Sadly, I do agree with quite a lot of this article. Whilst we are near the top of the table, we look the least convincing of all the sides in the mix and IMO if we are in the P/offs, we can forget about going up. Losing to the likes of Stevenage at home is totally unacceptable and does not bode well for the pressure that the playoffs bring.
Megson's record against the top sides in this League is pretty poor and I can quite easily see a team like Stevenage or MKD doing one on us in the knockouts.
Leopards don't change their spots. Megson by trade is an old school manager - its all about the defense and hanging on to what he has got.
This works up to a point and I agree we have pinched a lot of results this term by doing just enough and hanging on. But against good sides that show a willingness to attack, it has proved to be our downfall - we continue to concede freekicks and Pens and lose/draw games late on as we retreat.
We just dont sem to be able to finish sides off, considering the strength and size of our squad.
Jones was probably a panic buy - he is a L1/2 player and never going to replace Marshall but to rely on one player is madness anyway. And relying on JJ is relying on snow at Christmas..so overated and one dimensional and should be long gone. The rest have to stand up and be counted and I just wish Megson could instill some flair and drive into this side instead of just trying to do enough.
If we lose today (and I think we may) Megson will be on very thin ice. There are a few managers around out of work who may be able to get more out of this squad.
I hope I am wrong but I don't feel confident with Megson in charge we can get out of this League - with someone else who is a bit more positive and forward looking, we may just do it.
Whats peoples thoughts on the Dave Jones speculation ?
I've seen Wednesday play united and charlton, supposedly the best two teams in this division and we haven't been outclassed by either. Antonio, had a great game today, so maybe Megson does know what hes's doing
Wrong
Tha wants to get thi sen darn tut Lane if tha cant support the Ginger Mourinho.
In just over 12 months Meggy has cleaned up the mess left behind by Father Ted & built a team capable of challenging for promotion, surely we have learnt over the last 15 years that choppin and changing managers isnt the way forward.
It would be an act of utter madness if MM were to dispense with Megson in the middle of a promotion challenge and replace him with Dave Jones or Paul Ince? Please tell me somebody is having a laugh!
Remember it took Jack Charlton 2 seasons to steer Wednesday out of this Division. Meggy needs time & support.
In GM we trust.
Mr. cheese i doff my cap and fully agree,Gary Megson has provided us with a belief that eventually we will return to the top flight.This team may not be that good yet, but is so much better organised and professional than we ever saw under Irvine,so hopefully Mandaric will allow him the time to build the foundations to take us onwards and upwards. I remember Jack Charlton doing a similar thing for us allowing Wilkinson and Atkinson to bring success in later years,so lets stick with him, he is a good manager his record tell us that.
agree with hastings. paula inception? dont make you feel my love!
Best result , of course Wednesday, worst result , jammy scousers do it again,walk on ..
Yeah, I was pleased to hear Cardiff were one-up with 20 minutes to go, next time I looked Kuyt'd scored in extra time. Ho hum.
Megson in at the mo. Let's reassess things at the end of the season.
I remember Jack Charlton doing a similar thing for us allowing Wilkinson
...................
Comparing 2 leeds legends with megson is a disgrace.
Think the Megson isn't working brigade are wrong, shortsighted and premature in their misgivings. U11819 and Earlsfield are detached from the current reality.
Superwhites dont think you quite got the gist but yeh ok
I still am Shibboleth30 (Milan: Onde está o livro de cheques?) (U11502)
Fair enough. Wouldn't you like to see a settled team? And aren't you concerned about our porous defence?
Appreciate we're still up there but we seem to be hanging on to the coat-tails of others with narrow wins rather than looking like a good side. I know Megson hasn't spent a fortune but it's only the 3rd division..
Yes, I'd like us to win every single game 5-0 but then again I know that won't happen cos I live in the REAL world!
"but it's only the 3rd division.."
I think therein lies the issue!
We're a much better team now than we were a year ago. In fact this is probably a better team than the one that flirted with success under Brian Laws. Would you really want to go back to a midfield of O'Connor, Potter, Teale and Sedgewick? With Beevers, Morrison, Spurr and Otsemobor at the back and Heffernan up front? I look through our team now and see great characters that I feel we can rely on. Megson has brought many of them into the club, has managed to get the best (so far) out of potential sulkers such as JJ and Madine and cast under-performers into the shadows.
