Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Good article. Lets hope the decision is the right one and that this is cleared up once and for all. I can see it dragging on for the whole season.
Kenny had a good press conference. He is getting the bacon butties in on Friday
Good article. Hopefully people will read this and realise that this is not a black and white case of racism, and that because the FA have failed to deal with in a proper manner, Suarez has now unfairly been labelled a racist by many people in this country.
I also completely agree with this Vickery that we have a holier than thou attitude in this country.
Yes, I don't condone the Fulham incident - all be it fans are on the wind-up for 90 minutes - it will have to be something that Luis gets accustomed too.
The fact that they call Uruguayan team-mate Maxi Perreira 'El Mono' - 'The Monkey' just suggests how languages are perceived and Evra and the FA need to open their eyes and see this is clearly misunderstood.
T Bone & FatJan -
Totally 100% agree to both
That article is spot on and has said everything us Liverpool fans have been arguing, but in a more eloquent educated way.
It makes you wonder whether the likes of DevonshireSpur and some of the United fans in here will change their opinion after reading that?
I dont think TIm is saying that he doesn't deserve to be charged, but he is explaining that context is everything. Indeed it is.
Not sure about you, but i dont know what the specific allegations are word-for-word, but IF he is deemed to have made racist comments, then i would hope they throw the book at him. Wouldn't you? Or do club loyalties transcend such things??
The same goes for John Terry our so-called England captain! If he is guilty then he should be severely punished and i would want him stripped of the captaincy for good.
However, lets wait and see what the outcome is - i am sure the FA have all the facts in front of them, but i agree this has seemingly rumbled on for far far too long, which isnt fair on the players.
I hope the FA go down the education route. Make a rule that every overseas player has to do an intensive course in what you can/cannot say or do whilst in this country. Put a deadline on it and have documented evidence that it has been completed. This way there will be no defence for cultural difference's.
terentius : would you implement this for UK nationals working overseas too? You'd first have to get most of them to speak the language at all.
I'm being specific to football. This is where all the high profile happenings are. I don't see too much coverage of similar events happening to uk nationals overseas, things probably get sorted out internally. I'm merely trying to avoid similar cases happening in the future and removing the 'grey areas'
The whole things a grey area, no-one apart from Luis knows EXACTLY what he said or meant.
It is just in the context of his background and upbringing he has done nothing wrong - if he knew the severity of the apparent 'word/words' Evra claims he said "10 times" he wouldn't say them. Ten times!? Everyone says something they regret, but not something that could land them in so much trouble - over 90 minutes - in front of 45,000 and millions on TV.
If they give Suarez a huge ban then Terry should be banned for good as there si clear evidence in his case. In Suarez's case it is all down to Evra's word.
This will be a real challenge for the FA. Look after their darling John and they have to look after our darling Luiz.
hehe terentious, called it a 'grey area' in my comment before I saw you did ^^
That must DEFINITELY make it a 'grey area'
This will be a real challenge for the FA. Look after their darling John and they have to look after our darling Luiz.
AMEN
Loved that ^^
I think they should ban him for the entire month of June.
Not sure about you, but i dont know what the specific allegations are word-for-word, but IF he is deemed to have made racist comments, then i would hope they throw the book at him. Wouldn't you? Or do club loyalties transcend such things??
The same goes for John Terry our so-called England captain! If he is guilty then he should be severely punished and i would want him stripped of the captaincy for good.
-----------------------
This is the issue though Mouseburger. Its not clear cut. The argument is that there are cultural and language differences that have to be considered.
And this is why I agree with Vickery that we are sometimes holier than thou. Not everyone speaks English and everyone in the world is aware of English culture and i don;t think we should expect them to be. I'm proud that this country is leading the way in terms of dealing with racism, but it wasn't so long ago that used to find Mind Your Language funny, and Bernard Manning was on TV. Some other countries haven't caught up yet but that doesn't mean we adopt this holier than thou attitude. We need to educate.
For John Terry there is no excuse. He's born and bred in this country, knows our stance our racism and definitley knows better. But sometimes someone from a different country has to be given a certain level of leeway because there are cultural and language differences. Suarez has used a word which in his country has no racist connotations but in this country it is seen as being racist. In Spanish Negro is just the colour black but in this country Negro relates to slavery and discrimination.
These are the subtle differences that need to be considered, and I'm not saying this just because I'm a Liverpool fan.
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
If he doesn't excuse me, but I believed he did and was BBC's correspondent for their football - makes him the best source for background knowledge? Not biassed.
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
-------------------
Amazing logic
BB. Well done for showing how dull you are. Whichever side of the fence you're on, you can't argue that this is a balanced, well written article, created by someone with infinitely more knowledge on the subject than 99% of us. And thats the most intelligent input you can come up with. There is no hope for some...
good article i agree...we could discuss this till the cows come home..will we ever know what went on? Time to move on I feel..
I dont fall for this ' it's not racist in his natural tongue' though...It's weak
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
______________
Wow. Just, wow. You're making assumptions - albeit almost illegibly - that a white man living in SA is obviously going to be pro-Suarez in this case?
comment by Bring Back Rushies Moustache (U6045)
posted 9 minutes ago
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
______________
Wow. Just, wow. You're making assumptions - albeit almost illegibly - that a white man living in SA is obviously going to be pro-Suarez in this case?
Could be one of the daftest things I've read on this site Rushie!
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posted on 20/12/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/12/11
Good article. Lets hope the decision is the right one and that this is cleared up once and for all. I can see it dragging on for the whole season.
Kenny had a good press conference. He is getting the bacon butties in on Friday
posted on 20/12/11
Good article. Hopefully people will read this and realise that this is not a black and white case of racism, and that because the FA have failed to deal with in a proper manner, Suarez has now unfairly been labelled a racist by many people in this country.
