The CL (or Champions Greed) is a UEFA that tarnishes the original competition, and helped create the PL piggie trough that is the Sky 4.
If UEFA reverted the tournaments, winning the league would be the only relevance. UEFA participation would be a bonus.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You're even taking yourselves seriously - for a change.
Agree with RDBD. The old style European Cup, knockout style was the proper pinnacle of club football. With only 1 team from each country you had to win the league
we need to adopt a similar approach to most of the European teams that qualify.. 'enjoy the competition but don't risk fatigue on the players that could help you win the league'.
--
That is true of clubs in the Europa League, but I think virtually every club fields the strongest available side for all CL matches except dead rubber games.
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Who remembers the year when Forest drew Liverpool (the defending champions) in the first or second round ??
That's what I call a PROPER UEFA clash. Not some vs Genk FC.
Also why I have the utmost respect for the Pooool 80s UEFA empire.
The CL for years has just become a money making business for a few stella clubs, and the moment some of them fail to make the CL, the rules will once again be changed to accommodate.
Most of the group games are absolute bore fests.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"and the moment some of them fail to make the CL, the rules will once again be changed to accommodate"
Cannot wait to see that given the slow demise of the Sky 4, and the alleged FFP regime.
How can you say you dont care less about winning the champions league, Yes it prop wont happen but if it did it would be one of the greatest days in the clubs history
No point being in a competion if you dont try to win it
Maybe I'm a purist but winning the Champions League when you haven't won the domestic league seems less prestigious. I'd rather win the League first then set targets for winning the Champions League. Obviously you take any cup you can but this would be my preference.
+1 .
At least Man Utd have done the equivalent of the "old way" once.
Full respect to Liverpool, Forest, Villa etc but imo it was just as tough to win the UEFA Cup as the European Cup in those days... I have more respect for Liverpool winning it in 2005 than any of their previous four wins for instance.
There is something attractive about the old system as it would share the spotlight with the champions from the smaller nations (see Forest's run to both EC finals for instance) but I could see the quality declining in the short term until countries such as Russia, Poland, Turkey, Greece drastically improved their club football (and finances) to compete with the top clubs in Western Europe...
"I could see the quality declining in the short term until countries such as Russia, Poland, Turkey, Greece drastically improved their club football (and finances) to compete with the top clubs in Western Europe"
That is life.
If the league format is supposed to inject some money into their clubs before their inevitable demise, fine. But hardly as much as the piggie trough that the incumbents get.
I mean, 40m for Spurs merely being beaten QFs.
Where is the "equitable" in that re the small clubs.
Its a tricky one for me RDBD as clearly the competition in purely marketing terms is a huge financial success - what I think is more equitable and sensible would be for UEFA to take a bigger slice of these revenues in August befoe the tournament starts and distribute them to the smaller leagues/grassroots. Alan Sugar proposed something similar in the early days of the Premier League but was shouted down...
Instead if you say okay well Barcelona you finished second this season, lost in the EC final so you will be in the UEFA Cup next year, AC Milan you finished fourth but won the Coppa Italia so you'll be in the CWC, Liverpool you finished fifth you can enter the Intertoto and so on you see how many people in India, China, Brazil, USA etc (where the vast majority of these riches come from) will still care about watching the Champions of Finland taking on the Champions of Romania in the QF of the Champions League.
You cant just create a new product or market and expect millions of people around the world to love it because to us European football fans its more "fair".
+1 on "wealth distribution" .
The RDBD loves the FA Cup and Wimbledon cos the nobodies get there on merit, not artificially. And every yr at least one of them pulls off a shocker or lingers well above their position.
I don't see that in the UEFA tournaments.
If I were Platini I'd merge the EL and CL into a huge straight unseeded knockout tournament akin to the FA Cup, the plastics (and beancounters) get the Inter Milan's, Chelsea's, Bayern Munich's, Real Madrid's (who would all currently be in the Uefa Cup under the old system) while the smaller nations get (with a bit of luck in the draw and over two legs) two or three entrants each and with a better shot at glory than under the current set up...
Lobby the Sports Minister now !!!
Revert to the old UEFA tournaments, or bring forth the U(9026)EFA Super Cup !!!
I'd like to see a CL where each country's domestic league and FA cup champions qualified, perhaps opening a slot too for the runners-up in the strongest domestic leagues.
It would really add some spice to domestic cup competitions and would actually resemble something like a Champions League.
The presence of league runners-up would slightly distort it, but would also reduce the chances of it not being won by the best team in Europe in any given season.
"The presence of league runners-up would slightly distort it, but would also reduce the chances of it not being won by the best team in Europe in any given season."
Actually, the weakness of a domestic league causes this.
In the 80s heyday, you had the Pooool empire, and Forest and Villa.
Without Heysel happening, Everton would have had a couple of attempts too.
Actually, the weakness of a domestic league causes this.
---
Could you clarify that? I don't understand what you mean.
A bottom half team in one league would probably be a top 3 team in another country.
There was a bit more variation in the league champions in the 80s.
That by definition translates into new blood into the Champions Cup.
Another thing I noticed when doing some stattery, is that twas much more variation in the top 4 pre PL, than the "Sky 4" piggie trough. Again, that translated into more English variation in the UEFA Cup.
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Champions or Champions league?
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posted on 2/2/12
The CL (or Champions Greed) is a UEFA that tarnishes the original competition, and helped create the PL piggie trough that is the Sky 4.