Having now seen us boss all the top teams at Hillsborough I'm surprised we dropped points to some of them and amazed that others are so many points above us. Even on this losing streak we've continued to be the dominant side. But we've dropped points due to conceding some unstoppable goals (3 blinding free kicks, a penalty, a worldie volley) and failed to score enough at the other end.
Plan A is to get goals from set-pieces but only Marshall seems to have been able to give us the right delivery.
My criticism of Megson is that Plan B (hit it forward and hope something happens) hasn't been working and we're not flexible enough to have a Plan C that might give a Ryan Lowe (or Clinton Morrison or, previously, Paul Heffernan) a chance to get goals. I'm also not a fan of his 'shut-up shop' mentality as i think it's cost us more points than it has saved nor his idea that the way to retrieve a losing situation is to put 7 players on their 18-yard line while the others lump it towards them. However, he talks a lot of sense and I've agreed with just about all his decisions re his choice of players (who to bring in/get rid of; who to pick/drop; who to take off) so we're definitely moving in the right direction.
It's not pretty but didn't you just love the way we completely stopped United from playing their pretty football in the 2nd half
Pretty much spot on, Rivelin.
Rivelin, I don't know if you were there on sunday but Antonio looks to have the ability to be Marshall MKII.
I hope I haven't just jinxed him!
If that was a sign of things to come from Antonio then we're onto a winner.
Quick, strong, skillful, good delivery (on the run at times) & made good decisions more often than not!
......and a much better long thow than Marshall.
Let's see how things go over the next few games before getting carried away though. Rochdale isn't exactly Hillsborough for starters!
Too right, a convincing win at Rochdale is not a forgone conclusion but would definitely set the right tone.
'"but it's only the 3rd division.."
I think therein lies the issue!'
If you're suggesting I think we have some kind of right to get promotion 'cos we're a 'big' club then I have to say that isn't what I mean at all.
What I am saying is that being entrenched in the play-off places doesn't mean Megson is doing a good job, when you consider that a team like Stevenage can manage the same. We have a bigger budget, better support, are able to attract high-profile loan signings and many of our existing squad have played at a higher level.
I am not expecting us to win every game. What I do expect if for an ex-Premier League manager to be able to identify good players instead of selling them, to be able to organise a better defence than Walsall, Bournemouth, Tranmere or any of the other teams who concede less than us and to have a game-plan beyond relying on set-pieces or some brilliance from the one winger we field, be it Marshall, JJ or Antonio.
Why mention it then?? All it did was suggest exactly what you're claiming it didn't.
Of course being in the PO's means Megson is doing a good job. We don't have a budget in the top 2 of the division so on that basis (if you want to make the argument financial) then he's doing aswell as could be expected.
If you 'expected' automatic promotion then it's not Megson who 'isn't working'......
Yep, Stevenage are having an exceptional season but don't underestimate the amount of influence confidence & momentum can have on a football team. Just cos one team is doing over & above it doesn't mean our season isn't good enough.
If you think his gameplan is 'hope a winger produces some brilliance' then it's probably not worth having a discussion.
He's made mistakes, no doubt, but then who hasn't.
The odd player hasn't quite lived up to it but that is far, far outweighed by those that have & those that haven't are pretty much the ones who've been here a few weeks!
He probably needs to find a Plan B that is less desperate than we've shown when going behind recently despite being on top for large parts of the game.
Occasionally, I'd like to see him be a bit more forward thinking & little more flexible in formation/tactics but all of this is just personal opinion & is basically splitting hairs!
In the grand scheme, he's done a good job & even as someone who wasn't too taken with his appointment last season, the progress has been excellent.
U11819, The reality is we're a league 1 club at this present time; therefore we can only attract players of the calibre of league 1 - these tend to come from a mix of young players with little or no experience of a ' big club' and older players who have experience of playing for a big club at a higher level than league1.
The young players will not always get it right and are likely to have limited abilities in terms of strategic movement, formation, and playing at the top of their game in crunch matches.
Balance this with;
Older players who know what is required, have the experience of strategy, formation and playing under pressure whilst perhaps having lost a yard or two of pace or the ability to go full throttle for 90 minutes.
What do you end up with?
A league 1 club.
What Megson has achieved so far is a good demonstration of the alchemy that is needed to forge a team that can grind out results whilst continuing to develop on an upwards curve.
We are miles away from the Laws/Irvine eras. We have a club that has sorted out its backroom issues, at least for now. Megson is also being a very responsible manager in the way that he utilises his budget - which at the moment reflects our status as a league 1 club.