I also completely agree with this Vickery that we have a holier than thou attitude in this country.
posted on 20/12/11
Yes, I don't condone the Fulham incident - all be it fans are on the wind-up for 90 minutes - it will have to be something that Luis gets accustomed too.
The fact that they call Uruguayan team-mate Maxi Perreira 'El Mono' - 'The Monkey' just suggests how languages are perceived and Evra and the FA need to open their eyes and see this is clearly misunderstood.
posted on 20/12/11
T Bone & FatJan -
Totally 100% agree to both
posted on 20/12/11
That article is spot on and has said everything us Liverpool fans have been arguing, but in a more eloquent educated way.
It makes you wonder whether the likes of DevonshireSpur and some of the United fans in here will change their opinion after reading that?
posted on 20/12/11
if only they could read
posted on 20/12/11
I dont think TIm is saying that he doesn't deserve to be charged, but he is explaining that context is everything. Indeed it is.
Not sure about you, but i dont know what the specific allegations are word-for-word, but IF he is deemed to have made racist comments, then i would hope they throw the book at him. Wouldn't you? Or do club loyalties transcend such things??
The same goes for John Terry our so-called England captain! If he is guilty then he should be severely punished and i would want him stripped of the captaincy for good.
However, lets wait and see what the outcome is - i am sure the FA have all the facts in front of them, but i agree this has seemingly rumbled on for far far too long, which isnt fair on the players.
posted on 20/12/11
I hope the FA go down the education route. Make a rule that every overseas player has to do an intensive course in what you can/cannot say or do whilst in this country. Put a deadline on it and have documented evidence that it has been completed. This way there will be no defence for cultural difference's.
posted on 20/12/11
terentius : would you implement this for UK nationals working overseas too? You'd first have to get most of them to speak the language at all.
posted on 20/12/11
I'm being specific to football. This is where all the high profile happenings are. I don't see too much coverage of similar events happening to uk nationals overseas, things probably get sorted out internally. I'm merely trying to avoid similar cases happening in the future and removing the 'grey areas'
posted on 20/12/11
The whole things a grey area, no-one apart from Luis knows EXACTLY what he said or meant.
It is just in the context of his background and upbringing he has done nothing wrong - if he knew the severity of the apparent 'word/words' Evra claims he said "10 times" he wouldn't say them. Ten times!? Everyone says something they regret, but not something that could land them in so much trouble - over 90 minutes - in front of 45,000 and millions on TV.
posted on 20/12/11
If they give Suarez a huge ban then Terry should be banned for good as there si clear evidence in his case. In Suarez's case it is all down to Evra's word.
This will be a real challenge for the FA. Look after their darling John and they have to look after our darling Luiz.
posted on 20/12/11
hehe terentious, called it a 'grey area' in my comment before I saw you did ^^
That must DEFINITELY make it a 'grey area'
posted on 20/12/11
This will be a real challenge for the FA. Look after their darling John and they have to look after our darling Luiz.
AMEN
Loved that ^^
posted on 20/12/11
I think they should ban him for the entire month of June.
posted on 20/12/11
Not sure about you, but i dont know what the specific allegations are word-for-word, but IF he is deemed to have made racist comments, then i would hope they throw the book at him. Wouldn't you? Or do club loyalties transcend such things??
The same goes for John Terry our so-called England captain! If he is guilty then he should be severely punished and i would want him stripped of the captaincy for good.
-----------------------
This is the issue though Mouseburger. Its not clear cut. The argument is that there are cultural and language differences that have to be considered.
And this is why I agree with Vickery that we are sometimes holier than thou. Not everyone speaks English and everyone in the world is aware of English culture and i don;t think we should expect them to be. I'm proud that this country is leading the way in terms of dealing with racism, but it wasn't so long ago that used to find Mind Your Language funny, and Bernard Manning was on TV. Some other countries haven't caught up yet but that doesn't mean we adopt this holier than thou attitude. We need to educate.
For John Terry there is no excuse. He's born and bred in this country, knows our stance our racism and definitley knows better. But sometimes someone from a different country has to be given a certain level of leeway because there are cultural and language differences. Suarez has used a word which in his country has no racist connotations but in this country it is seen as being racist. In Spanish Negro is just the colour black but in this country Negro relates to slavery and discrimination.
These are the subtle differences that need to be considered, and I'm not saying this just because I'm a Liverpool fan.
posted on 20/12/11
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
posted on 20/12/11
If he doesn't excuse me, but I believed he did and was BBC's correspondent for their football - makes him the best source for background knowledge? Not biassed.
posted on 20/12/11
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
-------------------
Amazing logic
posted on 20/12/11
BB. Well done for showing how dull you are. Whichever side of the fence you're on, you can't argue that this is a balanced, well written article, created by someone with infinitely more knowledge on the subject than 99% of us. And thats the most intelligent input you can come up with. There is no hope for some...
posted on 20/12/11
good article i agree...we could discuss this till the cows come home..will we ever know what went on? Time to move on I feel..
posted on 20/12/11
I dont fall for this ' it's not racist in his natural tongue' though...It's weak
posted on 20/12/11
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
______________
Wow. Just, wow. You're making assumptions - albeit almost illegibly - that a white man living in SA is obviously going to be pro-Suarez in this case?
posted on 20/12/11
comment by Bring Back Rushies Moustache (U6045)
posted 9 minutes ago
Vickery resides in SA? Bias an flawed already
______________
Wow. Just, wow. You're making assumptions - albeit almost illegibly - that a white man living in SA is obviously going to be pro-Suarez in this case?
Could be one of the daftest things I've read on this site Rushie!
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