Mr Chelsea
Possibly... Maybe the timing wasn't quite right for Mourinho. He'd barely got going at Inter when the big job at Real was dangled before him. Let's not forget that at this point not only could Real offer the same sort of budget as City but already had a squad stocked with phenomenal talent, while City were still in the position of trying to get into the CL and everyone was laughing about them trying to attract the likes of Kaka. It's quite possible that Mourinho had the chance and made exactly the same choice as Kaka.
OGS = Wilf McGuinness.
Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again.
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
posted 23 minutes ago
OGS = Wilf McGuinness.
Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again
----------------------
Spot on
'OGS = Wilf McGuinness. Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again.'
The thing is, OGS isn't the same person as Wilf McG and Fergie isn't Busby. The game has changed in so many ways since then. There is the benefit of hindsight and the opportunity to learn from history.
So I don't think it's inevitable that history must repeat itself. Isn't it also possible that OGS could = our Guardiola? Or to take the Liverpool analogy, he could be Bob Paisley / Joe Fagan, or he could be a Souness. My crystal ball isn't telling me which.
RR
History does tend to repeat. Simply because people wont learn from it.
I had to endure some of those barren 26 years as a kid supporting United. Which was directly caused because United didn't replace Busby properly way back in 1969.
20legend was tipped as someone with possible managerial potential by ' 'AF in the 90's.
That he went from playing, straight into reserve team manager says a lot, when you consider that it's the second highest manager job at the club. He excelled at it as well.
Molde is possibly his final step before United. SAF will have a HUUUUGE say in his successor, and who better than a man who is not only a great manager, but also knows the club inside and out.
I could honestly see OGS lasting longer than SAF does, if he wants to.
RedBlackandWhiteside
My formative experiences were in the long, dark 1980s, which made my default expectations when it comes to football one of pessimism. I assure you that I don't have a complacent belief that success is sure to go on.
All I'm saying is that there are plenty of examples of young appointments from within - some going very well, some going very badly. The Busby succession involved a set of circumstances, including Busby undermining Wilf's authority, Wilf probably not having the tools to succeed, and the nature of the squad inherited. There is no guarantee that these factors will be replicated. Maybe Fergie and the club hierarchy would understand the importance of him taking a back seat. Maybe Ole is the best young manager in the world. Etc.
I'm not saying I have a conviction we should go with OGS (or Giggs or whatever), just that these issues aren't black and white.
I do think that it would be a great asset to bring in manager with a long-term outlook / mandate. In my view there is a greater danger that someone like Mourinho would think of sticking around for 2-3 years and wouldn't care too much if decisions leading to immediate success had a negative impact on the strength of the team in 4-5 years. Of course, there's no guarantee that OGS or someone like him would be good enough or that he'd plan to stay for 10 years (or that the club would back him for that long), but I think there's a stronger chance of retaining that invaluable continuity if the manager is someone with a strong affinity with the club.
I could honestly see OGS lasting longer than SAF does, if he wants to.
****
Wayne, I admire your confidence in OGS. Unfortunately for OGS, how long he becomes manager (at any club) isn't /won't be up to him.
Of course, he or anybody else will only have longevity as United's next manager as long as he delivers the goods as Fergie has done.(That is why Fergie is still with us after all these years).
As for Fergie having a huge say in who succeeds him. This is true if the parting is amicable. If United feel the need to sack Fergie in the future, for what ever reason,(and no manager is above this reality) then Im not sure that Fergie would be as involved with picking the next manager.
RR
you make a good point about loyalty to the club. Especially Mourinho who I agree would come and milk the infrastructure that Fergie has laid down for immediate success but not replace it himself, as well as Fergie, for the future, and move on himself when the happy days begin to dry up. Like Souness did at Anfield.
There is not natural successor.
There is no natural successor.
- I agree with that. Unfortunately, there has to be someone. To be honest, I'm glad I have absolutely no say in the matter.
By the way, it's hard to imagine Fergie ever being sacked. He could have two or three poor seasons and still have enough accumulated credibility to be strong in his position. Moreover, the Glazers would be wary of the political consequences of the fans' fury / potentially having Fergie outside the tent free to lob grenades in.
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
Wayne, I admire your confidence in OGS. Unfortunately for OGS, how long he becomes manager (at any club) isn't /won't be up to him.
Of course, he or anybody else will only have longevity as United's next manager as long as he delivers the goods as Fergie has done.(That is why Fergie is still with us after all these years).
As for Fergie having a huge say in who succeeds him. This is true if the parting is amicable. If United feel the need to sack Fergie in the future, for what ever reason,(and no manager is above this reality) then Im not sure that Fergie would be as involved with picking the next manager.
_______________________________________________________
OF COURSE it will depend on how he fares, I wasn't suggesting that they'd give him 30 years no matter what, but that I believe that he will carry on where SAF leaves off, and maybe, maybe be a little bit better, certainly in Europe e.g. no awful 4-5-1 nonsense
As for SAF being sacked, well yes in theory it could happen, in practice there is more chance of Andy Carrolls 60 goal haul leading Liverpool to their first title for 22 years.
there is more chance of Andy Carrolls 60 goal haul
***
ha ha, Fergie is safe then!
Don't rule anything out. Things happen that you cant forsee. Not just about football matters too. Ask Tommy Docherty!
If only the Doc had kept it in his pants, what might he have achieved with us?
terrible image of Tommy Doc and Mary Brown in my mind now.