One day Milan will get the cheque book out - but he is a shrewd operator and wants to see a solid foundation for any future growth of our club.
It may not be pretty, it may not be delivering attractive football week in, week out, but it is working and we are in with a healthy chance of getting promoted to the Championship. Under Laws and Irvine it was a rollercoaster that was unpleasant for most of the ride. Under Megson's tenure, I look forward to Saturdays, and despite our delayed Christmas slump (the recent run of losses!) I think we are exactly where we should be, better than I anticipated at the the start of the season.
One thing Megson does know is how to get honesty and a strong work ethic from his players. I am fully behind him (I wasn't when he was initially appointed, if I'm honest) he is doing the job he is paid for, and doing it well, consistently and with the best interest of the club at heart.
UTO
'The reality is we're a league 1 club at this present time; therefore we can only attract players of the calibre of league 1'
Surely true for every other club in the division? As for budgets, we all know Chalrton signed a fair few players but were we even in for any of them, aside from Danny Green? What about Flynn, Leiscinel or MacDonald at United?
'The odd player hasn't quite lived up to it but that is far, far outweighed by those that have'
At the risk of provoking another hectoring response... names?
Plus noone's addressed the fact that our defence is poor and Megson has let good players leave the club in favour of mediocrity. It took at 5-1 defeat to make him select Reda Johnson. And what about the decision not to allow Beevers to continue on loan at MK Dons and then not even put him on the bench: if he's not good enough for our 16, why not let them have him? Makes no sense. Reynolds did well when he played this season but he goes and we keep Julian Bennett instead.
I could accept the situation if there was some coherent approach to team selection and you could see a long-term plan but there isn't. Maybe the pressure he's under to get us up is making Megson bring in so many loans and make so many changes but it isn't helping. If he thinks someone like Mike Jones is worth signing then give him a run in the team or don't bring him in in the first place.
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Megson Isn't Working
Page 1 of 2
posted on 26/2/12
Sadly, I do agree with quite a lot of this article. Whilst we are near the top of the table, we look the least convincing of all the sides in the mix and IMO if we are in the P/offs, we can forget about going up. Losing to the likes of Stevenage at home is totally unacceptable and does not bode well for the pressure that the playoffs bring.
Megson's record against the top sides in this League is pretty poor and I can quite easily see a team like Stevenage or MKD doing one on us in the knockouts.
Leopards don't change their spots. Megson by trade is an old school manager - its all about the defense and hanging on to what he has got.
This works up to a point and I agree we have pinched a lot of results this term by doing just enough and hanging on. But against good sides that show a willingness to attack, it has proved to be our downfall - we continue to concede freekicks and Pens and lose/draw games late on as we retreat.
We just dont sem to be able to finish sides off, considering the strength and size of our squad.
Jones was probably a panic buy - he is a L1/2 player and never going to replace Marshall but to rely on one player is madness anyway. And relying on JJ is relying on snow at Christmas..so overated and one dimensional and should be long gone. The rest have to stand up and be counted and I just wish Megson could instill some flair and drive into this side instead of just trying to do enough.
If we lose today (and I think we may) Megson will be on very thin ice. There are a few managers around out of work who may be able to get more out of this squad.
I hope I am wrong but I don't feel confident with Megson in charge we can get out of this League - with someone else who is a bit more positive and forward looking, we may just do it.
posted on 26/2/12
Whats peoples thoughts on the Dave Jones speculation ?
posted on 26/2/12
I've seen Wednesday play united and charlton, supposedly the best two teams in this division and we haven't been outclassed by either. Antonio, had a great game today, so maybe Megson does know what hes's doing
posted on 26/2/12
Wrong
Tha wants to get thi sen darn tut Lane if tha cant support the Ginger Mourinho.
In just over 12 months Meggy has cleaned up the mess left behind by Father Ted & built a team capable of challenging for promotion, surely we have learnt over the last 15 years that choppin and changing managers isnt the way forward.
It would be an act of utter madness if MM were to dispense with Megson in the middle of a promotion challenge and replace him with Dave Jones or Paul Ince? Please tell me somebody is having a laugh!
Remember it took Jack Charlton 2 seasons to steer Wednesday out of this Division. Meggy needs time & support.
