
posted on 30/10/11
Cant muster attacks or pass because confidence is low, after the run of fixtures they hadthey were always going to be on the floor confidence wise. It takes time to gather confidence, it's so fickle right now that even the slightest referring decision can send it right back
down.
We are missing Holden for sure, he makes us tick, he's the complete box to box midfielder and taking a superstar out of any line up is gonna have an effect. But were also missing Lee, Ricketts, Alonso, Boyata, Mears, that means we are missing our two best players and the two that make things happen and two players that would sure up the defence.
I beg to differ Coyle has madedecent signings, however with the opposition we've been against and confidence so low, players are performing well below what they are capable of, it doesn't help when you defending well, and then fall apart after Boyata gets injured, or Gardner or Wheater gets sent off.
I've answered all your questions, I haven't clutched at straws with anything, I've merely given you reasons. I hope this makes you feel better we know the roots of the problems.
posted on 30/10/11
All valid points petrover...
All bar eagles, i actually rate him a bit...hes not scared to run at defenders, he seems to have a bit of 'fight' in him...hes just a little lightweight.
posted on 30/10/11
HOLDEN i agree totally with what you said,we also had clattenberg ,1 player sent off 1 penalty given up to that we were holding our own,but muamba & tuncay both played well against arsenal yet dont get to play,i think with our defence struggling we need to play re-coker and muamba in midfield to help out,that still leaves 4 players up front ,robinson & steinsson should concentrate on defending only as they get caught out of position every time they try to get foreward. and yesterday we showed how slow we are or how quick swansea are,the stats showed swansea had 8 out of 10 players who covered the most ground that from a bolton point of view is not good enough,and is nothing to do with confidence but with work rate.
posted on 30/10/11
Petrov1 he DID sign a replacement for Robbo. Alonso. He signed a replacement for Steinsson too. Mears.
Both out injured as you know. So that one's out the window.
The backup for Steinsson AND Mears (Boyata) is ALSO out injured. Then there;s Holden and Lee, and those are just the start.
Please don't alter the facts to suit your opinion. Owen could not have foreseen the horrific injury list we have and with the resources he was given he couldn't hav gone out and signed backups for the backups who would all be brilliant anyway.
I do agree with you on Blake, it mystifies me unless he's bringing something else to the party we don't know about. If he's coaching that's fine by me but put him on a coaches wage and drop the pretence that he's a player.
Tuncay is another I agree with, quality player who should have played yesterday. IMO N'gog isn't quite up to a lone striker role. However N'gog is far quicker and I suspect Owen thought we needed the extra pace. Perhaps Tuncay isn't fully fit?
Eagles reminds me of Lee, very very quick with some real skills but not as physically strong as we might like. However that's somethng you can correct in the gym although it won't happen overnight and I'd guess Owen is tempted to wrap the lad incotton wool given our current options for right wing are him and ... well him.
Robbo, oh dear, lovely guy, works his socks off and made a brilliant goal line clearance but he just isn't good enough. Owen would probably love to be shot of him but my guess is that we couldn't sell him in the summer and he was meant to be backup anyway but then with alonso injured and bibi getting sent off what other choice does he have right now? Alonso is supposed to be back in a fortnight and Bibi's ban will be one match so hopefully after the next game we won't see him starting again or even as a sub for a while and in Jan we can wave goodbye.
Cahill. I agreed and still do that we shouldn't sell him for less than he's worth and while I understand people bemoaning him leaving for nothing in summer ( I agree that woud be a shame) at least we didn't roll over and allow ourselves to be robbed with no time left in the window to find any kind of similar quality replacement. He may well go in January for a nominal fee or he might wind his contract down and leave in the summer but at least we keep his services for now and Lord knows we need them. How much worse things could be without him I shudder to think.
Why couldn't Coyle make decent signings? He did but who ELSE would you have Petrov? What would you pay for them with because it has been onvious for the last three windows he doesn't have fortunes in fact he doesn't seem to have ANY money to spend other than that generated by transfer fees and releases.
Don't forget that Elmander was on sixty K a week plus while here and that the wage bill overall had to come down (I sound like Bricks here ) before he could bring anyone else in.