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Could Solskjaer be groomed to succeedFergie
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posted on 13/12/11
Thanks for that lads
posted on 13/12/11
Mr Chelsea
Possibly... Maybe the timing wasn't quite right for Mourinho. He'd barely got going at Inter when the big job at Real was dangled before him. Let's not forget that at this point not only could Real offer the same sort of budget as City but already had a squad stocked with phenomenal talent, while City were still in the position of trying to get into the CL and everyone was laughing about them trying to attract the likes of Kaka. It's quite possible that Mourinho had the chance and made exactly the same choice as Kaka.
posted on 13/12/11
OGS = Wilf McGuinness.
Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again.
posted on 14/12/11
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
posted 23 minutes ago
OGS = Wilf McGuinness.
Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again
----------------------
Spot on
posted on 14/12/11
'OGS = Wilf McGuinness. Same scenario. Exactly. Don't let it happen again.'
The thing is, OGS isn't the same person as Wilf McG and Fergie isn't Busby. The game has changed in so many ways since then. There is the benefit of hindsight and the opportunity to learn from history.
So I don't think it's inevitable that history must repeat itself. Isn't it also possible that OGS could = our Guardiola? Or to take the Liverpool analogy, he could be Bob Paisley / Joe Fagan, or he could be a Souness. My crystal ball isn't telling me which.
posted on 14/12/11
RR
History does tend to repeat. Simply because people wont learn from it.
I had to endure some of those barren 26 years as a kid supporting United. Which was directly caused because United didn't replace Busby properly way back in 1969.
posted on 14/12/11
20legend was tipped as someone with possible managerial potential by ' 'AF in the 90's.
That he went from playing, straight into reserve team manager says a lot, when you consider that it's the second highest manager job at the club. He excelled at it as well.
Molde is possibly his final step before United. SAF will have a HUUUUGE say in his successor, and who better than a man who is not only a great manager, but also knows the club inside and out.
I could honestly see OGS lasting longer than SAF does, if he wants to.
posted on 14/12/11
RedBlackandWhiteside
My formative experiences were in the long, dark 1980s, which made my default expectations when it comes to football one of pessimism. I assure you that I don't have a complacent belief that success is sure to go on.
All I'm saying is that there are plenty of examples of young appointments from within - some going very well, some going very badly. The Busby succession involved a set of circumstances, including Busby undermining Wilf's authority, Wilf probably not having the tools to succeed, and the nature of the squad inherited. There is no guarantee that these factors will be replicated. Maybe Fergie and the club hierarchy would understand the importance of him taking a back seat. Maybe Ole is the best young manager in the world. Etc.
I'm not saying I have a conviction we should go with OGS (or Giggs or whatever), just that these issues aren't black and white.
I do think that it would be a great asset to bring in manager with a long-term outlook / mandate. In my view there is a greater danger that someone like Mourinho would think of sticking around for 2-3 years and wouldn't care too much if decisions leading to immediate success had a negative impact on the strength of the team in 4-5 years. Of course, there's no guarantee that OGS or someone like him would be good enough or that he'd plan to stay for 10 years (or that the club would back him for that long), but I think there's a stronger chance of retaining that invaluable continuity if the manager is someone with a strong affinity with the club.
posted on 14/12/11
I could honestly see OGS lasting longer than SAF does, if he wants to.
****
Wayne, I admire your confidence in OGS. Unfortunately for OGS, how long he becomes manager (at any club) isn't /won't be up to him.
Of course, he or anybody else will only have longevity as United's next manager as long as he delivers the goods as Fergie has done.(That is why Fergie is still with us after all these years).
As for Fergie having a huge say in who succeeds him. This is true if the parting is amicable. If United feel the need to sack Fergie in the future, for what ever reason,(and no manager is above this reality) then Im not sure that Fergie would be as involved with picking the next manager.
RR
you make a good point about loyalty to the club. Especially Mourinho who I agree would come and milk the infrastructure that Fergie has laid down for immediate success but not replace it himself, as well as Fergie, for the future, and move on himself when the happy days begin to dry up. Like Souness did at Anfield.
There is not natural successor.
posted on 14/12/11
There is no natural successor.
- I agree with that. Unfortunately, there has to be someone. To be honest, I'm glad I have absolutely no say in the matter.
By the way, it's hard to imagine Fergie ever being sacked. He could have two or three poor seasons and still have enough accumulated credibility to be strong in his position. Moreover, the Glazers would be wary of the political consequences of the fans' fury / potentially having Fergie outside the tent free to lob grenades in.
posted on 14/12/11
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
Wayne, I admire your confidence in OGS. Unfortunately for OGS, how long he becomes manager (at any club) isn't /won't be up to him.
Of course, he or anybody else will only have longevity as United's next manager as long as he delivers the goods as Fergie has done.(That is why Fergie is still with us after all these years).
As for Fergie having a huge say in who succeeds him. This is true if the parting is amicable. If United feel the need to sack Fergie in the future, for what ever reason,(and no manager is above this reality) then Im not sure that Fergie would be as involved with picking the next manager.
_______________________________________________________
OF COURSE it will depend on how he fares, I wasn't suggesting that they'd give him 30 years no matter what, but that I believe that he will carry on where SAF leaves off, and maybe, maybe be a little bit better, certainly in Europe e.g. no awful 4-5-1 nonsense
As for SAF being sacked, well yes in theory it could happen, in practice there is more chance of Andy Carrolls 60 goal haul leading Liverpool to their first title for 22 years.
posted on 14/12/11
there is more chance of Andy Carrolls 60 goal haul
***
ha ha, Fergie is safe then!
Don't rule anything out. Things happen that you cant forsee. Not just about football matters too. Ask Tommy Docherty!
posted on 14/12/11
If only the Doc had kept it in his pants, what might he have achieved with us?
posted on 14/12/11
terrible image of Tommy Doc and Mary Brown in my mind now.
posted on 14/12/11
RBaW, don't go there
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