In GM we trust.
posted on 26/2/12
Mr. cheese i doff my cap and fully agree,Gary Megson has provided us with a belief that eventually we will return to the top flight.This team may not be that good yet, but is so much better organised and professional than we ever saw under Irvine,so hopefully Mandaric will allow him the time to build the foundations to take us onwards and upwards. I remember Jack Charlton doing a similar thing for us allowing Wilkinson and Atkinson to bring success in later years,so lets stick with him, he is a good manager his record tell us that.
posted on 26/2/12
agree with hastings. paula inception? dont make you feel my love!
posted on 26/2/12
Best result , of course Wednesday, worst result , jammy scousers do it again,walk on ..
posted on 26/2/12
Yeah, I was pleased to hear Cardiff were one-up with 20 minutes to go, next time I looked Kuyt'd scored in extra time. Ho hum.
posted on 27/2/12
Megson in at the mo. Let's reassess things at the end of the season.
posted on 27/2/12
I remember Jack Charlton doing a similar thing for us allowing Wilkinson
...................
Comparing 2 leeds legends with megson is a disgrace.
posted on 27/2/12
Think the Megson isn't working brigade are wrong, shortsighted and premature in their misgivings. U11819 and Earlsfield are detached from the current reality.
posted on 27/2/12
Superwhites dont think you quite got the gist but yeh ok
posted on 27/2/12
I still am Shibboleth30 (Milan: Onde está o livro de cheques?) (U11502)
Fair enough. Wouldn't you like to see a settled team? And aren't you concerned about our porous defence?
Appreciate we're still up there but we seem to be hanging on to the coat-tails of others with narrow wins rather than looking like a good side. I know Megson hasn't spent a fortune but it's only the 3rd division..
posted on 27/2/12
Yes, I'd like us to win every single game 5-0 but then again I know that won't happen cos I live in the REAL world!
posted on 27/2/12
"but it's only the 3rd division.."
I think therein lies the issue!
posted on 27/2/12
We're a much better team now than we were a year ago. In fact this is probably a better team than the one that flirted with success under Brian Laws. Would you really want to go back to a midfield of O'Connor, Potter, Teale and Sedgewick? With Beevers, Morrison, Spurr and Otsemobor at the back and Heffernan up front? I look through our team now and see great characters that I feel we can rely on. Megson has brought many of them into the club, has managed to get the best (so far) out of potential sulkers such as JJ and Madine and cast under-performers into the shadows.
Having now seen us boss all the top teams at Hillsborough I'm surprised we dropped points to some of them and amazed that others are so many points above us. Even on this losing streak we've continued to be the dominant side. But we've dropped points due to conceding some unstoppable goals (3 blinding free kicks, a penalty, a worldie volley) and failed to score enough at the other end.
Plan A is to get goals from set-pieces but only Marshall seems to have been able to give us the right delivery.
My criticism of Megson is that Plan B (hit it forward and hope something happens) hasn't been working and we're not flexible enough to have a Plan C that might give a Ryan Lowe (or Clinton Morrison or, previously, Paul Heffernan) a chance to get goals. I'm also not a fan of his 'shut-up shop' mentality as i think it's cost us more points than it has saved nor his idea that the way to retrieve a losing situation is to put 7 players on their 18-yard line while the others lump it towards them. However, he talks a lot of sense and I've agreed with just about all his decisions re his choice of players (who to bring in/get rid of; who to pick/drop; who to take off) so we're definitely moving in the right direction.
It's not pretty but didn't you just love the way we completely stopped United from playing their pretty football in the 2nd half
posted on 28/2/12
Pretty much spot on, Rivelin.
posted on 28/2/12
Rivelin, I don't know if you were there on sunday but Antonio looks to have the ability to be Marshall MKII.
I hope I haven't just jinxed him!
posted on 28/2/12
If that was a sign of things to come from Antonio then we're onto a winner.
Quick, strong, skillful, good delivery (on the run at times) & made good decisions more often than not!
......and a much better long thow than Marshall.
Let's see how things go over the next few games before getting carried away though. Rochdale isn't exactly Hillsborough for starters!
posted on 28/2/12
Too right, a convincing win at Rochdale is not a forgone conclusion but would definitely set the right tone.
posted on 28/2/12
'"but it's only the 3rd division.."
I think therein lies the issue!'
If you're suggesting I think we have some kind of right to get promotion 'cos we're a 'big' club then I have to say that isn't what I mean at all.
What I am saying is that being entrenched in the play-off places doesn't mean Megson is doing a good job, when you consider that a team like Stevenage can manage the same. We have a bigger budget, better support, are able to attract high-profile loan signings and many of our existing squad have played at a higher level.