The performances haven't been good enough, totally and utterly agree there. But just how much blame can be put on Owen for that and how much should the players do to accept their share of the responsibility for it? I agree that Owen has to take some but why is it ALL on his shoulders?
Right, well, some things we do agree on and some we don't. You no longer trust in Coyle and I do. I accept that there are reasons for you to feel the way you do just as I believe there is plenty of reason to keep the faith as it were. We have Stoke next, a tough game but IMO a really vital one in which we MUST get something positive in the form of at least a point then it's Everton if memory serves me correctly.
If I sound a little short and snippy today it's 'cos I'm typing this after a long night at work.
posted on 30/10/11
Currently I can't see why we should keep him and now that thought will be running through gartsides mind. Week in week out I come on here and say coyle is not good enough. People keep saying I am too hasty and he will sort it. Then we have another crushing defeat and I repeat myself and the sane thing happens. What I ask you is how many more crushing defeats before we say enough is enough.
posted on 30/10/11
Petrov, Coyle has had a distinct lack of money and resources to spend whilst at this club - if you believe that any manager could do better than Coyle with the resources given to him, your deluding yourself.
Changing managers is an expensive business, I would rather see that money go on players than a new manager.
posted on 30/10/11
Delusion is to think coyle is good after 13 losses from 15 games. Give speedo a go or anyone
posted on 30/10/11
Delusion is to think coyle is good after 13 losses from 15 games. Give speedo a go or anyone
--
Obviously Coyle has proved he is a good manager with Burnley and with us last season.
You are picking names out of the hat now, Speed was rubbish in the Championship.
posted on 30/10/11
i am with you petrov1 can not see why other people can not see it the team has no fight we used to be hard to beat and now its just plain easy
posted on 30/10/11
he is carp and only good at lower levels off football
posted on 30/10/11
he is carp and only good at lower levels off football
--
Thats clearly rubbish.
He got Burnley promoted, then he managed to get us to a FA cup semi final .....
posted on 30/10/11
yes but you only see what a manager is really like when not playing well and owen has been found wanting
posted on 30/10/11
spot on but look were burnley are now and look at us after the fa cup semi
posted on 30/10/11
spot on but look were burnley are now and look at us after the fa cup semi
--
What a stupid statement, how can Coyle be blamed for Burnleys demise?
posted on 30/10/11
He can't but he can for ours. Moses just give it a rest. We all know the excuses but the money has always been an issue. Injuries need to be dealt with. He has been found wanting with the players left. The team he put out yesterday was on paper better than Swansea. So why did we lose? Even before the sending off Swansea were better. It's about tactics and motivation. If the tactics and motivation are not there then better teams lose. When we play good teams that is masked by people expecting defeat. Its when Norwich, Sunderland or Swansea beat us that you can see what we are lacking. I don't know whether he was just lucky last season or Holden was so good that he won gamesfor us on his own which is never good to rely on one player. You also have to factor in coyle has brought in more of his own men which has drastically failed
posted on 30/10/11
Petrov, you seem to be suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to voice my opinion.
Yes things are bad but I don't think that there is a better manager for us at the moment with injuries and our resources.
posted on 30/10/11
Well I only.nrc has any potential rest are championship at best but saying that swansea were a team full of championship players and they played us off the park
posted on 30/10/11
Well moses when we get beat by stoke and west brom will you still be saying the same
posted on 30/10/11
Moses you are always allowed an opinion but it's about timing. After a defeat no one really wants to hear how good coyle is
posted on 30/10/11
Well moses when we get beat by stoke and west brom will you still be saying the same
--
Unlike you, I am not wanting us to lose, I know you have already accepted defeat ....
--
Moses you are always allowed an opinion but it's about timing. After a defeat no one really wants to hear how good coyle is
--
I was answering a post above, thats all I was doing.
posted on 30/10/11
No not accepted defeat I hope we can turn this round I just ain't burying my head in the sand we will soon see if I am wrong I will be first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong
posted on 30/10/11
Owenowen, you said WHEN, not IF we get beat. That IMO is suggesting defeat.
posted on 30/10/11
Well do you really think we can beat stoke the way we playing and more importantly defending and I do hope we win
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