If UEFA reverted the tournaments, winning the league would be the only relevance. UEFA participation would be a bonus.
posted on 2/2/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/12
You're even taking yourselves seriously - for a change.
posted on 2/2/12
Agree with RDBD. The old style European Cup, knockout style was the proper pinnacle of club football. With only 1 team from each country you had to win the league
posted on 2/2/12
we need to adopt a similar approach to most of the European teams that qualify.. 'enjoy the competition but don't risk fatigue on the players that could help you win the league'.
--
That is true of clubs in the Europa League, but I think virtually every club fields the strongest available side for all CL matches except dead rubber games.
posted on 2/2/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/12
Who remembers the year when Forest drew Liverpool (the defending champions) in the first or second round ??
That's what I call a PROPER UEFA clash. Not some vs Genk FC.
Also why I have the utmost respect for the Pooool 80s UEFA empire.
posted on 2/2/12
The CL for years has just become a money making business for a few stella clubs, and the moment some of them fail to make the CL, the rules will once again be changed to accommodate.
Most of the group games are absolute bore fests.
posted on 2/2/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/12
"and the moment some of them fail to make the CL, the rules will once again be changed to accommodate"
Cannot wait to see that given the slow demise of the Sky 4, and the alleged FFP regime.
posted on 2/2/12
How can you say you dont care less about winning the champions league, Yes it prop wont happen but if it did it would be one of the greatest days in the clubs history
No point being in a competion if you dont try to win it
posted on 2/2/12
Maybe I'm a purist but winning the Champions League when you haven't won the domestic league seems less prestigious. I'd rather win the League first then set targets for winning the Champions League. Obviously you take any cup you can but this would be my preference.
posted on 2/2/12
+1 .
At least Man Utd have done the equivalent of the "old way" once.
posted on 2/2/12
Full respect to Liverpool, Forest, Villa etc but imo it was just as tough to win the UEFA Cup as the European Cup in those days... I have more respect for Liverpool winning it in 2005 than any of their previous four wins for instance.
There is something attractive about the old system as it would share the spotlight with the champions from the smaller nations (see Forest's run to both EC finals for instance) but I could see the quality declining in the short term until countries such as Russia, Poland, Turkey, Greece drastically improved their club football (and finances) to compete with the top clubs in Western Europe...
posted on 2/2/12
"I could see the quality declining in the short term until countries such as Russia, Poland, Turkey, Greece drastically improved their club football (and finances) to compete with the top clubs in Western Europe"
That is life.
If the league format is supposed to inject some money into their clubs before their inevitable demise, fine. But hardly as much as the piggie trough that the incumbents get.
I mean, 40m for Spurs merely being beaten QFs.
Where is the "equitable" in that re the small clubs.
posted on 2/2/12
Its a tricky one for me RDBD as clearly the competition in purely marketing terms is a huge financial success - what I think is more equitable and sensible would be for UEFA to take a bigger slice of these revenues in August befoe the tournament starts and distribute them to the smaller leagues/grassroots. Alan Sugar proposed something similar in the early days of the Premier League but was shouted down...
Instead if you say okay well Barcelona you finished second this season, lost in the EC final so you will be in the UEFA Cup next year, AC Milan you finished fourth but won the Coppa Italia so you'll be in the CWC, Liverpool you finished fifth you can enter the Intertoto and so on you see how many people in India, China, Brazil, USA etc (where the vast majority of these riches come from) will still care about watching the Champions of Finland taking on the Champions of Romania in the QF of the Champions League.
You cant just create a new product or market and expect millions of people around the world to love it because to us European football fans its more "fair".
posted on 2/2/12
+1 on "wealth distribution" .
The RDBD loves the FA Cup and Wimbledon cos the nobodies get there on merit, not artificially. And every yr at least one of them pulls off a shocker or lingers well above their position.
I don't see that in the UEFA tournaments.
posted on 2/2/12
If I were Platini I'd merge the EL and CL into a huge straight unseeded knockout tournament akin to the FA Cup, the plastics (and beancounters) get the Inter Milan's, Chelsea's, Bayern Munich's, Real Madrid's (who would all currently be in the Uefa Cup under the old system) while the smaller nations get (with a bit of luck in the draw and over two legs) two or three entrants each and with a better shot at glory than under the current set up...
posted on 2/2/12
Lobby the Sports Minister now !!!
Revert to the old UEFA tournaments, or bring forth the U(9026)EFA Super Cup !!!
posted on 2/2/12
I'd like to see a CL where each country's domestic league and FA cup champions qualified, perhaps opening a slot too for the runners-up in the strongest domestic leagues.
It would really add some spice to domestic cup competitions and would actually resemble something like a Champions League.
The presence of league runners-up would slightly distort it, but would also reduce the chances of it not being won by the best team in Europe in any given season.
posted on 2/2/12
"The presence of league runners-up would slightly distort it, but would also reduce the chances of it not being won by the best team in Europe in any given season."
Actually, the weakness of a domestic league causes this.
In the 80s heyday, you had the Pooool empire, and Forest and Villa.
Without Heysel happening, Everton would have had a couple of attempts too.
posted on 2/2/12
Actually, the weakness of a domestic league causes this.
---
Could you clarify that? I don't understand what you mean.
posted on 2/2/12
A bottom half team in one league would probably be a top 3 team in another country.
posted on 2/2/12
There was a bit more variation in the league champions in the 80s.
That by definition translates into new blood into the Champions Cup.
Another thing I noticed when doing some stattery, is that twas much more variation in the top 4 pre PL, than the "Sky 4" piggie trough. Again, that translated into more English variation in the UEFA Cup.
Page 1 of 2