I am not expecting us to win every game. What I do expect if for an ex-Premier League manager to be able to identify good players instead of selling them, to be able to organise a better defence than Walsall, Bournemouth, Tranmere or any of the other teams who concede less than us and to have a game-plan beyond relying on set-pieces or some brilliance from the one winger we field, be it Marshall, JJ or Antonio.
posted on 28/2/12
Why mention it then?? All it did was suggest exactly what you're claiming it didn't.
Of course being in the PO's means Megson is doing a good job. We don't have a budget in the top 2 of the division so on that basis (if you want to make the argument financial) then he's doing aswell as could be expected.
If you 'expected' automatic promotion then it's not Megson who 'isn't working'......
Yep, Stevenage are having an exceptional season but don't underestimate the amount of influence confidence & momentum can have on a football team. Just cos one team is doing over & above it doesn't mean our season isn't good enough.
If you think his gameplan is 'hope a winger produces some brilliance' then it's probably not worth having a discussion.
He's made mistakes, no doubt, but then who hasn't.
The odd player hasn't quite lived up to it but that is far, far outweighed by those that have & those that haven't are pretty much the ones who've been here a few weeks!
He probably needs to find a Plan B that is less desperate than we've shown when going behind recently despite being on top for large parts of the game.
Occasionally, I'd like to see him be a bit more forward thinking & little more flexible in formation/tactics but all of this is just personal opinion & is basically splitting hairs!
In the grand scheme, he's done a good job & even as someone who wasn't too taken with his appointment last season, the progress has been excellent.
posted on 28/2/12
U11819, The reality is we're a league 1 club at this present time; therefore we can only attract players of the calibre of league 1 - these tend to come from a mix of young players with little or no experience of a ' big club' and older players who have experience of playing for a big club at a higher level than league1.
The young players will not always get it right and are likely to have limited abilities in terms of strategic movement, formation, and playing at the top of their game in crunch matches.
Balance this with;
Older players who know what is required, have the experience of strategy, formation and playing under pressure whilst perhaps having lost a yard or two of pace or the ability to go full throttle for 90 minutes.
What do you end up with?
A league 1 club.
What Megson has achieved so far is a good demonstration of the alchemy that is needed to forge a team that can grind out results whilst continuing to develop on an upwards curve.
We are miles away from the Laws/Irvine eras. We have a club that has sorted out its backroom issues, at least for now. Megson is also being a very responsible manager in the way that he utilises his budget - which at the moment reflects our status as a league 1 club.
One day Milan will get the cheque book out - but he is a shrewd operator and wants to see a solid foundation for any future growth of our club.
It may not be pretty, it may not be delivering attractive football week in, week out, but it is working and we are in with a healthy chance of getting promoted to the Championship. Under Laws and Irvine it was a rollercoaster that was unpleasant for most of the ride. Under Megson's tenure, I look forward to Saturdays, and despite our delayed Christmas slump (the recent run of losses!) I think we are exactly where we should be, better than I anticipated at the the start of the season.
One thing Megson does know is how to get honesty and a strong work ethic from his players. I am fully behind him (I wasn't when he was initially appointed, if I'm honest) he is doing the job he is paid for, and doing it well, consistently and with the best interest of the club at heart.
UTO
posted on 28/2/12
Good post, Shib!
posted on 29/2/12
'The reality is we're a league 1 club at this present time; therefore we can only attract players of the calibre of league 1'
Surely true for every other club in the division? As for budgets, we all know Chalrton signed a fair few players but were we even in for any of them, aside from Danny Green? What about Flynn, Leiscinel or MacDonald at United?
'The odd player hasn't quite lived up to it but that is far, far outweighed by those that have'
At the risk of provoking another hectoring response... names?
Plus noone's addressed the fact that our defence is poor and Megson has let good players leave the club in favour of mediocrity. It took at 5-1 defeat to make him select Reda Johnson. And what about the decision not to allow Beevers to continue on loan at MK Dons and then not even put him on the bench: if he's not good enough for our 16, why not let them have him? Makes no sense. Reynolds did well when he played this season but he goes and we keep Julian Bennett instead.
I could accept the situation if there was some coherent approach to team selection and you could see a long-term plan but there isn't. Maybe the pressure he's under to get us up is making Megson bring in so many loans and make so many changes but it isn't helping. If he thinks someone like Mike Jones is worth signing then give him a run in the team or don't bring him in in the first place.
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